So grateful for Conlon's voice on the topic of race in the LDS church. What did you learn? What questions do you still have?

One experience I've had being a black member of the Church that has concerned me is some members are still misinformed about things concerning race and the priesthood, like was shared in the video, for example, some members still believe in a “curse of cain”. Also it's annoying and saddening when members say things like “it doesn't matter because the blacks got the priesthood anyway in the end”. What I do appreciate are conversations like these, which I've had in my amazing Institute class. When members do this it helps inform others of the truth and ultimately helps us bring us closer to Christ.

I learned an extremely important lesson arising from the June 9, 1978 announcement. I’ll never forget exactly where I was when the announcement was made. I was 12 years old and was with my mom in her white, 1977 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, tooling along I-215 towards Foothill Blvd. in Salt Lake City when the announcement came over the radio. My mom immediately burst into tears, she was so overjoyed. My response, on the other hand, was, “Wait. There was a ban?” But here’s where the story gets interesting. About 3 years later, I was 15 and a sophomore in high school, and was taking singing lessons from our school choir teacher. After the lesson had ended one day, we got to talking and he shared that he had left the Church. I asked him why. He said he had some quibbles with a few things, then added, “But when they gave the blacks the Priesthood, that was it! I was done!” I was stunned. I could not understand how two adults of roughly the same age could have had such diametrically opposed reactions to what I had presumed was universally good news. It was as if he was suggesting that it was the Church’s fault he’d left-that he was essentially pushed out. I could not make it make sense. Years later I learned that this same choir teacher had come out to his then students as gay and shared about his long-term relationship. I came to believe that it was unlikely that he had actually left the Church due to the 1978 announcement. (I certainly can’t imagine him giving that reason later on in his life.) Rather, I suspect he used what he considered to be a controversial issue as his “stated reason” for leaving the Church when the reality was elsewhere. Since then, whenever I hear of someone leaving the Church over a so-called controversial issue, I can’t help but wonder if, perhaps, that is the reason they’ve latched onto to justify and explain their decision-to suggest that it is the Church’s fault they’re leaving-but that the true reason remains undisclosed.

Pastor Jeff is more than fair. He is Christian in the best way. Wonderful discussion.

I love that we can find common ground and respect each other wherever we are.

Thank you Brother Bonner for your deep and powerful testimony. Your close relationship with the Savior is so inspiring! Sending the best to you and your wonderful family! 💗

Recommend the podcast “Church History Matters” multiple part series on the priesthood race issue. It’s very well done.

Love the Bonner family they are truly an inspiration. Greatest song. Child of God. Thank you for this interview.

The early Church had a problem with Gentiles until Peter's revelation. You can imagine how that revelation was received by many of the stricter Jewish-Christians. When black people began to embrace the restoration, the LDS Church likewise realized it was time to cast off old prejudices. Some members left the Church over the issue, but others were praying for the revelation to come.

I was born and raised in the LDS church in the south and I knew every song Pastor Jeff brought up and love them. I love this conversation and connect with Conlon and relate to how he expresses his experiences .

I grew up in Alliance and Evangelical church’s, and joined the Latter-Day Saint Faith when I was 23! This is a fun episode, because I remember all the children’s church (primary) and worship songs Pastor Jeff mentions! What fun!

I have absolutely loved this podcast. The two of you have demonstrated your faith and your love of music and your love of our Savior. Thank you both SO much!

Well said Pastor Jeff and Brother Bonner. Our daughter passed away after an accident 3 years ago. Our faith is what got us through. We could have been really upset with God, but we chose to let the Atonement of Jesus Christ heal us instead. It has only been 3 years since her death, but we can say the Lord has walked with us in our healing journey. We share the message of the resurrection as often as we can. We share our testimony of the healing power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We know our daughter is alive in Christ and active, happy and healthy!! We look forward to the day when she is returned to our arms and we can continue taking her during the Millennium 😊

Conlon is awesome. Served around him on my mission and he has always been an incredible example and is a true follower of Christ

Rock of Ages is in our hymnal. We don’t sing probably half the hymns in our own hymnal for some reason.

Jeff and Conlon, Thank you for the conversation! Christ is the center of both of our religions. We need to enjoy having relationships with those who have common values, but maybe believe differently about specific doctrine. I believe Father in Heaven is pleased when He sees us working together for worthy causes, and showing a desire to help our fellow brothers and sisters, no matter there nationality, color, race, or religion. :-)

I’m old and grew up in Utah as a non LDS person. I had many LDS friends in the early 1970’s and we talked about the race and temple ban all the time. The response from most LDS folks was simply…It’s not up to us to change the ban, it’s up to God! (Pointing skyward). I was told it’s the Lord’s church so that answer made sense. Others did say the timing was not right as blacks were not ready for the priesthood keys. It would be like giving a 3 year old the keys to a car. Others said that the members were not ready to accept it. Of course these were just my own experiences. Glad it changed in 1978. It was way past due in my opinion.

2 Nephi 26:33 And he invites ALL to come into him.. Black and White , Bond and Free , Male and Female.. The Lord does not discriminate .. He loves everyone exactly the Same♥️ Loved this podcast !!♥️

Jesus Loves Me and Father Abraham were both sung in LDS Primary when I was a child.

What a faithful conversation. I loved how your testimonies were so complimentary of each other. Loved listening and hearing from Conlon- what a great guy who radiates light.

My cousin sang in Gladys Knight's group "Saints Alive" and was introduced to her. It felt good she knew a bit about our family heritage, but mostly her message in her testimony was deep in my heart, "God knows each of us by name and we come to him individually, without prejudices and stains of this sinful world, but we help each other along the way.

My favorite "Sing With Me" sont was 🎼 Give said the little stream🎵 give Oh give , give Oh give🎶 my Dad (who did his young mission in Uruguay ,& his mission with Mom in Bolivia) used to sing it for us on the way to Grandma's house in Idaho. He'd sing in Spanish😂 what a fun memory 🙏❣️

I grew up Methodist and knew the Doxology song. We always sang it before they passed the collection plate. It is in the LDS Hymnal with the same words that you know, but the title is Praise God, From Whom All Blessings Flow, hymn #242.

I was so glad to hear Conlon’s response to a very typical comment you hear that Pastor Jeff made: “People who have an opinion take away from the voices of those who really should be talking about it”. Conlon’s perfect response was, “Every voice matters. There is value in hearing all perspectives. I hope there’s room for every voice to be heard.” Well said!

The last10 to 15 minutes of this video are my favorite KZfaq moment ever. Thank you Jeff for the work you are doing, the dialogue you have opened, and the peace you are creating as a result. "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." I look forward to the day when "we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ," as a result of the work you are doing here. Thank you!

Love the Bonner Family! ❤

33:38 one thing that I think is helpful to point out is that the LDS church was not alone in speculating about some of these teachings of race in the 1800’s and 1900’s. In fact in a lot of cases some of these ideas were introduced to the LDS church by the culture from which all of these early LDS converts came from.

Thank you for this wonderful episode!!! So many beautiful messages were shared. Conlon is a force for good and he shared great information about Church policy of the past and how nothing is lost. The priesthood flows through him to future generations and past generations. I love that he is willing to be a strong voice and a kind voice on the topic of race. People of many nations, islands, globally and also here in the US can benefit from this discussion and also from his answers. I love how the word "harmony" was used. That is ultimately the goal if we want to return to heaven or live a heavenly existence here and now. Pastor Jeff, thank you for your love of Jesus Christ, for being willing to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and as you said, not fully agreeing, but accepting us in our beliefs. Thank you for taking the time to read the Book of Mormon and also for forming relationships with members of our church. Best Wishes.

I loved this so much!! So grateful for the Bonner Family - their talents & their testimonies of the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!! God loves all of His children. 2 Nephi 26:33 states that all are alike unto God.

Thank you so much for this video. It's probably my favorite of all you have done. I don't live in Utah, so I'm not really familiar with the Bonner family, except for their music at the 2018 commemoration celebration of the Priesthood being given to all worthy men in the Church, particularly Black men. And the access to temple blessings that followed. I appreciate Jeff acknowledging the issues with Jim Crow that happened in his church historically, which I didn't know. Same with Conlon being open about the Priesthood and temple blessings being denied to Black people in the Church. He has come to the same conclusion I did. I know the power I've felt here. I don't understand why that policy happened, I only know that God has taught me to believe what I do. As you mentioned, there have been some ridiculously racist attempts to justify the pre-1978 policy (it was NOT doctrine). I so loved Conlon's personal experiences with the Priesthood, especially as he talked about recieving it in the temple for his ancestors who have passed on.

What a phenomenal video! So many truths were spoken and I felt the spirit so strongly! I believe that the Lord spoke through you both and this message needs to be heard everywhere! Jeff, thank you for what you do!

Those miracles happen to everyone who seeks answers to their tough questions about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God is a God of miracles, and He gives them liberally, as needed, to the sincere and persistent and patient seekers.

Pastor Jeff I love how you bring the conversation to the table in a respectful way teaching the world that LDS and other denominations how you bridge that gap what our similarities are, of course our differences but a lot of things that you teach and you talk about there’s common ground. You shown there is no need for hate speech we can just have a normal conversation among friends. I really admire that about you I remember when I 1st saw your video I was like what is this are you going to bash the LDS church but that 1st indication I was hooked and a lot of members are hooked on your video’s you’ve done an amazing job. As an end game I don’t think your serious will never end the conversation will continue forever. Always new things to discuss and learning is a never ending process.

Google Books: Curse of Ham, some different books come up. David M. Goldenberg is the author of a well researched book; and David M. Whitford is another that has much of the same content. The "curse" beliefs, came about long before the LDS Church came on the scene.

You mentioned one of my favorite mission songs "Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow." Not going to lie, it was my favorite because it was only one verse and 2 lines at that, and it was easy to sing in Chinese (learned the lyrics in the MTC). After 30+ years, I can still remember most of the words in Chinese.

This is probably one of the best of your podcasts that I have seen. Thank you for sharing this and doing this. We do need to have conversations with each other about things that we don’t understand about each other‘s position on religion and other topics. I like what Conlon said about what his sister said about agreeing to agree. we need to learn to be able to see things from another person’s position.

Beautiful story and testimony. Thanks for sharing.🔥 I love hearing real stories and each person’s journey. I love hearing it for members of the LDS Church but also members of other beliefs.

Enjoyed this conversation so much! How wonderful there was no "pounce" on this often difficult topic! Humanity has been dealing with race matters forever it seems, and dialogues like this help move things forward, pleasing our Father.

Pastor, how do you believe the Book of Mormon originated? Have you read the historical record regarding its forthcoming? If you don’t believe it’s the word of God then you must have some other explanation. I’m interested to hear your explanation.

I just listened to the Come Back podcast (LDS members who had left the church and returned). In this episode the host and guest spoke of the BYU Devotional address in 2019 by Lawrence E Corbridge titled “Stand Forever”. It was awesome. It spoke about focusing on answering the primary questions, and if you can, then the secondary questions either answer themselves or become irrelevant. If you spend all your time wading through the secondary questions (priesthood ban, methods of Book of Mormon translation, polygamy), you’ll never be satisfied because as soon as you answer one, another one pops up. The key primary questions are 1. Is there a Heavenly Father? 2. Is Jesus Christ the Son of God? 3. Was Joseph Smith a prophet of God? 4. Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints the Kingdom or God on earth? Listen to the talk, and comment your thoughts.

Pastor Jeff, thank you for taking on a topic that others might shy away from. Conlon was the perfect guest, and I was so impressed with his ability to articulate his feelings. It makes me want to share this with all that question how those of color may view the LDS church's history with race issues. Listening to Conlon was actually inspiring.

Thank you for such an inspired and respectful dialogue. This is wonderful! Agree to agree!

Hello Pastor Jeff- My name is Russ Serage, I've lived in St. George for 30 years and I raised my family here. I was baptized a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Commerce, Oklahoma on June 10, 1978. I'm from Joplin and I'm a generational St. Louis Cardinals fan. I would very much like to meet you If you ever come to St. George (during your Utah travels) or, perhaps during one of my many and frequent trips to Salt Lake City. I've been following you for a good minute and I find you a fascinatingly interesting dude (keep in mind, I've only seen you on edited videos...so, just keepin' it real.) There's nothing special about me, no notoriety of any sort I'm just a long-time member of the church with a Protestant background similar to yours and a fellow "Show Me Stater." I can see from recent videos you have hooked yourself into influencers, unique members of the church, prominent members of the church (BYU professors et al) and so forth, so perhaps you've "moved past" someone like myself...a self-professed "General Worshiper." However, if my request/invitation has piqued even the slightest interest in your giving me a moment of your time...lmk. I own a perspective on the church and being a resident of Utah that's a bit different from most folks around these parts and maybe you might find it useful. Hope to hear from you. Best-

Thank you so much for your perspective, Conlon. I am not of color but I remember first hearing about some of these things at a young age, Maybe 10ish, idk, and being upset. I remember asking my dad about it and him regurgitating some of the theories about why. It didn't make me feel better at all. It wasn't fair and it contradicted with other church teachings. I remember praying about it, concerned, and the impression I got was "it will be sorted" to be patient. It was strong enough that it satisfied me that things will be made right. I don't know why any of it happened the way it did. I'm so happy to see the progress that has been made thus far, and I look to the future with hope and confidence that those things will become clearer. I really appreciate your analogy of a puzzle. That's exactly how it is. There are pieces that I have such a strong testimony of and there are some that I'm waiting for them to become clear. One thing is clear, Christ and God's love for ALL his children. I make a point to operate and see others through that love.

Thank you Conlon. I really appreciate your perspective and the work you are doing. It’s really important. Oneness as instructed by Christ is vital. It has been on my heart lately. I am also grateful to hear your words as a mother whom God sent one son of African descent.

Excellent episode! Conlon was on point. As a musician, I really appreciate hearing how music affects others the same way it does me in a religious/spiritual context. My most spiritual experiences have been through the Spirit communing with me through music. Conlon answered the race/priesthood questions extremely well. Great back and forth between you both on that subject. Jeff this may be your best episode yet. Bravo

Loved the conversation! Marvin Perkins gives an amazing message on Race and the Priesthood. You should have him on! Uses the Bible and Book of Mormon to discuss the topic in a thorough manner. Completely changed my perspective on the topic for the better.

Thank you, Brother Bonner and Pastor Jeff! 🕊

I love that you interviewed Conlon Bonner! He and his family is amazing and lovely!

Great conversation. Loved what Conlon said about proxy work.

One of the most striking eschatological images employed in the Qur'an is that of the black faces of sinners in Hell and, conversely, the white faces of the inhabitants of Paradise: "On that day when faces will be white or black" The Qur’an, also speaks of the day of judgment as “the day when some faces will be white and some faces will be black” (3:106). This could be taken as a reference to purity and righteousness on the one hand and impurity and wickedness on the other, or to salvation and damnation, but certainly not to race, since Islam has always been reasonably color-blind. Modern Arabic still uses the idiom sawwada wajhuhu to describe the act of discrediting, dishonoring, or disgracing a person, but its literal meaning is “to blacken the face” of someone. The curse was not a darkness of skin it was to be “cut off from the presence of the Lord.”

I really liked the book Last Laborers as a meditation on race and the priesthood. The author (who is black) points out that the no one deserves the priesthood. It is the Lord's to distribute as He wills.

If you want to learn a lot more about the church policy on the blacks, listen to the podcast "Church History Matters" and look up episodes on race in the church. There are 6 or 7 episodes. They give a very thorough background information that helps understand this whole issue. Joseph Smith gave blacks the priesthood and didn't hold back on blessings for them. The church was unfolding and the culture at the time of Brigham Young was very different than today. Prophets aren't perfect, they aren't infallible. Very good podcast today. 😊

Great interview. Conlon did a great job explaining himself and that is possibly all that can be said, I just wish some harder questions can me asked sometimes even if its not intended to defeat the other.

Loved this! Rock of Ages in in the LDS hymnbook #111. Praise God, from whom all blessings flow #242. Also, Amazing Grace will be in the new hymnbook, among others. Can't wait to see what was added. Father Abraham is a song we sing at Girls Camp. Jesus Loves the little Children, a version (tune) of it is in the hymnbook #307.

I loved this one so much. Thank you both for the wonderful conversation.

I love and respect you both. I appreciate hearing your perspectives and the friendship you have developed. Thank you for sharing

While the Curse of Cain isn’t considered doctrine now, it was in the 1950s. When pressured about the priesthood bad the first presidency at the time responded: “From the days of the Prophet Joseph even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the N***** are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel.“(First Presidency letter to Lowry Nelson,1947 July 17. Special Collections & Archives Merrill-Cazier Library Utah State University)

There is nothing that causes me to become as emotionally spiritually touched as this subject, I view this as a loving God and his precious plan, loving us all based on love, nothing but love and honor for those accept the gospel with the puzzle pieces on the side for a later day when all the pieces make sense.

Rock of Ages is in the LDS hymmnal. 😊 My husband served a mission in South Africa and Botswana and it was one of the most popular hymns where he served!

Little correction over the "curse of Cain", it was a teaching which originated in the late 1700's, and got popularized in the mid 1800's. Many converts brought this teaching when coverted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The teaching got popular because of the increasing conflict between pro-slavery and black emancipation movements.

Thank you Conlon, I loved your analogy of the puzzle, and your faith!

Such a great conversation! I HIGHLY recommend listening to the podcast “Church History Matters” where they dive into this topic in great detail. It is highly educational.

Conlon is amazing! What an amazing example of Jesus Christ!

Beautiful, beautiful interview! Thank you, both!

Thanks Jeff! I enjoyed this upload. :>)

Great conversation!

Wonderful discussion. The priesthood ban was and continues to be troubling but the Spirit can still penetrate one’s heart and if not bring total understanding it can speak peace. I think having epistemic humility and waiting on the Lord for answers that may not come in this lifetime is crucial.

Yes, we have Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow in the LDS hymnbook with those words. And Father Abraham was sung at many an LDS girls camp!

Loved this interview! I would love to see the Bonners perform!

That’s a lesson that can be applied to lots of topics that a person can struggle to understand. What a great guy.

Again because my ancestry includes Elijah Able i would have been included in the Priesthood ban. I just wonder how many of those who created the policy that the policy would have affected them also. Especially with the genealogy work that has been done today, and closely we are related

Love hearing your testimony.

Great video really enjoyed the perspectives to find gentleman talking about a lot of interesting subjects you guys are both awesome

Pure testimony of someone's pure testimony, of Jesus Christ's love for God and to All His children, thank God for you and your family mostly the loving for Jesus Christ and His Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints 🙏 ❤️, thanks again, brethren for the interview,

42:18 I’ve had two conversations in the past week saying, “you want to know where to invest $2,000 right now?” The timing of certain ads is pretty good. Speaking of ads, this video had quite a few.

I was 26 when I met the LDS Missionaries. So for 26 years I was denied all the blessings of God relative to membership in his Church. Granted my life wasn't an official denial by the Church due to who I was. But on the other hand, it was a complete dismissal, including being born into a non religious family. It was like God said, meh, put him over there and leave him in the dark for 26 years. In reflection, it was wise of God because it taught me the difference between light and dark, between the truth and deceit, between the world and salvation. But mostly it taught me the difference between life in myself or in my life as opposed to true life in the living God. As a convert, I can say that people born into an LDS family and the Church, and those who have any degree of personal association such as blacks who were denied the Priesthood, don't know how good they have it or how blessed they are. People need to let go of their grievances, and like President Nelson counseled, "let God prevail". It really is the best counsel.

Thank you for sharing this, for the open conversation. Have helped friends with this who struggle with this subject

When it comes to the priesthood, I feel that there was a great deal of prejudice from outside the church pushing that opinion. It gave those who WANTED slavery yet another reason to hate the church. And it was continued because it was easier to do so. But the real reason is not known. So we just accept that it has changed now.

I appreciate this topic being talked about. I grew up being taught false traditions which I could not reconcile with God not being a respecter of persons, and being taught that God loved all His children. It took a very long time before I could even consider that church leaders could have been wrong about something. I put it on my shelf as something that I couldn’t understand, and I thought it wasn’t important for me to know. I now believe it is important to understand because I still believe, even more strongly now, that God is not a respecter of persons. No way did God take away the priesthood from men because of skin color.

Thank you for this dialogue

Conlon, you’re incredible.

Saludos a la Familia Bonner desde Lima Perú , bendiciones para todos

Fantastic, just fantastic... Love it.

Pastor Jeff thank you for being such an intellect as well as a heart for God.

There's precedent in the Bible for God restricting the priesthood - the tribe of Levi had it exclusively, and the other tribes couldn't use or hold the priesthood.

There were plenty of the hymns and songs you mentioned that I as a lifelong member of the church know. My mother was raised in and out of Methodist churches so maybe that’s why I know them…. But a couple of the hymns he didn’t know are in our hymnal. 😆

Completely off-topic....I see that you are using the RodeCaster Pro II for your podcast, which is an excellent choice! Would you also recommend it for voiceovers and voice acting? On-topic....I know many of the Bonners personally and love them much! Their collective and individual testimonies, whether through their gift of music or spoken at the pulpit, have blessed my life tremendously! Thank you Jeff and Conlon for such a warm and insightful chat! May the Lord continue to bless you both! Jacosta

The Curse of Cain is an idea that was common in the wider Christian community in the US at the time of Brigham Young. Mostly as a justification for black enslavement.

The curse of cain being black skin was a protestant originating idea, Jeff.

Rock of Ages is in the LDS hymnal and it's awesome!

We used "Father Abraham" as a warm up in the BYU marching band when I was in it.

Rock of Ages is in LDS Hymnbook, and Father Abraham is sung in some primaries

Conl.on represented the LDS Church very eloquently. Thank you

It was told us in the mission field in Ethiopia by Elder Sitati that it has something to do with slavery and the ownership of slaves that took away their agency and the complications of that situation. But it seems that it took a long time after for it to be corrected.

25-28 min in: Amen, nothing has been lost after the fact, The Lord will lighten our burdens, The Lord will correct all wrongs, The Lord will wash away with water and burn away with fire our sins and all will be cleansed, even the mistakes of the leaders of His Church, and the mistakes of His people. Our lot is simply to do our best according to our understanding, and to align the desires of our Hearts with The Lords Desires. Thank God for the Atonement. Thank God for repentance. Thank God for Forgiveness. Thank God for His Work.

Great convo.

James Jewel is my favorite. Or just coming to my breath and feeling it come in and out and loving myself being breathed :-)

30:55 wow I've been a member all my life and lived in Utah most of my growing up and i never heard that once

In regards to Brigham Young, I would like to point out that God was often Angry with Moses for his mistakes. Brigham will answer for his mistakes however the Lord will have him answer. Ours is to forgive. Brigham Young and Moses are definitely an apt comparison, considering the Migrations and wanderings they both led, as well as the settlement in a desert mountain valley with a fresh water body connected to extreme salt water body by a river . . . No prophet was ever perfect. Only Christ is perfect.