Ugh, premieres. :) Looking forward to this one, been considering these for a while.

Ugh. Premieres are such a tease. If you did them after the episode I bet you'd get less grief about them. ;-)

Brake feathering gang AOOH

Did I miss the premiere 😜

Could you please please please elaborate on TRP Spyres? Or Spyres with compression-less housing combo? Or TRP Spykes maybe?

Neil Graham - Been thinking about upgrading my old Avid Speed Dials to Love Levers. Is it worth it? (Saying “yes” gives me an excuse to buy more Paul stuff.)

What's the benefit of the love lever over their CantiLever?

Compressionless housing is the only way to go with mechanical discs. Especially short pull road levers that barely have enough lever throw. Even more so if you use Shimano brifters which have a very short throw. They're actually designed for dual pivot side pull brakes. There are simply very few effective cable discs for road brakes in my opinion, not to mention gravel or loaded touring. I use compressionless on all my cable actuated brakes - discs, v brakes and cantis. Ive had customers who wanted to upgrade to hydros but balked at the high price. I installed compressionless housing and they were plenty happy with the increased power. Cut apart some standard brake housing and you'll see there's a steel coiled wire in it. This acts like a spring and that wastes lever travel. Compressionless housing has linear wires like shifter housing and it's wrapped with Kevlar to resist bursting. NEVER EVER USE shifter housing for brakes! It will burst!

Have you used the trp evo? I run the evo on my enduro but my commuter / lunch ride / bike packer needs new brakes and I’m looking at klampers.

Agreed! Cost 3 times less too.

The levers can also feel soft and spongy if the pads are not set correctly, and one side contacts the rotor way before the other one. I also found that you get much better performance if you change out the stock pads. No need to go with expensive pads, even ancient and cheap Shimano B01S pads are better.

I use TRP Spyres with 7000 105 levers. These are the easiest to adjust disc brakes I have used. I prefer modulation over power and these are fantastic for that. I set the pull so that the pads contact earlier in the lever pull so they feel like my rim brake bikes. This may have to do with them working well with the Shimano levers. I wouldn't use any other disc brake caliper.

They do make a big difference. FWIW Paul actually recommends not using compressionless.

BB7s are fine. Ran them on touring bikes and the stopping power was ok when loaded. Hate replacing pads in them. Finicky to get the spring pads to sit in right sometimes. For a throwaway brake BB7s are great. I expect the Paul’s to last the life over multiple frames however and pad replacement is easier. For a waste of money: SRAM AXS. Would rather splurge on brakes that will last a lifetime rather than AXS and $100 chains.

@@elektrozwist Haha, different targeted buyers? Haha! Good joke! Marketeers in all sorts of business love believing there are suckers born every minute. And it's just so true!! No bike or component makes one more fit or more skilled!! That's up to the rider, the operator and the motor! My rules: "A fool and his money are soon parted". There IS a sucker born every minute! My own quote: "YOU WILL ALWAYS PAY for what you get, one way or another." Be wise with your money. Maybe especially in regards to brakes. YOU'VE earned it. Someone else always wants it.

BB7s are fine for the money. I hate the finicky pad replacement. Spyres are 💩 with certain Shimano brake levers.

They say that as the pad wears you should turn in the pad adjusters rather than the barrel adjuster. That's all I know.

Same! I've got Klampers, Touring Cantis, and Racers on my bikes. Why would you trust anyone else?

Spyres have two pistons but what good are they if they suck? Have had the worst luck with them.

You should check out Paul's video on why they use single-sided clamping. I have Spykes on one bike, and Spyres on another, and they're pretty good...but I don't think they perform as well as the Klampers do.

@@PathLessPedaledTV I am new to the disc brake, would like to hear more how they actually perform compare to each other. What problem did you guy found on the TRP? Maybe a long downhill section in terms of breaking power, exhausted fingers etc

@@ysllsy6624 they just sucked. I could be in the drops applying the brakes and the rear wheel won't stop. Apparently there is some cable pull differences between shimano levers that don't play well with TRPs so that might have been the cause.

​@@PathLessPedaledTV Did you do a bit of research on adjusting Spyres? Did you bin the stock pads that are garbage? Even cheap Shimano B01S pads are way better (and Klampers come with Kool Stop sintered pads, which cost about $20 per wheel). Did you run compressionless housing? (No need to get crazy expensive compressionless housing, the Jagwire Road Pro kit costs $30, you get 3m of compressionless housing, and two great quality cables) I feel like Spyres get a bad rap because of bad pads and user error. You read reviews and they go like this: Spyres are the best, Spyres are the worst, Spyres are the best. You say you can't lock up the rears from the drops, yet I do skids all the time (even when I don't want to) when i'm descending on the hoods. How does that work? 🙃 Spyres are not my favourite brakes, they are not better than Klampers, and they have their issues. But if you can't lock up the rear even from the drops then something is wrong there.

Dude you run Campy, for shure you link bling

Ewww, no way. That box on the handlebars is hideous and takes up too much space. There are excellent cable actuated hydros with all the hydro built into the caliper. Much better solution.

I will never not recommend the Trp Hy/rd , great brakes! Great price/value

agree! also throw in the Yokozuna Ultimo onto list 👍

+1 from me too

Me 3

Ha. I have a video scheduled for Cable Brakes in 2020? in a few days.

I just worry about hydros having a problem on the road or when shipping - not worth it to me. The best technology isn’t always the most practical imho.

Tim Fitzwater 100% agree. Use-case and other stuff matters. My liking hydro isn’t meant as any sort of condemnation of cable brakes- my use case and preferences are my own, and I’d never impose them on someone else. As I said right off the bat: Paul’s brakes are unarguably excellent. They are well made, work well, and are a pleasure to use, work on, and look at. Top notch all the way (and worth every penny).

8 months later TRP Spyres are still no where to be found...meanwhile had to get some Tektros to hold me over.

Wondering how the Klampers function, as in work and feel compared to BB7?

@@jefftoonstra5087 just if they have more stopping power than BB7 and, if yes, why?

Mechanical caliper performance depends greatly on machining tolerances and design strength. Any flex in any part hurts, which is why these are built like a piece of mining equipment and machined with the precision of a Swiss watch. Compared to BB7s, design and construction are on a completely different level.

@@dkessler14 this absolutely makes sense, thanks!

It would be a forever bike if it weren’t a Frankenbike to make videos for the channel.

Path Less Pedaled yeah - it’s your job so a different story - makes sense.

You can pop the pads out from the top. No caliper removal necessary.

just looked at this bike and it looks awfully overpriced. Renegade Expat is cheapet, has Cr-mo frame, better brakes and Tiagra groupset

I concur that is a huge pet peeve of mine!

FFS I was trying to give you guys a view of the brakes.

@@PathLessPedaledTV success! Total bike pr0n.

Pleasing internet pedant fail

I have had crappy experiences with Spyres. Apparently they don't play well with certain Shimano levers.

That’s good to know. I have a SON hub up front and clears the spokes.

I second that question, Russ. You certainly know BB7 very well. They are so similar in design. Are Klampers worth 4x more? (BTW, BB5 are functionally identical, yet even cheaper.)

@@zbigniewandruszkiewicz7703 I'm looking at the TRP Spyke since that one actuates the pads from both sides

@@zbigniewandruszkiewicz7703 The BB7 mountains are the only Avid disc brakes I'd consider. Ive used 3 on MTBs and touring bikes for 2 decades. Its a great caliper for the money. Its very simple , rebuildable, even out in the field. Im using mine with Cane Creek Drop V levers now. They're Good enough to stop safely with heavy touring loads. But I never take chances out on tour. The BB7 road version doesn't have enough power with most levers. Modern brifters just don't pull enough cable. They're designed for rim brakes. Most cheap road cable brakes simply fit the price point on entry level bikes, (very questionable place to 'save cost') they're sub par, compromised and not strong enough to lock the wheel. The BB5s may be functionally the same, but they're cheaper. Therefore compromised, most likely in their materials. YOU ALWAYS PAY for what you get!! I know for a fact BB5s use a much smaller roundish brake pad opposed to the BB7s larger rectangular pads. The BB5 isn't a horrible brake as bad as the cheap stuff you see on many entry level bikes, but it's not a brake suited to very serious riding at all. Most CHEAP (Chinese junk) road discs are put there so manufacturers can sell a bike with disc brakes. MANY road riders simply don't 'need' disc brakes. Riders ought to learn good riding and braking skill, build fitness, proper maintenance and good mechanics to get the best performance out of their equipment. As always, personal responsibility. Be very careful choosing mechanical discs. I could probably count the decent models on one hand. I'm a mechanic. I fix this stuff every day. If you want to get the best out of your mechanicals, use compressionless brake housing, grind the ends square, minimize friction and mind the routing. Take good care of pads, rotor and properly bed them in. BB7s are pretty good but NOTHING beats the power of hydros. I don't like road hydros, specifically hydro brifters due to their complexity, cost and in the field serviceability. But I'll probably build some sort of hydro hybrid set up with Shimano mountain calipers and some non shifter hydro road brake levers eventually. I'm a tinkerer with some special fabrication skills. I'll keep experimenting until I get exactly what I want.

I've owned Spyres and not a fan. The cable pull doesn't match up with some Shimano brifters and they're mushy at best and the stock pads are meh. The single sided Paul's stop more effectively IME.

I swapped out the hy-roads with the paul klampers and the hydro feel of the trps are nice, but the klampers are definitely worth it in terms of ease of use. The hy-rds are an eyesore though!

Totally unreliable from my personal experience. So much frustration with pistons sticking and seal leakage. Powerful when working properly but would look elsewhere.

You turn them and they make the brakes tighter or looser.

It is simply a point you can technically do it. Secondly it depends on speed. And after all you can always adjust your brakes, but the good thing is with those brakes (judging from the video) you can go far when it comes to braking power.

We can get into semantics about braking. I was choosing a concrete outcome people would understand. You come up with a better one 🤷🏽‍♂️

Well, no need to reinvent the wheel. Brake tests usually involve stopping a vehicle from a given speed and measuring the distance. You could do this for your usual, everyday brakes and then compare to the ones you're currently testing. Or include a market gold standard, say Ultegra, and compare against that. Just a thought. GCN have done this when they compared discs and rim brakes in road bikes.

Paul actually recommends using cheap housing and not compressionless.

“Seems” simple. Dreaming up an idea and executing are two different things. They have a video on the Paul channel about why it’s not.

@@frakafrocka Even with TRP Spyres where both pads advance, you do not get doubling of mechanical advantage (MA). In fact, the MA is reduced in half for each pad that moves. Resulting in same MA as single pad calipers.

Niraj Shrestha interesting!!! I don’t think this is true because if you watch a Slow motion video of a mechanical disc brake where only one pad advances you see that when the moving pad hits the rotor the rotor flexes into the other pad. This results in a loss of force because Power is being lost in the flex. So even though cable pull and leverage of all the parts might be same, Clamping the rotor without flexing it in theory should provide more stopping power. Thanks for interesting comment.

@@frakafrocka Here is one way to explain it. Firstly looking at the brake lever, the amount of cable pulled is constant. Secondly at the calipers, the distance that the pads move is also the same (or close to) for both calipers. For eg. lets say the pad moves by 1mm on single pad design. For the dual pad design, the pads would move by 0.5mm each, for a total movement of 1mm. Leverage (or, mechanical advantage) is then simply the cable pull length divided by the pad movement. Sorry for the math involved. But in summary, there is no way to increase leverage without first decreasing the pad movement. If you make the pad movement too small, then it will rub rotors! Hence, for mechanical disc brakes, there is only so much leverage/MA you can have in the system.

@@frakafrocka I think that the amount of energy lost from flexing the rotor is very, very small. Especially if you have the fixed pad set up properly, i.e., close to the rotor, which means there is very little bending anyway.

No. They were absolute garbage with the levers I had and I don’t think it would have worked. Apparently they are not truly compatible with various Shimano levers.

FWIW I run TRP spyres with compressionless housing and 10sp sram rival levers and can bring the back wheel off the ground from the hoods when stopping

Have only used with Shimano and they were 💩.

@@PathLessPedaledTV funny I get great braking on my Spyres with Shimano levers. Regular old cable housing going full length too.

@@sambookbinder4201 forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=136381

😮

I did. I said the Spyres are poop in comparison.

For the Yokos, I used what came with it and the stopping power was awesome. After multiple drive train changes for the channel I picked up some Jagwire compressionless and its not as a good with the Yokos. For the Pauls, they actually recommend NOT using compressionless housing

Changed from Jagwire to Shimano and it is a little bit better. I just want to try a swisstop brake pad and see if it makes a difference. There some voices that say so.