Unnoticed: You don't know something is there. Undetected: You know something is near but you don't know where. You hear a branch snap. The crackle of lightning. A magical disturbance. Hidden: You know where something is but you can't see it. A creature is invisible. A creature ducks behind cover. Concealed: You know something is there, but it's difficult to see. A creature lurks in dim light or mist.

I enjoyed your review. I feel like you highlighted strengths of the system and showed the importance of not assuming and needing to dive into what terms actually mean. I've found most of the keywords are descriptive and helpful, but there has been the occasional class feat that I've had to read 5 times over to understand why someone would take it and what it does. On your comment regarding Abomination Vaults referring to Bestiary 2 or the Game Master's Guide, that is on purpose. There is the core rulebook which contains everything you need except monsters to run a game. There is also a coreset of books that the designers have said they will freely reference throughout adventures and expect you to either have purchased or look up online on one of the many wikis or apps that contain all of that information. These books are Bestiaries 1-3, Game Master's Guide, Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player's Guide. Anything else will be printed in the book so that you don't need to purchase other materials. This has actually happened a couple of times, such as when monsters from the Agents of Edgewatch adventure path show up in the Night of Gray Death standalone adventure. All of the stat blocks and artwork got reprinted in both books so that you wouldn't have to buy both if you didn't want to. In regard to the stealth rules, I think it may be a misunderstanding of what the ideal case for a character acting stealthily is and how the verbage could use some spicing up. I think the best case for a character sneaking around is unnoticed, then undetected, then hidden and then concealed. Honestly, I think they should have used a word other than hidden for the second lowest tier. I know it matches nicely with the Hide action making you Hidden, but the word Hidden has a lot of other connotations that make it confusing. My group finds the rules useful as they currently are. They give us enough granularity to organize things narratively. We just tend to think of these conditions like this to help us understand them better: 1- Unnoticed: No one knows you're there and no one has a reason to look for you 2- Undetected: No one knows you're there, but they think you might be nearby 3- Hidden: They know you are there, but cannot see you clearly enough to attack you effectively 4- Concealed: They know you are there, and they can see well enough that they will attack you Anyway, I've been playing the system for a little over a year now and have been really enjoying things. Normally, I like systems like the Fate or Cypher system that emphasize more active in the moment decisions. I've found this system to be a sturdy set of mechanics that make for an enjoyable gaming time and really let our homebrew, pulp fiction narratives come to life.

I just convinced my group to switch to Pathfinder 2E from 5E D&D. We just had our session zero last Tuesday and they all said that they wished they would have switched sooner! Great to hear a fellow GMs thoughts after running the game for a year. Thank you!

Been playing PF2e for three weeks now and loving it. I appreciate your section on traps. I had no idea they worked that way and it got me very excited to use them in a game in the future. I love the idea of a trap like in your water example that builds tension rather than just a damage penalty for not looking for or spotting it.

Great video! You really get into what makes Pathfinder 2e what it is. I too find Paizo's APs 'just brilliant'. Paizo write the best pre-written campaigns in the industry, imho, considerably better than most of 5e's adventures. Which is interesting given plenty of the same writers work on both! I suspect it is to do with their development process and culture. Also agree that the 'illusion of choice' is not the case, the youtuber who started that meme is just plain wrong. A tiny detail: a natural 20 isn't always a critical, to quote the rules directly "If you rolled a 20 on the die (a “natural 20”), your result is one degree of success better than it would be by numbers alone.". So you get an extra success level, which is mostly a critical, but not always.

Yeah the stealth rules are complicated, to the point where even in your explanation you got things a bit mixed up. Hidden is higher up than concealed. You can go from undetected to hidden(and some times to conceal) say you are behind a pillar and an enemy succeed at their perception check. You become hidden to them. If you are in some thick fog, you are concealed. The enemy can see you, but the fog is obscuring you so they can't tell your exact position making it harder to hit you. Both requires a dc 5 flat check to hit you, the biggest difference is 1 you can go from hidden to undetected(but not from conceal to undetected), and 2 the enemy takes a -2 to their ac if you are hidden but not if you are concealed. Also to be exact there's only three conditions to stealth: undetected, hidden, and observed. Unnoticed is just a bonus condition for the gm to be aware of when a player is trying to go through an area with out being notice. So you never really have to think about it outside of does the guard hear the wood creaking under the rogue footsteps. Conceal is a condition separate from stealth but can take the hide action(with no bonus from cover) to become hidden. Great video. I believe the gmg has guides for making creatures, hazards. And items. I've only used the creature builder, but it's real handy

To maintain the granularity of the stealth system, I would use the following: You can have 4 levels of Awareness on a creature or character. That's it. To describe it in the fiction: the first one is zero awareness whatsoever, the second is being aware of the presence but not the space that character or creature occupies, the third one is being aware of the presence and space but you still cannot picture the creature (e.g., you cannot see it, assuming your precise sense is sight), and the fourth one is being fully aware of the exact position and be able to picture it accurately (e.g., you can see it). Then, you can ditch the names and just say "you have NO awarenes of that creature", "you have a zone-awareness of it", or "you have a space-awareness of ot", or "you have full awareness of it", and that's it. You can still use the concealed and invisible conditions as they are, since they don't affect these levels of awareness

I believe they call "Unseen" Unnoticed, at least that's what it says on the Archives of Nethys. Currently for my own games, I've focused on the DCs you're beating when you Seek and Hide. A kobold runs behind a pillar and hides, it will get the benefit of making a target flat-footed but a PC can still walk around the pillar and find it. Something more properly hidden, the player has to Seek(Perception roll) and beat the targets Stealth DC (Stealth skill +10). Same goes for the other way around, an enemy needs to be my players Perception DC. As for why they use 4 stages, I think its because they do that across most rules. There being 4 "stages" of success/failure. You see it in attack rolls and saves, but you also see it in things like social skills. They're big on the "degrees of success" thing.

Something you could've covered (or at least I haven't seen yet) is how Recall Knowledge feels in this system. I'm currently playing through Abom Vaults, we just hit the 4th level of the Keep, and I am on my 3rd character (1 retired/nearly-Ghouled, 1 slain) and he's a Champion with one of the new dedications, Undead Slayer. That dedication lets me recognize undead on sight, gives me 2 lore skills, and a Free Action "Slayer's Identification" which is on initiative, do a recall knowledge on an Undead Creature with a +1 circumstance bonus as it's starting feat/ability. Recall Knowledge is used in 5e, but in PF2e, with specific Lores, you can identify things with easier DC's because of your skills and specific knowledge, which I find super cool. Also, the art has a lot of weird/bobble-headed styles because WotC and Tolkien's estate have such a tight grip on their perception of some of the creature styles. Which isn't a bad thing cause it also led to the Goblins having kind of a Bobblehead, and I honestly really like them in that style. The Halflings are a little... out there though, but can always just describe your character how you want.

Your hiding in the barrel and two guards come into the room: you're unnoticed The guards hear a sound and begin searching the room: you're detected The barrel falls over and you scream a little: you're noticed but still hidden The guards tip the barrel over and you roll out: you're seen You Curse the rogue with a cloak of invisibility for knocking over the barrel and prepare to fight roll initiative

Great video! Switched my games to PF2 from 5e, like a couple ago, and it`s nice to GM this system so far!

Thank you, I had been doubting my plan to go from beginner box to gauntlight as an intro to PF2. Your review/summary has renewed my confidence. Starting next week.

9:20 Couple of notes. A 20 isn't a Crit. You had said that if someone is making their 3rd attack and can only hit on a 20, if they do they would also crit, that is how it would work in 5e. If you are at a -1 for your 3rd attack, roll a Nat 20 getting a total of 19, and your target's AC is 21, you only hit. A Nat 20 only raises the degree of success, by 1 step. You had later said that a DC 5 flat check is 1in4. Its 1 in 5. You fail on a 1-4 meaning that there is a 20% chance to miss.

Great review, interesting and informative. Since you ask for our opinions here is mine. PF2E is currently my favorite to run or play. I find it mostly makes more sense mechanically than any other and I thrive on its complexity. I do find it much easier to find ftf players using 5e, or even PF1E, however. I also agree that there are many great systems, old and new, and each of them offers something unique. I enjoy a variety of games and can't see myself ever settling on "just one best game". And thanks for highlighting Abomination Vaults! I usually homebrew because enjoy a bit more horror than most FRP, but this one sounds like one I would like!

That spine damage is definitely testament to the testing and review process here

I agree on the halfling and gnome front as far as looking kinda like funko pops, but I love the goblins haha.

The description of the Alchemist makes it sound like you didn't play the first edition, but whatever, very nice voice for review, it is calming. Keep at it!

Hi, great review though I wanted to mention as I work on this a lot myself I think the camera that you use for your face and the like is a bit over contrasted and exposed. Easy fix is in obs just go the the device properties and turn them both down a bit and I think you will look a lot better which will help match your awesome mic :) and happy holidays!

Just a comment for the algorithm.

Great review. I miss playing RPGs. So hard to get our group together. At least with minis I only need one other person.

I appreciate your take on this. I've been tempted to try pathfinder so I ordered the Beginner's box. We'll see how my friends react to it... I think I'll enjoy the crunchy mechanics but my friends aren't usually the type to really dig into the nitty gritty of a system so I may only get them to try it off the back of the adventure paths, but that's okay! I still really enjoy other systems including 5E, so having another one to play in a different set of circumstances is perfectly fine by me.

Others have done a good job of explaining how you got the stealth system completely wrong, but I will also note that if somebody is trying to spot you when you're hidden (or undetected), they aren't trying to beat the result of your Stealth check. In Pathfinder 2E, the only time you compare opposing die rolls is for initiative. If you're actively searching for creatures in an area using Seek, you roll against their flat Stealth DC. The Stealth rolls to Hide or Sneak are just to see whether other creatures automatically detect you without using an action.

Just a quick note, a 20 on an attack will not always be a critical. Rolling a natural 20 only increases the degree of success by 1, g.e. if the DC of the AC of the monster you were trying to hit was 34, and after all your modifications the result of the natural 20 was only a 32 which would still be a failure the natural 20 bumps that up to a regular success not a critical success. If you had a normal success result you would increase it to a critical success.

it's crazy to hear you say these look too neat and perfect, which is my complaint about DND art. I think the Wayne Reynolds style is so awesome and charming. Guess that's just me

I ever so slightly disagree with your opinion on stealth. While without context each of the words sound like they explain the same thing, when put next to each other at least I tend to agree with the order Paizo put them in. Unseen and Undetected for instance might sound alike, but once you know that they are different conditions, unseen implies that someone might have detected you in a way aside from sight, maybe they heard you kick a rock for instance and so they know there's someone about but just didn't quite catch where you are. Meanwhile Undetected then implies that they haven't noticed you at all. It is a bit clunky though, and I'm still getting used to it.

Thanks for a nice and thorough review! Even with the confusing parts about stealth, It gave me a good overview of the game since Im looking for a different system from D&D 5E (after some time my group is finding it too shallow). Liking most of PF2 from what I've seen. A bit weary about the character creation (all those feats and the stat allocation feels a little strange) but I guess it will become familiar with practice.

It actually seems they kept most of the core elements from 1E but expanded and tweaked on it, I like this - just seems like they got rid of BAB but the full round action economy still is there. And actually the +10 -10 rule seems very interesting, like an improved version of what they were trying to do with threat and critical range previously and applied universally

Using your third action to strike is a waste of a perfectly good action. Using a feat or raising a shield or even using cover is a better use.

Just started running Agents of Edgewatch a few months ago and I'm a "new" GM. IMO it's much easier to run PF2, especially an AP than it is to run a 5e module (tried to run some 5e several years back and never had a second session). There are definitely some rough patches though like you mentioned with "hidden". For our group that was the alchemist and their potion crafting... I'm still not sure how that works, the player who started as one then switched to a monk and eventually left the game.

great vid, as a dm i use grab just the way you used it. found it more interesting. stealth is really annoying, yes too many words to describe basic stuff.

Great review - sadly my players are wedded to D&D 5th - but after watching this, tempted to ask them to give it a go. Out of curiosity, have you played DCC RPG (Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG) ?

Enjoyed the review.

What Extra's did you buy to run the game? seeing come cards. Did you use any of the pawns?

This was supposed to be a 1 year review, but its done like an initial preview of the book. Reviewing the artwork after 1 year seems pointless. Also, traps don't normally have initiative rolls. They typically take reactions to the PCs actions. Though, more complicated ones that activate each turn would (just to clarify for new people watching).

This seems like a really complicated system frankly, I feel like it would quickly bog down with all the mechanics

3:19 But in a world where you have Mending and Prestidigitation shiny and clean isn't hard to do!

¡Buena reseña!

Maaaaan, if I have to memorize a whole new spell system it better be worth it!

Pathfinder 2nd edition is good, if you like high fantasy gaming, but the Best game is Still Hackmaster 5th edition roleplaying game. Low fantasy, deadly, and Much easyer to learn, Than pathfinder.

I have zero experience with PF2 and have to know: is stealth really that complicated??? The language for them is absolutely terrible. I get they’re going for the video game gradients of detection, but the execution is awful.

Halflings aren't fey related beings, they have never being fey related, those are the Gnomes so your complain about that is pretty out of place.

the skill system of 2e is exactly what i wanted for Pathfinder. that said, it really is the perfect fantasy tabletop for me, so far.