We understand them, we just don’t think it’s 400$ worth! Optics are for rifles

Listen here, highspeed. I didn't survive 12 tours at the Golden Corral Endless Buffet for you to flag me with your barrel through the screen like that.

We took a shot every time you said "The Vast Majority of People" and now the vast majority of us are drunk AF... LOL!

One of the best things I heard in an older video of yours about “finding the red dot” was comparing it to a mouse on a computer. You don’t look for the cursor on the screen then move it, you look on the screen where you want to click and move the cursor to that point.

Some days I'm absolutely locked in and other days I wonder how I suck so bad while practicing so much.

As someone that has shot irons forever, I recently decided to go with an optic. And yes, some of that reason is because of my aging eyes. But mostly I just wanted to see what it was about. I always said that I target focused with my irons. And I did, but I would also shift my focus during a string of fire occasionally to the sights for realignment. After many many hours of practice and hundreds of draws I decided to take my new optic on my pistol to class. I had no problem “finding my dot” at all upon presentation, but if I lost it during a string of fire I would shift my focus to the optic to “find the dot”. My instructor who is a really cool older retired Marine was watching me knowing it was my first class with the optic. As soon as I “looked for the dot”, he would run right up beside me and in his best Gunny Sergeant Hartman impression screamed right at the side of my face. “I can see your damn eyes shifting focus! Look at the damn target!? Why are you looking at your damn gun!? You’re holding your gun! You know where the hell it is, so stop looking at it! Look at the threat that’s trying to kill you! You’re not holding the enemy. He might move on you and you need to know where he is! So look at the damn target and not your damn gun!!” I yelled “Sir! Yes sir!” Then we had a good laugh. The thing is, you think you’re target focused. But you’d be surprised at how much you’re really not. Especially with a dot.

Agreed - I see it all the time on other folks and sometimes see myself doing it when editing my reviews.

Ben's comment on the referenced IG video/class, "occluding the dot doesn't force shit" hits like a hammer. Covering it can absolutely help, but eyes are still prone to 'focusing' at arms reach on the shiny thing. Definitely an ongoing awareness and accountability challenge, like all sorts of training disciplines.

I felt like I was nodding in agreement the whole video. Thank you for normalizing the struggle. I thought it was just me struggling not being 100% all the time. It’s good to know target focused is something that still has to be worked on/developed by high level shooters. It’s not a “place you arrive at”, it’s continuous development, or the progressive realization of the overall goal. Thanks Ben

Ben, you’re on a roll with these last several vids. Thank you, Sir! 🫡

As a long time sporting clay shooter, I think that trains you to look at the target instead of the gun.

This is awesome. Just got my first red dot for my 43x and never shot one before. Hopefully this helps me not pick up any bad habits with being dot focused. Thanks for the info

To make a long story short, focus on the target and not the dot...you're welcome

I always said “I don’t need that shit” until I got into competitive shooting. After running some dots I saw the benefits. I now have a dot on everything I own. I’ve tested multiple budget friendly dots that were just as good as Holosun imo. Took me a long time to truly understand target focus. Occlusion definitely helped out. Some people just don’t want to learn a new way of shooting. If they truly understood the dot I don’t think anyone would still be running irons. And yeah in a defensive situation you might not get confirmation 2 before firing but you’d have the same thing with irons.

Thanks for these tips. I just got my first dot yesterday (2/25/24). I got a class next Saturday to start understanding how to use a dot. 👍

Ben’s last words “if you want to get good”, this is just as important if you want to stay good.

Wow. This makes so much sense and thanks for putting in this way and so it will always be an ongoing process...

This is probably the single best lesson I learned from taking your class that really opened my eyes. My target transitions got so much faster that day by leading with my eyes to the next target and allowing the dot to follow. My biggest struggle today is not letting the dot over run where it's supposed to go on the target I'm transitioning to.

Ben, you hit the red dot on the Bullseye. I have been shooting a dot for about 18 months. I first was moving with the pistol and dot in focus. Then after some practice I started using the eyes to transition. Thanks for the great video.

Needed to hear this today. And actually answered some questions I've been asking myself

Thanks for the tips. Appreciate you Ben.

Excellent video. Truth.

Fantastic info and truth speaking. It's a constant struggle and always will be.

Very similar to shooting a basketball, throwing a baseball or football. Acquire your target and your body will get whatever it is to it.

One of the main purposes of a RDS is to acquire a quick sight acquisition, while keeping both eyes open, allowing for greater peripheral vision. It goes without saying that greater vision creates for a safer shooting environment. RDS have also been proven to assist in aiding those who have astigmatism. Focus on the target, not the dot. As far as being able to find the red dot in a timely manner, you must train, train, and train some more, until it becomes muscle memory.

Great video! I was shooting really well the other day and it was all because I was focusing on the target instead of the dot. Other days I focus on the dot and I shoot like crap. I need to work on doing the former and stop doing the latter. Your videos are helping!

Been shooting for over a year now, started off the rip with a RDS. Did what you talked about, focusing on the dot on accident. Thru more dry fire I figured it out. I was laser focused on a small object and just presented… didn’t really notice the optic bezels… or the pew…. Or even my hands and the concept “clicked”. I still catch myself wanting to focus on the dot sometimes, however shooting occluded and doing small transitions while conscience about “eyes first THEN head and hands” helps.

Nice dose of brutal honesty for us mere mortal shooters. Thanks again for providing free quality content Ben!

So much truth and information. Appreciate you.

I shot 500 rds today and some of my runs I nailed target focus bust most of them I didn’t. I started being able to tell when my focus shifted and I came home thinking I’m a pile of dogshit at shooting. I’m glad you posted this video today haha both because it’s a slap in the face to hear the truth that this is going to be a life long struggle but also because it means I’m not the only one who sucks ass

Point Shooting skill cannot be overestimated. It helps with any kind of sight or shooting.

Very, very informative. I had no idea I was doing this incorrectly. Thank you for posting this.

Just brilliant!

About 1998, I switched to OPEN for a season and struggled with the dot.....A friend mentioned putting a paster on the front of my C-More. It worked! Our local SWAT guys at the County now train all day long AND qualify with a the dot covered......Good stuff!

I’ve noticed after a good stage, that I didn’t even notice the dot. And the complete opposite after a bad run.

Spot on. Just what I needed to hear over coffee this morning.

Well done. Thank you. I just bought one (tomorrow, retirement check comes tomorrow) and all the videos I watched did not explain MY part in the Red Dot shooting. They did help me choose one though. I would have followed the sight just like you said, and probably would have trained like that also. You helped a lot.

Great video! I have to remind myself constantly to get off the dot and others I train with don’t understand why I’m trying not to stare at the dot

Excellent. After years of shooting irons, the dots certainly have a learning curve. Thanks.

Im really new to Modern Sights so this is really helpful. I have only used Irons and a Fixed Scope before so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about modern sights for my AR

So true - it takes a lot of practice to target focus and bring the dot in between eye and target. A lot of practice !

KZfaq made me watch a foot deodorant commercial before it would let me watch this video. I’m glad the content of the video was worth it. 😂😂😂

Started with a 6. As I got the grip dialed in I prefer the smaller 2 moa dot. No more chasing or looking for the dot.

I've been using one since around 2018. Started with a romeo pro/320 combo. Went back to a glock 19 rmr combo and a g34 w' holosun. I really wanna get my favorite carry gun (CZ-p01) milled for a rmr soon. Thank's for all the info......I'll admit openly it was a big transition from irons to a dot but I can go back and forth fairly well these days. Still learning and trying to target focus always and not slip....when you dot focus you miss at distance at least I do....when moving really bad. Good stuff.....thank you Sir.

phenomenally helpful tips!! thank you

Thanks for the insight, am trying to improve, I'll be working on my focus the next range trip. Leaving a note in the range bag.

I didn’t at first, and then tried the dot occlusion stuff and now I get it.

I watched this thinking this is me. I have been training to not be dot focused (dot covered), and be target focused. I agree, it is such a struggle to be target focused. I will get there. One day at a time. These type videos are a big help.

About a year ago I bought my 1st RED DOT. A Leopold Delta Pro II with a 2.5 m.o.a. I have it on a Taurus GS3 Tactical with a 9 pot muzzle comp and suppressor height sights. The red dot and sights coexist. It took a long time for me to find the dot right away and then once I could then to find and hit a target at all let alone consistently. I have over 1500 rounds through it now and I am doing great with it and LOVE it. You are exactly right about finding the target and looking passed the dot focus while maintaining the dot sight. It took me a long time and I still don't know if I've done it right but, it's effective for me. I see my target, grip and present. At that point I can see the dot, the front sight and, the target all at once. At 21 and 30 feet I can dump 10 rounds now in under 4 seconds ( I know, not the quickest) with a 2 inch grouping on target. I think the coexistence of the dot and iron sights helped me a lot to not only be accurate but also to not only focus on the dot itself and look through the glass not at it!

Not to mention no more short sight radius issues on sub compacts. Irons are okay but dots are great. You have to train with them a lot, though. Dots are not a shortcut past training at all.

For a good while i took the rear sight off my carry gun to get good at front sight focus. After i was at around a 5" circle at 7 yds i put it back.

Scott from The Modern Samurai Project has some of the best advice I’ve seen on red dot pistol shooting.

Well damn done sir. Thanks.

Thanks for explaining. Myself running a delta point pro I’ve learned to just keep the big window in front of the target without having to find the dot cause once it’s in the window I know I can get the hit

Hi Ben, You are absolutely correct, actually being target focused is difficult and i will often score poorly when I shoot with an awareness to target focused shooting, and that doesn't provide the "fast food, instant gratification" that i want, so then i go back to dot focus, but then i'm slow. oh the struggle.....

I have been working on mastering the red dot with both eyes closed.

I took a Designated Marksman course when I was in the Army, and the first thing the instructor drilled into our heads was "don't bring your eyes to the sights, bring the sights to your eyes." Eventually it'll become muscle memory with your chosen weapon, and when you draw down, your eyes will find your sight picture faster and faster each time. I've found the same is true with min and micro pistol red dots.

Ben speaks the Truth. -> This weekend I had "moments" of target focus. Running into position, get a spot, gun catches up, shoot first target THEN move the dot I've "found" onto the next target in that array. So I'm maybe 50/50... working to get better. 🙂.

I like your style of coaching, you got a good positive vibe. I train shotgun shooters, skeet mainly. The hardest thing for most of my students is to disconnect their eyes from the barrel and focus on the target. Your computer mouse analogy is fantastic, Im gonna use it. I like to find my “gamers” in class to help with the same mindset of disconnecting their eyes from barrel to target , just like red dot to target. Keep doing you man!

All good advice. I'm transitioning to red dots on my pistols at the moment as my eyes age and using varifocal specs means I struggle to see irons effectively, or have to have my head in a weird position to do so. The advantages of red dots are manifold, the ability to be target focused while shooting with both eyes open but still have a good clear aiming reference being the primary. But yes, Ben is right, getting that initial presentation correct while maintaining that focus and transitioning from one target to the next to re-present the pistol is HARD and requires lots of practice.

This simply describes something I’ve been struggling to put into words for awhile.

It can be a tough transition after using iron sights for so many years and being taught to focus on the front sight.

The struggle for me is focusing on small spots on the target when transitioning between multiple targets quickly. I think its going to be my biggest focus for a little until it feels comfortable.

Been working on this very thing lately. It's tough after shooting with Irons for so long. For me covering up the optic so I can't see through it has helped the most.

Dude thank you so much for this. It’s like driving a car/riding a bike. Look in the direction you want to go and turn to that direction instead of looking at ground and following the lines on the road. Use the dot in your peripheral vision so to speak but focus on the target.

Straight talk. The struggle is real! LOL.

Outstanding commentary

Adding sights to act as a reference has helped me move the dot back to the subconscious tremendously.

Great points made. Being the realist goes a long way.

It’s because many people who shoot with irons first are used to being completely front sight focused on a fine aiming point, instead of being focused on the target and simply superimposing the dot on top of the target and pulling the trigger without disturbing the gun too much. With enough training and practice, and a ton of dry fire training, you realize it’s just a ton of muscle memory that has to be baked in. A red dot just gives you a faster reference point for fine aiming. When people give up handgun shooting fundamentals in search of pinpoint accuracy with the dot alone, they’ve already misunderstood the assignment. Personally teaching someone from the start how to shoot with a dot before you ever show them how iron sights work is better for them learning and mastering both. At least that’s my experience with shooting with several red dots.

Found your channel my accident a couple days back and have learned more in those couple days than I have in several years of trial and error and classes. Thank you for the great information and concise explanations!

After watching a video you have done before on this very topic I no longer shoot matches or Dry Fire without the dot occluded. I actually shoot better this way and more accurate, for the simple reason I try my best to focus on the target itself. Hard to do as you say, but I still try.

I’ve caught myself focusing on the dot. After decades of focusing on the front sight, it takes lots of practice.

I have a 2.5MOA dot on my SRO and really i use my iron sights as a reference to instantly find my dot if i ever lose it. but 9/10 times ill never lose my dot even from draw and transitions. For newer red dot guys tho iron sights and where your thumbs are pointing will be your best friend

Can definitely relate to everything said when first started shootin with a 507k and realized how wrong i had been doing it for a while when heard of dot occlusion and then it clicked. Still wish someone out there would make a trainer/occludin cover for the 507k but until then tape works and yes it absolutely matters how u use one lol. So much better once somebody trains out of the dot focused approach. Even with rifles as well but never hear anyone talk about it....again thanks Ben keep on doin exactly what you do!

Great Info! I don’t use a red dot but this gives me the heads up when I do. Thanks for your knowledge!!

The other question is whether it's okay to focus on the dot when shooting red dots. The lens and housing can be large enough to be able to see quite a bit of information in the background. There are also only 2 pieces of key information to focus on rather than 3 like when shooting iron sights. Going from convergence to divergence can happen very quickly, so bouncing back and forth between the 2 might also work. I did 2 years of vision therapy because of a brain injury and have been able to learn vision exercises that have helped shooting.

Wow I did not know how to use a red dot! Glad I watched before buying one. Subscribed to your channel 👍

Front sight focus has been my go to for nearly 5 decades. Learning the dot is something new, but I wish these folks who tell me I am doing it wrong would offer a solution. It’s easy to criticize, much harder to provide answers.

Another great video

Great Shirt!!

The only reason I was hesitant to have a optic was the extra space when carrying, that said most say it improves accuracy(not to mention looks) and using my brothers I’m going to put one on my shadow 2 comp

Appreciate the vid. Makes sense.

Coming from shooting stock flat sights on pistols for over 30 years,was a tough transition to a red dot optic. Goes completely opposite of how i was trained to shoot. Took a few times at the range but im more comfortable now. Hopefully i will get just as proficient as i shoot with flat sights

I think I know why I like dots. I spent decades doing instinctive archery, which is all about muscle memory, and target focus, and trusting your subconscious to do "the math" for aiming. With a dot it feels very similar, just with the dot providing verification on the muscle memory.

I was curious so I got a red dot for a range gun to see if I would shoot better. I shoot about the same until my eyes get tired, then I shoot a little better with the red dot. I've been using open sights since 1967 so I prefer them on my carry guns & house gun.

The first time i remember actually being target focused was with an AR at 137yards. I know i was target focused because the only thing i remember from that trip was what the target looked like when the paint chipped and the sound of the steel. I dont even really remember holding the rifle on target or what my sight picture was.

Some of us younger guys who started on dots are closer to being true target focused. I can definitely see why a lot of guys who started on irons are always struggling not to focus on the dot. Especially since many were taught TO focus on the front sight.

Awesome speech! It is even harder with iron sights.

I spent 10 years doing this wrong, and I did it for a few years of nearly daily dry fire. When you popularized this technique a few years back, the first time I taped the dot I wanted to throw my guns in a swamp. Now after some years of occlusion, I still want to throw guns in swamp when I stare at a taped dot, doing this right is simple but not easy.

Thanks bro. Good vid.

I think grip consistency or index is important, it’s like throwing a baseball, you don’t look at the ball. When you get the consistency of draw, grip, keeping both eyes open and focused on target the dot just appears. It took tons of reps but it works for me.

glad to co-witness this.

Hey Ben, thanks for sharing all these videos. I was formally a competitive sporting clays shooter which was 100% target focused shooting. The first thing I always did with any new shotgun was to remove or shave the sights off so that didn't distract me. Now I'm getting into 2-gun shooting and trying to learn my way around shooting pistols fast. My question is, if we have a good index, and good target focus what's even the point of a red dot or sights, especially for the majority of shots that are inside 15 yds? I've watched a lot of your videos and I still haven't exactly figured out what role the dot actually plays in target focused shooting.

Depends on the situation

Well done! Truth born of experience.

Love your brutal honesty and info sir. How do you place a glock in your firing hand. Every time I grab one it seems it's twisting in my hand when I apply pressure with my support hand.. I'm right handed so the sights dip to the left when I apply pressure. I never know if I'm over wrapping or under wrapping with my fingers. I know I'm doing something wrong but could you shed some light on this in a future video?

My transition to red dot's was easy for me, but I have great fundamentals. When I train with a timer I honestly don't remember even seeing the sights, but I still get the hits I want.

Great video. On an unrelated note, I'm working through you and Joel's book, Practical Shooting Training, and wondering in level 3 how much time to add for drawing and reloading from concealment (yes, I shoot IDPA). If you have a suggestion and the time to share, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks for all you are doing for practical shooting.

🙏🏼great video