I mean the thing is 95% of all persona fans have never touched persona 1 and/or 2, so they'd never know this in the first place

Basically, the only persona re-use where it's literally the same entity assisting two different people is Nyarlathotep. And he's... not really a persona in a traditional sense.

About there being 2 Nyx in the series:According to the P3 Club Blook, Nyx was originally an alien deity that crashed into Earth and her body was trapped inside the Moon but her psyche remained on Earth. The early living organisms tried to resist Nyx's influence, causing the creation of the collective unconsciousness. So the Nyx in Persona 1, that was created by the collective unconsciousness, is based on the real Nyx that appears in Persona 3. It's kinda like when you have a historical figure reappear as a persona or shadow in the series. But yeah, other than this, everything else you said is correct.

Naoto's final persona might be based on a man but remember that it's design is basically ripped from Rose of Versailles' Oscar, who like Naoto undergoes a hardship with her biological sex interfering with her identity as a man (how she was raised to be) and who ultimately accepts her femininity with pride by the end of it just like Naoto.

The4thSnake, destroying kids misinterpretations since 2006

If Kratos was Ken's persona... You know damn well that kid would be hit by a "BOOOOYYYY" and a slap, in the you-know-what moment! XDE

I thought the novel was considered noncanon due to both how Naoto was potrayed and how her character arc susposedly gets undone. At least that is what I heard from most is the issue.

This, again Snake knocks it out of the park! THANK YOU! People don't seem to understand the concept of Persona and Shadow, because persona is a facade that you project and identify with to the world. Is like saying "No one else can be the quirky extrovert because there was another guy i met 2 year agothat's precicely a quirky extrovert"

Adding onto the Izanagis, Yu can also use Magatsu Izanagi just like Adachi!

Susano-o is also the ultimate Fool Persona in 3

1:32 The Chad Baofu vs. The Virgin Futaba

Its always so refreshing to see someone just call idiots what they are.

What I find worse is that none of these peeps have played or read anything from the wider SMT universe itself, But to sum things up Their are multiple versions of every demon/persona in every game heck some you can encounter as multiple enemies. such as Loki, Isis, Cerberus, AND EVEN NYX can be fought as regular vanilla enemies and even fight small armies of them in some cases. My headcanon reason why the persona's look wildly different from each game is because the users itself personal psyche is imprented onto the Persona which is why Susanno from Persona 4 looks different in Persona 5, but you also got to factor in the Amala Universe which LITERALLY IS SMT SAYING MULTIVERSE IS A THING and the only beings that are consistent are 4th or 5th demensional beings, demons like YHVH, Satan and Lucifer which is why Loki is wildly diffrent from the ORIGINAL OG STORY OF THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE Digital Devil Stories, to SMT Nocturne, to Persona 5. Everything is connected even if they are not in the same timeline, however the Persona timeline is considered 1 giant timeline with divergences due to the stupid spin offs, heck I can go over the ENTIRE SMT timeline for anyone who dosent understand it TLDR Keep making vids like this Snake, Preach the Truth ma dood

The izanagi one seems to be related to how the person was given said persona Instead of fighting your shadow if izanami gave you the gift you seem to inherit some form of izanagi (yu and adachi) because of this even though it isnt shown because namatame becomes a sagiri there is a good chance he too has an izanagi persona

Hey Snake.I have a video recommendation. Talking about retcons! The good and bad about them with examples from a variety of different franchises that you know of.I think some people may not see an issue with retcons,so it would be nice to hear your take on them and why they're problematic, and perhaps if there are any examples in which the retcon was a positive change.

holy shit i FEEL the passive-aggressiveness in this video lmao. good video dude!

You missed that Eros is also another male Persona used by a female character.

Most aren't but the final bosses, like Nyarlathotep, Nyx, Chronos, Izanami, Hi-no-Kagutsuchi, Enlil & Demiurge, are implied to be the real gods.

The fact this page now covers 2 of my fav series MK and Persona ...I'm never leaving

purse owner

To anyone who wants Persona to not be reused. Try looking for male or female detectives in history and find two with stories that are practically identical, now try to do that a second time. Repeat this with every type of mythological figure. Then make sure each one can fit a specific Arcana and a certain theme, visual and or story details. Once or twice can be plausible, beyond that it down to luck or it impossible.

I'm glad Snake cleared all of this up

Given what happens at the end of _Persona 2_ the first time, it technically *is* correct to say the games after that don't take place in the same universe. That said, yeah, this is a rather silly excuse for that spin-off to not be canon given how the often certain mythological figures have been redesigned and reused in just the _Persona_ part of the _SMT_ series. It's especially true in this case since Tsukuyomi is easily one of the most unknown well-known gods to exist in real world mythology, to the point that it's still debated whether the god was even male or female (or, hell, both or neither). Even if there was somehow a limit on reuse, then it would still be rather easy to picture two different Tsukuyomi running around at once, especially if there's two different Izanagi doing so in Naoto's debut game. (Not that her spin-off story still can't just not be canon now for other reasons, but that's besides the point.)

Incase someone didn't mention this before magetsu izanagi is more like a reverse persona like in persona 2

Wow, I never knew about that. Well, if the Personas that came from the same source had the same design, it would be a completely different story. Also, I used to worry that in Strikers, blind LPers would still name the protagonist Akira Kurusu because one of the major antagonists that the Phantom Thieves go after in Strikers is a CEO named Akira Konoe and it would get confusing, much like the Makoto confusion (Yeah, despite the protagonist is officially named Ren Amamiya, a lot of people still prefer calling him Akira Kurusu, which is why I was worried). But after seeing that you pointed out about how the Makoto confusion is pretty dumb, I'm now not so worried anymore. Also, I'm really hoping that the stuff and plotline of Persona x Detective Naoto would be repurposed for a spin-off Persona game, most likely a Persona 5 Arena game since it would much better fit into that plot. Plus, since Persona 4 Arena introduced a new character who is an Anti-Shadow Weapon, being Labrys, it would be fitting to have another new Anti-Shadow Weapon in there, that being Sousei, a repurposed version for that game with his Persona still being Tsukuyomi which not only symbolize his character, goals and theme, but also serve more as a subtle callback to Persona 4 Arena Ultimax and the outfit I imagine he would hear would be the male school uniform for Shujin, much like how the outfit Labrys wears is the female school uniform for Yasogami. Naoto's design from the novel would be a better fit in that game since she looks like she's become an adult, which she would be during and after P5 since those most likely takes place from 2016 to 2017 and she's known in the Persona universe as the Original Detective Prince, which in P5, Akechi took her place as the Next Detective Prince, which could mean that Naoto might have a role in a future P5 spin-off.

Just been going through vids and came across this one and remembered a pretty interesting talk about Loki's appearance in persona 5 compared to other versions. Basically if you look at Loki's face it kinda looks like he doesn't have a jaw, apparently (I don't remember the exact details) in a mythological tale Loki got into some kind of bet with some dwarfs and after losing was required to take of a bit of his neck or his head. The thing was the dwarf and Loki couldn't agree on what counted as his head or his neck so deciding to split the agreement the dwarf took his jaw. The thing about Personas is that they're based off mankind's collective thoughts and unconsciousness off a figure. But what if said figure had multiple interprations that conflicted or held differences, or they represented a version of the individual during a certain point in their story, like Greek mythology and norse mythology. Another interesting example is Magatsu-Izanagi as it is meant to represent Izanagi before he "washed away the filth from Yomotsu Hirasaka in a failed mission to retrieve his late consort, Izanami". While this interpretation of Personas is complete headcanon and not stated anywhere, it could work to explain certain characters having the same persona and shadow variants being complete different since you *could* make the argument that the persona is taking inspiration from a certain point in its story. Again its pretty much a moot point since ya know this is all headcanon.

What does this say about the flexibility of reusing archetypes for party narratives? Not alot of redesigns are necessary.

Susanoo really picks up the phone for the persona series

Also, in Persona 2 there is Eros used by Lisa, a woman, and Reverse Eros used by Prince Taurus, a man, and they exist in the same game and the same continuity but both use a persona based on the same figure, and I don't think the genders are flipped for one specific persona that appears in the one fight in the whole game when other reverse personas do not do this.

Ok, I’m so glad you mentioned Kanaru from Trinity Souls. Spoilers for trinity souls (I doubt most people care though): In fact, Kanaru has two forms of Astarte. Her true persona, Astarte, whom she awakens to after a deep conversation with Shin (the other characters somehow summon Astarte together during the final battle?). And Ashtoreth, an artificial persona implanted in her by the Maribito in order to control Kanaru. Ashtoreth was what Astarte was called in the Bible and was seen as a false god, so in a way, they re-used the same persona thrice God I love trinity souls but most people brush it off

most of this video makes sense, however certain things don’t. 1) i sort of see mercurius, the p4 and p5 susano-o’s and magatsu-izanagi as being in a similar situation to something like setanta and cu cullhain. same being, but different names and thus counted as different personas. 2) femc gets a female version of orpheus, so the genders do match up there. something like messiah would have been a better example.

I think the fact that Baofu and Futaba both have Prometheus is pretty cool since the Japanese VA for Sojiro is also Bafou’s VA

I have a video idea: have a video about MK characters you will like to see return in MK12 but every character have to be introduced in the NRS era.

I thought most people didn't want to count detective Naoto as canon because it was bad and ignored/ruined Naoto's entire character arc or something

Susanoo has been the Ultimate persona 3 different times. Masao,Yosuke and Yusuke It's really odd

Tell em'!

Funnily enough ATLUS have never said Detective Naoto is non-canon, it’s just fans crying about it not being that good.

So when are Koromaru and Shinjiro getting Ultimate Persona's, oh wait... And yes, I know Persona Q adressed this, one can dream.

Man the persona wiki feels like it's been written by group of Monkeys smashing the keyboard with a rock

Very late to this with the youtube algorithm bringing me here but from what I know of p2 (I have never played it and my knowledge of it sucks so feel free to correct me.) The ending of p2 *SPOILERS* Has a new timeline be born in exchange for all the characters's memories. So in that sense they never had a persona in the first place. I think that this is the reason that character exclusive personas from p1-2 have appeared p3 and onwards as these events never happen in this new timeline so these personas are still available. Your point about the manga makes sense... Except that that could be from a different universe as a persona is shared with another character that didn't have their persona at the time of the new timeline creation. He is the one exception to that rule. In addition usually different media types signify different timelines, AUs,etc. Example: Are we going to consider the Pokemon manga and Pokemon lets go games to be the same universe as they happen at the same time despite both portages being the sole reason team rocket was taken down? No. It doesn't make sense. I think we can safely assume it's a spin off or some sort of AU or the like.

As someone who likes PxDN (and made a Twitter thread about its canonicity and Persona re-use within that you definitely saw), it makes me sad to see PxDN get dunked on over some bullshit info from the wiki.

I mean.. Persona 3 names: mostly greek legends Persona 4 names: mostly japanese legends Persona 5 names: mostly famous thieves both fictional and non fictional.

I'm still calling Makoto Yuki, Makoto. It's not confusing when you have context or when you're using the last name

are people seriously still going on the naoto is trans thing?

MY preference for Naoto's P4 Personas as opposed to the one she got from Detecive Naoto DESPITE the fact I do get the psych stuff (I mean it's Persona after all) is NOT because of gender BUT SIMPLY because I think theyr'e much cooler :)

Everything that happens in each Persona game is thematically relevant to that game, alone. Not even canonical follow-ups are good for the canon, as in the case of P4 (with the theme being "truth") the theme is stretched to just mean figuring out the face of the person we need to punch who's pulling the strings. Persona plots work very well as a framework for a slow-burn narrative, but absolutely not for a brisk story. Because in the case of P4: Ultimax, it feels very underwhelming to have a godly entity be set up and physically beat down in-game in a matter of hours. It completely falls flat, and undermines how hard a struggle it was for the team in their base game. I love Persona as a series on a game-by-game basis, but I completely do not care for their canonical crossover stuff. Their Personas are thematically relevant to their own game, and the cast of each game is so large that the roster is extremely bloated. This then results in every character being stripped of their character and boiled down to a single trait (for the sake of time), which they will aggressively push in every interaction because "that's what the fans want and like about the character." No fan enjoys watching characters they like being flanderized. It doesn't help that all the lame humor is minimal-effort stuff like putting the characters who fulfill the same role in their respective team's dynamic together and have all the comedy be really forced because it's highlighting how dumb the nature of their interactions are. Granted, P4A and P4A:U suffer already from having the plot being a fighting game plot, so everything is already super-contrived to enable one-on-one fights.

.... so personas are closer to Pokemon then um... something else.

based

It'S mInAtO aRiSaTo!!!

So, was the novel any good, though? Asking for myself, since I never read it.

The Makoto and Ren wiki thing is really petty and it's bugged me for as long as I've been a part of the fandom. Just rename the damn articles. There's no denying those names are canon at this point.

Can you make a Video about how Bad Tekken 7 is?

I feel like p4 didnt do a good job at handling naotos issues (them mostly being her wanting to be respected for being a jr female detective in a field dominated by mostly older men) they shouldnt have introduced her as male to begin with, and had the lab being a setup as some mad dr bs its no wonder why people got confused

So it's still not canon then

I just don't like the name Makoto Yuki because it's so generic. I hated the name Akira Kurusu as well.

To be fair, the only reason Naoto isn't a t-boy is because of bad (really really bad) writing.

I think a big difference, that you so pants on headingly miss, is generally same span of time. P4 already has shit writing, so I don't care about there being like two Izanagi's with slightly different names, but apparently 3 Izanagi's are handed out by the gas station chick so, yeah they're the same with slightly different versions due to hope or some bullshit. However two individuals developing the same(?) named Persona who would exist simultaneously is unusual and without a special scenario like Izanagi, can probably be seen as more of a conflicting problem with generally a persona belonging to one person at a time. But what do I know, I'm just a drugged up nerd.

Okay, you're just being a contrarian at this point, NRS LIED to fans, and the closest you came to a truth here, is suggesting that maybe the movie having a lukewarm reception canceled something (There were rumors of a movie skin and kharacter pack involving Reiko, Nitara, and Cole Young, with reports that WB Executives were pushing for a Cole Young appearance in MK12 or 11 DLC) They ended KP2 on a note of "This is a taste of things to come!" and then went radio silent.

I think you miss the point with the Naito persona bit. Symbolically I'd say Naoto's Personas could be representative of a trans narrative, especially with their P4G persona, which isn't even one guy, but representative of all Emperors of Japan. I don't know how that could tie to Naoto except as symbolism about being male. It's not like Naoto is especially nationalistic (in fact they're probably the opposite given how Japanese culture treats them) The others could easily be explained with that character's specific symbolism -- Ken and Nemesis represents his ambition for vengeance, Orpheus for female P3P because she shares most of her symbolism with boy P3P, and Futaba's Prometheus obviously represents the knowledge she bestows the Phantom Thieves. Just my two cents.

Good video but I had to dislike because of how you pronounce Makoto