Nice to see Growtac is still around; stumbled across them years ago when they offered a replacement internal shifter mod for Campy that made it index properly with Shimano... was a really novel ideal for Shim-ergo and then I never heard the company name again, until today!

Thanks Russ, really appreciate your thoughts and processes more than most bike channels.

Great video Russ...I've been looking into a cool mech disc setup, and this was helpful

Great work Russ! Your channel just keeps getting better.

lever feel is different because road shifters have considerably worse leverage when actuated from the hoods (you are effectively shortening the lever arm by gripping it higher up, closer to the fulcrum). The equivalent of a flatbar lever can only be found when actuated from the drops position.

Two years and over 9000 miles on my Yokozuna Ultimos and I'm still happy with them. I used the compressionless housing they came with, and that's still on there too.

Just got my pair of the Growtecs to try! Love both other options you reviewed

Very good presentation and editing. Great video 👍

Another fantastic comparison, thank you!

I feel there needs to be an acceptance from the community that viewers on low incomes and outside of European and North American markets this content is aspirational. Essentially Russ is doing his tests and reviews as a proxy in our cases because we may never get the opportunity in person. Keep up the good work Russ!

The Juin GT / Yokozuna Ultimo are the most recent, 4 piston version of those, and they are great!

Wow. I really have enjoyed all the videos you have made that I've had a chance to watch. I've spent around 20 hours of installation and troubleshooting with 12 speed index shifting on my ti-fly X. This included buying and selling many different shifters, cassettes and rear derailleurs and finally going back to 11 speed. Now I've just spent around 10 hours bleeding and re-bleeding new clarks c4 hydraulic brakes to get the pads to fully retract and not rub on the rotors. I've got one brake that is working good but the other brake is not retracting fully and can't figure it out. All that being said I'm thinking about moving to klampers, to friction shifting and to a 2x drivetrain after watching your videos. I'm tired of trying to get hydraulic brakes and index shifting to work. Keep up the good work. Thanks.

Thanks, Russ. Cables and brake performance might be a good topic to discuss further (both with regards to types of cables and types of cable routing).

It would be useful in the future to include a fourth or fifth brake simply as a reference for the 99% of us that haven't used any of the three. Comparing their performance to BB7's or Deores would be very helpful.

Hey Russ - Thank you for doing this one; this is extremely helpful! - _CA from CA_

I really appreciate this comparison as I have considered the Pauls and Yokozuna before, helpful to hear how all 3 options compare to each other. Have you ever considered putting your watercolors on a sticker? No logos or anything just the art? Would be a best seller I’m sure.

Great video! Oh man... The design of those GROWTAC's is so sweet! They'd look very nice on my Hanebrink.

Experiment with different brake pads. I use TRP Spyres and I wish the TRP red semi-metallic pad had a bit more bite. Changing to the Swissstop green organic pads gave me the braking feel that I was looking for. A bit more bite and hard stopping requires a little less effort on the lever. Changing brake pads may provide a bigger difference than changing the calipers.

Interesting to hear that cable disc calipers seem more like they're on/off Russ - I find my BB7's on road levers have superb modulation. I've configured them so that the pads are applied soon after I move the lever, and the tip of the lever will travel over an inch before I'm at full braking power. I find that gives me plenty of control. I've actually got two sets on two drop bar bikes, one with standard cable hosuing (a gravel bike), one with compressionless (drop bar MTB). There's noticeably more feathering on the non-compressionless housing, though I hadn't really thought about it until considering whether they were on/off after watching this video. But you can feather both, simply by controlling how hard you squeeze. I think your weight is a factor with compressionless housing; a very light friend of mine (who was a very keen cyclist and ran a bike manufacturing company) told me she preferred standad housing, but that compressionless was better for some of her significantly heavier colleagues. I'm 80 kg and quite like the feel of both. I wouldn't put it on my gravel bike though, it definitely doesn't need it. I've also been chatting to some friends with a lot of experience of Klampers and BB7s. They're all of the opinion that in a blind test they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. These are all experienced bikepackers, two of them run an adventure cycling shop, and all are excellent mechanics. I've often wondered if the problem that people have with BB7s is Avid's instructions on how to fit them, which simply don't work at all. I found alternative instructions online, after which I've found them to be very easy to setup and to be excellent brakes. Basically, this is what I do. 1. Wind the inner knob all the way in, then back it off 10 clicks (this should put it at its mid-way point). 2. Fit the caliper loosely to the frame, with wheel + disc in place, then wind the outer knob in until the pads grip the disc. 3. Tighten the fixing bolts so the caliper is mounted tight to the frame. 4. Back both pads off a few clicks, until the wheel spins freely without rubbing. I sometimes have to do 3 and 4 a couple of times, but it's rare. A flat rotor is obviously beneficial!

Bought Growtac after watching this review. Wanted a true mechanical for long term serviceability. Growtac came out to be $320, and comes two sets of housings (compressionless and standard), cables, and various end caps. Build quality is top notch - clean edges, smooth and consistent finish, all parts line up perfectly, sharp and clear prints. I like the unique 'sideways arm', which has a very smooth and well-damped action. Modulation is very good for mechanical brakes. I really like how the resistance ramps up smoothly after the brakes engage. Downsides- can't do 1 finger braking, and absolute braking power is not as good as dual piston hydraulics which can cost less.

Thanks for the review!!

I went with Juin Tech F1. Cable actuated hydro calipers - so far so good :) one finger for modulation, two fingers for aggressive braking. Incomparable to mechanical tektro brakes !!!don’t forget to swap cable brake housing with JagWire ! :)

Good review! Thanks!

Thanks for the great information. As a XC mountain biker I have tossed out my hydraulic brakes and have been using BB7's the past two years to avoid the need for bleeds. I have found they have excellent performance if I use a new, modern rotor (I use SRAM Centerlines), if I am very careful to adjust the calipers so that they are flush to the rotor, and like any disc brakes I am good about keeping the rotors clean with alcohol and sanding the pads when setting them up. I've also found it best to keep the rotors and pads together and to replace both together for best results. I have tried compressionless housings and did not find a significant advantage with BB7s. I find them easy to disassemble, clean, and reassemble... and very easy and enjoyable to keep adjusted. At $65 per caliper they are an awesome value as well.

I have been doing a long commute (for me) using three different bikes and to me disc brakes are just so much better than rim. Perhaps I don't have the rim brakes set properly but the amount of control discs offer is very reassuring.

I know Paul doesn't recommend using compression less housing, but it drastically improved my brake feel and power. For context I'm running it with Campy shifters and the specific Campy arm.

I'm pretty much happy with my Juintech F1, though I got hooked with Growtac Equal when browsing for mechanical brakes last year and boy they're pretty rad for mechanical.

My Klampers were great when new and perfectly setup. Also the only brake I've ever had that had parts in the system that melted. This is using the same braking methods and terrain I've used with Spykes and TRP Hylex for years. I went from loving them to being quite underwhelmed. The hex grub screws that are supposed to keep resistance on the pad adjusters are a bit maddening. Not particularly impressed with Klampers after being first in love. This lines uo with friends opinions

Love the channel! What was your experience running compressionless vs standard housing with Klampers?

Excellent video. Thank you!

I know Russ can only test so many brakes, but I’d definitely put TRP HY/RD up there among the best cable actuated brakes. Great modulation & stopping power, uses Shimano M525 pads, providing so MANY pad options and they auto adjust for wear. Also could be easily paired with a Spyre in the rear where there isn’t a need for as much breaking power to save weight & money, while using the same pads.

Rear brakes not working in the winter. I know exactly why that is. Water got into your brake housing. Because of the way disc brakes cables are run along the chain stay it is impossible to prevent water from getting into the housing. This is why all of my commuter bikes will only come with hydraulic disc brakes, unless the brake cable is routed along the seat stay and there are no openings in the housing for water and road debris to get in.

I used Shimano Tourney TX805 disc brake caliper on my gravel bike... very good.

Great video comparison! :)

Been rolling on the JuinTech brakes for the last year. I just used TRP soured again on a cheaper bike, the other day and the difference is crazy. JuinTech’s are amazing, you’ve gotta try them.

Thanks! I'll be going mechanical on my new bikepacking build, whenever that happens :-)

I feel like this is the first places I’ve seen the hybrid brakes strongly recommended. Everywhere else seems to say they add too many complications/reliability issues to be worth it. I think trp spyres are the only ones within my budget

Thanks for the excellent comparison review. I have to admit to being an old Luddite. I had Avid BB7’s on a couple of my commuters years ago, and even they were total overkill. A good set of cantilever rim brakes are so much simpler and provide more than enough braking power for anything but downhill mountain biking. I just don’t see the need for such powerful brakes for all-road type bikes used for recreational purposes on pave and gravel roads. I guess perhaps it gives the industry something new to sell people…

I have the Yokozunas and have been using them without issue for two years. But, now I need to replace the pads and the pad retainer bolt can't be removed without it running into the brake lever arm housing. Does anyone know how to create clearance for the retaining bolt to be removed?

Great overview. Klampers are hard to beat in the touring/bikepacking context IME if they fit your budget. Work great w/ stock pads, easy to set up/adjust, not picky re rotors or cable/housing configs. Have been trouble free for me. The Growtacs may be a potentially compelling alternative for a bit less money...will be interesting to see how they hold up over time/use. Curious what happens, if anything, after the little rubber do-dads inevitably get lost and the calipers are exposed to wet, dirt, sand, et al. Many comments re the TRP Spyres. They came stock on my now heavily modified touring bike. I still run the Spyres on that bike and they can be excellent performers w/ several mods. My success w/ Spyres is a combination of: running w/ Shimano, SwissStop or Jagwire resin pads (stock TRP pads are pretty bad), XT rotors, Jagwire pro housing/cables, and TRP drop levers (which came stock on my bike). So, I concur w/ Russ, the beauty of Klampers (and similar) is that they are awesome in stock form. The Spyres, in contrast, are very, very set up dependent IME. Cheers.

Great video, Russ! I've had the Juin/Yokozuna's for two years now and can't be more pleased. Compared to the BB7s and TRP Spyres I've had, the Juins are a massive upgrade in power, feel, and adjustability. I live near Boulder and the Juins have been excellent on extended descents with no fade or that "oh sh*t" feeling. I looked at the Pauls and felt they would be great but at the time they were out of my budget. The Growtacs are interesting and rather pretty for mechanical disc brakes. Maybe I'll take a look if I grow the quiver again. For now, it's nice to see they get the PLP seal of approval! On the question of mechanical-hybrid versus hydraulic -- for me, it comes down to bike tinkering, ease of maintenance, and not having to purchase more tools. I understand that in terms of sheer performance, hydraulics brakes the way to go. For now, I'm happy and very confident with my Juins and would heartily reccommend them to anyone that wants to upgrade their current mechanical brake setup.

Hey Russ, great choice for a head-to-head. But I miss the whole short pull vs long pull issue here. Lever arm length is going to be a huge factor in comparing these. Each of these caliper is deigned for long or short or someplace in between and bc what leverage each manufacturer designed for is often a bit of mystery with these alternative calipers, it would be great to understand what you got for results using different lever options. We’re you using the same levers for all of them? There are variations in caliper performance between SRAM and Shimano road levers for example and between different Shimano series even, also flat bar levers come in all pull lengths. Bc pull length is sure to be the first and foremost factor in performance, it would be great to know what you were using when you made the comparisons. 👍

As always, you've published an excellent video for enthusiasts who otherwise have no chance to experience these products directly. Comments mentioning the Avid BB7s (that came with my Pugsley) motivate this question: What is the threshold one needs to cross to justify replacing more "common" cable-based disc brakes with one of these? How do popular all-hydraulic disc brake systems compare along the same axes of measurement, especially modulation? I've heard that cable-based disc brakes can pose a maintenance risk for the adventure cyclist unfortunate enough to experience a failure in "the middle of nowhere." (1) Just how likely are such failures? (2) Are there no practical precautions one can take at the onset of an adventure to overcome them in the field? (3) If an otherwise perfect adventure bike comes with all-hydraulic brakes, should they be replaced by cable-based? Some or all of my questions may be answered in other videos. If so, please point me at them by URL.

IME, levers really matter with the Juin R1s. I've run them on two different bikes, one with Gevenalle (Tektro) short-pull levers, and another with Tektro FL-750s (strictly an aesthetic choice!). With the curly bar levers and Yokozuna housing, they're great: strong, good modulation, everything you'd want. With the FL-750s and Jagwire compressionless housing, they pretty much suck: terrible feel, much worse power, just generally unsatisfactory. I put it down to the the unintentional variable mechanical advantage in the levers. I'm sure they'd be better with something like an FL-540. Or use the long-pull version with an SD-7.

I don’t know if I can watch this, my Klampers I ordered in February arrived today

I hope you'll be doing a review of the VO Piolet hanging in the background. I'm building one up now, and hope to have it road (gravel) ready within the next month.

I'm still using BB7 and BB5 brakes and still very reliable.

I wanted the Paul Klampers on a small Marin Larkspur 2, but they don't fit. The Growtac Equals are the ones the fit. I've been happy so far.

changing pads out on the growtac is slightly diff than most because of where they come out, not a single video covering that. I will say, however, this is a GREAT video on comparisons between those 3. since this is a year ago, it would be great to hear how long the pads held up, how easy it was or was not to keep them adjusted on each. carry on.

I had the juin and now have klampes. Juin had big problems of overheating on steep rides. And o ce it starts boiling oil bleeding on the pads. Really scary thing in the hills of tuscany. I find klampers so good, really reliable and husstle free.

***SPYRES WERE NOTE INCLUDED*** because they are rather mediocre brakes depending on what levers you use. I rode them with Shimano 11spd 105 levers and they sucked and took immense hand force to lock up the rear wheel. *****BB7s WERE NOT INCLUDED**** because while they are ok brakes these three are in a different class of their own. If YOUR favorite brake was not mentioned its not because there is a giant conspiracy against you. I have limited time and resources.

I'm still hoping for one more new bike before I can't throw a leg over. It most likely will have disc brakes. Great intro to mechanical discs for me. Another review on lower cost disc stoppers would also be great as many bikes come with them. I have a hard time discarding my ancient dual pivot side pulls and v brakes but the industry keeps pushing new tech.

Durability is why I moved to hydraulic on the gravel bike, as I went through 3 sets of different mechanical callipers which soggy wet uk winters just absolutely trashed, since grit gets in as it’s not a sealed system. The bonus of generally better brakes any way ie power/modulation but it was having kit that lasts.

This is the shootout the mechanical disc people wanted to see!

Hi there my friend. I'm not a commuter. I'm a racer. I'm planning to build a more modern and budget race bike (disc). I have a good one but it is a 2007 model and it's rim brakes. I was looking at the Juin Tech 4P to start with. The idea is to start with this type of disc brakes and gradually go over to a complete hydraulic group set. Do you recommend me the Yoko? Thanks for sharing.. And thanks in advance

Is that a soma grand randonneur you have? How far out is the review? I have been checking out the bike for a while.

keep feathering it Russ!

Thanks for the review, helped me get the Growtacs as an upgrade to the slc Spyre which are okay, but they need to be 100% dialled in for satisfactory braking power (ultegra 11sp shifters + compressionless housing + Swissstop pads). Growtacs certainly more powerful, not hydraulic levels but good enough for what I do. One thing to mention is the thru axel which holds the pads are specific to Growtacs, so although other pads may work, you will always need a Growtac pad thru axel bolt. A bit of a bummer because these should be replaced every so often and not for the life of the caliper. They look awesome in gold btw if that matters. Klampers not an option for me as they are too big, and my heal will strike them, and my frame has internal cabling coming from inside which leads to a bent cable which is not ideal.

Most flat bar levers are v-brake compatible which means they have more cable pull than the average drop bar lever. You can get v-brake compatible drop bar levers if you are running separate gear shifters. If running STI drop bar shifters then you should look at 105 and up as they have more cable pull than standard drop levers. I see no point in using a mechanically operated hydraulic calliper as it just adds complication (and weight) for virtually no benefit. Either use full hydraulic or full cable. Also I hate it when people say you can't feather a brake. You can feather any brake, it's just a matter of getting used to how much pressure you need to apply to the lever. This means that you may need to use the brake for a few weeks to get used to its characteristics. As far as cable brakes go I quite like the TRP Spyres, as they have dual pad actuation and adjustment for wear. They are, however, very fussy about how they're set up.

Did you tried some dual piston mech. Disc?, i've seen one of that but, idk the specs of that thing

Can these calipers be used on MTBs? What is your opinion on the TRP Spyke Calipers? I am planning on getting a pair for my MTB.

I know for the Klampers, you need a short-pull configuration to effectively run them on a drop bar setup.

Avid bb7 on my MTB , work really well

Hey Russ, it'd be sweet if you could do a review of the Shimano br-rs305. These look really great and have a similar design to the growtacs.

I use the Spyre’s C’s that came on my touring bike and like them just fine. They stop just fine even fully loaded, I have no problems modulating them.

wow, didn't know that those crust brakes were rebranded yokozuna's. but yes, this is something that I needed to see and have been waiting for. :) Thanks for this Russ!

Are the hybrid hydro-cables (Juin, Yokozuna, HY-RD, etc) self-centering like full hydros?

Presently using BB7s Note I know what to upgrade to if I ever need to next time! Thanks!

Were the Growtacs only tested with flat bar levers like shown in the video? If so, were they long pull or short pull levers?

Wondering what shimano pads i could use for my growtac equal

Should have a side by side comparison so we can judge the performance of each system versus the cost involved with ownership

Any chance of a review of low cost mechanical disk brakes? Like spyre, shimano sora (rs305)/(r317), avid bb and to compare to these?

I ordered a pair of Growtac equal last week, really curious how they perform! I use Juintec GTs now, and they’re generally great, but I had one instance where the disc completely locked up after a steep long descent. I bled the brakes and replaced the factory hydraulic oil with a mineral oil I know to work well. Since then I didn’t have any problems, but I don’t fully trust them anymore. Hence the Growtacs. The clampers look super solid, but for a fairly light roadbike they’re a bit chunky 🤷‍♂️

How do the sram BB7 or 5 compare to these ?

How about the TRP ones? The Yoku and Paul were pricey here in my country💔💔

With modern rear disc brake callipers being mounted with the cable going up into the body there is an inherrent problem with water ingress for all the systems shown especially in wet climates. It works great for hydraullic systems but IMHO the old way of sending the routing down from the top tube might be better for cable brakes.

Hey Russ, was there any difference in the size of the brake pads? Also were they all both side actuated?

Thank you

Hello, Do mechanical road / gravel transmission lever work with mechanical disk setups ? I have a SRAM Rival 1 but I would like to switch to mechanical brakes. Thanks 🙏

Do both pads move with the growtac? Or is it like standard mechanical brakes where one pad is stationary while the other moves?

How about the Juin-Tech GT-F 4 pistons?

Did you use metal, organic, or semi-organic pads? Also, were the rotors all the same size?

Great vid as usual, something I'm wondering about: whether both pads clamp or just one pad compressing against a static pad. comparing my Spyres (2 moving pads) to my partner's old Hayes CX (single moving pad) I've found the spyres are both easier to adjust (especially with slightly warped rotors) and have more braking power. Does anyone have any thoughts on the two systems?

Some of the off brand names are humorous. Ive seen Cansucc and Suking among others😅

What about the TRP Spyre SLC?

Are Avid bb7 calipers still available? 😊

Apreciate the review. I have Klampers on a Thunderhawk also. My frame is a 1st gen with external routing. Unrelated question: What brand are the silver clunker bars in the video?

This is the comparison I’ve been waiting for I suggest using Avid SD 7 or Ultimate levers to dial in each brake set to make the best comparison

What are your thoughts on TRP Spyre?

Would be nice to know how these compare to BB7 and Spyre. Also, what pads do these use? Are they readily available from several manufacturers in different compounds? Anyway, great content and enjoyable to watch, as always!

I think price also plays a BIG factor. You can get a complete set of growtac or r1's for the price of ONE paul caliper. I really like the klampers but not sure they're worth twice as much

Would the position of your hands relative to the lever improve the braking control on flat levers over drop levers ?{usually on the hoods}

why do you use bar end shifter vs sti shifters?

what about something more affordable like the avid bb7s?

I think with mechanical disc brakes, its less about the calipers and more about everything else, stiffness of the levers, rotors.and pads that work well together.

Hey Russ, What about TRP Hy/Rd?

Does anyone have a less bling recommendation for a mechanical disc brake? I'm just building up a goofy bike and want something simple and inexpensive.

I've been stuck with the TRP Spyres for a long time now because as much as I don't really like them, I can't really see a clear upgrade path right now. The Pauls are too spendy, so that's that. The Yoko's I love for the simplicity of adjustment, but there are too many niggles for me to go for them. I have some reliability concerns for long term touring, mainly regarding the whole "closed system" of the oil (and also possible heat dissipation issues), but I also have a theory that they might not actually be THAT good and it's actually the cable housing that is doing the heavy lifting. I hate the little rubber stopper on the Growtacs, but maybe it's worth overlooking as right now they seem like the best option for me. EDIT: OK, so it looks like the Growtac brakes are just about as spendy as the Pauls.... oh well.

I uhhh run hydraulics most of the time and have had good experiences with avid bb7's too.

How do the Yokozunas do on long descents where you are braking hard and often? Any danger of boiling the fluid?