P0016: CKP-CMP Correlation case study: GM 4.3 V6

Рет қаралды 94,695

8 жыл бұрын

This GMC van is throwing a P0016 DTC for cam-crank correlation.
What better opportunity to scope some cam and crank signals!
Might want to have paper and pencil handy for a quick "back of the envelope" calculation :)
Enjoy

Пікірлер: 81

@thegreataepshow4311 9 ай бұрын

Thank you so much man. I couldn’t seem to pin down why the cel light wouldn’t go away on my express van. Your video was spot on. I had that part out and in my hand at one point and didn’t notice the worn teeth. But I did snap a pic of the part when it was out. And the picture shows they are def worn. So tomorrow I’ll be swapping it out. Thanks again

@connallykendrick9350 2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate this, man! Steps I've gone through so far - Flushed, then Changed oil and filter, Swapped crank sensor ( didn't have a multimeter on hand) - next I'll likely check and/or change the cam sensor. Probably will check for some play before I do that since I'll be in the distributor anyway. If that's not it, I may have this same issue!

@stuzman52 8 жыл бұрын

Nice find Ivan on the distributor. Having the right tools for diagnostics does make things a lot easier to find out what's wrong. Keep up the good work!

@jdarnell123 7 жыл бұрын

Excellent video! I love your progression from fault to fix using your scope and code reader. Your thorough understanding of what the possible variables are in causing a problem makes the repair process a "checklist" of systematically eliminating each one. Thanks for your time in making the video and your clear communication throughout. :)

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the nice comment! The logical scientific approach never fails! Well...almost never lol

@emanlear3456 3 жыл бұрын

You nailed that one big time. The math is of course a requirement and amazingly, down to a degree. That's how it's done kids! Well done young man.

@billyr9840 8 жыл бұрын

Ivan, nice find! I am like you, I like the hard numbers too! And yes, math is a beautiful thing, it does not lie ! I know it is good for your average DYI to learn the wrenching aspect of automobile repair, but I love when you break out the scope. In hind sight your approach to the wrenching is very creative and well thought out, so in its self that is a good thing !

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Billy! Wow can't believe this video was made 3 years ago! Haven't seen you in the comment section in a while...how are things?

@billyr9840 5 жыл бұрын

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics things are good, thanks for asking! Hope things are good for you. Been very busy at work and home but I still follow you and Paul, Matt Eric, Steve and a few others even if I'm quiet in the comment section. Matter of fact I just got done watching your Christmas Special, Dogde from hell series. Hope you and the Misses had a good Christmas. HAPPY NEW YEAR ALSO ! Take Care!

@toroon 8 жыл бұрын

Nice find Ivan. Good info as usual I had to do the math twice. Some of us don't think you know like....good. Well done.

@larryhurst8958 8 жыл бұрын

Sweet. You mentioned that slop in the chain setup would show up on cam/crank wave forms. With the slop in the gear on the dist. wonder why the pattern always stayed fixed, why not the same as loose chain. Be nice to be able to pin point the wear without pulling the distributor. I had a 99 5.7L Chevy in the shop other day had -11 deg and I got it to +3 by moving dist. Had no code for cam/crank. Nor did it affect the running issue. Also had a MAP unplugged, did set that code. Plugging back in made no difference other than clearing code. Been to 3 other shops, with tuneup and MAF for loss of power. Other shops wanted converters installed. Would not no over 4Krpm hot, cold ok. Fuel pump fixed it. Good volume and pressure cold, but took 30 min driving to get pump to lose enough output to give driveability problem. Great videos,

@billrimmer5596 8 жыл бұрын

So the two channel scope was very helpful. Your MaxiDas would have also told u the degrees of the cmp. I always try to figure a way without the Verus! 10,000. Reasons!! Thank u Ivan!!!

@georgeheri895 8 жыл бұрын

Ivan usually anything below 10 degrees will not set the light, GM LIKes plus or minus 2 degrees. They are very touchy to set just touch the dist with engine running over 1200rpm and pid showing on scan tool to adjust. Very good vid . Thanks

@Travisfromoregon 7 жыл бұрын

Like the math, always a plus when you add it to your videos !!! :)

@wysetech2000 8 жыл бұрын

Nice find and repair, Ivan. Distributor gear wear is quite common on those engines. On some there is a crank/cam correlation relearn procedure on the scan tool.

@larryhurst8958 8 жыл бұрын

Yep. except bought an adapter set that Scanner rec. and actually the gauge was on the dash cluster. Still a little uneasy as the pressure port is right by the distributor and stray volts and leaking fuel can be a hazzard, lol. Thanks for the reply and the explanation on the slop at the distributor drive gear, makes sense.

@travishammond3345 5 жыл бұрын

Had a shop change my timing chain after changing oil pump. Getting p0016 on 2014 Silverado 4.3 ecotec. Changed the crank sensor going to change the cam sensor next and see what that does. Some one says it’s recommended to change those after timing chain job.

@craigpeate8002 2 жыл бұрын

Did you figure out what was causing the p0016?

@fieldsofomagh 8 жыл бұрын

That multi channel scope sure comes in handy especially with the crank/cam signal. Good diagnosis. Me thought distributors were for the auto museum.

@billrimmer5596 8 жыл бұрын

It drives the oil pump so u have to stick something in there

@kellygibson7299 8 жыл бұрын

great video Ivan. thanks for sharing

@dougkubash8673 7 ай бұрын

We had 7 2003 S-10's in our fleet and had to replace the distributors in 3 of them. The gear was ok but the housings were wore out where the rotor would hit the cap. All were over 150K miles.

@whitetiger8652 8 жыл бұрын

Great find Ivan.

@547Rick 8 жыл бұрын

Another great job!

@glenohara6563 8 жыл бұрын

G'day Ivan. In Australia we have this same problem with our local Ford six cylinder engines from about 1989 to 1998 models. The problem over here is the replacement Chinese distributors, their gear is either the wrong pitch or too soft and they end up chewing out like the one you have. The companies fix for this after we alerted them was to put an instruction in the box to reuse the factory gear! Lots of help.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Glen O'Hara lol you might have to start machining your own custom distributor gears!

@irishkiley 8 жыл бұрын

im having the same code with my 2008 chevy hhr 2.2 ls it runs great when i get it to start but it has a long start or takes 2 or 3 times to get started cant pass echeck it has no distributor so what is its issue do i need to replace the sensors or what else?it has 98k plus the check engine light doesn't work at all need to get it passed threw echeck so what can i do to fix it?

@willemstreutgers1154 7 жыл бұрын

Ivan, congratulations man, good find and fix. How about moving one teeth to plus 5 degrees and then when there becomes some wear it will be at 0 degrees?

@morganrathbone7960 8 жыл бұрын

I need to get myself a scope so that i can start diagnosing the 4 cars i have sitting in my driveway. Does anyone have any ideas on a good relatively cheap scope?

@simonflores3410 8 жыл бұрын

96 jeep Cherokee sport 4.0 install a new ingintion switch as soon I connect the neg battery terminal the car start cranking an the key is on the off position an in park what do I check next like ur vedios

@adanarceo4636 4 жыл бұрын

That's good enough for me pine hollow, if there's no CEL, good job sir.....

@slimeslimgamerz3043 8 жыл бұрын

thanks ivan your vids are getting better.can you take the grid off the verus screen so i can see it better not being nit pickey cant see as good as i use to thanks

@brunopecego5297 Жыл бұрын

cool. i have the same engine running -19 spark timig at idle. Did this car have any drivability issues? on mine i have an over reporting MAF sensor and a rich condition. i think the late ignition is causing low rpm and to compensate my iac valve is opening a lot more than it should causing a high 8g/s reading. unfortunately i dont have a scope and my scan tool doesnt show IAC count to confirm. cheers!

@adamtrombino106 5 жыл бұрын

After the new dist, do a cam/crank relearn procedure. I'll bet 1 of 2 things happen: Either it's now 0* OR you will find slop in the chain by a couple *. Cam gear is harder than the dist. gear. More than likely not a cam gear worn out, causing the -5*. As you say, not yet enough to make the engine light come on.

@BaysLB 7 жыл бұрын

Had the same motor with the non adjustable distributor. Mine showed -3 every time I scanned it.

@schrodingersboxquantummeka2008 8 жыл бұрын

Well done Ivan. I see this from time to time on 4.3L vortecs on blazers and jimmys. Another fine production from the james danner school of filmography lol!

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Schrodinger's Box Quantum Mekanix Hey Matt what's up bro! It would take me longer to set up my tripod than actually film this one lol At this point the focus is on the quality of the content and actually getting the car fixed in a timely manner...but I'll have to take some filmography classes at some point in time for sure :)

@schrodingersboxquantummeka2008 8 жыл бұрын

motoYam82 Lol just yanking ur chain. You know as well as anyone that quality of content will get you farther in the long run! Agreed the tripod easily doubles filming time. It's like having a ball and chain on your ankle almost lol. Congrats on 2K subs. Your productivity is amazing. Last I saw you had only like 8 videos now you must have 50 lol!

@TheMrmmkkpro 4 жыл бұрын

Nice work, my buddies 04 4.3 silverado is throwing a p0016, we replaced the cam sensor and did a tune up but still throwing the code. I need a diagnostic machine, my old code reader only does so much. Reckon I will pull the distributor and check it out. Thanks for posting, really helps a old school dude. 👍👍🏁

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment Michael! It is a very common misconception to think that a bad cam sensor causes the P0016. In fact, the P0016 tells you that the sensors are GOOD, but the correlation/timing is off. Cars are smart these days...sometimes too smart!

@TheMrmmkkpro 4 жыл бұрын

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thanks for the reply, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I pulled the distributor, gear looks good no slop on bushings. The crank sensor is covered in oil, would that cause the code? He had a guy put a timing chain in a few weeks ago. It was doing this before timing chain, he got it back and it ran good for a couple weeks, now the problem is back, I'm old school guy, and I understand the sensors are taking to each other just not at correct time, not sure what to do. I appreciate your time and reply, thank you very much. 👍👍

@Ucisneros Жыл бұрын

@@TheMrmmkkpro Im dealing with a P0016 code on my 04 Silverado 4.3 also. Havent done anything towards a fix yet but I think I will start with an oil change and check out the distributor. Any solve on your issue? Please share if so.

@TheMrmmkkpro Жыл бұрын

@@Ucisneros Ended up being clogged catalytic converters. Bought some online , replaced them and the truck ran great. It was real sluggish , didn't want to Rev up or pull over 20 mph. Truck is gone ,as far as I know it's still doing good. Hope you find your issue.

@retroguitarmaster 8 жыл бұрын

Great find

@quanaldridge6211 2 жыл бұрын

One question, did you inspect the gear on the camshaft where the distributor gear meshes?

@cojns1627 8 жыл бұрын

Wish I could see those waveforms clearer, but it looks like you can see roughness in the top and bottom of the waveforms caused by the valves. It looks like something might be worn causing the cam to turn faster at certain times making little spikes in the signals. Kind of like a relative compression test. Look at the spikes at 5:47 see that little spike/squiggle hump thingy right after the transition on the cam and crank signal. They are perfectly lined up on both the cam and crank signal. Since the sensor work by seeing the shaft moving, if it started turning faster or slower because of less friction with the valves wouldn't that show up in the signal as a hump or spike?

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Co Jones To answer that question, we have to ask "how do these sensors work and what are we able to see on the waveforms?" These are 3-wire hall-effect sensors, that put out a DIGITAL (on/off) square wave signal. The only thing we can say for certain is where the transition occurs. So when comparing cam to crank, if those transitions move with respect to each other, then we can say there are some worn timing components. Any squiggles that you see on the high or low portions is just electrical noise, and contains no useful information. Great question!

@feeneysmechanical6215 8 жыл бұрын

We don't even have snow in buffalo right now. the southern tier got snow a day ago but it's all melted.

@ozzstars_cars 8 жыл бұрын

good fix man

@walmahmood 7 жыл бұрын

nice work.. thanks

@JamesValentineBaja1000 3 жыл бұрын

That was great!

@upallnight888 8 жыл бұрын

Because you had a CKP-CMP correlation problem most DIYERs and a majority of the mechanics would have just replaced a cam sensor or a crank position sensor. Great call on the distributor. Most young mechanics these days don't even know how to retime a distributor once they pull it out.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Upallnight Thanks! Yup I've seen that before. The name of the code itself should tell you off the bat that the signals are indeed present...maybe the word "correlation" is too complicated? :)

@david619dc 8 жыл бұрын

+motoYam82 iven I was just wander if you can share with me how did you make the pressure transducer thanks

@barryc2307 8 жыл бұрын

You didn't do a crankshaft position relearn after replacing distributor? HHMMM. I have to say you got one of the easy ones. I always seem to the ones that have to be towed in and won't start. Pull the cap and the rotor doesn't turn. Then you have to try to find the correct location for TDC on number 1 and very limited movement of dist to try to see if your close or if you can get it running. Fun! LOL

@bobweiss8682 8 жыл бұрын

Nice video! I wonder if the camshaft gear is in similar condition....

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Bob Weiss Considering the slop went away, I wouldn't think so. Generally the dist shaft gear is made of a softer metal to preserve the camshaft gear :)

@sergiocharnichart8448 5 жыл бұрын

BUEN VIDEO SALUDOS DE ALAMO VERACRUZ MEXICO

@estrelladelnorte1308 8 жыл бұрын

the user Willem Streutgers mentioned that you could file the distribuitor where the holding bolt goes , to give it some slack

@MrWrenchworks 7 жыл бұрын

Maybe the -5 to -8 is that tc is stretched and camshaft gear is worn also? Keep up the great work! Also remind us viewers to like and subscribe....I forget quite often to hit like. Thanks again

@kkovler1 8 жыл бұрын

Like the diagnosis, but would it would be nice to know how one can troubleshoot without such an expensive scan tool. could it be done without guessing, without a scope?

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+kkovler1 Basically you need to know how many degrees the cam is retarded for a 100% diagnosis. In this case you need one of two things: a 2-channel scope with a known-good waveform, or an OEM-level scan tool that can show the cam degrees data. Each of those tools cost under a grand...(and I got my Verus used for a grand off the tool truck...great investment so far!) Of course you can also feel for slop in the distributor shaft and do a visual inspection on the gear...but I like hard numbers :)

@cojns1627 8 жыл бұрын

+kkovler1 The old school way is to watch for movement on the cam, crank and distributor while turning the crank bolt backward with a wrench to see when each of them move. Look or feel through the oil fill hole, or take the valve cover off if you can't see the cam. You're just looking for when they move so timing isn't important. You might have to take the cam sensor off if it's on a distributor-like shaft like on some Fords. Line up the crank TDC mark with it's reference mark on the block and mark the dist/sensor shaft so you know when the rotor shaft is turning. Rotate crank to TDC in the direction the engine turns. When it's lined up turn the crank backwards slowly until there is movement on either the distributor or cam, Mark the crank pulley at your refernce. Keep turning the crank backwards until the other moves. Mark the crank. The marks on the crank between TDC and where the cam or distributor starts to move is how many degrees of backlash is in the timing system for each of them. The marks should be very close together if everything is alright. There will always be a small amount of backlash because gears have to have it to work. But anything over about 5-10 degrees on the crank would point to trouble. Usually, you'd just worry about TDC and the dist rotor because that shows the total backlash is the entire timing system. If you wanted to know how bad the dist gear is worn. Take off the cap and turn the rotor button back and forth. Us Ol' dinosaurs don't need no scopes. ;P Sorry for the wall of text, but you asked.

@kkovler1 8 жыл бұрын

thanks, I do remember hearing that technique years ago. nice to know it still applies!

@ketillea5879 3 жыл бұрын

Iv seen worn out dist gears like that many times on the 4,3.

@somerandomguy3868 7 жыл бұрын

you're very proficient with verus and other diagnostic tools. if you know does OBD Il include total engine run time

@ericverster4069 5 жыл бұрын

What a fucking beast!!! I hope to get on your level one day good sir!

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 5 жыл бұрын

Hey Eric thanks for the comment man. This was a cool diag and repair with some fun math :)

@MuhammadAli-su3oo 6 жыл бұрын

Ivan.. Number of Teeth on Distributor equal to Number of Teeth on Camshaft gear; which turns Distributor? not the One which correlates timing with Crank. 720° of Crank = 360° of Cam; a Gear which turns Distributor gear been called Skew Gear and located at some distance than Cam Gear/Pulley/Sprocket.

@willemstreutgers1154 8 жыл бұрын

Hi, Ivan, why not take a round file and give the distributor a litlle more play? It is an easy job and jou can get a full sync. Nice to know you came from the eastern part of Russia, wish you a lot of succes in the USA.

@martinarrieta7779 8 жыл бұрын

bonito video grasias

@blueelectricfusion 5 жыл бұрын

not pulling sensor to zero

@charlesmiller5078 8 жыл бұрын

So when it starts snowing are you going to take us out with you, maybe you don't work in the snow?

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Charles Miller What snow? I am from Siberia.

@charlesmiller5078 8 жыл бұрын

Siberia Pennsylvania cool....:) Have a good friend from.Siberia, came to the US when he was 19 he is now 30, his name is Dan Draca, great guy, you might know him :)

@TrevAutoTech 8 жыл бұрын

you can replace that gear at the end of the distributor. you don't have to replace the entire distributor

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8 жыл бұрын

+Trevor Beausoleil Cheaper to replace the whole assembly, since the shaft bushings are also worn. Plus you get new cap and rotor :)

@TrevAutoTech 8 жыл бұрын

+motoYam82 I've replaced at least 10 of those gears and never had any issues

@ifecojahs8151 8 жыл бұрын

I calculating 360 degrees earlier

@frankmata3951 7 жыл бұрын

I don't think you have to buy the hole distributor.They sell do sell jus the distributor gear you,And you just have press it in.

@Clete88 8 жыл бұрын

All of these repair vids are interesting, but they make me want to go back to old tech when you didn't need a $10,000 scan tool, and if something was broke, it wouldn't be a sensor that you can't repair.....I guess this is progress for now....but what if times got hard? Too much BS on a basic chariot is what this is... Call me an old timer I guess....but at least I could fix my vehicles myself....can't really do that now.