A game that I think a lot of people overlook when discussing the evolution of orcs is Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall from 1996. The orcs there are portrayed as a noble people that are fighting to have their own country through intrigue, diplomacy, and war when necessary.
@berserkape1014 Жыл бұрын
God, I love that you reference Death of Hellscream. That cut scene alone cemented my love for Orcs as a fantasy race.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
It’s great 😊
@Ofley_Adventures Жыл бұрын
Awesome to see orcs covered in such a complex light. The can be one of the best races to roleplay with. Have a magnificent day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
@nifftbatuff6762 ай бұрын
But orcs weren't to go away because racism?
@SerDerpish Жыл бұрын
After you finish the main pantheon, maybe revisit this series and discuss some of the ancestries from the Lost Omens Character & Ancestry Guides, like Kobolds, Hobgoblins, Iruxi, and Azarketi
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I've gotten this request enough times now that, yes, I will get around to doing an expanded series of additional ancestries. Coming soon(ish).
@brianj.841 Жыл бұрын
Very Klingon-esque, even a bit Romulan. The Klingons too were once enemies. Found this series a bit ago and enjoying binge-watching; very well done.
@miket3373 Жыл бұрын
I really like how you go deep into all aspect of the races when you do a race video, going from their pop culture origin to ingame representation, tribes or clans, history and pantheon, to modern day in the game settings. Thank you for your work realy appreciate your videos and looking forward to see more of them!
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Thanks man, I was especially proud of this one. Hope to keep the quality up for you guys. 🙂
@OmegaWyrm Жыл бұрын
Your story about the history of orcs in fiction finally helped me put something together that has always nagged at me; why orcs are depicted as pig guys in japanese fantasy stuff. I knew that an early version of DnD became fairly popular over there not long after it was released. Orcs in Dragon Quest, Record of Lodoss War, and Final Fantasy are all based on that original concept. So they started from the same place, why did they not evolve in the same way the orc concept did in the west? I'm fairly certain about 2 things, but not their relative importance in this history: 1. Warhammer and subsequently Warcraft simply did not have the impact there that it did in the west 2. Japan kind of doesn't need that version of Orcs, because the visual design space is covered by Oni, and the "noble race of warrior natives" concept is less directly applicable. Not that mainland Japanese culture doesn't have a conflict history with native populations, they absolutely do. But their conceptualization of that history is not directly compatible with ours as presented in the fantasy Orc. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear that the Oni was an influence on the Warhammer Orc.
@spartanpiplup6229 Жыл бұрын
Glad to see more pathfinder channels popping up. Would love to see you do a beginners guide after the gods.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Beginner's guide, meaning how to play?
@spartanpiplup6229 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper sort of, more of the best way new players and gms can get into the game. Best starter adventure paths, trimming down the rules or a walk through of the beginner box. That sor of thing.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
@@spartanpiplup6229 Let me see what I can do along these lines. As you've probably seen, I've tried to keep rules out of my channel, and just focus on lore and background. I also must confess I have never picked up the beginner box. 😅 That said I have been thinking about doing a beginner GM guide, less focused on rules, and more on how to get your party on the same page about stuff and how to tell a great collaborative story.
@DCdabest2 ай бұрын
I can go further on two points here. 1) Warcraft was originally meant to be a Warhammer game. The Kingdom of Azeroth mirrors The Empire pretty closely in unit design. Blizzard couldn't secure the IP from Games Worshop and had to switch to their own original universe. 2) "orcneas" being translated as "evil spirits" is probably more in keeping with the fact that "orcus" as a Latin word was associated with a Latin deity, Orcus, a god of the underworld and of oaths. (An association with oaths and orcs is found again in the Elder Scrolls universe where Malacanth is the patron of Orcs and a god of retribution and vengeance). As oathbreaking is a serious social taboo, and as the Latin cthonic and underworldly deities were steadily infernalised by Christianity; orcus, orcneas and orci were all associated with the "impure spirits" of the Bible that plague humans and tempt them to sin.
@flibbernodgets7018 Жыл бұрын
5:33 the way I heard it, GW contracted Blizzard to make a Warhmmer Fantasy game, but never got back to them. Blizzard was like "well we have all these assets and a game pretty much made, it would be a shame to let it go to waste." Edit: man, you really put that whole cutscene in there! I gotta go watch the Warlords of Draenor one now. I love orcs (and orks) so much!
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Yes I'd heard something similar, but it was largely hearsay and I couldn't find enough supporting evidence. Regardless, if they were contracted, making a bid for the work or just inspired by, the influence is obvious. ;-)
@atreyos94496 ай бұрын
that is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
@JustinBania7 ай бұрын
Man, I feel like I learned so much watching this. I had no idea just how complex and varied the orc societies were in Golarion.
@morgansides2943 ай бұрын
I'm new to Pathfinder and am finding the player book a little overwhelming. Thank you so much for these videos!
@TheMythKeeper3 ай бұрын
Happy to help!
@brianwalsh1339 Жыл бұрын
I was worried you were going to skip over how Games Workshop’s design for the orc is basically how all orcs look now. I’m glad to not be disappointed!
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
No I had to mentioned it because its absolutely true :-)
@Red_Eye_Wonder Жыл бұрын
I would love to see an in depth ancestry video on cyclopean / Ghol-Gan pathfinder lore. You're channel is awesome loving all the pathfinder content. Currently running a shackles/darklands setting in pathfinder 1e.
@blurootz Жыл бұрын
I have watched this video a number of times. I'm am thinking of creating a homebrewed world and this video has given me a lot of inspiration.
@HuevoBendito Жыл бұрын
Oh thank the gods, another Pathfinder channel. Keep up the good work! Channels like yours help spread the word and show others that games other than D&D exist and can also be fun!
@Vattghern_7 ай бұрын
Just like the Elves video, another splendid analysis of the race across time and media. While I prefer the more grounded, realistic D&D Orks, I can't deny the influence Games Workshop had on the archetype. Blizzard is also a nice touch, I was there 3000 years ago when Orcs & Humans came out, we were hooked instantly. By the way, the death of Grom Hellscream cutscene is IMHO Blizzard's major opus (before they sold their souls to Bobby Kotick, a herald of the Burning Legion).
@TheMythKeeper7 ай бұрын
I wrestled with including that whole cut scene, but ultimately figured I had to. Anyone that lived through it knows how much it shaped our collective perception of what an orc is.
@Vattghern_7 ай бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper Yeah, you had to 😊 If you saw it when W3 came out, you still remember the shivers. Even though Blizzard capitalised their "theft" of Games Workshop ideas (Warhammer Fantasy Battle - Warcraft, Warhammer 40,000 - Starcraft), no one can deny that old Blizzard made an amazing setting which can proudly stand on its own feet, especially for the Orks. Their Outland and Azeroth lore is legendary.
@fearrection4465 Жыл бұрын
I always struggle bringing culture to the races in my homebrew, this channel has really helped with that.
@agsilverradio2225 Жыл бұрын
6:42 This cutsceen reminds me of the Devil-Hulk fight, from the game Incredibe Hulk Ultimate Destruction
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised if one inspired the other ;-)
@DaDunge11 ай бұрын
8:30 God that's a good freaking cutscene.
@TheMythKeeper11 ай бұрын
Right!
@DaDunge11 ай бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper It's a shame TTRPGs don't really lend themselves to moments like these.
@TheMythKeeper11 ай бұрын
@@DaDunge I have absolutely had moments at TTRPGs that are as epic as this ;-)
@DaDunge11 ай бұрын
@@TheMythKeeperMaybe I've just been unlucky thus far then.
@shmurblurr1459 Жыл бұрын
Fun fact about Warcraft, you are completely correct. Warcraft and Starcraft were originally going to be Warhammer titles. At the time GW was very tight with their licensing and didn't grant Blizzard the rights, but production had already begun and so rather than scrap concept art they changed the names and story. At least that's the version of the story I've always heard as a former Blizzard fanboy who grew up playing WC2 and 3 and played a decade of World of Warcraft.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I've heard the same story but I couldn't find proof so I didn't mention that in the video.
@shmurblurr1459 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper yeah, it's probably hearsay, but the space Marines look an awful lot like space Marines lol
@shmurblurr1459 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper it's really cool that you read your comments. I would love a video on qlippith or kobolds.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
@@shmurblurr1459 Kobolds are here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bKyXm8RzvanNgIE.html&ab_channel=MythKeeper Also I have a video on Qlippoths coming in a couple months so keep an eye out.
@atreyos94496 ай бұрын
this is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
@greymalkinstonegate72895 ай бұрын
Awesome video. Just recently found you channel. I would like to see you do a video on the leshy ancestry.
@TheMythKeeper5 ай бұрын
I've done it! Check out my "More Ancestries" video (or possible it is called "EVEN More Ancestries"... I forget)
@TheBlazegeo Жыл бұрын
Great video, you go above and beyond giving a background on how the pop view of these ancestries came to be.
@DCM68W Жыл бұрын
Great editing, sound quality, and content: The Mythkeeper has it all for the Pathfinder lorehound. Have to applaud the effort as I continue through this absolute cornucopia.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the nice comment!
@chris51ification Жыл бұрын
Just found your channel, love the content!
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Hey there! Welcome to the channel!
@luciusrex7 ай бұрын
awesome video! thank you
@cernunnos_lives Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your hard work brother. Keep the lore spilling out. I hope Pathfinder 2e video games are on the way. And I hope the writing is going to be good.
@phasestar7787 Жыл бұрын
Imho the Warhammer orcs were also inspired by the Green Men of Mars from Edgar Rice Burroughs
@johnsteiner3417 Жыл бұрын
Bright's take on orcs is the best I've seen.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
This is the hottest take I've ever seen on the internet.
@johnsteiner3417 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper Bright did something I'd love to see more of; that being tell a true story with one extreme exaggeration. In Bright is what the urban fantasy angle. That one orc is a cop who filed his tusks down and is ostracized by LA's orc community was the most unique and interesting I'd seen. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim orcs being a distant second place. Before that was Alien Nation telling the true story of the immigrant experience, but the exaggeration being that they're from space. Then there's District 9 with the true story of refugees in South Africa, except they're also aliens when the real parallel was refugees from Zimbabwe.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
@@johnsteiner3417 - Fair enough, I totally see where you're coming from ;-)
@israelmorales4249 Жыл бұрын
allways a pleasure to hearyou sharing knwledge, thanks!
@lakkakka Жыл бұрын
Maybe it is because I am autistic and am used to getting treated with suspicion, anger or outright hatred just for not being the norm. But I love playing Orcs, dragonborn and tieflings.
@loganswalk8621 Жыл бұрын
A common plot hook I used is one where the party is hired to root out a Orcs in a large forest so that Noble can continue their logging however it's revealed that the Orcs are peaceful only wanting to live in peace and that it was the Noble and their men who struck first. So the players are stuck between a rock and a hard place the Orcs are living peacefully only striking back if threatened meanwhile the Noble's status means if they attack them the repercussions could be great so the party has to pick a side or figure out a alternative to fighting.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Yes! This kind of non-linear story-telling is really effective and makes RPGs more than a game of killing monsters and collecting loot.
@wintersking4290 Жыл бұрын
Blizzard in fact lost a copyright suit with Games workshop over the similarities between Warhammer and Warcraft. Warcraft was originally intended to be a Warhammer game, but games workshop refused them the license leading to the creation of a unique if some what similar franchise.
@atreyos94496 ай бұрын
this is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
@Glumnut Жыл бұрын
Great stuff as always! Love your videos as a newcomer to Pathfinder, a question on Ruul the Thunder and Storm God though, are they one of the newer Gods in Orc culture given the Orcs came from below? Or is that not so much an important thing in their pantheon in regards to the old gods of below and newer ones made above?
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I'll look into this but I think there isn't an official date in which the orcs started to worship their gods, except that I know Zagresh is one of the earliest ones they worshipped. Its probably a safe assumption that Rull was worshipped later, since lightning doesn't occur underground. I would assume that for a nocturnal people who are light sensitive, both fire and lightning is terrifying, so gods like Rull and Sezelerian reflect the fears of the orcs.
@flibbernodgets7018 Жыл бұрын
I know the Vanara have next to nothing, but I think they're neat and I love hearing about them. Also the Orang-Pendek, for obvious reasons.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I am planning to come back to this ancestry series and tackle some other weird ancestries. I've had Suli, Samsaran and Kobolds requested. (Kobolds a lot....)
@rexaxis3450 Жыл бұрын
I love Orcs, in my fantasy worlds i lean into the mutability of Orcs as a race, and from world to world they vary wildly, from pig headed beast men, to human statured Green people. I find the shifting nature of orcs in nedia and story telling compelling in it's own right, like Orcs grow, progress, and change as we do.
@marcusblackwell23728 ай бұрын
You forgot to mention one thing, though being a Pathfinder video, it makes sense: In The Elder Scrolls, Orcs, while still barbaric and somewhat warlike, were toned down to be more analogous to Native Americans but more peaceful, but they were constantly on the move, never settled for long, had bouts of peaceful coexistence, and spoke more normally. Also, question: why is Tolkien's idea of Orcs not only being subservient to an evil being, but also twisted versions of other races?
@TheMythKeeper8 ай бұрын
Great Tolkien question! Because in Tolkien's concept only Illuvatar can create life. So when Morgoth tries to do it, he fails, and he ends up corrupting the elves to create the orcs rather than building them whole-cloth from scratch. Someone will probably note that this idea stems from Tolkien's own catholicism. For more details on Tolkien mythology, I did a video when Rings of Power came out on the SIlmarillion which is not Pathfinder, but totally worth a watch.
@marcusblackwell23728 ай бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper I actually didn't finish the question because I was tired when I wrote it. I meant "why don't we see that concept of orcs in other media?"
@TheMythKeeper8 ай бұрын
@@marcusblackwell2372 - I'm not sure honestly. It's hard to tell why some Tolkien things really stuck around in Fantasy and others fell by the wayside.
@marcusblackwell23728 ай бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper Perhaps because it was meant to be religious symbolism and most Fantasy worlds don't want to alienate their demographics
@Artemisthemp Жыл бұрын
Watching this gives me idea for a orc character
@a.alexander4845 Жыл бұрын
Ah, I love your videos! Thank you for all your effort and commitment making them!
@Josh-ye9ol Жыл бұрын
It still makes me upset pathfinder never seemed to get to letting you play a minotaur. They are my favorite race to play.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Sounds like it’s time to homebrew!
@NeverSeenMyself Жыл бұрын
Great video! Really enjoying these videos so far. Will be waiting for more content!
@a.alexander4845 Жыл бұрын
Btw, will you ever make videos of the factions of Golarion? I’d love to see a video dedicated to the Pathfinder Society and the Grand Lodge of Absalom.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Eventually! I will get to a series on factions in Pathfinder. Definitely want to do a series on the gods next though.
@Turnil321 Жыл бұрын
Orcs are often in alliance with other monstres humanoids (like goblins and trolls) in other fantasy universes. How is this in Pathfinder?
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Same in Pathfinder, and orcs find common cause with goblins, trolls and bugbears and occasionally but less commonly with ogres and hill giants too
@Waaagh40KRed9 ай бұрын
20:57 This guy looks like Ultimate Green Goblin
@TheMythKeeper9 ай бұрын
🤣
@jondoh2226 Жыл бұрын
Man-bear-pig could be a lost ancestor in the evolution of the orc.
@thedamnyankee1 Жыл бұрын
Minor errata. D&D 3.0 was released in 2000.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Hey good catch! You win a no-prize! 2003 was 3.5 release date, sorry for the mistake!
@Jonathan-ic9ef Жыл бұрын
Was The Lord of the Rings really the first appearance of the word "orc" in English? I recall that in the Hobbit there's a passage that referred to larger goblins as orcs. That may have been added in a later edition though.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
You may be right actually, it was probably the Hobbit and not LotR! Regardless, it was definitely Tolkien.
@CeBePuH Жыл бұрын
Are orcs related to the Hulk? There's certainly some familial resemblance
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Hulk is missing the tusks
@CeBePuH Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper That could be from mixing
@RicardoPM777 Жыл бұрын
👏👏👏
@marcussimoes2909 Жыл бұрын
please review pathfinder tales novels
@CraigSteinhoff Жыл бұрын
Kobold! Mek mek! :)
@DCJMS Жыл бұрын
Green really is da best aint it
@RicardoAlmeidatm Жыл бұрын
Warcraft wasn't inspired by warhammer, it is warhammer. The first game was going to be a warhammer game but somehow the brand deal didn't go trough and blizzard just changed the name and shipped it.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I've heard this too, but I can't find enough supporting evidence from reliable sources when I put this together to feel comfortable claiming that.
@atreyos94496 ай бұрын
this is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
@ohthreefiftyone Жыл бұрын
What book is the Kharmaja tribe information from?
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Transparently its been ages now since I made this video, but I strongly suspect it was from here: paizo.com/products/btpy9aue?Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting-Belkzen-Hold-of-the-Orc-Hordes
@ohthreefiftyone Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper Cool, thank you! Your channel has been super helpful as I switch from all homebrew in PF1 to using Golarion in PF2.
@RichardSwan-bj1mc Жыл бұрын
I had a similar question about the Nanut tribe? I can’t find anything about them in the Wiki or the archives. Does this mean there is a whole other level of pathfinder lore for me to discover??
@aaronsalinas3854 Жыл бұрын
They are species if we use correct phrases. Might as well say race
@RickandPenny Жыл бұрын
Once again you need a shield to keep from beating your mic to death with your air.
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Like I said, better in later videos! Sorry!
@andrewwahba5006 Жыл бұрын
Long live the orc
@tomash7349 Жыл бұрын
Don't play 0athfimder, love you man xxx
@ChaosEddy75 Жыл бұрын
Hello, can you tell me which map that is at 0:47 min into the video. Thanks
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
I really wish I knew where I found that ulra-high-res map, but I've not been able to find it in a few years, so whomever initially posted it must have taken it down. I did upload a version of it (slightly lower res because of imgur limits). The elf-gates are marked on this version of the map: imgur.com/gallery/gIguRr4 Hope that's okay!
@ChaosEddy75 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper Thanks.... And your Videos are really very enjoyable to watch.
@atreyos94496 ай бұрын
it's a good video you made, only that saying that warcraft orcs are inspired by fantasy I find it a mistake since its direct inspiration would come from DND and lord of the rings, Sam didier mentioned in an interview that in his team they had fans of DND and lotr, besides that lie that "it was going to be a wh game" is pure bullshit, nothing more than a famous old fake forum of wh fans that gave a superficial opinion without doing a correct investigation of the matter to which thousands of fools and famous fools believed and continue spreading the lie. I say so since most of them are the ones who did not investigate the matter properly and only about 10% of the fandom knows that this argument is wrong.
@TheMythKeeper6 ай бұрын
Crucially though the orcs in Warcraft look stylistically a lot more like WHF orcs than both LotR and D&D orcs though. The green skin and big tusks means they were at least aware of what the folks at Games Workshop were doing. (BTW, I also dont' believe the story that it was originally a WHF game but the license fell through.)
@atreyos94496 ай бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper if you refer stylistically to a mongolian aesthetic with horns and those clothes let me tell you that this is not something unique to wh man, it is free for all and it would be idiotic to assume it even that way, now the fact that they use axes, spears or maces does not make it something wh aesthetically speaking, now do not know but there are images of the orcs of dnd with fangs and the color theme is something absurd to think to begin with.
@CooperativeWaffles Жыл бұрын
Prefer the AD&D Orc reproduction rules.
@thomasrobson6370 Жыл бұрын
Kobolds 🤪
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
Page 30: www.pdf-archive.com/2016/12/06/elysium-nebula-player-guide/ Just something I wrote in college that has kobolds in it.
@thomasrobson6370 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper well I was wanting a video I got like probably three or four Kobold books downloaded from Pathfinder and the third party people they have on their site 🤪
@TheMythKeeper Жыл бұрын
@@thomasrobson6370 😅
@thomasrobson6370 Жыл бұрын
@@TheMythKeeper pathfinder Kobold sources that I have are, AdvancedRaces6KoboldsPFRPGPDF, PathfinderPlayerCompanionKoboldsOfGolarionPFRPGPDF, PathfinderRoleplayingGameAdvancedRaceGuideOGLPDF-Lite-OneFilePerChapter. any how "story telling" videos are better than printed info.
@zombietotseater38942 ай бұрын
Don’t get me wrong, I love the videos, but this getting ridiculous. Orcs are evil and everyone is trying to make them out as Star Trek Orion race with tusks. What’s next? Can I play a Beholder? Kobold sounds interesting.
@TheMythKeeper2 ай бұрын
See, I totally don't feel this way. Orc is a make-believe creature- they can be as evil or not evil as you choose to make them.
@Reaper08 Жыл бұрын
Tolkien's orcs are probably by favorite. In my opinion making orcs as smart and strong as other races defeats the point of them being hordes and using overwhelming numbers in battle. I also think its stupid to have creatures that literally look like demons and relish in causing pain and destruction be "good". Tolkien became uncomfortable with the orcs being completely evil and irredeemable because of his Catholicism but he never actually changed them, just their origins.