Does what I said make any sense at all? 😅What price would you pay for a nice new compact micro four thirds camera? What are the specs you want for the next new compact micro four thirds from OM system or Panasonic?

I have always said that the major advantage of MFT is not the smaller body, but rather the smaller lenses.

Wise words Richard. Heat and power are really limiting factors. That said, I'd still like to see an S9 sized body for M43 with the G9 II sensor and a viewfinder. PS - still loving the shirt!

Just to put things into perspective: the Sony A6700 is a pretty compact camera with all the features of a modern camera (PDAF tracking AF with AI/machine learning-based subject recognition, IBIS, 10bit video codecs + log profiles, modern 26 MP sensor). It should be possible, especially for a manufacturer with so much electronics expertise and in-house technology as Panasonic, to produce an MFT camera with a similar form factor and similar features, and perhaps even better IBIS. I think the real reason is that camera manufacturers at some point decided that compact cameras, even with MFT sensors, would no longer competitive against smartphones, and that the only way to persuade customers to still buy cameras was to max out their features, resulting in bigger bodies for higher prices. Compared to the a6700, the A9ii has almost twice (=1.94x) the body volume and one third more weight...

Both Olympus and Panasonic made smaller cameras but no one bought them. I really do believe that if they were to do so again the people clamouring for them wouldn't buy them citing they were too expensive, too crippled in their features, etc etc. When the EP-5 came out no one bought it so it ended up being heavily discounted at a loss. The Pen F was introduced to address the criticisms and while it didn't tank as badly as the EP-5 it still wasn't a profitable camera. Panasonic made a premium compact in the form of the LX100 they ceased it because it didn't sell. Funnily enough Leica have persevered with it under their label and the latest model is sold out due to high demand.

Great explanation from an engineer’s point of view. The reality is that photographers do want a compact body with interchangeable lenses and are willing to sacrifice certain features to get it. What are they NOT willing to sacrifice? IBIS, RAW, great AF, a flip up/down rear LCD, EVF, and 24MP sensor. Will they be using that camera for wildlife? Probably not, which means users would be more willing to sacrifice pre-shot capture, and a large buffer for action. If camera makers open up a survey for all and not just “professionals” they would obtain a more accurate reading of what the majority of photographers really want. And I believe the cost ceiling would be around $1,200 USD.

Yes, we WANT a new small camera M4/3 ! 🫠

S9 existing shows they can make a high-end m43 camera in a gx9 body.

Rich, this really nails the question. Really appreciated input here, most ppl are still looking at this from a wish list perspective, but you describe the engineering and marketing reality of the situation. If ppl want a small, interchangeable lens M4/3 camera, they may as well bag the GM1, GM5, Pen F, GX9 etc. while they can be found in good nick on the used market.

I'm still clinging to the idea of a G90 successor, but I know it would be somehow different in some of the minute things that make it my favourite camera.

I think the issue is people are judging the performance, size and price of the system on a camera level and sensor size level. They don’t consider the size of the lens and the amount of different lenses you have to carry in ff to cover the same range as in mft. at a slight trade off in image quality, many mft lenses replace the need of 2 or 3 bodies in ff. Think of the 40-150f2.8, or the 12-100f4. Effectively in use case, you can’t cheaply replace those lenses with just one lens and one body on ff, you’d need a bunch of primes and a big bag to carry all that.

I would love to see a GX9 II that would be a MFT spin on the S9. Basically taking the G9 II and putting it in a rangefinder style body but also having a mic jack for video. Don't need all of the top video features, 60FPS 4K would be fine, also with PDAF and IBIS. But if they just make a few fast pancake primes for the S9, it'd probably just make me upgrade out of MFT.

I'm still shooting a GX85 and just getting newer lenses. It still does everything I need it to do, and none of the compact mft cameras released since have represented a significant upgrade that justify the price. It'd be nice to get a newer BSI 16mp sensor and next gen IBIS but that's not gonna happen because marketing is all about bigger number better.

I’m surprised you didn’t point to the DLUX-8 from Leica as a great example of these consequences. Essentially they’ve used the old LX100ii platform, but they’ve made those software, processor, USBC, viewfinder, screen upgrades (and re-skinned the body) - and they’re selling for a premium price. It’s difficult for a lot of folk (me included) to see past that old sensor and lens… even with all the development costs of the enhanced components added.

Your analysis seems reasonable, thanks for that! But if I get this right, your premise is that people only say they want only a few new/better features in a compact body but if they get what they say they want, they would still opt for a full-featured but bigger camera. I don't know if that is really the case. It wasn't for me for sure. A couple of years ago I had to retire my old E-M1 and had to choose between the latest then E-M1 Mark III and the E-M5 Mark III which used already several years old technology. I was tempted to go for the newest toy but I couldn't get past the bigger size and weight that came with it. MFT's main appeal is the balance between size, weight and features. So I bought the E-M5 Mark III and I don't regret my choice. I wish there was something qualitatively new out there in a similar body but until it comes around, i will still use my old and somewhat stunted but otherwise perfectly adequate camera.

Very nice video Richard, very good explanation and well thought. I have the G9II and I was expecting the S9 to come with M4/3 but after I saw the specs I was little bit disappointed compare to the price, so I think you are tottaly right, If S9 would come with M4/3 I would still buy another G9II for 2nd camera than an S9 M4/3 with such a price.

The reason why I can't take any of these arguments seriously is that the Panasonic GX85 already felt soooo close, back in 2016. Great stills quality, great 4K video quality, no overheating, amazing IBIS, attractive small size. It only needed PDAF, mic jack, USB-C charging, and a couple more fps on the burst rate, and such a camera would basically be competitive today. Back in the day, Olympus and Panasonic were pushing the boundaries of what was possible with cameras. I just have trouble believing that somehow, all progress ended in 2016.

hello richard, thx for this excellent video. i have fallen in love once again with micro 4/3 cameras. the G9 II . the feature set is an outstanding upgrade ! and i don't have any complaints with the slight increase in size what so ever. the big bonus for micro 4/3 is the smaller, lighter lenses so overall the package is still very compact. the gx9 is an excellent compact camera especially when paired with the lumix 15 mm f1.7 lens. this camera was a commercial failure because it was packaged with a lens, we couldn't purchase this as a camera only. this was a huge marketing blunder causing the discontinuation ( read death of) the excellent gx9 which i still charish. zen billings in canada

Wonderfully informative video! As for myself, I have reached the end of my gear acquisition with the Olympus E-M5 Mk III. I have many (too many) Olympus MFT cameras. I love them all! I would trade a few; for example, my E-PM2 should have replaced my E-PL1, but I still have them both. I have been a loyal fan of Olympus since the 1970s, and I'm not about to change now! I love other camera systems too, having recently become infatuated with, and acquiring, several Pentax Q series cameras. At this point in my life, I cannot imagine what new innovations will I come to regard as absolutely essential, but... who knows?

We see it all the time on DPR Rich with wanting a smaller m4/3 body. I understand the constraints as well though as you pointed out. I use large tele lenses on m4/3 and to be honest, the size of the body makes little difference in handling. The lenses are where it counts. I would love to see smaller bodies and just hope m4/3 does get some new ones. Not crossing my fingers though.

Don’t forget the G100. It’s small for a dslr-shaped camera.

So miniaturization is something we accept as incurring cost in other markets like phones and laptops. It would require a mindset shift in the camera market but I don't think it would be difficult given how similar cameras are to computers and phones. I agree with Wong's desire for a super premium compact camera, one that has a completely metal exterior, would be very successful.

What a fantastic and competent presentation! I agree with everything you said there. I opted for an EM 10 mk4 with small kit lens as a walkaround camera. Until I can afford Leica.

Spot-on, Richard! Well done!

The biggest m43 killer isn't full frame, it's actually 1" sensor smartphones and small apsc cameras. For photography purposes, it's hard to convince people to buy Olympus and Panasonic m43 compared to smaller Fujifilm cameras. Even Sony, Nikon or Canon's apsc offer better versatility when you factor in options from Tamron, Sigma, and Viltrox. Therefore I believe Panasonic should just focus on video and Olympus should focus on macro, that's the main reason people buy them for.

Panasonic made a brilliant move with the S9. This is an absolutely perfect camera I have been waiting for 10 years. I wouldn't have even touched it, if it were a micro four third camera. Now, with my fantastic S9 with a couple of gorgeous compact Sigma lenses, I am a new Panasonic / Sigma customer.

I agree, I think this happened to the Fuji XT50 and XT5 case regarding APS-C system...

Answer: outboard cooling unit, in form of grip. Attached, it unlocks heavier features and proc speeds. User-selectable performance.

Thank you for all of your videos. Very informative and thought provoking. What is that lovely lens you have on the S9 at 6:16?

They should have carried on making the gx9. I think people would still be buying it. It's still a really good camera. Same goes for the gx80. Also being older technology it may have been possible to lower the price. There are a lot of people (me included) that cannot afford a super expensive camera.

Letˋs face it: Sigma created the fp-l with a 61MP full frame sensor in a very small and robust body for a high price. No IB-stabilization and very reduced functionality. The result of the community was clear: No success! But I think that many people liked the design and the idea behind this construction. There must be some major reasons why this camera had so many “flaws”. And I’m pretty sure that Sigma knew all of these reasons but they still had the balls to built this camera because they knew that who ever in the market would try to build something like the fp-l would face the same limitations. I think this is simply based on the points you mentioned in this video. A high power camera in a small body is not possible in the moment. Technology sets its limits. Thank you very much for your great explanations, Richard.

Great explanation Richard, thank you.

I mean the last small micro 4/3 camera was the OM System E-P7, but it's only available in Japan or the UK.

I am a GX-7 owner that held out as long as I could. Just bought a Fujifilm XT-50. It is only slightly heavier than my GX-7 and is basically the same dimensions (thinner but slightly taller). Weight of XT-50 plus the sigma 2.8 18-50 is LESS than the GX7 + Pany 2.8 12-35. All of this with a larger sensor. So this CAN be done. If course Fuji faces the same issues that you bring up, XT-50 is almost as expensive at the XT-5 but with fewer features. But for me, I don't care about the extra features in the XT-5, and I am willing to pay a fair bit for the smaller size.

I'm under the impression that people just want an updated rangefinder style M43 with internals of the G9II albeit with some video limitations. So basically the successor to the GX9. If this thing ever does come out though, it needs to be a premium built product with things like brass knobs and top/bottom plate, no visible screws, drilled inked in lettering... or whatever that can give off that "legacy/craftsman's piece of art" aura. The price needs to exceed what makes logical sense but not too much where a bit of GAS can't fill that gap. Because in an age where APS-C and FF cameras and lenses are getting so small and cheap competing solely on the merits of spec is a fools game. Fuji cameras, especially the X100 series is basically that; a camera that can masquerade as a fashion item and a Leica stand in. It might be weird to shell out so much for a M43 camera but with the new LUT format they are pushing and modern day specs, it should be more than enough for 99% of even the most dedicated street shooters for years to come, easily. The sex appeal should cover the rest. The thing is though... Panasonic's 水道哲学 business philosophy directly goes against this. I'm not sure if it applies to their camera division but it's probably why they leave the premium items to Leica and why their cameras always feel a bit cheap compared to other brands, even on the high end. Though it can be argued that the timing wasn't right, we as consumers had our chance with the GM1/5 and the GX9 and literally no one batted an eye. The GM5 and especially the GX9 puttered out of existence so fast, a lot of people didn't know they even existed. I can understand why Panasonic would be super reluctant to take a swing at this again.

Great explanation! However, smartphones on the other side get new features as well, but the size stays the same. I guess the increase in size is driven by demand for larger cameras by DSLR shooters. A lot of people complain about small grips. But the points stated in the video still apply, especially the costs for developing smaller bodies and a shrinking market, that makes it economically infeasible to offer smaller bodies. One solution could be to reuse generic smartphone hardware within a compact camera. If AI features and hardware encoding would be done on the smartphone chips a lot of development costs for custom chips could be saved.

Very good video. The biggest miss with OM Systems is not releasing a new Pen F with the popularity of similar cameras in the same segments. I think the main reason that OM System is dropping the ball on this is because they don't have the capacity/bandwidth to maintain more product lines than they currently do. They are a very, VERY SMALL company now - almost like an artisan workshop. So they have to move up the value chain and offer fewer, but more premium, higher priced products with a higher margin. There are two ways to achieve that: top of the line flagship products like the OM1 series. And re-released older models like the E-M1III with costs savings (cheaper body, cheaper parts) and no development costs which basically got rebranded as the OM5. Small, compact cameras do not fit that strategy, they're not high margin enough and OM System as that small player now cannot afford to play they low margin game.

For a really premium small and light MFT (photo centric) cam I would nearly pay the same price as for the G9ii as I‘ll use it even more often and for me ergonomics, size, design is even more important than most of the tech features. But some core specs should be there: Highly improved mobil connectivity, More than 20mpx, Hybrid autofocus, superior IBIS, improved dynamic range, good tilting viewfinder. No need for high burst rates or high level video capabilities.

I think it has way more to do with the consumer camera market being near non-existent in 2024. When M43’s cameras had their hay day 2009-2013, most people had a point and shoot camera for family photos. Smartphone cameras weren’t there yet. Anyone who came up against the low light limitations of point and shoots found their way to those great compact M43s cameras - like the Pen EPL series. Now even the family members of mine who used to carry a DSLR everywhere are just using their phones too. Panasonic has stretched the Micro 4/3 platform as a professional tool, and it benefits from this great library of lenses. There’s more money in that than any consumer compact camera. It would not be technically hard at all to upgrade many of the 10-year old 16MP era M43 cameras (GX85, GM1, GM5, Pen F) to the current 5-year old 20mp sensor, just like the cameras that did get the upgrade (Em10, EM5, etc) without changing their dimensions. But they wouldn’t sell, for rhe same reason you can’t even buy a new Canon PowerShot anymore. There’s enough of a market to drive the price of these cameras up used, but once new supply is there I just can’t see it. Fujifilm got the hype machine trending enough to make it but this is such a niche market I don’t think there’s room for anyone else.

I feel the way forward is to revert back to the old camcorder shape with interchangeable lenses. A GH7 in the shape of a small URSA Mini. 🤔

How about a gx8 mark ii? Seems like with the extra space with the grip could help with space for keeping cool, and the processor, and still gives photographers the EVF, and gives the videographers the Flippy screen and mic jac. They could redesign the grip a bit, as the original is kinda uncomfortable. The gf3, gf5, g3 style grip would be pretty cool! The g3, which had a smaller grip than the g5, g6, g7, g9, is also a cool compact design, that still has an evf, and could probably house a bigger processor.

Excellent summary of reasons why the new small MFT camera hasn't appeared.

Ahhh! You’re a software engineer! No wonder your commentary is always so smart 😊

I would love a G100 with the G9II sensor and the DR-Boost. It would be a perfect second/backup camera to use and stil get the same image quality of both cameras. Now i either need 2 x G9II or edit the non G9II camera to look the same as G9II.

If any outcome is a set of compromises, then they could "cripple" the LX100m2 by churning out a photo-centric camera with the same sensor, but with a fixed lens, tilting OLED screen, no EVF (they can sell it separately), a cleaner UI, the same battery, but with USB C charging, and built in film simulations. I'd buy that. Even without weather sealing and improved 4k video and mic jack.

Don’t want a better sensor or burst rate, or subject detection, just small, attractive rangefinder style with a modern evf and usb-c

..I recently purchased the OM5 ...and I love it/.. I am also a Sony user/.with the evolution of generative AI...I love upscaling my images .. with a couple of primes is a no brainer ...🎉

For such a thing to be possible they need 1. a modular board design that can scale based on features, ports, battery and cooling between both mounts (m43 and L mount) 2. a modular image engine design where features (AF capability, photo burst rates, video specs) can be physically removed from the board layout OR a way to turn them off completely in firmware so they don't use power - second option is more likely since you'd rather bulk order one part than 3 or 4 based on sku demand The rest will literally be the same. Both of these endeavors are expensive and I doubt any m43 vendor has the resources, plus it will take years to develop for uncertain ROI.

I doubt it's mainly the technical reasons why we don't see small (and/or affordable) M43 cameras. I think it's just easier to sell a limited amount of enthusiasts with a lot of money very expensive, maximum featured cameras and lenses with a big margin. My guess is: There isn't really enough demand for a low margin, high volume approach in the camera sector anymore. Even the few new point & shoots, speciality and retro cameras are exclusively aimed at high price, high margin, low volume nowadays. That said, I would buy a decently priced small M43 to replace my 10 year old one, if it had some better features, even if compromising. I just love the small form factor of body and lenses and I really don't need full frame or crop sensors (or 4K+ video) for anything. But that's just me I guess...

I think you hit all the nails on the head with this one! So nothing to add, but Lumix is really in a tough spot. They simply can't develop a small camera within the profit they expect from it, so they need to sacrifice so much on capability that the market size drops, or use leftover technology years later than the market wants. Personally I think external EVF is a great idea, keep that headline below $1200 with the 25mp sensor and let people decide if they care enough to add it back.

Very good discussion. Thank you!

Richard we have small and very capable compact cameras from Sony and Fuji and those use a bigger sensor that uses more resources. Panasonic and OM System have neglected their user base and their demands. They sold very well when it was all about small and compact but with great specs and awesome small well priced lenses. Sony also have A7c, A7c ii and A7R. No excuses!

Great insight. What of using off the shelf 3 or 4nm components to offload much the heavy lifting? ARM SOCs for instance?

I think that the single most important reason a consumer would want a small Micro four thirds camera is to have a STILLS capability that ensures Excellent quality (dynamic Range and low light capability) that would serve the purpose of a Travel camera as well as street camera...Video features with high frame rates can be dispensed with as also Frames per second for burst modes as well ...No one carrying such a small camera would be interested in Wildlife and sports photography 9although for occasional use, a small camera can double up with lesser capability)...this would mean that Rolling shutter will be acceptable and there is no need for a super quick readout of an improved sensor (dynamic range and better low light) and a lower speed processor (and hence power saved) and a smaller battery would deliver the job...this is definitely doable and in not doing anything at all about what can be done ,OM solutions and Panasonic are losing market share...and they are leaving the entire micro four thirds community who have invested in lenses high and dry ...and they are not even releasing a reworked version of older and proven technology that many micro four thirds users will be happy with if only the price is kept down....at the moment the manufacturers seem to be lacking a clear vision and not thinking at all of anything at all for an entry and mid level segment...this sort of a paralysis does not augur well and it is only a matter of time when Full frame segment will wipe out the micro four thirds segment (it has already made big inroads )...Why on Earth should OM solutions introduce a reworked Sigma 150-600mm Full frame lens when instead it could have introduced a 400mm Prime and with the Teleconverters provide the reach?...If Nikon can have a light enough PF500mm prime why should not Olympus or panasonic introduce such quality primes to target the Top end of micro four thirds users...Looks like they have run out of ideas irrespective of the Entry level or top end of the STILLS segment (although we do acknowledge that Panasonic has strenthened the video side with the introduction of GH7)...Time for Panasonic and OM solutions to get to the drawing Board and review the purpose for them to continue the Micro Four thirds segment.

If Panasonic made a smaller range finder style of the G9ii it would not sell for $1000, they would price it at least $1399, which I think would be a fair price as the g9ii is $1899.

It all comes down to the difference between the pro and hobbyist. Pros want full features, and size is not the biggest concern. They also have more to spend on a cam, thus more profit margin. Hobbyists want small and reasonably priced. And most simply go with their phone. A small Lumix is thought of by most as a compact cam, and that market is dead.

Like it or not this is an accurate reality check. As far as price we will either have to take older components or fewer cutting edge features. The same way that the G9 Mark II and the S5 Mark II share the same body probably means that a new MFT camera will share a body/battery with the S9. Price advantage won't come from OM.. they price everything at a premium. Lumix might be able to use off the shelf components of the G100.. and build it into an attractive rangefinder body. I wouldn't mind it myself if they just took the GX8 body with that excellent grip and viewfinder.. keep the mic..add earphone.. we don't need all the latest video.. LUTs and Leica Monochrome would be nice. Don't leave out fun colors for the US market like GM1. I vote for the bigger sensor and stabilization. Might be able to do that for $1399.. maybe. Kit it up with a decent Leica co branded lens option as well and emphasize that connection.. classic camera looks are going to be very important..

Personally all your points and reasoning are correct, there is no fault... as an System Engineer with a MBA.. i affirm it. But there is a very valid point here: Companies that not satisfy the prevailing market needs are destined to disappear... that is a rule yes or yes... miniaturization in affordable technology is growing but in contrast the irresponsible accelerated consumption RULES THE WORLD OF ECONOMY and companies try to achieve make money.. right? ..So... in the long term, the principles of logic in development going to be displaced.. another "yes or yes". Moore's law is already obsolete, right?.. for example; Nvidia graphics accelerator "Tesla cards" cost US$6000 just a few years ago ...today only cost US$200... better example, impossible. Grettings from Mexico... you're one of the best Brainy 🧠 photographers on all KZfaq... 🙏🏻✌🏻

There’s no new small cameras right now to protect the X100 and Ricoh GR. Give it enough time and you’ll likely only see a modest refresh of the Pen F, with a price hike.

I bought the gx800 in 2018 and I love it, but I would love to have an evf. The price at the time was 300 dollars and today I could pay 500-600 dollars

Very good explanation. I needed that.

GF1 for me too, but then nothing until GH5 10 years later, but then a used GX9 shortly later, which for me is the GF1 modern version. A compact G9 mk 2 would be awesome though.

I would love a new weather sealed GX8II rangefinder style body using the modern pdaf sensor in the G9II and GH7

If you don't need an interchangeable lens system then a rebooted LX100 might work (with a prime rather than zoom lens). Certainly the D-LUX 8, while over-priced, seems to be pitching into that space. That said, it would need to compete well with the GRIII and X100 equivalents. Or a G100 but in a range-finder body? In the meantime, I'll have to stick with my G100, GX1, and E-PM1 setups. (I have searches set up for the GM1 and GF1 to alert me should one pop up in the NZ marketplace secondhand). Good video putting yourself in the manufacturer's shoes.

The Canon R8 is $1300 and weighs 461 grams. M43 can’t compete on price anymore so they have two options: 1. the heavy, expensive ultra-pro route like the GH7 2. the expensive lifestyle camera that equals the Fujifilm X100 VI in perceived performance while beating it on style, weight and size. 1 is the safe play, 2 is a risk but it can bring much profit if done right - the lens needs to be special.

A new version of the Olympus PM1 or LUMIX GM1, 16 mega pixel sensor but optimised for low light sensitivity to compete against phone cameras at events and venues. No articulated screen as makes the camera too bulky. Make sure there is an extra physical dial control so the cameras have an advantage over a phone as per the EPL10. Built in IS, that can be optimised for shooting portrait video if the cameras is used rotated. Built in flash and hot shoe. Mic input for blogging or allow the hot shoe to take a mic accessory. Keep the price under that of a medium level phone so around €750.

It just needs to be a rangefinder style. Wouldn't that make the body more compact?

Actually an S9 sized M43 camera isn't a bad idea, consider all the smaller M43 lenses which L mount doesn't and/or couldn't offer.

S9 but with the m43 sensor. 4k 30, 60, and 120 with no crop. Everything else can stay the same. Swap the sensor and the lens mount.

There's one, called E-P7 and it is fantastic.

If Panasonic or Olympus would release a new M43 camera with a form factor similar to the Sony A7C I will buy it because of their color science and their smaller lenses. But they won't.

It was interesting to find out your opinion, Richard ! In my opinion, there is no problem for Panasonic and OMS to build tiny cameras. The problem is that phones are much smaller and a better option for the people which want portability. The entry level cameras are in competition with the phones and all the producers knows that entry level cameras have no future. Cameras cannot win portability competition against phones. The users which are still buying cameras are enthuziastic users which demands performance : big buffer, fast frame rate, good battery, recoding movies without heating, big EVF....etc.

Let's put it this way... If Ricoh can manufacture a GRIII, Panasonic could manufacture a revisited GF 😎😁 😉 And as always, I'm looking forward to your next video 😊

I guess the manufacturers are trying to add more and more features… so yeah the new cameras are bigger. I’m trying to decide on a MFT camera to shoot real estate - but finding one is pretty difficult. I want it to be at least 25mp, support 3 or 5 AE bracket but allowing me to vary the range (lumix don’t do this) and also allow delayed shooting on the bracket shot - pana does this but apparently OM don’t. It also needs a hot shoe mount for a flash trigger. Ideally good AF and 4K50p at 10 bit colour with 150mbits. If any of the current cameras did it even at the GH7 price I’d pay it.

We need new gx and lx cameras with Real tinme lut feature. S9 should have been a fixed lens camera to make sense. There is market for that now. What we need now is gx10 with gx80 size and controls but with mic jack. Live nd if possible like those on olympus cameras. DR boost. Compact. Stylish. Pop up flash. Good evf. And a new Lx100 with nd filter and leaf shutter. Super stylish and retro with manual controls. I wish if it can do infrared photography with switching the IR cut filter to the side. No permanent conversation needed. How cool that will be?? Real time luts on this package will be more fun and the community can create and share recipes like fuji. But as u said the price am willing to pay is max at 1200 USD😅 guess its going to be only in a wishlist.

I wonder if you can't make an M43 camera just for photography. Or are we all hybrids now? Because the real problem with oversizing is the video. Also surprising are some new lenses in M43 that already seem to be full frame due to size and price.

perfect and comprehensive video. Thank you. Please, Richard, tell Panasonic if it would be a good idea to make a real PHOTO camera. Wlth only basic video features. BUT with every possible serious photography ones. There is a beautiful and "alive" world out there who love the true photography and does not give a damn about video. Its the world that believes that photography is the real art of expression. The process, the interaction, the editing, the sense and the smell of the printed paper... Its the world who want to take that perfect rangefinder Leica camera with ONLY the 50mm lens attached for everything and for life! BUT, they cannot afford it!!! On the other hand, many, like me love Panasonic and re proud users of Lumix cameras. We know Panasonic is a video oriented company. In fact, they re the very best. But, as a pure photographer, i think that nonw can prevent me from dreaming... Richard, i appreciate...

Why should I, as a consumer, be concerned about the problem of technological and technical lag of one manufacturer from another? If Panasonic cannot create a technically advanced but compact camera, then seeing this, I go buy a product, for example, Sony, which can do EVERYTHING in a compact body and excellent functionality, and not come up with ridiculous excuses, like some manufacturers.

Thanks for your interesting thoughts! Still I don’t buy it completely, because there are some other examples like the S5 being much smaller than its predecessor S1. And Olympus/OM System even managed to shrink existing cameras significantly, as far as I know without a new processor: E-M1 II to E-M5 III and E-M1 III to OM-5.

I’m sure it’s coming, camera manufacturers have seen the want for compact street cameras, it just takes 3-5 years to create a new camera. I suspect that we will see a suddenly explosion of niche compacts from every major manufacturer to compete with the GRIII and X100.

If we take the fact that the G92 and the S5 2X are the same body, can we expect that an S9 body with a micro for third sensor will be coming? Also perhaps GH7 larger body will be the same body as the next S1.

One "hopeful" sign is that Panasonic seems to have preserved the tooling to re-issue the FZ80. In particular, the molds to create a plastic camera body can be extremely expensive to create from scratch, even with CAD and 3D printing. That Panasonic managed to substitute in a USB-C connector in the new FZ-80 sheds new light on OM System's badly gauged retention of the old USB connector in the OM-5. Perhaps OM didn't have the ability to change the physical layout of the body. I also wonder if OM System inherited the tooling for, say, the PEN-F. If not, starting from scratch on a new PEN-F would be enormously expensive for a company that shows no sign of being rich enough to do so. And as you say, it would be difficult to cram all the newest MFT tech into a body as compact as a PEN-F or GX-9. At very least an accommodation will need to be made for a larger battery. I'm hoping that a tech-aggressive company like DJI will take on the compact MFT challenge. DJI seems to be extraordinarily innovative AND responsive to user needs, as the Pocket 3 demonstrates. DJI is already a member of the MFT alliance.

Great discussion. Thank you.

Oh Richard! You have destroyed my latest video 😂This is hilarious!!! 😂 Thank you for your thorough insight (and shattering my M43 dream)

The problem is that the old cameras are not available anymore. I cannot buy new LX100 II, there is nothing like GX80 either. My LX100 died and if I want to keep the same form factor of the camera, I will have to switch to Sony A6x00 (which means larger lenses).

Even if the weren't a big success they made a statement and building the brand. That is important. And an evf isn't necessary on a small camera. For a small camera it's ok if the video features are less than top notch and the recording time are limited. Also not necessary with high speed photo. Which means less need for bulky cooling. The GX 80/85 isn't that big and the GX 800/850 even smaller and the first have evf. Without high res video recording they can make an ultra low power Venus Engine with slightly less performance and still tic most boxes for a small streetphoto camera and no need for a giant battery.

People make the bold assumption that loads of features make for a better camera. I look at where I’ve seen the best photography, and modern cameras don’t factor into it. It’s the camera that the photographer knows how to use - most new cameras are far too complex for their owners to know how to use all or even most of the features. I did much of my best work with a Nikon F3, which is as simple as cameras get. Digital imaging has changed the game, there are methods that should offer advantages, which should be included. One such method is HDR. HDR as the name implies allows the camera to have more dynamic range, but the way image bracketing is done is still stuck in the film ere. Take an image, take another image, take a third image…. If there is something moving in the image, it’s in multiple places. With digital once the shutter is open the image begins to build. You could make the exposure the length of the longest exposure of the old method, but copy the sensor data at key points along the way, so you could have -2 stops, -1 stop, center, +1 stop and +2 stops and moving object will start at the same point.

Hi Richard, I think it is pity the companies cannot live with stock components to keep the price lower. I understand size is not an easy issue. Maybe external solutions like external EVF or control/audio/lighting "interface-hub" is a possibility to reduce body size. Besides i would wish bigger screen. Maybe external field monitors/EVF can do some magic? Of course an upgraded GX8 with screen of GH7 would be marvellous too.

Because they want to die and are caving their own tomb. They seem to be against doing anything that might sell well to their user base... 😅

So basically all the upgrades that Sony did on the a6700 apsc camera, but on a 4/3 camera.

a cheaper m43 w/ fixed lens competitor to the Ricoh GRIII or X100VI would be nice

The MTF sensor with 20 megapixels have a high pixels density, if it was the same pixels density in a full frame Camera then it would be 76 megapixels ! The Panasonic MTF sensor with 25 megapixel have an even higher pixels density and equals 96 megapixels for full frame and it is about the same pixel density as the Sony 40 megapixels sensor in Fuji cameras.

The G100 has most of the modern features you referred to. Its cheap (about $700....) Your premiss with is not relevent! A small, inexpensive micro 4/3 camera, with modern features already exists. BTW from what I know, it doesn't sell that well.

The new S1 ii camera will be bigger than first one? ;) Compact cameras have lost the battle to smartphones with computational photography on board. The user wants to get the result here and now, without the need to transfer the material to a computer and without lengthy manual post-processing.

I don't understand why this was possible 10 years ago but not today...

On PenF- PenF had many compromises for its target market (hurts because it did get several things right too). Slow random turn-on, FAS LCD instead of TILT, no PdAF, shady AF in moderate to low light specially with several Panasonic lenses like the very key and nice 15mm F1.7. GM5 was miss marketed and it begs the question: would a GM5 capture more attention in a world where cameras with bigger sensors have significantly shrunk? Honestly, if the answer is, "we really can't sell a modern small compact m43rds camera even if the price has to be $1,500 USD" then the answer may very well be "m43rds market and case has slowly vanished." I don't think that's the case, but seems to me the inevitable conclusion.

Leica d-lux 8 that just came out is MFT!

Just remake an Limited edition of GM1. Same specs only better AF. Those are not valued by specs, will be valued by their limited qty.

I would be interested in a compact MFT with modern specs, but I feel Fuji and Ricoh have already cornered that market. With the whole S9 debacle, call it what you like, I dont see Panasonic doing it anytime soon.

I can tell you 16mpx good full HD and eye autofocus… good battery 😅 but I understand