Adding some clarification about Exploit Vulnerability and those pesky skeletons: Skeletons were a bad choice for that example. Sorry, they're just my default bad guy I use in every scenario, but they do affect the mechanics discussed this time! Because they do not have a weakness, you cannot apply Mortal Weakness with Exploit Vulnerability. You will have to use only a Personal Antithesis. And because Personal Antithesis is just that, it is personal, it does NOT apply to all other creatures of the same type. So yes, that Thaumaturge would have to Exploit Vulnerability on each skeleton. Now if they were fighting a pack of Fire Mephits and they succeeded or critically succeeded on Exploit Vulnerability, they would be able to activate cold damage with Mortal Weakness and apply that to each Fire Mephit without having to re-roll Exploit Vulnerability.

I will say i much prefer leaning into the study and magic aspect of Thaumaturge than the kind of meme interpretation of "making things up". I spoke to someone who said their Thaumaturge was some kind of fallen Aasimar who was glimpsing into the fabric of reality itself when they used Esoteric Lore. There a lot of really cool ways to interpret it! I understand why the "making things up" interpretation came about, since its Cha based, but i dont think that was ever the intention.

I've been sitting on a Thaumaturge build for a while: Agnes from Bookkeeping. Bell (debuff) Thaumaturge who is infamous for hunting down legal mistakes. Carries one of those little "ding bells" you see on desks that cam echo forever. Granny ain't putting up with no nonsense! I fully realize I may be the only person amused by this, but I find it hilarious.

Thaumaturge might just be the coolest Martial in the game for me personally. I'm usually a fighter guy, but Thaumaturge strikes a really nice type of fantasy in my head that i just love to explore.

the Thaumaturge has always kind of felt like the folks at Paizo liked the Archivist from D&D 3.5 and thought they could make it better, and i would argue they did. to me the Thaumaturge just feels like the best example of what an "Adventurer" would be. also, any time i think about the class, the scene from the mummy (the good one, not the tom cruise one) where Benny is first confronted by the mummy, and he starts pulling out all the religious symbols on his neck and spout off prayers in the appropriate language.

I always think of thaumaturge as the Vesemir-style knows everything you could possibly know about monsters witcher and the Magus as the badass sword and signs combat type of witcher.

Companions, particularly early on, are incredible. On the ranger especially, they get Hunter's Edge. So you can get double dips on precision, but don't underestimate outwit either. With the train animal skill feat, you should be able to teach them basic actions. Grappling, tripping, shoving, and (with a little handwave to shared languages on a bear lol) demoralize. Outwit is great because it gives bonuses to demoralize and adds an ac buffer if you have them grapple. They are a fantastic bag of tricks and while you can be a good ranger without them, they add way too much fun, strategy and rp potential to ignore.

5:27 But. Hunted Shot or the melee version, is a 2 strike single action, usable against the Hunted Prey. Even in a turn when Hunted Prey is spending 1 action, the Ranger can still make 3 Strikes. Or, 2 strikes and a stride/cover/Demoralize, etc etc etc. So while it does cost an action, when you need to pick a new Hunted Prey, As you said, it is an automatic action. And one, that doesn't actually reduce the nukber of Strikes the Ranger could make, without Hunted Prey. The Thauma, against enemies that lack a suitable innate weakness, Before sympathetic, Also needs to spend 1 action to attempt to exploit Personal Antithesis , per target. Just like the Ranger with Hunted Prey. So. On that front, they both need to spend the action at least once per new target. (Mortal Weakness and Sympathetic are exceptions) The Thauma however, does not gain the Bonus Accuracy from flurry, or the Bonus Strike from Hunted Shot (Strike) So the spent action usually will not be recovered. However, the Thauma generally gains sufficient Bonus Damage to make that worth the action. However, one other note about Exploit (before Breach) Once you know that an enemy has a weakness. You can sometimes skip Exploit. If for example, you know that the weakness is to Silver, or Bludgeoning... If you have that weapon type available, you don't necessarily need to spend actions on exploit. It does have some other benefits. If you succeed, you gain some Recall Knowledge. You use Esoteric, which is always max prof, plus your Charisma if you invest. Likely higher than your other average Intel/Wisdom Lore check. Your Tome implement might benefit your Exploit RK checks. You learn quite a lot from successful Exploits, You can even learn numerical values yo Weaknesses, which, most RK checks won't detail. Breach, let's you bypass a resistance instead. Bonus. So both are good. At low level our Dex Flurry Archer struggled to deal effective damage. They would have dealt more as a Str Melee flurry Ranger. But. Now, with striking and composite and wpn spec in play, They deal scary hits with scary accuracy. Regularly hitting or critting, on 3rd and 4th arrows. Also, their companion is dealing damage, with Agile Flurry (MAP - 2)

My wife and I are playing as a Thaumaturge and Ranger as our first PF2E campaign! We are both having a ton of fun and this video was perfect!

Per usual with these comparison videos I am automatically thinking of how the two could operate within the same party, these together appear to be an occult beast's worst nightmare.

I think the most underspoken aspect of either class is how despite being “point and get ‘em” classes with recall knowledge support potential, is how much your GMs / Bestiary design affects play. Rangers are pretty lacking when it goes to damage types, and if your target is immune to precision, massive oof for that subclass. But generally, for better or worse they get a pretty consistent routine depending on subclass. While ranger works best with a blob of HP to shred, Thaumaturge is most fun with a spicier foe with weaknesses. I kinda wish they had fewer damage types, enemies had more weaknesses, or there were more ways to inflict weaknesses. Another thing interesting about precision ranger and thaumaturge is that since they use scaling bonuses, Strength will matter less and less as you get to higher levels, which I’m kinda mixed on. I mean, that’s true for all martials, but on crits and a larger quantity of hits, that difference is felt more.

skeletons don’t have weaknesses though so thaumaturges can only do the personal antithesis, not mortal weakness, right?

I wonder if we will ever get a new Hunter's Edge for the Ranger.

We have one of each. As DM, imagine my terror, knowing that somewhere around Level 10 ish, the Thauma will be able to share Exploit to the Flurry Ranger, who will be able to share Hunted Prey with the Thauma. Accuracy MAP slowing down your Thauma on 2nd plus strikes? Thank you Flurry Ranger. Thank you.

Amazing comparison! (I want to play a thaumaturge too…) I can imagine a thaumaturge+ranger couple’s end goal to set up shop in a monster infested town and sell implements and train the citizens fighting the encroachers

2:26 Bonus points. A Ranger with an Animal Companion, Shares their Hunted Prey benefit with their Animal. Companion. Bonus Accuracy, or Precision, or Outwit. Not sure if Outwit will fully benefit all Companions, But, bonus AC likely won't hurt.

5:35 Thauma only has 'an easier time against enemies of the same type'... Ie. Zombies, skeletons, werewolves, plants, etc... If they have an innate weakness to exploit Mortal. Exploit personal, is not shared, without sympathetic

Can someone explain "Hunted Shot" to me. Does the target be "Hunted Prey" or not? the description does not say it straight it only speak as "one you Hunt" or "Prey".

12:08 All Day,!!

I believe you misunderstand exploit vulnerability. The part where it applies to all creatures of the same type only applies to creatures that have an in-built weakness. For those that don’t, it’s still a per-enemy action. So you’d need to exploit vulnerability on each individual kobold, not just “all kobolds in general”.

8:00 Imagine a thauma, with Gunslinger accuracy formula , on 'their implement' Bearing in mind they dont even suck with the 'non guns' They just specialized in their guns. Imagine a Thauma with that level of accuracy. Master, at 5th. Ewww.

Due to a certain forced flavor text, if a Thaumaturge puts on a Ring of Truth he's essentially useless for the rest of the campaign, unless if they find some way to remove it. I just wish we had a class like the Thaumaturge, whose only source wasn't that he made it the f*** up. Because it's the literal only reason why I don't like this class, well that and then forcing us to use charisma as our key ability score because of it.

5:35 Thauma only has 'an easier time against enemies of the same type'... Ie. Zombies, skeletons, werewolves, plants, etc... If they have an innate weakness to exploit Mortal. Exploit personal, is not shared, without sympathetic