What do you think of the new voicings, do you hear a big difference?
@fordprefect383 Жыл бұрын
Thanks very much for your video. You deliver what Modartt should have done: A direct comparison of v7 vs v8. First I listend to your examples with a mediocre louspeaker, and I couldn't tell a difference between 7 and 8. Then I listened with some decent headphones, and I still have a hard time to make out a big difference. The difference is very subtle, if there is any. Maybe you should have recorded the MIDI and played it back with both pianoteq 7 and 8, so both versions get the exact same MIDI input. The differences I do hear with your examples could well be due to small differences of you playing the keyboard. Having said that, I think I hear a slight improvement in the attack phase of the piano with Pianoteq 8. It seems to sound a bit more colorful when compared to version 7. This is more audible at the harpsichord. For me, however, the piano is much more important than the harpsichord, so I guess the upgrade from 7 to 8 is not for me. Btw: I agree that Modartt should release Stringteq, where they emulate the sound of violins, cellos and so on. I think this would find a much broader audience than their Organteq.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@fordprefect383 I agree it is subtle on the pianos, maybe some of the other pianos have a bigger difference, but I'm not sure. The second longer piano demo is the same midi file, but it can be hard to highlight the differences without totally losing context of how they really sound. It sounds to me like less energy is being generated in the midrange, opening up the sound of the piano.
@midimanradium1285 Жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but still the same artificiality continues. Such that its artificiality can be understood in 3-5 seconds. I agree that it is the most playable virtual instrument on the market, but I think it needs more soul, more randomness, variety and more wood.
@MaxRiley Жыл бұрын
@@midimanradium1285 I agree
@bizarro-79 ай бұрын
@@midimanradium1285 It already has that soul and randomness, which can be easily attained by moving the 'Condition' slider somewhat to the right. Unfortunately, in most presets this slider is at the leftmost position, which represents an ideal piano in a *perfect* condition, and everybody just leaves it as it is. Moving it a notch or two to the right makes every piano sound much more real. And all this without taking into account the huge amount of parameters that can be fined tuned...
@DJKLProductions Жыл бұрын
I am a happy user of Pianoteq who does not regret buying the Studio Bundle, which includes the Pro version, back in Pianoteq 6 days. Since then, I upgrade it every time a new version is released, as the upgrades from Modartt/Pianoteq are among the cheapest on the market and you always get a noticeable improvement. It was, and still is, a great joy when the morphing and layering function came, as suddenly the possibilities became even more endless and I didn't think it was possible. In general, all the gadgets that the Pro version offers are just fantastic and extraordinary. You can simply "build" your own based on "real"/existing pianos and create your desired sound. The fact that you can create your own microphones is also absolutely sensational. Incidentally, I use the harp from Pianoteq as standard when I need one in an orchestral context, as it sounds very convincing in this.
@mtreder4 Жыл бұрын
This is exactly the video I was looking for and you knocked it out of the park!
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@Music-tg5is Жыл бұрын
This was a really great comparison video between v7 and v8. I think, because the changes were so subtle, yet still very noticeable made it difficult for many users to discern the difference. But the format you presented here really highlighted the differences and imho, improvements. Oh! And I too echo your sentiments around Modartt hopefully physically modelling string instruments in the future. Great video! :)
@simeonvisscher54969 ай бұрын
Your humor surrounding the copyright claim deserves a like on its own. Rest of video also useful. Agree with the Stringteq request as well.
@Mx._Jess Жыл бұрын
if you're interested in physically modeled solo strings, both Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling have had their own versions of those for years and they pretty much live up to everything you seem to want, you only need to know what you're doing to get particularly convincing results. i have often wondered if Modartt would be interested in becoming competitive in that space but honestly it's pretty prohibitively well covered so i wouldn't expect them to unless they could introduce something that none of the others have: proper microphone simulation could be that thing, since they've already nailed it in Pianoteq, and it's not something Audio Modeling or Sample Modeling seem that interested in.
@michaelschnell5633 Жыл бұрын
Yep ! And Wind and Brass (when played with a Wind Controller or Breath controller),
@godisbollocks Жыл бұрын
Harpsichord sounds killer!
@msld_sound Жыл бұрын
There's a definite difference in the Steinway voicings! I agree with your assessment; PTQ8 sounds less honky. - Playing the PTQ8 guitar, my first thought was "let's see if cranking the bloom and sympathetic resonance gives us a sitar!" It didn't, but it sounded LIKE a sitar, so I have high hopes that Modartt will expand on the fretted string front with unusual fretted strings like banjo, sitar, dobro, etc.
@msld_sound Жыл бұрын
I would die of happiness if Modartt developed good modeled solo strings. I think apart from the Expressive E strings, the only other "solo strings" physical model title is an iOS app called FingerFiddle. It is quite expressive! The timbre changes drastically depending on where you play, such as "normal" bowing vs. sul pont or sul tasto. If your "bowing" uses a whole fingerprint instead of the fingertip, or strays from string-perpendicular toward string-parallel, you can make some great shrieky sounds. Alas, FingerFiddle suffers from the same "uncanny valley" vibes as other physical model synths, like the occasional inharmonic squeak on an otherwise dolce note. It also has the worst of the worst: very audible aliasing. So, fingers crossed Modartt decides to explore string modeling, because I think they could nail it.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@msld_sound the interface/control is always tricky with strings. But maybe having faders you can map to physical faders to control bow position and pressure could work!
@xinaesthetic Жыл бұрын
@@msld_sound there’s also the SWAM iOS apps. Maybe you don’t quite classify them as physical modelling, but it definitely covers a lot of that ground vs samplers. I think for making good modelled strings, potentially having LFOs and envelopes (which can be done with external midi) to inject some life can go some way to making up for the input interface limitations which seems like one of the biggest difficulties. FingerFiddle is fun, I must play with it again sometime, but it feels a bit impractical.
@dlbcomposer Жыл бұрын
Enjoyed your comparison! Nice work. It's weird that you got a copyright claim for a piece that's in public domain, though. Maybe that's a mistake by KZfaq?
@shaunreich Жыл бұрын
I'd also love them to create a Stringteq. Everything they have is fantastic, works well on my platform (Linux), and just lets me get to playing with a great sounding system. I hope they eventually come to Android too, that would be a game changer
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I heard about SWAM the other day, and it is essentially that. Sounds good from what I've seen, but I've yet to check it out myself
@kaisfp Жыл бұрын
I think the attack (in synth terms the A from the ADSR) sounds a little better, less "robotic/metallic/whateverisitcalledic", nothing groundchanging, but I personally certainly appreciate the little improvement on the attack specifically because that was always one of my biggest problems with Pianoteq's sound, the attack-part of the sound is still one of the least realistic IMHO, so I hope they can improve it even more in the future.
@xinaesthetic Жыл бұрын
I think the note effects are an interesting addition, but it was the ability to route external audio through that made me immediately upgrade when I realised it was there, and proceed to indulge in some sustain-pedal-down, singing through the piano resonance…
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
That's a good point, I haven't played around with that feature!
@xinaesthetic Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard interesting sound design possibilities I think... Maybe limited uses in a more classical context, unless perhaps it's to try to reproduce the interplay between Glenn Gould-ish vocalisations and the instrument... 😉
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@xinaesthetic might be cool for some ambient or experimental sounds, either way, its a cool feature!
@xinaesthetic Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard the other day, a video about Pianodrome in Edinburgh showed up in my recommended feed, which is a really nice project to restore or otherwise reuse discarded pianos into sculptures etc... But in the opening of the video where they were illustrating the things digital pianos can't do, including slamming down the sustain pedal and shouting into the open body of the piano for example, there was a little voice inside me saying "well actually... never say never". It was a feature I'd wanted in Pianoteq (I might even have requested it a while back), didn't realise it had been added. Not that this negates their wider point, really.
@jonathanosborn4800 Жыл бұрын
Do you have enough experience with Lounge Lizard and Arturia to compare? As for "3D", they actually added 3d vibration of piano strings for 8, i believe.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I haven't tried those, so no. Arturia makes good stuff, but I haven't tried their pianos.
@furiobisotti8150 Жыл бұрын
I play in rock cover bands. For my use live and recording Pianoteq is my first choice for acoustic pianos. Not always for electric (Rhodes and Wurly). For these sounds I think that Pianoteq simulations of amplifiers are not top class. Using lower resolution things in Kontakt (obviously sampled), I find more convincing amplifier and loudspeaker simulations just inside there.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
That's awesome! There are also lots of great amp sims that you could send pianoteq to, I've gotten some great results with effects outside the included ones
@furiobisotti8150 Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard Yes. Agreed. Effects inside pianoteq are not best in class
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@furiobisotti8150 most of them are pretty good, but you can certainly find better options out there!
@JoeLinux2000 Жыл бұрын
I'd like a really good string ensemble set. Also I still believe the interface could be improved. For example being able to stretch tune only the treble section. in an adjustable block. Generally PT8 is singing well for me.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I think you can manually sharpen the treble and hopefully save that as a preset. I haven't played around with that too much, but I remember there's a window where you can set the pitch of each note
@chopin4525 Жыл бұрын
You can do that.
@abath07 Жыл бұрын
Was the "Mark 1" Tine Rhodes EP voicing upgraded from version Pianoteq 7 to 8?
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I don't think so, seemed the exact same to me
@lockinski Жыл бұрын
Thanks Nick, I appreciate your videos. Quick question: I like the sostenuto pedal feature in pianoteq, esp. for playing Debussy, Ravel etc. Do you know of a hardware midi pedal that has a lock mechanism like a modern grand? That is you press down the pedal and then move sideways to lock into place. This is an absolutely essential facility for modern music, but I can't seem to find a midi pedal that does this.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I don't know of one, and unless someone makes a custom one, I don't know that we'll see one anytime soon. It would require an extra big housing and multiple axis of rotation. It would certainly be possible, but more expensive and a small market for it. I've also never seen a grand with a locking middle pedal, many uprights, yeah, usually for a practice felt/celeste but a locking sostenuto would be new to me. Where have you seen that?
@lockinski Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard I did reply to your question Nick, but it got deleted. Maybe because I put a link in. The link was to a pianists wordpress site that had an image of a locking middle sostenuto pedal. You can find the page and image by doing an image search with the words "sostenuto pedal" - if you get the same results as me there's an image that then links to Weng Lee's blog. Anyway, it seems, much to my surprise, that a locking middle sostenuto pedal is pretty rare these days. When I was a student in the 1980s my university had 2 concert Steinways with that function and the piano teachers taught how to play some French pieces using the sostenuto (locked) and then the left damper pedal and right sustain pedal simultaneously. I guess times have changed and it looks like grands these days don't have the locking facility, so certain pieces now, I think, cannot be played authentically any more.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@lockinski that's interesting, I'll check it out! and yes, only channel owners can post links as per youtube policy (prevents spam/scams) I've worked on a few hundred pianos, many concert and semi-concert grands, steinways from all eras, but I have yet to see that on any, but I believe you! maybe it was a trend for a little while that didn't catch on
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@lockinski I found the image in question on Weng Lee's blog, but that is a picture of an upright. While it might be possible to make on a grand, it's much easier to have the swivel required for locking on an upright, since there's much more room to move in the cabinet. On a grand, it would require re-designing the lyre. An upright has an adjustable thin rod and cable system for the middle pedal in a locking felt situation, whereas a grand has a much larger solid rod that wouldn't like being pivoted, so the best way would be to put the pivot point directly under the back of the pedal, which is also free-floating and only connected by a pivot in the middle of the pedal in the wooden housing.
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
I actually hear no difference between 7 and 8. I have ver 8 and I think it might have a memory leak or something...as time goes on the more tinny it sounds. I reboot the computer each time I use it...but usually use the same settings I had last time. The tunings seem to be off over time as well. I play along with recorded music..70s stuff usually. Now I'm finding things aren't quite fitting correctly with the recordings. Weird.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
that's odd, not sure what could be going on there. what do you have for monitors? You can also always render multiple copies of the same track and see if there's differences in the recordings. Of course, there will be, as there's some randomness in the model, but if there's anything going on with the timing or tuning it should be obvious
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard I have 2 stereo amps...4 speakers...using Focusrite 6i6....I'm going to do an Uninstall and reinstall and see if things calm down
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@zumadale Not sure what your amps are, but maybe on some proper monitors or headphones you'd be able to hear the differences, they are quite subtle I'll say, but they are definitely there
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard Yamaha HS8's and Carvin PA with 15 inch speakers. Worked great in ver 7. Something is degrading ...not sure what it is....going to figure it out
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@zumadale The HS8's should be good, I used the HS5's for years
@PanopticMotion Жыл бұрын
I am looking for a recommendation for an 88-key controller under $2,000. I would really appreciate it if you could help me out? Thank you.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I haven't tried everything out there, but I've had the Korg D1 for a few years and I still like it. I did a review of it. I haven't found a digital piano that perfectly emulates a real piano, though!
@PanopticMotion Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard Thanks, I'll take a look at the D1.
@ArgoBeats Жыл бұрын
Love Pianoteq for playability, but, man, its pianos' timbres and tone in general are still very far from the real thing, or even from the big names like Garritan, Ivory or VSL. Especially in the middle register, at least to my ears.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
I should do a comparison with a real piano and see how close it can get! I regularly tune a nice Steinway B in a studio with plenty of nice mics. It would be a fun test!
@ArgoBeats Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard it would be great and very effective!
@unotoli Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard That's what really missing! I still low "raw" sound of 7, but how 8 is closer to reality I ask myself. VST (with different mic settings) is to the rescue! Same pre-recorded MIDI (with different intensity) and A/B switching would be the best 🙏
@midimanradium1285 Жыл бұрын
ArgoBeats no need to doubt, I think the same as you. Finally someone who thinks like me. I won't go into details, but for me, it's a losing product from the beginning.
@AliAhmed-kk8lt Жыл бұрын
Can I use pianoteq with casio. Ap710!!?
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
Yes, though the Celviano pianos already have high quality sounds built in. They do have a midi connection and that's all you'll need from the piano. They have great action and a good interface, I just think the speaker system in them in not that impressive considering the cost!
@AliAhmed-kk8lt Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard can I use pianoteq with clp775 thats what I have?
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@AliAhmed-kk8lt yes, it has MIDI as well, that's all you need
@godisbollocks Жыл бұрын
The Wurlitzer here is inferior to Keyscape, in my opinion
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
I think you're playing both at same time...7 and 8?? Not to complain but the recording method you're using kind of diminishes the sound quality. I know it sounds so much better on other videos.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
They were never playing at the same time, I cropped in the comparison just to show the interfaces better. These are not processed in any way except normalizing to -1 dBTP. You're that it sounds a little crispy in parts here on youtube and it doesn't in the video on my pc. It's not hitting the limiter in davinci resolve, and that's the only plugin after pianoteq. I'll check what youtube prefers for audio codecs In terms of the musical performance, I think my velocities are too loud, and I should've backed them off some
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard I like what you do with pianoteq...I like the analytical view point of a real piano tuner. I learned just enough to tune my own piano a while ago. My right shoulder couldn't take it....figured it was time to go digital. What I find with digital is I'm able to play along with recordings now. The slight out of tune real piano I couldn't do that.
@NickLeonard Жыл бұрын
@@zumadale it's brave to try to tune it! It takes like 10-20 tunings to get a baseline where you can do a decent job in less than 4 hours, then about your first 100 to get proficient enough, then a couple years or a few hundred to get your speed up to where you can do a pro job in 60-90 min. That's to say, it's worth a shot for fun and learning, but you're never going to get the 10,000 hours to master it unless it's your job
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard Ha ha..I know. I took a few lessons hands on with a guy in Phoenix that's a pretty renowned piano tuner. Damn if I can recall his name...lol...I'll figure it out. He was buddies with the likes of Bill Bremmer if you know who he is.. Anyway...learned enough to tune pretty well it just took me forever using Tunelab. I like pianoteq cuz it allows me to jam directly with The Beatles and many many others.
@zumadale Жыл бұрын
@@NickLeonard Jim Coleman! Lol...that's his name. He was basically retired and gave lessons out of his home. He was getting along in years but I learned a lot with him and used youtube for addition lessons. Tuning is really hard work...my neck muscles and shoulder really let me know. I was able to tune the center string with tunelab ...and eventually was able to tune the unisons by ear....at first I used tunelab for unisons...lol....but figured out how to do it by ear and get that beautiful "bloom" going. Any way I hung up my tuning hammer in favor of digital.
@FishCow Жыл бұрын
I recommend you break up the listening with this: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y9KaZ8SJ3pO2e5c.html Then come back, Just kidding - but it is amusing and soothing. For me, Pianoteq 8 is sounding warmer and more intimate. Depending on the samples you can change a lot with filtering right?
@bobmason13612 ай бұрын
A bit late to the Party... Did you get uour solo violin? SWAM Violin and a Roli Seaboard Rise / Block Controller. Check on YT.