One of my ground guys came up with "drop like a rock, land like a feather". I think that makes it easy for a new guy to understand what "let it run" means.

Patrick, thanks so much for freely sharing your knowledge. You are a credit to all the amazing arborists who came before and handed down their learnings. Thanks!!!

Iv learned over the years about what your taking about it's a life saver. Good vid mate👍🏻

When you bend a member, one side of the bend will be in tension, one side will be in compression

I really appreciate all those recommendations you give us to prevent a big disaster thank you so much

Always great to rewatch. Thanks Patrick!

Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge and experience, Patrick!

I would also point out clarifying priorities. I've read so many comments on different tree video of climbers getting upset with the groundsmen for not letting it run. What i never see is people wondering WHY the groundie didn't run it. I remember being a groundie and afraid to loose control of the piece so i held it tighter than needed to ensure i wouldn't loose control if it had too much weight + momentum. Train the roping in situations where its a bonus, not critical. Clarify priorities. sometimes we rope things to avoid damaging the ground, in that situation its not critical and running would be the priority over control. A house under it with a strong rigging point, priority is safety, followed to preventing the piece hitting the house.

I am grateful I came across your videos. As many, I learned from watching my Father run saws 30 years ago. Your videos provide the “why” needed to truly understand the “how”, which improves skills and SAFETY. Thank you

Awesome stuff friend, explained in a manner that's simple to understand, thank you,

Thank you Patrick, for another very good informative video! Keep up the good work. Cheers mate

Patrick, another good one. Thanks for the wisdom. 👍🏼

Thanks for this video. I'll definitely watch more. This is very informative and interesting to me...

Sir, that was some great information! Makes so much sense!

LOVED hearing the egg-analogy, use that all the time myself when in a tree not just rigging but sometimes my own lines or limbwalks, it really is the best way to look at the stuff IMO! You did a GREAT service making this video, our industry is suffering greatly from our 'norm' wherein we calculate numbers based on STATIC strengths (will include a link to Yale's amazingly succinct-but-complete lil article&video on the subject, showing how a 6k force can shatter a 20k static line but not a 6.5k climb line) So, that said, something you left-out that I think bears incredible importance, is **dynamic-energy-absorption** of our cordages, the Yale article&video in the url below explain just how significant & extreme the variation between ropes is, I use their Polydyne (1/2 and 5/8) as bullrope and couldn't imagine going with, say, a 1-something-% line like Sirius because, as you say, *dynamic* forces are virtually inescapable...in fact I dislike how it's put that way (not just by you but I just put it that way, and others do all the time..), it's not 'virtually inescapable' it's "dynamic forces are basically the ONLY forces in arb-rigging", for it to be purely-static you'd have to be lifting a log, pre-tensioned before the cut, and the log would have to lift-up (or stay-still) post-cut for it to be truly static, any side-to-side on the rope immediately creates a dynamic situation. But we look at static-ABS, say "Use 5:1 or 10:1", and presume it's OK but those 5:1's/10:1's become pointless when they SOLELY consider *static* capacity of the cordage, and FULLY ignore the rope's dynamic-capacity(elasticity-at-10%ABS, for instance my polydyne is 3.5%, so is my climb line Mercury, wish my TEC slings were more-dynamic but they're just 1.4%.....people do, at least, know not to go for Dyneema/Amsteel, it's like 0.5%, but for some reason they just consider bullropes as 'apples-to-apples' as-if two ropes of, say, 20k *static* ABS, can handle the same *dynamic* forces...their dynamic-capacity could literally be off by an order of magnitude, if the elasticity-difference (shock-absorption difference) were substantial enough! 1 other thing, just an omission I wish you'd included...another commenter here writes "drop like a rock, land like a feather" (Re 'letting it run' properly), good analogy, anyway RINGS - which I know you like (including Safebloc, which is my fave anchor :D ), these are game-changers(as you explicitly say in your video that's focused on them) because for all these dynamic-rig-configurations we create, the rings/safeblocs(even Porty's) are "lowering the initial weight of 'the rock'" from that analogy, that 250lbs log that has to be "fell like a rock but slowed to land like a feather" is now a 175lbs rock/log because of the rings/friction, this enhances how much weight someone can safely take, how much weight you can put onto your ropes, and how much weight you can put onto any of your anchoring-points in the tree! I've got a very strong intuition that elasticity of the bullrope has a positive correlation with 'padding' the rings (consistency-of-force) with the rings than more static sub-2% bullropes would, just imagine a more-elastic line being stretched-through a long 20-holed Safebloc, it's squeeze (and ultimately, failure) would be far more-forgiving than a more-static rope. (I'd also add that, in addition to a more-elastic rope being able to take heavier loads at any given static-ABS rating, for instance my 3/4 polydyne isn't much-higher in static-ABS than TEC but for dynamic-strength it is far stronger, but for LOADS OF SAME FORCE a more-elastic line will also "provide cushion" and give a lower perceived-force to the person holding the rope and will lessen shocks to the system(anchors, tie-in points etc) as well) I use TEC because of how simple it is, also the lay of the cordage is brilliant, but if Samson's PTS-12 (same as TEC but nylon instead of polyester) were available I'd prefer that anyday, hell the shorter the leg-of-rope that's in-use, the more important elasticity becomes....you could lower the peak-force of a 500lbs log tremendously if you set a double-rig system on it, wherein each system had a Safebloc terminal anchoring for its bullrope, and each of the bullropes went to a Safebloc on the 500lbs log. This 4-Bloc system would, of course, allow higher weights based explicitly on the dynamic-capacity/stretch of the ropes because of the short lengths, I've heard people say 'you can't do that' but Dave's & Lawrence's videos have them doing this (using Safeblocs in double-whip setups for *both* log & anchor point hardware), would love to get a dyno/load-cell out to see just how light you can make a 500lbs log if reallllly trying to 'cushion' it every possible way! [SAFETY NOTE- ^that is extreme usage and is flirting with tearing ropes, and is for context/discussion only, would hate for anyone to think this is advice to go use themselves PLEASE never try double whipping something based on anything I've written hell my experience w/ double whipping still needs improvement this is theory, but it's #'s so it's pretty objective/not an opinion thing!] Yale's amazing (yet succinct!) lil article & video explaining & demonstrating just how severe the differences are in your ropes, and why relying on ABS (without also computing elasticity) is dangerous: www.yalecordage.com/featured-industries/arborculture/dynamic-energy-arborist-rope

Absolutely great video, thank you Patrick

this made great homeschool content for my son today. we are getting ready to lower a couple pretty big oak limbs here at home. he is my 11 y/o groundie. he said he already knew most of the stuff here. : D

Love the movie snippets!!! Physics nerd nitpick: ==>

Keep these basic vids coming Patrick. My new groundie uses these when I'm up in the tree and he is confused.

Clear descriptions of what we deal with ! ☘

I would LOVE to see an in-depth video on your rigging plan and use of rings. PLEASE!!!!!

Great job buddy 👍 I learn so much from you thanks

You’re great man, thanks for the wisdom.

Good video man. I've been doing tree work over 10 years now, and this was still very knowledgeable. Especially for the green guys lol. Be safe man..

Love the video, love your shirt. Its not messy, its beautiful. 🤙

We call 'let it run' a soft catch. As the ground rigger for my crew I've been setting up redirects on a block and anchor so I'm never in the way. Great video.

Hi Patrick, could you show a video of a groundy doing a "text book" letting it run. It makes sense, but seeing a technique would be really helpful.

Thanks Patrick, I'm going to forward this to my new ground guy:)

Thank you so much valuable time and knowledge

Ive just sent this video to my ground guys. great tutorial. Every climber has the term let it run programmed into there vocabulary.

Thanks Patrick I love your instructional videos and the movie references are funny too good to hear from you again I’m sure you’re busy

I learn much from you man, great info..

Patrick, thank you so much for making this video. Very informative. I’m looking at getting into this career field. Is there a college? Or apprenticeships.?

Patrick out that was very informative for this young 45yo whos been doing tree removals for years wo difficult situations where down rigging is required where I'd usually phone a friend 😂. Can't wait to watch part 2 and more of your awesome content!

Thank you very for the video. Your a very good teacher.

Thanks for this video!

In physics, tension is the opposite of compression, or the pulling apart of the stick. The sideways force you use to break the stick is actually called “shear.”

Right on Patrick!

Thank you for this!

Enjoyed, thank you.

Great video. Thank you from a newcomer.

Excellent video real good information. Oh n we love our T shirts 👍🏼

Great vid! Any recommendations on where I can pick one of those rigging rings up at? Also what knot do have in the rope tied around tree to the ring? Thanks

You got to get into teaching more that was probably one of your best demonstration and full examined analysis of the reality of everything in rigging I don't think I could have said it any better myself brother and the physics behind it is a mandatory for people to understand due to the fact that it is reality I apologize for not telling you happy Father's day yesterday but I am definitely telling you now happy Father's Day my brother and thank you very much for that great demonstration

cool video! For the dynamic loading and choc loading, those are concept reallly well explained in the rock climbing community (always the case when you take a fall in lead). That's why all the gear is in kilonewton and rated for like 25kn (aprox the equivalent of 2500 KG or 5000 pounds!)

Great explanation thanks for the vids got Jerry’s book download off u lots of valuable info in there put so average guy can get it 👍

Sure do appreciate your videos they are the best. I have learned so much from watching your vids. I see some guys dropping limbs with a half hitch and a steel snaphook rather than tying a knot. What are your thoughts? Sure seems a lot quicker to wrap it and snap it but I know there can be a side load issue with snaps. But then again if the weight isn't too bad why not? Again brother, love your videos, I subscribe to several tree guys because I'm new and learning and you are my favorite. I like your style.

Thank u 🙏 just in time

Great video. You got my sub bro .

Love it thank you

"BIG TIME" helpful !!

MN noob. Loved the Mighty Ducks reference. Thanks for the help.

Great video, I think bending forces are both tensive and compressive forces, compression on one side and tension on the other, making the wood break.

Nowwww I get the catch the egg comment from your latest video. Great info!

Good to see ya, been a while. Thank you sir.

great video.

Good info!

Hello I was wondering if I could use a hitch climber micro pulley for negative rigging on removing a coconut tree?

Thanks 😉👍

Good video buddy

Great discussion on rigging forces I like the use of the sling for determining vector 👍👍❤️

fantastic vid Patric 👍🏻 from uk brother 🙏🏻

I have understanding of forces, but I am not up on terms. Thanks for taking the time to make this. I have to do a rigging class soon. Thanks for all the info sir. Keep safe.🤙

I do not have much experience. I would also like to know how to estimate the weight of one piece. I guess that depends on the size and type of tree it is. Do you know if there is a table with the approximate densities of each type of tree?

Thanks

If i have a caribiner and some rope can that work for small rigging as like a block or pulley im curious on if that can work as a quick sling to rig small peice or not

I understand all the phisics envolved in riging systems thanks to you. I like to think that "let it Run" is like the ABS on a car. You absorb the force gradualy. Thans

Dont forget the load on your block/sling/section of tree you are rigging on is double that of the load itself.

I agree

very good

Good information. Our system is to swing tops over, pretty nasty business sometimes.

Well, So when you bend the stick, you are actually adding torsion into the mix. This would result in a combination of compression and tension, where the tension causes the failure in the wood itself. The compression acts as a lever, which increases the tension on the top end of the wood, allowing a failure.

One thing to note, tension in a branch is the force longitudinally outward. When you bend a branch you actually creat both tension and compression in the wood. Tension in the outside of the bend and compression on the inside. These forces meet in the middle creating a shearing force which is why branches tend to split down the middle in some way when broke.

How do you let it run do you leave slack in the lowering device at the bottom?

Dzięki stary za wykład jesteś profesorem tej roboty. Niestety większości muszę się domyślać bo mój angielzki jest kurwa słaby bardzo. Mimo wszystko jesteś kozak. Pozdrawiam

Wow, you have a tree growing in your shop😊

What are some of your suggested different rigging techniques of letting it run other that using a port-a-wrap? And is the port-a-wrap the best method?

Hahaha! Im wearing that exact shirt while I watch this

Hi, thanks for the vid! I'm only a bit in a disagreement with you about the compression/tension concept you use. Even though it's "correct", it's might lead to confusion, imho. The tension you describe it's usually called 'traction'. In arboriculture, as far as I know, tension and compression and more used to describe the two "sides" of the wood depending on the direction of the load (but not along the stem, with an angle) and it's relation with lignine and celulose, buckling, pinching saws, and all 😂 But I might be wrong. Thanks again for you content

The rope can never experience more force than the weight it is lifting. It can experience more force per unit time, which in physics is called "impulse." Impulse is mathematically equivalent to momentum, which is equal to mass x velocity. Velocity can be expressed as a vector, so momentum can also be expressed as a vector. So a slow drop is a force spread out over more time, whereas a shock load is the same force spread over very little time. Both are the same force. In the first case, a slow drop causes a low impulse, whereas in the second case, a shock load causes a very high impulse. But it's the same amount of force in both cases.

Velocity x mass/weight = force I hear you Pat that force divided being much better method than force multipliers shock loads...... directional force inertia multiplied by sudden redirection or uncontrolled deceleration of mass.... Leads to occasional failure and catastrophe

I thought the bending force was considered sheer. Tension would be the opposite of compression, and torque would be the rotational force. Is that not right?

What’s the story with the AFB on the wall?

Most all of my rigging is negative rigging unless I am swinging stuff to another lead. A few years back I was taking a walnut top and the boys were roping using the bollard on the branch manager and they must of wrapped it wrong but the piece stopped dead and gave me one hell of a ride. Didn't fall out of the tree but knocked me off my spurs

Has anyone experimented with a heavy duty spring in the rigging to soften the sudden load from a chunk or tree top?

Awesome video man, your good at explaining stuff, its interesting about negative rigging and just the sheer force the rigging point can experience, I have a post on ig where i drop a huge poplar piece with 3/4 inch samson and 3/4 tenex using a block and 1 ring to deviate the rope so it didnt get smashed. You should look at it, if you watch the ground guy you can see at the pincal of the load it moves him ahead. Normally I wouldn't take such a huge piece but I felt confident in the situation. My estimate is is that block and sling may have experienced around 5k pounds of force. See what you think. Happy fathers day !

Bending, like you did is not tension. It's both tension and compression. The outside would be under tension the inside of the bend would be compression.

Tension is not bending. Tension is pulling on a member. If you pull on a rope you are putting tension into that rope. Bending is what you showed when you broke the stick.

What if you can't let it run very far because how close it is to a roof or a building? What do I do then?

You should carve a set of book ends with some kind of bird.. probably either hawks or eagles. You could make that look sweet! #bmsculpture

That overhead rigging system with the five pound weight, there’s actually ten pounds of force pulling down on that overhead pulley.

When you said started talking about the egg I immediately thought of that clip 🤣👍

"tension, on the otherhand, is bending" It's not, but bending does result in compression on one side of the branch and tension on the other. If you're making a cut and the saw binds up, then the area you cut was in compression. If the cut opens up as your making it then the area was in tension. Most people intuitively know where compression and tension will be.

Did you record this video at the Cracker Barrel?

I thought negative rigging is when the rigging point is above the load

Hey

I like to explain negative rigging as, a driver pumping the breaks to their vehicles. Slowing it gradually or gentle. Shock loading is the impact of driving a car into a brick wall. Potentially Catostrophic energy.

Perhaps clearer to explain that "force" is just a quantity without direction. A "force vector" is a quantity with direction.

But when the taxman come to the door Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah It ain't me, it ain't me

While I know what you are getting at, to me your wording makes it sound like "bending is tension". Bending is both, compression almost always wins.