Hey Eldin! Thanks for the comment and feel free to address me as Brian :). There is certainly a lot of benefit in pursuing more formal training through a masters and I hope you’re enjoying it! Would be interested to hear your thoughts and experience. Especially since I’ve never done it. Cheers and good luck on your career trajectory!

Hey Eldin, I am also a pharmacist and am very interested in pursuing a MHI degree. I'd also love to hear about your thoughts and experience and maybe gain some insight on if this is the right direction for me!

@@xasakura8 It's an eye opening experience so far. I'm learning the basics and I see huge potential in utilizing our drug expertise in the world of Health Informatics (HI). The HI field involves project management, team based environments, and effective delegating, especially if you're planning on working around an EHR. I didn't realize the huge emphasis on project management until I got into it. I'm dying to get into the more abstract and technical side to see if there's a meaningful way to incorporate our PharmD knowledge. Shoot me a message, I'm happy to discuss.

I rarely encounter individuals that fall within the 2nd pathway. Out of curiosity, what caused you to switch into pharmacy?

Thanks for watching!! I’m glad you found the video helpful!

Brian Fung I do have a question! I have noticed an opening for clinical informatics pharmacist with no experience needed. Full time salary range of 49-75k I think they just recently extended up into 82k possibly... But even that compared to a full pharmacist salary is quite a cut. I wouldn't mind if that is only for one year and after you become certified maybe it will go back up into normal pharmacist salary range. Is that what they normally do? Do you think if I do it and become Epic certified in that year I would get a huge bump up? I guess I could always apply elsewhere once I'm certified if the salary doesn't change much.

Sorry for the delayed response! I’m actually going to feature your question on next weeks ask me anything video because I think it’s a good one. In the meantime, a few comments: 1) that is extremely low and not typical for an informatics pharmacist position..... 2) epic certifications don’t typically boost your salary, definitely wouldn’t boost you high enough with a starting salary that low, 3) you could argue that pro/con it could be worth it to do it for a year, get certified, and apply elsewhere. However, that could burn a bridge depending on how you play it. 4) if you even have a remote interest in informatics, I’d suggest interviewing if you could. I believe in periodically interviewing to keep your skills up to date and get a feel for what’s out there. Let me know what you decide - otherwise, more comments next week!

Brian Fung thanks for the response! My plan is currently to apply there and a few other entry level hospital pharmacist roles. I would interview if given a chance and see what they actually offer then consider it based on circumstances and other offers. I look forward to seeing your next video!

Good luck! I hope you get some awesome offers! If you haven't already, I actually had my colleagues answer your question to give a different perspective. They made some fantastic points and I hope you find it helpful! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qJh9e8WfmsWzmH0.html

I just about spit out my water reading 'bathing in forests'! I wish I had the mentality to bike around a foreign country and camp out at random places. I'm slowly trying to bring myself to be more adventurous. A quick way to get some 'informatics' experience is to jump into ASHP SAG on SOPIT. You sign up every April and you work on projects with other informatics peeps. Pretty low commitment. Old school is still king too - I think word of mouth and reputation goes such a long way for sure. Best of luck!

Certainly. Assuming you have the typical knowledge, education, and training of a health informaticist, then you likely could transition to pharmacy informatics as well. The latter would just require more domain expertise in pharmacy that could be learned on the job or acquired via volunteering, shadowing, or internship experiences.

Thank u for information sir, but PGY1 and PGY2 is mandatory ?

It's actually not a requirement, but likely a listed preference for qualifications. PGY-2 will likely get you into an informatics position faster, while no PGY-2 will likely just delay getting into an informatics position.

Thanks for clear information sir

Glad you found it helpful Chinedu! thanks for stopping by!

glad you liked it!

The goal is the become a pharmacist but I want my healthcare informatics degree first.

They certainly do! A large majority of my colleagues in pharmacy informatics are former pharmacy technicians. There's a mix of roles out there and quite a few of them were consulting in EHR implementations. In general, pharmacy informatics isn't heavily covered in health informatics courses, unfortunately. However, whether you're a pharmacist or pharmacy technician, the material is relevant :)

makes sense! Any healthcare profession + informatics is an awesome blend and career choice. Good luck!

DIY > Informatics! I actually wanted to be a carpenter when I was younger - building custom things would have been so awesome.

I think Tony Dao’s podcast is the most comprehensive and diversified resource currently out there for pharmacy informatics. Lots of different perspectives and topics. In regards to formal resources, I wouldn’t say there is a “best”, especially for pharmacy. I think AMIA is the most reputable for formal, academic informatics content. ASHP certification is probably the most geared towards pharmacy informatics, and HIMSS is the most oriented toward technical matters. I think looking at a combination across all three orgs will be helpful in the type of position you’re describing. Good luck!

Hi Karthik! I’ll be completely honest here and say the whole AI/ML/DL space is still quite new to me. I’ve been learning more about it recently and i can add the following comments. 1) based on conversions/discussions with my informatics colleagues from ashp midyear 2018 in December, I will say yes. There were a few of them working directly in this space and utilizing it from a research perspective rather practice. 2) in that same conference, I also noticed that the large majority of informatics pharmacists find it a bit foreign as well and are just beginning to learn more about it. 3) I personally, IMO, think that is one of the next big areas that will have high demand for informatics pharmacists. So short answer: yes!

Yep! You certainly are. There is staffing component with residency so you’ll be well equipped to perform patient care as well. I staffed everywhere in pgy1 and I staffed the ED observation area and centra pharm during pgy2

Hey Yani! You can actually take it as a student, but you’ll miss out on the CE because you’ll need to be licensed for that. However, I did a lot of stuff without CE credit as a student too :). Def something to check out - or CAHIMS!

@@briankfung Thank you Brian for answering, I really appreciate your videos

That sounds like a pretty interesting background, surprised there isn't more interest in a candidate like yourself. What types of positions have you applied to and what setting do you currently work in?

Bill? I think we went to the same pharmacy school! Did you get into informatics?

Hi Belay! I think the ASHP informatics certificate and the CAHIMS/CPHIMS certifications would be most helpful for you to get started with the fundamentals and also incorporate a project. I'll admit I'm not very familiar with the international landscape for pharmacy informatics, but coincidentally, I will very likely be working with international pharmacy organizations very soon to create some formal content! Hope this helps!

It's a difficult decision to go back to school, even if part-time. I might seem a bit hypocritical (because I'm currently doing a part-time MPH), but I don't think a masters in health IT/informatics is needed to get into the field. My thoughts are if you are super gung-ho about it and truly just enjoy learning and want to be the best at your craft, then go for it. If you're just looking to get into clinical informatics - because of your background - then I'd suggest to start applying to informatics-related roles. Most of the individuals I've met in informatics or clinical informatics have zero IT background/training. Technical skills, IMO, are easy to learn - just takes time. Clinical experience, on the other hand, is hard to grasp without truly practicing it. In the 2013 UHC (now Vizient) midyear meeting, the ideal pharmacy informatics candidate is one that comes from pure clinical experience. That resonated with me a lot and I strongly feel that if you have the clinical skills - you can jump into any of these positions and learn the technical parts - on the job. Kind of a long winded answer, but to be more direct. 1) Masters not needed to get into profession - if you're passionate about learning it though - go for it. Doesn't guarantee job. 2) I think clinical informatics is only just beginning - we've done a great job implementing, but now the nation, and the world, needs to work on optimization. 3) I've never heard about healthcare informatics being directed towards female profession, but that doesn't mean anything. Anecdotally, I see more males than females. Hope that helps!

Hey Seayoung! That’s a great question and there are many different ways. May I ask where you are in your journey? Student, pharmacist, resident, etc?

Brian Fung I just finished my first year of pharmacy school.

Hi Olivia! Thanks for following! That's a great question and something I think our pharmacy profession as whole, continually struggles with. It's commonly discussed within the ASHP informatics community. I'll have to admit that I don't have much experience in academia, but I did create the informatics syllabus for students at my PGY2 site. The main resource I used was the Partners in E modules from HIMSS (www.himss.org/partnersine). It's geared specifically towards pharmacy students, so I found it very helpful. However, it's slightly outdated (e.g. terminology) as it was based on the 2006 ACPE standards, but certainly useful in creating some high-level structure for your student. Other than that, there's an example APPE student rotation from ASHP (www.ashp.org/-/media/assets/inpatient-care-practitioner/docs/sicp-informatics-appe-student-rotation.ashx?la=en) and a publication from Brent Fox (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2576428/) that might be useful as well. Personally, the most difficult part in designing a student rotation is creating the practical/hands-on experience. As you know, much of our work is driven by the current projects at our institution, so it may be difficult to find something they could work on that isn't too steep of a learning curve. The main thing I try to do, if I know I have a student coming on board, is to brainstorm some ideas of projects they could work on during their rotation with me and aligning it with any topic discussions that I'd expect them to have during rotation. Hope that helps!

Hi Brian, good pointers! We have awhile to plan, so I'll come up with ideas for bite-sized projects.

best of luck! As a side note, ASHP's SOPIT SAG is working towards developing more content for students interested in informatics. Although there isn't that much content on there now (website is relatively new and we're working towards getting more content uploaded), you could also point your student to this site: www.ashp.org/Pharmacy-Practice/Resource-Centers/Informatics/Students . Let me know how it goes!

Hi Sajida! That's a great question. Do you have an idea of your 5-10 year goal? I usually view things like BCPS or CPHIMS as stepping stones that assist in achieving a goal (e.g. specific position, title, organization). Both are helpful, but depending on your 5-10 year goal, one, both, or none may be the best route

Hi Lenise! Thanks for your questions, sorry it took awhile to respond, this comment slipped through the cracks. I posted a video to your question in this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nKxpl5iHspyomGQ.html check it out and let me know if that helps!

Hm, I’d say it depends on your goals. Formal didactic training through a masters is great, but whether it’s the best option for you is another question. What are you planning on for your next move?

Brian Fung masters degree is extra 30000 and 27 more hours

That is a considerable amount. You don’t necessarily need a masters to get into informatics. Have you already graduated with your pharmD?

Brian Fung no I am actually starting this fall 2019

Brian Fung I appreciate your opinion Brian.

Hey Dami! I would say a strong yes if it wasn’t for the cost. However, the cost of ashp midyear precludes that, but I’d still say yes. I’d say you’d have to be pretty proactive to find the informal and formal networking events to get the biggest bang for your buck - I particularly like PPS as well just to walk around and network with people. Personally, I attend every year because it’s such a great opportunity to network - though, I’ve only paid out of pocket once. Hope that helps!

@@briankfung thank you so much for replying Brian. So, if I don't attend Midyear as you said the cost is really high, what do you recommend I do to get into the pharmacy informatics field coming from retail pharmacy?

that's a very valid question - I think your number 1 priority should be to obtain any type of informatics experience you can get - be it volunteering with an organization (e.g. ASHP, HIMSS, AMIA, APhA) and helping out with any informatics-related projects, familiarizing yourself with informatics jargon and concepts via certifications (e.g. CAHIMS, CPHIMS) and/or free courses (e.g. coursera, udemy, etc), and looking for prn hospital jobs so you can jump into any informatics-opportunities that may be offered down the road at that particular hospital. Informatics is quite project-driven, and thus, 'right time, right place' kind of thing. Another thing to note is that there are two dominant EHR vendors out there right now: Epic & Cerner. Implementations is typically the easiest way to jump into informatics, but many academic medical centers (usually Epic) have already implemented Epic and thus the demand isn't as high anymore. However, Cerner recently made a contract with both DoD and VA to convert all of their systems to Cerner over the next 10+years. This is a huge opportunity and something to consider as an easier route to informatics (e.g. VA jobs, VA connections, etc). Hope that helps!

@@briankfung thank you so much for the info

you're more than welcome! thanks for watching

Hi John! Great question. I actually sent an email to ASHP about your question and their response was as follows: Thank you for contacting ASHP with your inquiry regarding the Pharmacy Informatics Certificate. The program is comprised of two components: 1) Educational Content (18.25 CE hours) 2) OPTIONAL: Practice Exercise (Pharmacy Informatics Project) to receive a professional certificate If you choose to pursue the optional certificate, you are required to documentation summarizing a completed project with proven outcomes that demonstrates understanding and application of knowledge obtained through completion of educational program. This must be a project you have completed, not just proposed. Required uploads: • Complete the project submission form to ensure your submission addresses the required criteria. Upload this document once completed. • Submit a documented outcome or tool that you used, created, or was created as a result of the project. Criteria: • Project name • Primary customer/audience for the project outcome • Sponsor or oversight group • Milestones and dates: o When was it initiated? o When completed? o What milestones were met in between? • What was the objective of the project? • What was your role and your deliverable? • Describe the role of others on the project team • Describe the scope of the project: o What was in scope? o What was out of scope? • Describe the tasks and skills you used to complete the project • What was the outcome of the project? How was it evaluated? • List at least 3 lessons learned from the project • Submit a documented outcome or tool that you used or created as a result of the project. Acceptable submissions might include but are not limited to the following: In regard to your inquiry, the project is not a project for ASHP but for your employer or other group you might be associated with as a student on rotation, etc. Good luck! I hope that helps!

Thank you, Brian :)

Hey Aydan! Thanks for watching! You certainly do not need a pharmacy job in school to get a residency. My only job during pharmacy school was a 3 month internship at Walgreens and I still landed a PGY-1 and a PGY-2. The most important factors for selection into residency, in my opinion, are 1) Recommendation letters, 2) letter of intent, 3) GPA (strictly for the purpose of cutoffs); extracurricular activities, research, among others can certainly help, but are not major factors. As a general rule of thumb, residency candidates are scored on all of these and the top X amount of students are then invited for an interview. Hope that helps!

Hey Ashanti! There are many routes to pharmacy informatics. The easiest is likely to look for willow inpatient positions (willow = pharmacy in Epic) - there’s usually an influx of those when a hospital is deciding to go live with epic. What would increase your chances of getting hired though, is if you already have an epic certification. You can only get those if you work for an hospital or organization that uses epic. Alternatively, getting experience as a pharmacy tech would help as well. Hope that helps!

I would say it’s geared towards pharmacists and pharmacy techs because of the CE credit for both. However, anyone can actually take it - you just won’t get CE credit and it can be a bit costly. As a student, id suggest taking a look at CAHIMS, but completely up to you. Both teach you similar, yet different things. Hope that helps!

Hey Susie! Glad you've found the information helpful. I would say CAHIMS is hands down, the most recognizable informatics certificate across the board in informatics. However, it's not specific to pharmacy informatics and some say it's a bit too technical. Most of my colleagues have CAHIMS or CPHIMS. The project management domains have been the most useful is what they told me. In regards to the ASHP certificate, it's so new that it's hard to give concrete recommendations on it. However, I know many of the individuals that teach that course and they are certainly well-respected in the field and can offer valuable insight specific to pharmacy informatics. If you have the capacity to take both, certainly would recommend that. If not, I would probably lean towards CAHIMs since that'll be more beneficial in the job search. In the meantime, I have an email out to ASHP about getting some testimonials from individuals that went through the ASHP certificate. Hopefully I can share that soon to provide others some insight.

@@briankfung Hi Brian, thanks for the awesome videos. Just wondering, a year later, do you still recommend CAHiMS over ASHP for informatics certificates?

Hey Abeer! There certainly is - you don't even need to be a pharmacist. I did an interview with someone doing just that. Check it out here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y7KJoZRj2dbLhmg.html

I chuckled a bit at your comparison to a jet engine lol - these were some of my earlier videos and i was still experimenting/learning (still am!). Hopefully some of my more recent videos have better audio! Thanks for stopping by and the feedback

Hey Teeya! You can reach me at ufbfung@gmail.com. However, I'm severely backed up in my emails right now, so it might take awhile for me to respond. I'm strangely better at responding to KZfaq comments right now lol. I'll be on the lookout for your email though!