Ordering Rivian Dual-Motor vs Quad-Motor! Reservation Holders Must Make A Choice

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Ordering Rivian Dual-Motor vs Quad-Motor! Reservation Holders Must Make A Choice | Episode 130

Рет қаралды 21,999

Күн бұрын

Kyle and Francie sit down with Skyler Williams from ‪@RivianStories‬ to talk about the choice facing many Rivian reservation holders: To Quad or Not to Quad. They discuss the value propositions of each option, what folks should consider when making their choice, and share their own opinions on which choice is better overall.
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@nc3826 10 ай бұрын

There are clearly numerous trade-offs between both setups..... But the geeky side of me gives it to the dual motor set up, because of It's highly efficient oil immersion cooling methodology, that it utilizes... thank you for the Interesting diversion....

@ilawn 8 ай бұрын

how hot is too hot? I have the quad and the motor temps easily go to 250F deg+ with just everyday driving. It makes me wonder what affect that has on motor longevity

@Pekirt79 10 ай бұрын

Great discussion! We have a quad motor R1T and I would prefer the dual motor with a bump in range and efficiency over the off-road capability of the quad.

@coralstore4250 10 ай бұрын

If range is an issue then just leave your quad motor R1T in conserve mode. Your range will basically be the same as the dual motor. We had an R1T for a year and put 15k miles on it. Ninety percent of our driving was in conserve mode and the only issue was the front tires wore out considerably faster than the rear.

@dwayned.5238 10 ай бұрын

So if you were to say, spend your winters driving up and down roads like I-70 from the Colorado Front Range to the Mountains, and usually do so at 75-80mph once the traffic is flowing, you’d prefer the dual over quad?

@e2dub 2 ай бұрын

Yes the Gen 1 Quad Motor can achieve similar efficiency as the Gen 1 Dual Motor when in conserve mode BUT there are significant disadvantages this. When driving a Gen 1 Quad in conserved mode and you need to rapidly accelerate, for example when passing another vehicle, your acceleration is significantly slower because you are only using the two front motors, so 1/2 the power (or maybe less since the rear motors might be more powerful). When in conserve mode the Gen 1 Quad does not automatically switch on the rear drive units like the Dual Motor variant can. This makes conserve mode kind of sucky in my opinion. I’ve also had issues on ice w a Gen 1 QM in conserve mode where I went to accelerate after coming to a stop and the front wheels struggled and spun out slightly because in this mode it’s a 2 wheel drive vehicle until the driver manually switches out of conserve. Most people advise not driving a QM in stop and go traffic w conserve mode on, but I had just exited a freeway and stopped. I forgot to switch out of conserve. I went to make a left turn with traffic coming from my right so needed to accelerate and it spun out on a small patch of ice near a shaded underpass. Was actually quite sketchy. This could have easily resulted in a collision. In the highway driving this is doable but not convenient at all. It requires you to turn off cruise control to do so which adds to the work load since most people are using cc on the highway. I want don’t want to have to remember to switch off cc then to have to toggle into a different drive mode every time I need to rapid acceleration. For anyone reading this after June of 2024 the Gen 2 Tri Motor, which was just released, apparently it DOES automatically engage the rear when the driver rapidly accelerates in conserve mode. I don’t know if the Gen 2 Quads will do this also but I would be surprised if they didn’t since the Tri and Quad are both using dual rear drive units. For Gen 1 vehicles unless you absolutely need the max off road performance I would recommend the Dual Motor over Quad for the vast majority of drivers. For Gen 2 vehicles it seems like Rivisn has addressed the above issues I described with conserve mode but I highly recommend waiting for reviews from Out of Spec to confirm this actually works as described in testing before making a purchase decision. EDIT: Just found this from Rivian: “Our newest drive unit houses two motors, used in the rear of the Tri-Motor and in both the front and rear of the Quad-Motor. With Quad, the two-motor front drive unit is smaller, optimized for efficiency at cruising speeds. The rear application is much larger, geared to maximize torque to the tires’ traction limit. In both Tri and Quad variants, while operating in Conserve mode, an automatic rear disconnect ensures AWD performance is always available, but intuitively turns off when driving demand doesn't require it, helping you maximize range when you need it, and performance when you want it.” stories.rivian.com/meet-the-new-r1

@tomscala7672 10 ай бұрын

We made a choice, Performance Dual-Motor will be picked up October 24 in Orlando, now I'll watch the podcast.

@RelaxingRivian 10 ай бұрын

We need Rivian Quad with Rivian motors.. until then.. I would take the dual motor. We have the Quad and really wish for lower weight, LFP batteries and RIvian Units as the next update.

@ilawn 8 ай бұрын

if the problem is situations where 1 motor needs to turn but it's still and can't start easily, then Rivian should have a "Tractor" mode where it just keeps all motors spinning or powered equally

@bob15479 7 ай бұрын

That would Shred tires

@Willibopper 10 ай бұрын

I can't wait to see the direct Colorado offroad comparisons between the Dual and the Quad. I'm not trying to keep up with Jeeps on 40s, but keeping up with stock Jeeps on CO trails with the dual motor would be cool.

@justo711 3 ай бұрын

Great info, thanks for sharing! Skyler seems pretty biased about the quad motor, which makes sense since that’s all he’s driven. Lots of emphasis on torque vectoring that doesn’t seem to make a huge difference. Sounds like he mostly cares about performance for 0-60 in a straight line

@ecaseyburn 10 ай бұрын

I’ve been waiting for 4 years for the long range quad motor. I will only go with a 400 mile range version. Let time at the pump and more time on the road. Less fill ups mean less stress on the weak infrastructure. I will keep waiting till she comes.

@craigsteensma807 9 ай бұрын

Thank you guys - This gives me clarity and now I'm pumped to confirm my quad motor large pack for delivery next month! Can't wait

@OutofSpecPodcast 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for tuning in - glad that the information was useful to you! That's the goal here.

@richardalexander5758 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing the pros and cons of the different configurations.

@OutofSpecPodcast 8 ай бұрын

Glad you found this info useful! Thanks for tuning in.

@lancekostecka368 10 ай бұрын

For me I still want to wait another year or two to see how Rivian is doing. But if I was to buy one today it would be the R1T max pack Dual motor with its upgrade. For me I get more then enough power with that dual and the max pack would give me more comfort on road trips.

@Willibopper 10 ай бұрын

I also think the reason we haven't seen a locker on the quad is the axles and joints. the axles have a FOS for one motor, and they'd have to be beefed up quite a bit to handle torque from both motors along with possible binding. Between the weight of the truck, and torque it's putting out, I imagine it'd break some axles with a locker.

@Dashock21 10 ай бұрын

I love all the technical spec and real world use case discussions. Subscripted to RivianStories and OutOfSpec Pods; Tesla owner but would switch to Rivian R1T, currently use my Tesla MYLR 2022 for drive on surf beach fishing and upgrade to R1T Quad is ideal but might consider R1T dual.

@OutofSpecPodcast 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for subscribing! And we hope we can cover topics that help you make the best decision for you

@theman5893 8 ай бұрын

i think dual motor is more reliable but i hate it doesnt have as much options as the quad motor or features

@jayyocis8643 9 ай бұрын

The dual motor system is an all in-house production. The quad trans and motors are from other manufacturers.

@ilawn 8 ай бұрын

podcast request: Could you increase the audio volume? KZfaq ads are a full notch louder than the podcast talking volume

@e2dub 2 ай бұрын

Yes the Gen 1 Quad Motor can achieve similar efficiency as the Gen 1 Dual Motor when in conserve mode BUT there are significant disadvantages this. TLDR: Gen 1 DM has a significant range advantage compared to Gen 1 QM in every mode except Conserve mode. But QM traction and acceleration is significantly hampered in conserve mode so I rarely use it after several close calls where I forgot that conserve was still on and I was needing to rapidly accelerate. Gen 1 QM conserve has relatively slow acceleration and less traction- 2 wheel drive. For Gen 2 Tri and Quad Rivian has apparently fixed this and Tri and Quad automatically engage the rear motors if the driver calls for max power. I own a Quad and rarely use conserve anymore after several close calls where I expected to have normal 3.2 second zero to 60 acceleration but forgot I still had conserve on which is also just 2WD. Quad Gen 1 is only in two wheel drive and with only about half the power when in conserve mode and you need to rapidly accelerate, for example when passing another vehicle, your acceleration is significantly slower because you are only using the two front motors, so 1/2 the power (or maybe less since the rear motors might be more powerful). When in conserve mode the Gen 1 Quad does not automatically switch on the rear drive units like the Dual Motor variant can. This makes Conserve mode kind of sucky and borderline dangerous in my opinion. I’ve also had issues on ice w a Gen 1 QM in conserve mode where I went to accelerate after coming to a stop and the front wheels struggled and spun out slightly because in this mode it’s a 2 wheel drive vehicle until the driver manually switches out of conserve. Most people advise not driving a QM in stop and go traffic w conserve mode on, but I had just exited a freeway and stopped. I forgot to switch out of conserve. I went to make a left turn with traffic coming from my right so needed to accelerate and it spun out on a small patch of ice near a shaded underpass. Was actually quite sketchy. This could have easily resulted in a collision. In highway driving this is doable but not convenient at all. It requires you to turn off cruise control to do so which adds to the work load since most people are using CC on the highway. I don’t want to have to remember to switch off cc then to have to toggle into a different drive mode every time I need to rapid acceleration. And many times I may forget to and get myself into trouble thinking I have rapid acceleration and AWD when I have relatively slower acceleration and 2WD. For anyone reading this after June of 2024 the Gen 2 Tri Motor, which was just released, apparently they now DO automatically engage full power and AWD when the driver rapidly accelerates w conserve mode still engaged. I For Gen 2 vehicles it seems like Rivisn has addressed the above issues I described with conserve mode but I highly recommend waiting for reviews from Out of Spec to confirm this actually works as described in testing before making a purchase decision. I recommend G1 DM over G1 QM for the vast majority of people. For G2 the problem is solved so go with whatever floats your boat. stories.rivian.com/meet-the-new-r1

@e2dub 2 ай бұрын

0-60 Tests Gen 1 Quad Conserve vs All Purpose vs Sport kzfaq.info/get/bejne/layhf8Zp36fdnYU.htmlsi=4yDeXz4LU6_6xNQg

@sleepy670 3 ай бұрын

Quad all the way.

@samkeino6810 8 ай бұрын

From what I heard from Rivian, early reservations are not locked into any sort of preferential pricing. Additionally, the Quad motor is made by Bosch and in my view, it might even be discontinued since this is less profitable than the in-house Dual motor.

@MrFester 9 ай бұрын

Just picked up the dual motor R1S this weekend. Very nice ride.

@OutofSpecPodcast 9 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching. Congrats on your R1S! Let us know how you like it.

@echoplexhandlesaredumb 10 ай бұрын

Reservation holder here, it's weird. The R1S is $500 less for the dual motor performance with no option for the normal dual motor but on the R1T the standard dual motor is the no cost option, $1500 for the quad and $2500 for the dual motor performance.

@rlaracue 6 ай бұрын

What do you all think of the Rivian earnings news? Do you think Apple, VW, Geely or Toyota would do an investment with a buyout option to keep them going? I am on the fence between a CyberTruck or an R1T Quad and this earnings news makes we think I should wait on Rivian.

@LarsDennert 10 ай бұрын

Ok thanks. I was agonizing over Dual regular or Dual performance and being able to lock it in all wheel drive as an option might be good if FWD is annoying but All terrain should do that also. Speed isn't going to matter in an SUV top speed 112mph. Pretty much going to lose to any passenger car in anything but a stoplight race. Locking diff is possible but looks to be complex. I'll be looking at that though not with ARB as I can't see how to develop one and make the air line work. The carrier is inside that planetary gear set.

@Pickupman2007 10 ай бұрын

I dislike auto AWD and hate FWD. So I would never buy the dual. Rivian really should had made the rear axle primary and disconnect the front but I still want to decide when and if that happens. So glad I got a quad now.

@williamelkington5430 10 ай бұрын

Being a preorder holder. I'll still stick with the quad-motor. Added benefit of the quad-motor that wasn't discussed is emergency handling (because of the maximal torque vectoring). (I think it is $500 less for the dual-motor, if you're a preorder holder. But I'm not sure.)

@KyleConner 10 ай бұрын

I don’t think there would be a hugely measurable difference in an emergency situation. The torque vectoring isn’t amazingly strong

@williamelkington5430 10 ай бұрын

@@KyleConner I’d then look forward to a significant improvement in it over time.

@marcguindon8499 9 ай бұрын

But in a snow storm?

@rishikamra 10 ай бұрын

Quad vs Dual motor with Max pack there is a 80 mile range bump. Not sure why not to consider even with pre price hike pricing.

@rustinroy9911 8 ай бұрын

Did they have any updates when they are producing the quad in house motors?

@dhp9691 3 ай бұрын

Quad motor has best acceleration correct? So for someone who never goes off-roading and is on the lamb from the cops (terrible example I know), which truck should he choose as his freeway getaway truck - quad or dual???

@100Milllion 7 ай бұрын

I feel that the 7000.00 max pack more at the old school pricing.... I feel it is too much add on with dual motor

@nathanmrudd 10 ай бұрын

I’m not sure where the $500 difference is coming from, but I do recall two tiers of locked in pricing. I see $1500 more for quad over dual and $2500 more for dual performance over dual (so $1000 MORE for dual performance over quad). Was waiting for the max pack, reconsidering while I see if the power tonneau comes back prior. Either quad large or dual performance max pack for me, but the latter is $8000 more ($1000 for performance + $7000 for max pack).

@nathanmrudd 10 ай бұрын

Also, decision is not as easy as you say to give up 50 miles of range. Try mapping what should be a quick drive from St. Paul, MN to Bemidji, MN and figure out where to charge if you can’t make the whole 240 mi trip in the winter in below 0°F temperatures. If you decide at the start to add 30mn to the drive they’ll be ONE CCS above 70kW on the route and NONE if you try and save the 30mn. Hence max pack may be worth the $7k more. Yes, Superchargers next year, but until then it doesn’t make sense to jump on a quad motor.

@Rotoman3795 10 ай бұрын

How many of those trip have to be made before the $7000 difference is made up?

@nathanmrudd 10 ай бұрын

@@Rotoman3795 My problem is not how many trips can be made, but IF the trip can be made without spending way to much time at a 70kW (or less). Need to consider trips with range loss in sub-zero weather. Nearest >50kW CCS charger is about 150 miles from the destination and out of the way, so some charge is needed when we arrive until we plug in for the night. The Rivian will make our household EV-only, so it needs to be able to handle the few trips a year our Other EV doesn’t. If we go quad we’ll probably need to keep an ICE until the charging network isn’t spaced out 300-400 miles (or more) and not on the roads I travel. Tesla has one charger on a highway that will serve that need when it becomes available to Rivian. Also, what if the ONLY CCS charger within 300 miles goes down? I guess a 50kW in a pinch, but I’m also able to amend my tax return and get the $7500 tax credit no matter if over 80k.

@CactusHugrAz 10 ай бұрын

I'm with you entirely on max pack and power tonneau. Frustrating we've been left out assuming you're a preorder holder too. Wishing for max LiFePo4 battery, 800v, quad enduro, power tonneau- but that's just not a reality at preorder prices. They've already made it clear they won't honor preorder pricing for max pack quads. So... what to do other than flip a quad motor and wait a few more years until hydrogen fuel cells are an accessory?

@bradbeckett3800 10 ай бұрын

I wonder if they are only a building the quad motor with the 20 all terrain to bump up the price a little more. I’m in the r1 shop now and just have the R1s with 21s and basic everything. Nothing seems to March. Side note: lost my job earlier and making much less now so unsure I’ll move forward but really trying to find a way to make it work. Figured if I can’t afford it then I’ll have the value to trade it in for something more economical.

@davidkliu9220 7 ай бұрын

Will quad regen and gain more electricity since it uses 4 motor to regen vs 2? I think I notice more regen on having all purpose mode vs conserve mode. Also, I think quad pre condition battery faster than dual since it’ll have more motors to heat up. Just my guess here

@bob15479 7 ай бұрын

I think quad has greater max regen but that’s really not gonna matter. Regen contributes little to overall range.

@dwayned.5238 10 ай бұрын

Question. Imagine your city driving is minimal. But come ski season you’re a weekend warrior. You live on the Front Range but your preferred resort is Snowmass. There are kiddos in the car. Little ones who are barely out of diapers with the patience you can only imagine doesn’t exist. Is that quad motor range gonna allow me to make it up there at an average speed of 70mph on the 20” wheels with some aftermarket winter road tyres? Or will Dual Motor be the way to go because of the ability to sustain speed + the efficiency bump? I want a fun drive, but at the end of the day I want the least stressful experience.

@dwayned.5238 8 ай бұрын

Can I get an opinion here? Because last I checked OoS was based in CO and this is a pretty CO scenario.

@Moonjock 10 ай бұрын

Hope mine gets the new motors as quad. 😁

@ahbushnell1 10 ай бұрын

dual has a bigger range. I'm picking up my dual motor on the 30th. I put down my deposit on the 14th.

@dtiff 10 ай бұрын

Awesome podcast. My question is why can't Rivian just do a software based locker on existing quad motors? Can't the computer just tell each motor to spin the same speed regardless? If so, you could just make a virtual rear, front and even center differential system.

@petehelme7714 8 ай бұрын

interestingly, the new Kia EV9 in the AWD models have a "4WD Lock" switch. Though not sure if they have actual lockers of some type on the motors, of if it's simulated through software.

@GregMcNamer 7 ай бұрын

The problem is the "stall torque" they talked about. When the wheel is bound up, it can't generate enough "stall torque" to begin spinning in some situations. Otherwise, the software is trying to keep all 4 wheels spinning approximately the same speed. Imagine you can curl 50lbs per arm so someone puts 5lbs in one hand and 80lbs in the other. You can't just curl them "at the same speed" unless you connect a bar between the weights (locker).

@bob15479 7 ай бұрын

In short, no. It’s not as simple as you think.

@jjmarogil 10 ай бұрын

Can anyone tell me is there a hardware difference between dual motor and dual motor performance?

@carperdiem8754 10 ай бұрын

I wonder if there will be any thermal benefit to dual motor. Maybe some of the limitations of the quad will be reduced in dual? I have no idea what do yall think?

@yayinternets 10 ай бұрын

Kyle talks about it about 20 minutes in.

@carperdiem8754 10 ай бұрын

@@yayinternets thanks. Only made it 10 min in so far

@cruiser97eric1 10 ай бұрын

Will the dual motor require more maintenance because of differential oil and oil seals that need to be changed periodically, and because the brake pads wear out faster due to being used for traction control?

@skylerwilliams 10 ай бұрын

Definitely on the brakes, assuming it uses traction control regularly. I haven't seen service interval details on the diff, but those are normally pretty high, so I wouldn't be too concerned.

@LarsDennert 10 ай бұрын

@@skylerwilliams 100K miles and the quads have gear oil as well as they all have a 10:1 ratio.

@im4udevco 8 ай бұрын

We had reservation for the quad and wanted the dual instead. Rivian told me that we’d have to move to current pricing for the dual which costs more than the quad as we were early reservation holders. We ended up taking delivery of the quad and we love it. Yes, it’s an overkill but we love it.

@JosephHawkins 10 ай бұрын

Is one better for snow and ice on paved roads?

@nc3826 10 ай бұрын

You should check out Kyle's post on the Enduro Dual-Motor.... he discusses the comparison between both of them.... . Including in a snow ice situation...

@digressr 8 ай бұрын

its not about the resale, its about the max pack and miles vs the quad. dual performance and max it beats the quad all day unless you live on a ranch. I dont care about .5 seconds to 60.

@DblOSmith 10 ай бұрын

Something about Rivian trucks... They're not for me. I don't like the style, and I think chasing lateral g's in a truck is silly. I'm not a Ford guy, but that F150 Lightning is a sweet truck for my money.

@guccisasha 10 ай бұрын

I very recently got the lightning lariat, large pack. love it, drives like silk.

@rfwilkinson1248 10 ай бұрын

Kyle and Skyler are windbags! I want to hear more from Franci

@simeonellinger2064 8 ай бұрын

I could probably count the words she got in on my fingers

@JosephHawkins 10 ай бұрын

If price no issue - Max pack is what i want - reportedly will not be available in the quad motor

@OutofSpecPodcast 10 ай бұрын

We posted a podcast discussing the Max Pack as well, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jrSIfrpm1b6Vdqs.html

@doubleclutchonline5811 10 ай бұрын

At the end of the day, unless you need the extra bit of range, I don't see any benefit to getting the dual motor other than price. I had to make that choice two weeks ago when I took delivery of my R1S. The durability of the quad setup appears to be extremely solid so far, while the dual motor is brand new and tbd. While still an amazingly competent vehicle, the dual motor R1 is an economy option of a pricy vehicle. I do believe that they need to thoroughly master the dual motor setup in preparation for the mass market R2 platform.

@bob15479 7 ай бұрын

The new quad motor MUST include true lockers.

@davidhunternyc1 5 ай бұрын

I would like to know what Sandy Munro thinks too.

@user-wf6cn6zv1j 8 ай бұрын

But max pack for a premium of $16k is absolute bullshit robbery. Its not a large battery as rivian lied about but a newer battery with slightly higher capacity. Disgusting