Secret process to grip: 1. See fast shooters on KZfaq 2. KZfaq how to shoot fast 3. Watch 10 recoil control videos 4. All say the problem is: grip 5. Hyper focus on grip 6. Try at range 7. No success 8. Search more videos. Finds the “secret tip” 9. Repeat steps 5-8 (20 times or so) - using scientific process to isolate the logical variable. 10. Stumble across Ben/hwansik/jerry/yong Lee “I dunno just don’t really do much but hold the gun” 11. Focus on other things like vision 12. Improve 13. Full circle understanding of grip 14. Improve grip now that other fundamentals are aligned (the ACTUAL variables) 15. Feel personally attacked by this comment.

"Free your mind and your ass will follow" applies to an astonishing number of things.

It's me, I am the overthinker, and exactly as you said, I did focus on minute details in hopes that "another simple trick" will fix my grip. At the end of the day I noticed that I shoot better when I don't think at all and just do the thing. It is especially noticeable during stages where I don't have time to consciously control all of the things I thought were important for a proper grip.

Spent the last two days on the range. New to working the Ben Stoeger material. Grip and Vision Focus have been my focus for the last couple weeks. Crushing support hand and specifically look at a specific part of the target. Its not completely at my command yet, but when its there, its so simple. When its not, its very complicated! Stoeger and those associated with him are finding what really matters.

Definitely been in a class where accuracy degrades horribly after the instructor teaches some grip method from another dimension. And then proceeded to encourage an entire class to keep doing it. Weird times in the training world.

Wow, spot on! I remember going home after shooting classes, and being exhausted from the instructor constantly saying “grip harder” and then my shooting got worse. Ben makes so much more sense than any instructor I’ve had, brilliant!

Indeed. I’ve allowed myself to go down this bottomless pit several times. Thanks for the thoughts on the issue.

It’s the same as any hobby or sport. The world is full of dudes that want an analyzed, engineered solution to a human problem-and full of secret sauce methods (to buy or sell). It’s why the signal-to-noise ratio on forums is so insane. They want someone to tell them “70/30, crush grip, pinky pressure, and gas pedal the support thumb.“ That way, they can shortcut past all the expensive, time-consuming, ammo-burning experience of shooting enough to find and burn in their best grip. Why train to find YOUR grip when someone else can describe “THE” grip so simply? It’s like a golf swing. Technical perfection isn’t a realistic goal-repetitive consistency is. It is a marketable goal, but not a real one. If your golf swing is technically imperfect, but perfectly repeatable over thousands of thoughtful repetitions, then you can control where the ball goes.

I have been training three things over the past 3 months, grip, trigger isolation, recoil control. I have made better gains in these months than 4 years of training.

In other words…, “learn the way, then forget the way, then find your own way”. Thanks coach👊🏼

When I stopped thinking I had to hold it extra tight to control the recoil and let things move more fluid and relaxed things improved greatly and the dot would reset super consistent.

this is helpful. it might have been even more helpful if i had heard it when i first started shooting and was trying something new every single week looking for the key that would fix everything.

Soooooo, I, in fact, DON'T need to spend countless hours researching the Master Grip on KZfaq. All of the grip talk and technique reminds me of the first time as a kid hearing tales of the "mythical" G Spot or thinking your parents had it all figured out when they raised you. Thank you for this. Very refreshing take. Instantly make ls my next range trip more relaxing.

just starting out and grip is immediately a wall for me to break through. i’ve read and watched everything there is to try and form my own technique but it still changes day to day with what i might be thinking about that day to focus on. So hearing you say that there is no secret and that you just need to work it out for yourself and not think about it too harshly gives me some relief.

Great explanation! It took me a LONG time to realize this!

Ben, these videos are gold. Keep them coming. Much appreciated.

I just learn so much and appreciate the little tips you give. God bless you!

Thank you very much Ben. This, and all of your videos with training tips and philosophies, are really helpful. Stuff like this is gold. I'm grateful.

Very well said!

Great conclusion 👌🏻

This was excellent

Thank you for this video sir!! I'm new and I've never heard this philosophy but I totally understand it now

thank you man, im one of those that picked up lil things here and there and went a whole season overthinking my entire process. your videos help alot.

Best grip video I’ve seen.

This immediately reminded me of the, “Tiger Woods makes golf swing simple” video where it starts with a few tips and then turns into a hundred things to think about.

Not trying to control my recoil in my pistol has absolutely changed everything about the way I shoot

That’s very logic and realistic explanation

I have listened to you on this topic before. I want consistency. The only way you’re going to get that is to find it in live fire. My consistency comes from shooting more and experiencing it. Now my grip is fine. I found out what works best for me. Its a combination of what all of you teach but its geared toward me.

I've been struggling with this for a few months--overthinking all the oppositional schools of thought, that is. Thank you!

I’m glad I came across your KZfaq channel 🤙🏻👍🏻

Great information

Well said and thank you! I was getting tripped up on this and realized I performed better when relaxed and not rushing through the stage...

Your approach is refreshing. No fancy crap just common sense.

Good video thanks! More isn't always more yes sir. Repeatability and consistency seem like the correct method.

consistent, predictable, durable Thanks, Ben!

"It's like trying to explain the color pink to a blind person" THANK YOU Jesus Christ I don't know what your grip feels like, or Vogel's, or Racaza's, because those hands aren't attached to my arms. I've gone down this rabbit hole so many times and at the end of the day what works for me, is doing what works for me. I'll never be at the level of shooting you guys are because that's not my job - I just want to be consistent and proficient.

This video is great info. Don’t over complicate the grip. My support thumb presses into the gun and I’m working on fixing it.

Great video! Thanks! Im a relatively new competitive shooter (2 years) and in my journey this video would have been super helpful right at the beginning. I did find that I needed to work on my grip for 3 things along the way, none of them were recoil control. 1. Consistency (in both draw and transitions. 2. Trigger control, that is not disrupting the sights with other parts of my hand while pulling the trigger 3. Excessive, reactionary pinky pressure when shooting through a string that caused my shots to drop toward 6 oclock the more rounds I fired.

Here's what Im getting from this: 1. Successful shooters grip very differently from one another. 2. Its nigh impossible to communicate the feeling of gripping the pistol to someone else. 3. With any of the reasonable grip methods, consistency is everything. 4. The only way to develop consistency is to paying attention to grip while shooting. Most of my questions are some form of "really though?" Does this advice apply across all skill levels? Assuming consistency, is there a split time that would differentiate between reasonable grip and unreasonable? How would I know if I'm not gripping hard enough? I will try putting all this aside next range trip and shoot only for consistency.

Thanks for this. I have smaller hands and some shoulder injuries that make some suggested grips and stances physically painful. Sometimes you have to adapt to whatever works for you.

Thanks for this video Ben clears lot of things up. I want to have my grip be repeatable and generally the same across all handguns. When you start adding different pressures it’s hard to be consistent. I am having trouble with vision though I can’t really track my shots as I shoot faster.

I just came here to say after months and months of overthinking and trying to find “the right grip” I relaxed my firing hand with about half the pressure than I thought I needed and just clamped my support hand to the side panel then the bullets started going where I was looking… 👀

Gold !

I shoot a p229 in carry optics. When I started to stop trying to stop the recoil of the gun and just getting real consistent with my grip and getting a consistent return to target with my sights my shooting improved

New to shooting: came for the drama stayed for the incredible coaching.

Definitely agree!

This is such a refreshing take on shooting. Stop trying to control the uncontrollable and focus on what is in your control. I love it, I wish this video had been out a couple of years ago before I wasted tons of time and lots of money trying to chase down the perfect gun/grip combination out there because so-and-so on KZfaq said this is the way to go. I was on this 1 1/2 to 2 year long journey of doing that due to various KZfaqrs I watch, and in some cases now it is use to watch. I shot Glocks pretty darn well but the retired Navy Seal or Green Beret I was watching said he switched from Glock to Sig because of this reason or that, so I got rid of my Glock and bought a Sig and found I did not shoot that any better. Then some other KZfaqr said he switched to Wilson Combat from Glock because it was the best out there, and like an idiot I got rid of my Sig and bought a Wilson Combat only to come to the same conclusion. I spent thousands, literally thousands of dollars over that time frame just to find I don’t shoot anything else as good as I shoot a Glock. The same with grip. I’ve tried the Modern Samurai stuff, and others methods and it just made me shoot worse. And then a while back it hit me that many of these KZfaqrs have Patreon supporters who pay them money to buy guns and ammo to test and do videos on, so these guys have to do these videos if they want to continue to receive that money from their supporters. One guy I used to watch, and I won’t say his name, did a video on the Glock 19x when it first came out and he trashed the hell out of it. Then a few years later he did another video on it because his Patreon supporters had been asking to do one, and he did another video on it acting as if it was the first time he was shooting it, and he gave it a really positive review! That’s when I decided I was done with all of this crap and just shoot what I like and how I like. I just wish I had spent all that money on ammo and didn’t get rid of the Glocks I had for years. Live and learn, but, like I said, I wish this video had been out then.

Love how your always cut thru the crap!

You should do a video chatting with a golf pro. Exact same kind of thing, where you try to focus on a single little technique like applying pinky pressure on the grip and thinking it'll change everything and yada yada some nuance

GOLDEN RULES of GRIP TECHNIQUE: 1. get a gun that fits your hand 2. get a grip texture that grips your hand 3. practice until your dot doesn't move

Man this video really speaks to me. The less I think and the more I feel the better I get. I think the issue is that I often don’t know what I’m supposed to feel.

Hearing this takes a lot of weight off my concious lol. seeing all these vids about "the new best grip technique" can be very overwhelming especially when they start talking about isolating specific fingers like you mentioned.

I think being sight focused is a huge part of this too, as that will always give you the idea of too much recoil and over awareness of what the guns doing I’ve slowly started to move away from that and have noticed when focusing on the target and waiting for the gun/sights cross my eyes then shooting I do a lot better and faster then when focusing on the sights and waiting for the target to cross my vision. Also everything you talked about here is true of my experience, been down every rabbit hole with “this is THE thing that’s gonna make me control the gun better”and usually I’ll have a range day or two where I feel good and then it all falls apart and I’m looking for the next thing, I’ve gotten to a point where I had like 6 different techniques I’m constantly switching between and only one that I default to when drawing that I’m trying to get away from as it keeps my slide from locking and sometimes causes malfunctions when I put pressure into the slide. I also tried just mimicking your grip and determined it was even worse for control however after a later reassessment and actually learning about everything that goes into the way you shoot a handgun and testing it with just ten rounds I was sold on your techniques. Just need to train them in now. So as far as what to tech grip wise, I’d say this: Keep it simple, consistent, and tight. Make sure the gun cannot slip from either hand Make sure it fast and easy to form from the draw Make sure it doesn’t put pressure on controls or the slide Don’t focus on the sights or recoil of the gun Focus on the target and taking a shot when then gun returns to your eyes Flex arms and wrists for additional control Stay away from downwards pressure or other anticipations And lastly, remind everyone that your not gonna be a speed demon out of the gate, so take your time focusing on a good consistent grip rather than trying every technique out there to make the gun shoot flat

I really appreciate these videos. Nothing better that starting my day in Ben’s bullshit exclusion zone. Shooting seems to be going through the same change that the martial arts went through in the 90’s and early 2000’s. In the 80’s aside from boxing gyms martial sports were mostly bullshit. Some guy with a special belt would spend a bunch of time training for a fight that happened within the rules and expectations of the instructor. It wasn’t until the UFC started putting different world views into the ring together that reality based approaches to mixed martial arts began to develop. Shooting seems to be on a slower evolution probably because it is more of a fringe pursuit and live two-way ranges don’t lead to long careers for the competitors.

Thank you Sensei.I have been watching your channel 6+months.At the time i was shooting for some time.Thought I was more than a novice.Started watching and absorbing and bang!bang! The lights went on.Now i truely feel i know what i am doing.Simple Ben rule"Follow the concepts "to mention focus on a spot on the target"gold"I am a iron sight shooter and works like magic for me..." The mouse goes where I look.Thank you Ben

Finally someone who talks about grip and don’t over complicate it

I remember in one of your videos you said hold the gun tight enough so it doesn’t move in your hands and lock the wrist stiff enough so the muzzle flip is consistent. Simple yet so damn easy to follow. I believe it was the video with you and Matt pranka

Saw a video from Tu Lam on how to grip, like 6 years ago. Started shooting better and haven’t worried about it since.

Another great video from "The King" 🤣 Thank you for the explanation. Thinking about the grip can defiantly F?1% with you.

Got over my grip today. By staying target focused. 🤙

“Consistency is key…”

I've been exploring the "Active Support System" for my grip. It's a complicated convoluted process of white knuckle pressure and rolling into the grip and pretending to isolate fingers etc. It's nice to know that the "keep it simple stupid" KISS method is better. Im going to apply the KISS to my ASS method now and hopefully my solo time at home will get better. Great video!

Thank God, I came to this conclusion as well. Tried out all sorts of stuff with forcing pressure and hand position but ended up just going back to just holding the gun how it felt right and shooting it. Doesn't even matter since I shoot a heavy chunk shadow 2.

Thanks Ben! Just took a terrible 3 day class on Aiwb & red dot. Has a super secret special grip “the wave”. I started out shooting 10 rds making one hole, ended making 10 scatrered holes. Left on the 3rd day after morning Instruction. Totally disgusted. Sucks when you realize you’ve just been hustled. Back to the drawing board. Have been working on dot torture, been successful at 3 & 5 yards. Working on 7 yd DT up to 45/50. Some friends recommended your practical shooting training book. I ve had some good trainers/ instructors but better than 50 % not so much.

Most instructors don't shoot at a high level and can't teach students how to shoot at a high level. So instead they spend their time talking about grip like there is some kind of secret technique to it.

Agreed - grip is more about a results oriented mindset than some micromanaged dogma . I’ve trained with a few world champs and use EG’s push/pull index finger over the trigger guard grip . I showed them my grip - they were happy with my results and we moved on to higher level game skills . I’m of the mind that the gun should just be incidental to your full body proprioceptive action while shooting. See the target - point your hands and hips at it - a bullet goes where you want it too . Obsessing on the physical gun just creates a pylon in your pathway to scoring .

Hakuna matata. Loosely translated it means “no worries”. 😂 Good stuff as always Ben.

This, 💯

Grip I feel I’ve found a comfortable and repeatable grip. Something I’ve been rabbit holing recently is my arms and wrists. Been working on trying to achieve solid wrist lockout. I’ve found holding the gun out a little further with less bend in my elbows and trying to lock wrists I’ve been able to significantly reduce recoil and my dot is landing almost exactly where I left it. I was seeing all these shooters with what appears to be significant bend in their elbows, I dont completely lock out but I’ve started trying this, when looking back at videos of me shooting its night and day if I hold the gun out a little further and try and tilt my wrists down then flatten the gun by a tiny bend in elbows

3:52 Yes! I’m 39, and have been shooting since I was a child. HOWEVER…. I’m left handed. I have always dug into my pistol when I shot it. But now, with the ambi controls on my H&K VP9 and a CZ P10S, I can’t get the slide to lock back on the last shot. I’ve dug in so much all my life, but only now am I having to deal with controls on the same side as my thumbs haha!

For me, taking this advice at face value, something was missing about keeping my support hand consistently connected. If I could give one simple piece of advice to my past self, I’d say “eliminate gaps” with support hand grip. That means gaps between the hands forward-backward on the gun and also one hand over the other… For me, this is more important than hand high on the back strap. So if that’s worth stating definitively, something about support hand connection also should be stated.

Great video..i prefer a looser grip vs a death grip..

That 'giving the finger nugget' of the other video helps when I mess with the pressure. Can you do a video on how to regrip when you noticed it falls apart to not put some training scars in the basket on the clock? Some metric on how long a grip can be maintained during a string?

Learning trigger press was more impactful on my accuracy than understanding proper grip. Both are necessary, but trigger press.

Found your videos a few days ago, struggling with consistency after a reload and trying to not muscle it down EDIT: The pinky thing is my current *secret tip* hope im close to the 20 soon hahaha

Larry Vickers mentioned that he only worries about accuracy, and so when I dry fire my red dot I just try to keep that dot as still as possible, and that’s how I try to grip at the range. I just don’t even worry at all about recoil, but instead I just worry about accuracy, and for me that took so much pressure off my self conscious mind.

I think the only grip advice that helped was more final position based. First step is “v grip” or put the backstrap high in the meaty “v” of your thumb and index finger. Next step is “hammer grip”, or wrapping the fingers around the grip, like youre holding a hammer. The gun should be an extension of your hand. Third is to point your thumb of your empty off hand towards the target and angle your wrist slightly down. Then being the pistol up to your offhand. That should be the position youre shooting from. Everything else in terms of pressure is preference. Just be consistent and try not to develop habits that are errorprone like applying some amount of pressure in X way. When you have to stitch a target groin to grin, the more complicated you make it, the more errors you will make

Rob Leatham always said something similar. He just says he holds the gun with both hands with reasonable pressure/strength. He doesn't overthink the 30/70 or any of that. He's more interested in the trigger pull and the sights.

For me it’s the whole in flight reset when a slide or the weapons cyclic rate happens faster than the brain can react to the gun firing, people think that can put pace the cyclic rate of a pistol but I honestly don’t think so, cats have a better reaction to timing than humans and a lot of people fall into the category of reaction times if the beep is .3 tenths of a second and a lot of people are at .2 if they are mentally training reaction times, some weapons cycle faster than that, help me try to figure out the correct way to spell this out lol, love you Ben you have been an amazing and integral part of my progression but I’m also tired of hearing people say in flight reset when I don’t believe people can actually outpace the cyclic rate lol great video by the way

For me recoil is gripping tight enough so the gun doesn't move. Wrist stiffness limits flip, but then the arms want to move upwards so a bit of shoulder stiffness stops that. Then slight tension in the elbows brings it all together so it's like a car suspension. The gun just comes back seemingly on its own without me feeling like I'm fighting recoil or having to drive the gun back down during recoil.

I've been completely rethinking grip on a carry gun by adding a serious gas pedal. Normally you can't run something like that on the street but I also have a holster that makes it work. Holster: m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zpeletdjy6_IoqM.html (you only need the first three minutes) Gas pedal: m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iL6piMlmmby6mXk.html I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I’ve been told to use my pinky finger pressure to help with muzzle rise. After a couple strings of fire I decided it was not effective. But I was thinking it was because my pinky was too weak and everyone else’s was strong 😅

I found that too short a trigger reach makes getting a consistent grip hard. Muzzle does weird things unless I really focus on the pull.

It's hard to explain because we are "individual individuals")) You talked about principles/consistency. You invented Doubles Drill. You explained how to use it. What more?))

Do you use equal grip pressure or more with non dominant hand?

Smart/experienced people are less dogmatic across all hobbies. Youll talk to a true guru and it all boils down to "find what works for you and do it consistently." Not just with shooting.

I'm just getting started and so confused. So many tips, tricks, and methods. Looks like I'll just grip and rip and tweak till I'm consistent. $$$$$$$$$$ of ammo. LOL.

👍🏻👍🏻👌

I’ve recognized that I’ve gone down the rabbit hole of trigger press in dryfire. I want to know what elite level shooters actually see. Does the dot move at all on the break? Is there a slight shake? It seems that when I do trigger control at speed there is slight dot movement, not enough to leave the A-Zone at a simulated 25 yards but enough to have me questioning if I am doing it right or just need more reps and I’ll get to the point of effectively no movement. Is this even the right question to ask, does it matter that much? Thanks

Noted…. Still trying to find a comfortable, repeatable grip….. I just want to stop shooting LEFT…..8-9 o’clock

Great points and information. Just curious have you seen how pew view grips the pistol and controls the recoil while getting shots off as fast as he does? If so just wanted to hear your thoughts about it..he has a higher grip on the slide

I've found that different guns require different grip techniques because they're all different shapes/sizes/etc

I find my support hand slipping after an amount of rounds or during a bill drill, I have been trying mason lanes “low grip” on the support hand and it stops the support from slipping or moving, but is a little strange how it takes more of the grip space behind the gun

How about 1 handed? When i was doing the course for my CCW they taught us to hook the thumb and push hard against the side of the gun

I'm about four years into being a shooter, and though I own a long gun, my focus has almost entirely been on pistol (I'm hoping to begin my IDPA journey soon). I do a tremendous amount of dry fire and have learned a lot about how my hands work. But I've begun to develop the belief that most of what helps me shoot well is what I'm doing (or NOT doing) with my firing hand -- NOT my support hand. I've begun to focus more and more on being able to shoot well one-handed (I always try to begin both my dry and live sessions with "weak" hand only -- in my opinion, a particularly important skill to have for defensive shooting!). When I'm shooting with both hands on the gun, I try to focus on not allowing my support hand to f*ck up what my firing hand is doing -- and my firing hand is doing the same thing that it does when I'm shooting one-handed, though of course it can be more relaxed when both hands are on the gun. I think the idea of the support hand is just that -- SUPPORT. I think people are getting far too preoccupied with the support hand. My advice? Spend at least a month just doing one-handed dry fire and live fire. Like me, you may find that your firing hand will tell your support hand what it needs to be doing (or NOT doing!). And I'll double down on the importance of being good with one hand, especially the "weak" hand. I would even say that, until you can shoot well one-handed, you have no business carrying a gun!

i have giant hands and cant figure out a real great way to grip a pistol. My trigger finger hand will eat up the whole grip and second hand never really gets any contact on the frame.

I realized I couldn't manage a two handed grip without overcomplicating it, so I switched to doing one handed only and my accuracy and consistency is night and day compared to before. I know that it's not "right", but I'm just a defensive shooter

When my support hand comes in contact with the g19, There is barely any realestate there. I feel like my support hand isn't doing much. I wear a Large size glove. So not sure if I have stubby fingers or what. I shoot my p365 much better.

In my hobbies, I tend to overthink and overanalyze. It is counterproductive and can make one go mad 😂

I notice you grip the gun very symmetrically and seem to get stability from squeezing all around the grip. I put my dominant wrist more behind the gun and hook the trigger guard with my support index finger. As I understand it, I've defaulted to an old school 80s type grip and foregone the modern style for some reason. I wonder if my technique has fallen out of favor because it prohibits the use of a weapon light or is there another aspect I'm overlooking?