Crim: gets yelled at for having a changeling at the head of his dragon deck Tomer: has a dragon At the head of his changeling deck

I wish the editor would show a flash of whatever card they're bringing up as alternatives. Here I was with moxfield in another tab trying to figure out what name Tomer said

I loved Phil's somewhat sarcastic response to Crim about getting rainbow mana. "Sure, yeah, that's the problem in 5 color, getting 5 colors"

If being boring is a criteria for this list, chulane takes the cake.

Gang: But Selesnya gives humans access to green. Crim: but Mardu has black. Gang: But Selesnya gives humans access to green. Crim: but Mardu has black.

(Rephrased) "I just want to sit on you. I don't need to know your name." is gonna be my new thirst opener.

I don't think Crim realized that "The Ur-Dragon" and "Scion of the Ur-Dragon" are different cards

I think Wort the Raidmother is the most fun Goblin Commander. Make goblin tokens, feed to big x spells. Make biiiiig boom. Very Gobbo.

Clearly we need a “who is the best 5c Dragon Tribal commander” commander clash episode

As someone who has built Aesi and Kyler, you are totally right. Aesi makes everyone groan as you draw 6 cards per turn and play big creatures only to get murdered by the table. Kyler is a removal magnet or a mathematical nightmare, take your pick of misery.

I think a big thing with Kaalia is that those colors were very under represented for a long time.

Built my GF an aesi deck as a big sea creature tribal deck when she got promoted at her work in a fisheries department. Flavor win hahah

I like Atraxa because you can proliferate other types of counters that are otherwise not interacted with. Charge counters, shield counters and level counters to name a few

human tribal commander clash would be actual fun to see,. there are so many variations now and u also forgot the best human in selesnya, toski

We just need more options in 4 color commanders. So wizards need to make more.

Phil's goblin dig makes so much sense. Krenko = consistency. Muxus = chaos. Now between chaos and consistency which do you think fits the goblin mantra more?

I'm really looking forward to the proposed Human Tribal bowl

@1:01:10 in addition to the "main things in green" Crim is mentioning, Champion of Lambholdt is a HOUSE in most +1/+1 counter decks that love going wide. She is in my Hamza build. White has a good amount of protection and Green gives the card draw and overrun type of effects, (while I think the best overrun spell is in white, Akroma's Will).

I love how this group can say "I love telling people they are wrong", but it's totally fine. Everyone here is just having fun, and even if they tell you you're wrong, it isn't a big deal. If anything, everyone here would love to see you play "wrong" fun cards. : )

Before the Ur dragon, I played with scion. The deck is more combo/voltron than go wide with fatties. Scion is also very consistent so each game you feel like you have the same lines of play. Scion also will get you targeted by the pod because with no interaction it can kill as soon as you untap with it.

Tomer, Scion doesn't quite work that way. Once the ability resolves, it loses the ability. This means that you can't turn it into one dragon to kill player A, and then turn it into a second dragon to kill player B. At most you can put multiple instances of the ability on the stack to rapidly turn Scion into different dragons, but all of the abilities have to go onto the stack at the same time. This is why Moltensteel & Skithiryx works (because you can put moltensteel's firebreathing on the stack before Scion becomes Skithiryx), but Old Gnawbone & charger wouldn't (because once Scion becomes charger, it's no longer old gnawbone, and vice versa). Scion can kill one player at a time and is very good at it, but it's not as good as I think you think it is.

I'm glad Tomer pointed out how weird Omnath looks on his promo. I'm not the only one.

Morophon Wizard Tribal continues to be underrated. So many wizards with 3-5 colors in the cmc, really make good use of that cost reduction Atraxa saproling tribal theoretically goes hard with the fungus counter proliferation

Morophon can’t be overrated because it’s like the most obvious punchline in Magic. Up there with “dredges got a new toy” and all the Goldfish type memes of “this is good in soul sisters/Is panharmonicon for X”.

Kyler is fun and solid but also requires some skill. He has to stick on the field but once he does you can win. Attacking with 20 dorks that are all 20/20s is great. You don't go aristocrats because you care about the humans. Kyler is the one who unifies and inspires the humans in a world where everything preys upon them. You are facing down the vampire lords, hordes of zombies, and werewolves are your gates. You need to stand together and Kyler is there for it.

I wonder if Morophon sees play because he is less expensive than cards like the Ur Dragon. If I hadn't bought the dragon commander deck when it came out, I would find The Ur Dragon's current price to be prohibitive and I wouldn't play him for that reason

"You've got tons of 5-colour dragon commanders. You've got the Ur-Dragon...Scion of the Ur-Dragon..." Tiamat: Am I a joke to you?

Everything Phil said about Muxxus is sooooo correct. I run grenzo dungeon warden as my goblin commander and it's so much fun. Krenko should just be in the 99

If you do a human tribal week you should do a video where you do a snake draft humans from all of MtG history to join your team (deck list) Once a human is picked nobody else can put it in their deck.

Banger of an ep. I love hearing people campaign for more interesting games of magic, and the crew has a lot of good suggestions here.

I've played a LOT of dragons. A LOT. Scion is the dragon deck for winning, but it's super boring because you tutor the same 5 dragons every game. Tiamat is similar with the same-y ness. Ur-Dragon and Morophon are both loads of fun because every game is different (if you don't run a bunch of tutors), where you're just getting to play big dumb dragons. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but it's like singleton mid-range dragons. The archtype has gotten too strong lately and I've switched to Ur-dragon+Jegantha because it does require a more interesting build and you have to skip things like the Ancient cycle and Old Gnawbones.

Scion of ur dragon was my first dragon commander (then ur, then ramos right now) but scion of ur dragon is REALLY BORING because it is so consistent. If you dont block, my first transformation is going to be og nicol bolas, and opponent discard their hand is over for that player. Having tutor ability in your commander is really boring. Ur-Dragon is actually MORE fun than scion because there's more variety with less consistency.

Kess is about how milling is card draw. She also nearly doubles the value of rituals. Her niche is double dark ritual or cyc rift into another cyc rift. Her goal is usually combo, but she also has 2 boardwipes per boardwipe, 2 draws per draw etc. She double downs on value spells that don't exile. Aka a blue spell slinger that doesn't run every extra turn spell. Only some :)

Big ups to Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician for a goblin commander. He has a lot of really interesting angles to play from. Cards like Nemesis Mask to make one goblin blow up and deal 4 to a bunch of different creatures, cards like Repercussion that turns damage to creatures into damage to players, Toralf for turning excess noncombat damage into additional burn, effects that trigger when you sacrifice lands or that matter if you have fewer lands than your opponents... It's all a really unique angle for goblins to attack from.

I play Kyler because I always wanted all innistrad tribe decks and I can indeed tell you it's actually fun. He is almost always left unchecked and when you untap you can go lethal by casting a couple of cheap humans

I wish we had more proliferate commander options

I’m excited for these matchups with the humans and dragon decks

A few years back I got a hankering to build 5 color devoid eldrazi using morophon. I looked it up, and sure enough Tomer had beaten me to the punch. I picked up that deck, added a few little tweaks of my own, and it's still a part of my ever growing collection.

"Atraxa's body is really good." - Seth. ;D

These guys really need to play either with or against a Kyler deck.

Oh, I forgot this comes out on Tuesday! My day has something interesting in it now!!

When I started playing my commander, I got the Aesi Precon and replaced them with Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty and turned the deck into Simic 6 drop cascade and had a lot of fun with it! Turning sea monsters into more sea monsters was super fun.

Where is my Card Draw Tier List part 2??!!! 🤣

I love my krenko, tin street deck. It's goblin tribal and voltron at the same time, and it also bounces back from board wipes pretty well.

Krenko isn't overrated, it's power.

human tribal commander clash sounds really interesting. (coming from someone with a Kyler deck)

I totally get what Krim’s saying about Kyler. That being said though, Kyler can be very strong and hard to deal with once he gets a few counters on him, which is insanely easy to do quickly in selesnya, and white has so many options to use to keep him safe so you can continuously beat face with him. I think he’s an excellent humans commander and definitely understand the hype, personally. He may be a bit more hyped than he should be, but he’s a ton of fun.

I play Atraxa for a charge counter deck

I agree with Phil on Krenko, it seems like a color shift from Marrow Gnawer. I like the idea of the Shattergang Brothers as a different way to play Goblins.

In defense of Atraxa as an infect commander, that slow ticking clock is kinda the appeal of her. You could also argue it makes sense flavour wise because then you're not killing your opponents but converting them. Infect decks like Saskia rely on killing someone in one shot (or 2). My very first commander deck I wanted to build an infect style deck, but one that wasn't built around beating people with 1 attack. Was having a hard time finding a proper commander until Atraxa came out. I understand that now there are other commanders that could replace her (and that she see's a ton of play) but she's just cool and kinda nostalgic for me.

I use Morophon for Elder Tribal 😂😂 It's actually a creature type, since "Elder Dragons" are as much "Elder" as they are "Dragon" in the MTG rules.

I built kyler as a halfway point for building 4c humans. It's just kind of a really solid deck right now and I built it out of cards I had sitting in boxes plus the precon.

With the discussion about how to build human tribal, I realized that (a) I want a commander clash where everyone is playing their own vein of human tribal (I saw that's happening next week, awesome!) (b) I want an episode where you all build a deck together. That would be fun

I once won a game with Atraxa specifically because she has vigilance and flying. I had a lock on my opponents: Static Orb + Tanglewire while I also had out a Wilderness Reclamation. 😂 Of note, I have since taken apart that deck, but I am very proud to say that one opponent of mine who ran Atraxa immediately went out to find a Tanglewire as soon as our game was over.

I definitely wanna see the humans tribal commander clash

I can understand disliking Krenko as a combo commander, but I think what makes it cool is that it can be a combo deck while ALSO being a crazy aggro tribal deck. Or it can JUST be a crazy aggro tribal deck. My sister has a Krenko deck (that I built and have maintained for her), and while every once in a while she starts with a Goblin Recruiter "win on T3" hand, plenty of the time she doesn't, and builds an army of hundreds of flying indestructible 200/200 goblins. Despite her deck being very strong, it's not super consistent or oppressive, as it doesn't have combo-ing as a *goal*.

Yes please to the human and dragon tribal weeks, it would be neat to see several different takes on the same tribe battle it out.

Im so happy to hear Seth mention Carth! I thought I may be the only one who loves him!

Did Crim call Purpheros a Brazilian commander? Never herd that term applied to magic, what's that mean?

I feel like you guys got me on Kess being generic but you guys are sleeping on Kyler, there are a ton of ways to instant speed make tokens before you untap and just have an insane board, and then you don’t need to take up slots with overruns

@crim btw you know you can play also dragontribal without being 5 colors? Cause the cool one for me are less then 4 colors ;)

I told myself that I would never need to make an Atraxa deck. But I became a fan when I made the AtraxSaga deck. It makes perfect sense to have her as the Saga leader.

This one is sure to rustle some feathers 🤭

Would you say Atraxa is the best Infect commander?

I love the idea about the Among Us Dragons episode

I have a $50 Krenko deck for exactly the reason Toner outlined. I like to have some decks to hand to new players around and Krenkers is very good at teaching.

I have a Kess deck, made it when the wizards deck came out, and can confirm Kess doesn’t lend herself to any one theme, but also I kinda like that I can just play my favorite cards in grixis with her. I don’t have to worry about if they meet a restriction. But yeah, I understand your point.

Knowing crim also has a trynn and silvar deck validates me more than I expected one of my all time favorite decks

I have Morophon at the head of my Sliver deck. Cost reduc is insane, ramping into any color mana to cast him is great. All the other slivers are either weaker, or repetitive. I get to play all those slivers for free, and I don't have the same play pattern every game. Everyone I've played it against has been impressed by it, it's not cEDH, but it's tuned with the best slivers and lots of support. As far as Kaalia, she's my winningest deck... If I want a win for the night, I play Kaalia. You have Avacyn, Liesa, Sephara, Serra's Emissary, Aegis Angel, and Breathkeeper Seraph. Bastion Protector, Guardian of Faith, Mother/Giver of Runes, Greaves/Boots, Robe of Stars, Teferi's Protection, Flawless Maneuver, Deflecting Swat, Kaya, Dihada, and the new Vexilus Praetor... Many others. They also keep everything else safe. Multiple demons tutor, and there's ways to keep your mana base reasonable and cheat these out without Kaalia.

Would love to see Torens on an upcoming commander clash. That's my favorite non black deck!

I agree with Tomer on Scion of the Ur-Dragon. At it's base it has combo lines that it can go with. The most basic is the knockout combo of Skithiryx - Molten Steel for a poison kill. You can also set up a Niv - Mizzet Combo using Keen Sense or Curiosity and turning Scion into one of the card draw combo Nivs. And it also sets up the Worldgorger Dragon combo with Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, and Necromancy. Setting up a Dragon Reanimator strategy is more explosive than The Ur-Dragon which I also play, lol.

I remember building wrath tribal with atraxa, just pure control with so many boardwhipes and having atraxa just as a powerful creature that i never minded expending infinite mana to cast

Olivia, Crimson Bride was my replacement commander for Kaalia, she works the same except she uses the graveyard and not the hand, and her having haste makes a WORLD of difference

In defense of Morophon Slivers, since it's colorless to cast you're able to build a non-5-color mana base around whatever tribe you're in. I have brewed a "Naya Slivers" deck around Morophon, where i run a budget Naya mana base and a bunch of Slivers that are in Naya colors, or are R/X G/X W/X. Morophon's discount is really good for that tribe honestly.

I have a Kaalia deck and it plays a lot more smoothly than the clash crew gave it credit. I have a ton of mana rocks to ramp into my big threats, pleanty of protection for Kaalia, and TONS of board wipes and interaction for when Kaalia does get delt with. Half of the deck is hay makers so when you make it to the late game you're sitting pretty Edit: A lot of people are less scared of Kaalia these days, I can typically politic my way into the table hating the green player over me (then i armageddon but oopsies)

I feel like commander that are basically just " whenever you do x, draw a card" are boring in general, unless it's something like Gitrog monster, where the thing you're doing is otherwise detrimental.

On the topic of Atraxa, at least for me, it's the sheer amount of extra things that she forces me to do. Those extra counters every turn add up and I get tired of ticking them up by the third activation.

I think the big appeal for Atraxa is that she fits into so many different deck variants. You guys mentioned four different deck themes ( super friends, +1/+1 builds, Infect, and Energy). We also have -1/-1 counter builds, the ability counters that showed up in Ixalan (and shield counters from New Capenna). I've played against a stax variant which was interesting. I'll agree that there are cards that'll do an aspect of Atraxa better/more interesting. Aminatou letting a walker activate twice is far more interesting than +1 loyalty. But it's not offering the versatility that Atraxa has. My current build of Atraxa is a themed deck around the Scars block and the infect mechanic is what I wanted to build around. I like the idea that proliferate is a slower mechanic and she being the symbol of Phyrexia's conquest of the plane Mirrodin just felt right. So it messes with poison and -1/-1 counters from infect and more -1/-1 from other spells while also adjusting the loyalty of the two Compleated walkers and +1/+1 counters from Sword of Truth and Justice.

How does myrim get the 4th spot over tiamat?

I did yell when you mentioned Krenko lol

idk if its been said yet but a bit of the combos Tomer said using Scion dont actually work because once Scion's ability resolves it is a copy of what it sent and not the Scion anymore nor has its original ability for that turn. The moltensteel + Skythrix combo works because you can put 2 activations of Scion of the stack and then when the first resolves do moltensteel in response to the 2nd copy of the ability being on the stack but you cant go for example sent an attack trigger dragon, swing for its trigger and then send a combat damage trigger dragon because at that point scion no longer has the ability to do so for the turn

I have a sliver deck that's piloted by Morophon.. sometimes. I actually have all the five color slivers plus Morophon,and I randomly select one before the start of the game.

Miirym 3 color dragon - so cool! I have a Kaalia deck, but it is also packed with nasty stax to warn people to back off😁

I really like Purphoros as a goblin commander. It just gives you a bit of extra reach with the damage. Surprised it wasn't mentioned

For goblintribe and any tribe at all: Try out to swich the commander with cards you allready have in (as long the colors stay otherwise talk with your table they might allow it)

I've had a Krenko deck for years and it's still one of my favorite to play... It's evolved too. It started as a world war G (Z) swarm and attack, aggro-wide deck... It's evolved to a glimpse of tomorrow/indomitable creativity combo deck. It's posted on Moxfield

I like Zimone as a fair simic alternative to something like Aesi that also encourages you to include untap/activated ability copying to get more value out of the options she provides. Also, another cute combo with Scion is to get an unblocked swing in against anyone, entomb a Balefire, get the trigger on the stack, entomb a deathtouch dragon, blow up your opponent's creatures no matter how big. Or life link to gain a bunch.

When it comes to Kaalia, if there were more Mardu commanders for Angel tribal I might consider something else. When I built mine, I had angels in all of those colors I knew I wanted to run, and even in 2022, there just aren't a lot of options for that. Giada is great, for sure (and she's in my Kaalia deck of course), but mono white's rather restrictive, and if you want both Aurelia and Liesa, you're out of luck unless you run 3-mana Kaalia (which just isn't as flashy). Kaalia was also the Commander that made me interested in the format, though, so even with a better Mardu one, I might still stick with her just for sentimental reasons. If they give us a solid Mardu Avacyn someday, I'll switch in a heartbeat, though. :P

For human tribal, I recommend Saskia the Unyielding, with a splash of multicolored matters cards. Like hero of precinct one and general ferrous

Doesn't Scion of the Ur-Dragon lose the copy ability when it becomes the copy? So what Tomer is explaining with extra combats doesn't work. It changes into the dragon, them that's it. While you can stack the triggers, it becomes whichever was last on the stack and that's it until end of turn.

On the topic of Kess, I gotta pour one out to Gale, Waterdeep Prodigy. As soon as I built it, it became one of my staple decks. You lose a colour compared to Kess, but it costs one less mana, you choose a second effect to go with it, and Gale forces a really interesting balance between instants and sorceries. It forces fun deckbuilding, and breeds creativity. Gale Scion of Halaster storm is my current deck, I absolutely love it.

One of the things not mentioned in this ep is the context of when the deck was registered. Kailia is an example of greatness in numbers over time. Six years ago, she was a very popular deck. Where is she now?

This was years ago but my Uncle and I have a magic group that we play with and one of our community decks we had was a Scion of the Ur dragon deck and one of my favorite things was drawing a Living Death waiting until the end of the turn before me, and entombing 4 dragons that i mass reanimated the next turn for the win. 100% with Tomer that Scion makes a infinitely more interesting and fun dragon play style

Nice podcast, I do have a Scion of the Ur-Dragon commander deck, which has angels and demons and plays Kaalia in the 99. Sure, I "should" play more dragons, but I like to imagine that my angels are riding the dragons into battle.

My favorite landfall commander, is Kyneos and Tiro, same colors as Omnath, draws you a card and lets you drop an extra land every turn, but also give your opponents just enough value that no one ever ever removes it

Would you guys ever consider an episode about what you think are the most interesting commanders?

Also, would love to see more! Also Underrated :)

So, I think there is a rules issue during the discussion on Scion of the Ur Dragon. You can activate scion multiple times in a turn, but only in response to each other. The moment that one search ability resolves, you can’t activate again that turn because the ability is gone as Scion is now a copy of something else. I totally willing to be wrong on this one. JUDGE!?

I built a kaalia deck about a year ago, but after about 3 games. I took the whole deck apart and made it Olivia mobilized for war. Basically a big mana haste/extra combat deck. With kaalaia games were so boring, and I hated the exact situations that you guys pointed out with her. With Olivia I was able to find a place for most of those dragons and demons. You only need Olivia for a while then you can find other replacements for her if he gets popped. She's also more resilient with the discard/reanimate sub theme. I think Olivia is a good replacement for kaalia. Its one of my favorite decks.

Jodah, the Unifier for human tribal or well any tribal that has a lot of legendaries I have like 5 tribal decks using him now Dragon, Vampire, Spirits, Humans, and Gods