PIE & PROTO URALIC

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ILoveLanguages!

ILoveLanguages!

9 ай бұрын

Welcome to my channel! This is Andy from I love languages. Let's learn different languages/dialects together.
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Пікірлер: 101
@The34Boy
@The34Boy 9 ай бұрын
If we look at the geographies where Indo-Europeans first appeared and generally lived, it is normal for us to mix with the Uralic peoples. But who knows, maybe they are distant cousins ​​of our ancestors.
@Persian341
@Persian341 9 ай бұрын
Who knows
@defoperator7993
@defoperator7993 7 ай бұрын
They literally are! R, M, & N paternal genetics groups all seem to have developed around the same time in the same location. They each had slightly different migrations around the Eurasian continent and even back migrations to Africa. they also took on various different phenotypic appearances according to admixture and environmental factors.
@lorddraco1359
@lorddraco1359 Ай бұрын
@@Persian341 God Knows !!!
@polishhussarmapping258
@polishhussarmapping258 9 ай бұрын
Suggestion: Proto-Uralic vs Proto-Eskimo-Aleut vs Proto-Yukaghir
@minimodecimomeridio4534
@minimodecimomeridio4534 9 ай бұрын
Oh God, yes please 😛
@Nakkisesonki
@Nakkisesonki 9 ай бұрын
Could be interesting since theres some similarities and the theory of eskimo-uralic
@polishhussarmapping258
@polishhussarmapping258 9 ай бұрын
@@Nakkisesonki yeah and the theory makes some sense
@famitsus987
@famitsus987 5 ай бұрын
@@Nakkisesonkilol
@famitsus987
@famitsus987 5 ай бұрын
@@polishhussarmapping258nope proto indo European and proto Uralic are related tho stop with the north east Asian supremacy nonsense we wuzing all the Time
@DukeCyrus
@DukeCyrus 9 ай бұрын
I want to learn Finnish, so the proto Uralic numbers ticked at my ears
@gersonlevilazzaris4785
@gersonlevilazzaris4785 9 ай бұрын
Oikein hyvää
@ethanpearson853
@ethanpearson853 6 ай бұрын
There is similarity, but the change between the two was dramatic. Like, it went into severe softening of specific sounds. Trippy.
@jizhachok
@jizhachok 9 ай бұрын
Some word that have some similar. (It's doesn't so sereosly only fun and interesting teory, and i haven't fometic alfabet) ok'tō'w - kakteksa ςweuis - keui uοgom-uiγim uihrom - uirkäm sue - su uesti - uesim
@Dora_Enjoyer
@Dora_Enjoyer Ай бұрын
Also pronounces are similar. For example English "me" and Mokshan "mon", Latin "tu" and Mokshan "ton". I also found word ved' wich is similar to "water" There are really much similarities
@hansrobert7155
@hansrobert7155 9 ай бұрын
Completely different languages
@Lausanamo
@Lausanamo 8 ай бұрын
Not really. I'd say they are about as related to each other as english and russian. Their common ancestor might have been spoken a very long time ago.
@justinnamuco9096
@justinnamuco9096 7 ай бұрын
The patrilineal ancestors are Ancient North Eurasians from tens of thousands of years ago. We can also consider that both Proto-Indo-European and Proto-Uralic were spoken more than 6,000 years ago.
@BombardierTraxx
@BombardierTraxx 5 ай бұрын
​@@Lausanamo I agree.
@famitsus987
@famitsus987 5 ай бұрын
Both are related close
@gustaf3811
@gustaf3811 4 ай бұрын
​@@Lausanamo they are as related as Chinese and Arabic. So not very close at all.
@guernica5413
@guernica5413 9 ай бұрын
You really amaze your subscribers!
@Ghusich
@Ghusich 9 ай бұрын
Kakteksa and ükteksä can NOT be PROTO-Uralic, these two are Western-Uralic innovation, not shared with many other branches.
@joooo9806
@joooo9806 7 ай бұрын
Kakteksa and ükteksä were actually developed from the root words kakte (2) and ükte (1) and teksä/teksa means without. As in a reference to them being "one or two away from ten"
@Davlavi
@Davlavi 8 ай бұрын
Very cool.
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 2 ай бұрын
Great video, I would love to see Proto-Turkic vs Volga Tatar next
@kevinszabo6936
@kevinszabo6936 8 ай бұрын
The „uralic” numbers: ükte [ˈykte]: Finno-permic (finno-mari?) käktä [ˈkæktæ]: uralic kolme (korma) [ˈkolme][ˈkormɑ]: finno-ugric neljä [ˈnelʲːæ][ˈneʎːæ]: finno-ugric vitte [ˈvitːæ]: uralic, means 10 in samoyedic kutte [ˈkutːe]: finno-ugric ćäjćemä [ˈt͡ɕæjt͡ɕeˌmæ]: disputed kakteksa [ˈkɑkteksɑ]: finnic, „two from ten” ükteksä [ˈykteksæ]: finnic, „one from ten” luka [lukɑ]: finni-ugric, finnic variants mean „number” Proto-uralic probably used base 6 number system.
@mysteriousDSF
@mysteriousDSF 9 ай бұрын
There are some related words between the two, for example Water - vesi Name - nimi Whale - Kala (means fish) I'm using English / Finnish examples. Pie and proto-uralic were probably more similar. Every language family is related if you go back far enough. You can find such connections between many proto languages. For example number four is also something like näl in Proto-Dravidian, the same as in Proto-Uralic.
@user-xg9yg8kg7i
@user-xg9yg8kg7i 9 ай бұрын
Those might be borrowings or coincidences. The grammar structure is too different and 50-100 similar words isn't enough at all.
@carl8703
@carl8703 9 ай бұрын
I'm sort of bummed we didn't get to see the pronouns because there are a lot of curious connections there between PIE and PU. Stems for first and second person pronouns in PU correspond closely to the oblique first and second person pronouns in PIE: PU nom sng/PU nom pl/PIE: *minä me me *tinä te te~twe Nominative PIE pronouns don't line up but other people (Lehmann) have commented that these were likely later innovations, i.e. the language that preceded PIE could have likely been pro-drop so it wouldn't need nominatives or would use them infrequently enough to make them prone to replacement. It's even more encouraging when you consider that pronouns are typically very conserved.
@monikaz8739
@monikaz8739 8 ай бұрын
​@@user-xg9yg8kg7iThe grammar is different from English, not so much from other languages still using lots of cases etc. though. Pronouns and some basic structures including forming negatives are similar as well, you can even intuitively recognize the person in the sentence (we, you, they, us etc) if you know a few Indo-European languages.
@theguybehindyou7418
@theguybehindyou7418 8 ай бұрын
Finnish has also similarities with Turkish: Olla - olmak ("to be") Ken/kuka - kim ("who") Sinä - sen ("you" sing.) Having a few words sounding similar and meaning the same doesn't necessarily mean, that these languages are related. PIE was a language with 3 genders, 3 numerals, no vowel harmony. Proto-Uralic on the other hand had vowel harmony, 2 numerals, no genders. So, not even a similarity in grammar was there between them.
@monikaz8739
@monikaz8739 8 ай бұрын
@@theguybehindyou7418 PIE and PU never actually existed. In reality, there were whole language spectrums, with the single related languages on the ends probably just as similar as Swedish is to Persian now. I do believe that the ancestors of those two groups (IE and U) were distant cousins, because the similarities just go too deep to be random. It's not just a few words.The only problem is that we would have to go so far back that we will probably never know for certain.
@matthiasdvorsakhillebrand2393
@matthiasdvorsakhillebrand2393 9 ай бұрын
Could you do some more indigenous languages from South America? Like Arawakan, Cariban, Macro-Gê, Guaicuruan, Chonan, Kunza, Dianguita, Muchika, Muisca, etc…?
@guernica5413
@guernica5413 9 ай бұрын
I would love if these appeared in the channel as well.
@danielhilderbrand7393
@danielhilderbrand7393 9 ай бұрын
They were on there if I remember
@matthiasdvorsakhillebrand2393
@matthiasdvorsakhillebrand2393 9 ай бұрын
@@danielhilderbrand7393 Yes, some, but not all of them. Most native languages from South America haven't been covered yet
@danielhilderbrand7393
@danielhilderbrand7393 9 ай бұрын
@@matthiasdvorsakhillebrand2393 I think she deleted them.
@nikhilalbert3084
@nikhilalbert3084 9 ай бұрын
Father and Mother of Proto Indo-Iranian and Proto Balto-Slavic.
@SogoNotDrunk
@SogoNotDrunk 9 ай бұрын
It has some similarities, especially I'm interesting about uogom uegontm/uiγim uiγita, kinda similar. But in other IT SO DIFFERENT
@amabarbigrl
@amabarbigrl 9 ай бұрын
Also ħulhneħ - uolë, uihrom - uikräm, kludhi - keulë, sue - su, uesti - uesim, kekluus - keulëtë, ʕʷeuis - keui, bēuˀgt - pukä. There is actually a surprising amount of similarities.
@SogoNotDrunk
@SogoNotDrunk 9 ай бұрын
yea!@@amabarbigrl
@jizhachok
@jizhachok 8 ай бұрын
​@@amabarbigrli think and ōkt'ow - kakteksa have some similar.
@ZZZ-gd7mz
@ZZZ-gd7mz 5 күн бұрын
These similarities can’t all be due to loans from PIE -> PUR
@norielgames4765
@norielgames4765 2 ай бұрын
There seem to be some sound analogs. Like most times when in PIE there's that weird ? With a w, the PU word has a k in it and looks suspiciously similar. Have these reconstructions been taken from different sources? Or was it done by the same people (with a possibility for bias towards convergent reconstructions)? Also, I've seen a PIE reconstruction that had a k instead of an n for the number one, which looks close to the PU number one.
@japaneseapoist286
@japaneseapoist286 9 ай бұрын
Accroding to he linguistics, there is positive and negative cultural exchange. Some proto-uralic words derived from PIE, some word are with laryngeal sound. but unfornately, uralic people use the word of the original PIE ethnic group name as "slave" or "servant" like the slavic people.
@claudioflocco7456
@claudioflocco7456 9 ай бұрын
Keui…not so different from gweuis 🤔
@ibrohimh9976
@ibrohimh9976 9 ай бұрын
Proto-Indo-European sounds like Latin
@alejo7625
@alejo7625 9 ай бұрын
A bit
@ibrohimh9976
@ibrohimh9976 9 ай бұрын
​@@Nwk843Proto-Indo-European did not sound like Latin
@xleplex7070
@xleplex7070 8 ай бұрын
@@Nwk843Why are you so rude? He just posted his opinion. He didn’t even say anything controversial.
@cheerful_crop_circle
@cheerful_crop_circle 8 ай бұрын
Proto-Indo-European sounds like the mother of my language
@Nullius_in_verba
@Nullius_in_verba 5 ай бұрын
@@Nwk843 I dont think he stated that Latin is not IE, only that maybe could seems strange that we could resemble so much latin in PIE, as if the reconstruction could have been forced by the old languages that are better recorded. Not so strange in some cases anyway, Gallic was very similar to Latin that I found italo-celtic connection plausible. Germanic is aberrant in some way, even Greek but you can find some ancient Greek in PIE instead of German sound.
@leonardoschiavelli6478
@leonardoschiavelli6478 9 ай бұрын
Previously I thought Uralic & Indo-European clusters weren't related at all, despite their vicinity with each other. However, after watching this comparison, I'm starting to change my mind... (how vast could be this world indeed) 😱
@hrcek8609
@hrcek8609 9 ай бұрын
There are linguists who think that the the Indo-Europeanness of some Uralic elements are because of contact between the speakers of Pre-Proto-Tocharian and Pre-Proto-Uralic. Before that contract, (pre-)proto-Uralic was probably even less Indo-European than it already is.
@Nakkisesonki
@Nakkisesonki 9 ай бұрын
We arent
@justinnamuco9096
@justinnamuco9096 8 ай бұрын
the proto languages gotta have ancestors
@kriwient
@kriwient 8 ай бұрын
Proto-Indo-European is a language isolate. If it is related to Proto-Uralic it is from too long ago to have retained any similarities.
@Lausanamo
@Lausanamo 8 ай бұрын
​@@kriwientWho knows?
@channel-izyUkrudunSHiU6533tZ
@channel-izyUkrudunSHiU6533tZ 9 ай бұрын
Idk what proto uralic thought of 8 and 9, in hungarian it's just so different.
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 2 ай бұрын
Hungarian is different because of foreign (mainly Slavic, Iranic and Turkic) influences and isolation, it literally has it's own branch in Ugric languages which includes Mansi, Szekely and Hungarian
@channel-izyUkrudunSHiU6533tZ
@channel-izyUkrudunSHiU6533tZ 2 ай бұрын
@@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 yes by the way székely is not a language, it's just a dialect of Hungarian, mainly known for their special phrases. (It's even closer to Hungarian than Csángó, which is also considered as a dialect)
@clankb2o5
@clankb2o5 9 ай бұрын
I wonder if it will ever be proven that they are related... I know a handful of professional historical linguists who believe that
@NederFinn
@NederFinn 9 ай бұрын
Yvnùs, ùjùm erkìs? Mjù kvàl. Eystòn kvàl mjù eltar Mium yt nenuk yrenmòn. Mièlkone 😊 Ryyfòn talte kjeln
@jamesfranklin458
@jamesfranklin458 8 ай бұрын
i want to believe
@MikerBikerB
@MikerBikerB 2 ай бұрын
Hard to deny they have a common origin, when you see this
@luneg777
@luneg777 9 ай бұрын
But the Uralic and Indo-European ones are too different. Even Altaic languages ​​are closer to the Uralic languages
@Ghusich
@Ghusich 9 ай бұрын
Not sure: there is even an Indo-Uralic proposition, based on similar lexics.
@tommytowner792
@tommytowner792 8 ай бұрын
@@Ghusich There are propositions of every single language family being connected. Just because those two are the only language families you know doesn't mean that those are the only propositions.
@Ghusich
@Ghusich 8 ай бұрын
@@tommytowner792 I don't know what d'you mean saying _those two are the only language families you know_ - Indo-Uralic is a strong movement among modern linguists, seemes to be far more progressive than Uralo-Altaic or Indo-Altaic hypotheses. And all the three branches are believed to be core-Nostratic.
@tommytowner792
@tommytowner792 8 ай бұрын
@@Ghusich According to who? According to your Indo-European masters?
@Ghusich
@Ghusich 8 ай бұрын
@@tommytowner792 Taneli Europæus, Vilhelm Thomsen, etc. and their followers from many countries, including linguistically Finno-Ugric countries. That's about Indo-Uralic. Then, do you personally reject the Nostratic theory at all? We can _reject_ , but we need _explain_ the similarities within the Indo-European, Altaic, Uralic, Kartvelian, Dravidian and even Afroasiatic languages.
@aprendizercomygor
@aprendizercomygor 8 ай бұрын
It seems increasingly likely that PIE and Uralic have very different origins in genetics, culture and geography, but got into increasing contact from the Late PIE and especially early daughter families (Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic, especially) stages. Uralic is probably from Central Siberia, spreading to the Urals, then only from the Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age onwards to Northeast Europe, absorbing IE peoples. Indo-Uralic is most probably a myth.
@parisan9985
@parisan9985 7 ай бұрын
Found you, Ygor Gof*ckho, the evil Uqora
@PDannyZhang
@PDannyZhang 9 ай бұрын
Arctic Lauguages are like lisp~
@ggarzagarcia
@ggarzagarcia 9 ай бұрын
I thought you were going to do other languages inside Proto Info European,, such as Anatolian. Love your videos, but I’m not sure why compare two completely different language families.
@amabarbigrl
@amabarbigrl 9 ай бұрын
Because obviously they are not completely different
@priteshamburle3034
@priteshamburle3034 9 ай бұрын
What about proto indo aryan
@hattivatti3000
@hattivatti3000 9 ай бұрын
Numbers Are almost same in Finnish still
@Ghusich
@Ghusich 9 ай бұрын
Cause they are not proto-Uralic here, just Finno-Ugric of the late stage with some western innovation. Only numbers 2 and 5 have attested Uralic cognates.
@channel-izyUkrudunSHiU6533tZ
@channel-izyUkrudunSHiU6533tZ 9 ай бұрын
Numbers can be understood as a hungarian Kakta - kettő Kolme - három Nelja - négy Witte - öt Kutte - hat
@closetmonster5057
@closetmonster5057 9 ай бұрын
@@Ghusich Number 7 also has cognates in Samoyedic languages, so it too goes back to Proto-Uralic.
@Ghusich
@Ghusich 9 ай бұрын
@@closetmonster5057 But it can be a borrowing from some Indo-European source.
@user-pk9qo1gd6r
@user-pk9qo1gd6r 8 ай бұрын
This sounds suspiciously too similar to Finno-Permic to actually be Proto-Uralic.
@LittleGreenMartian-js8wv
@LittleGreenMartian-js8wv 9 ай бұрын
Interesting video, my only complaint is that it is using an outdated pronunciation system for PIE, e.g. pronouncing the laryngeals as pharyngeals when it's now considered far more likely that they were velar instead.
@abdullahsartas5948
@abdullahsartas5948 9 ай бұрын
Proto Turkic plz
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 2 ай бұрын
he made a vid about Proto-Turkic
@enescelik7016
@enescelik7016 9 ай бұрын
Can you put proto-altaic instead of proto-uralic pleaseeeee
@Nullius_in_verba
@Nullius_in_verba 5 ай бұрын
I dont think it could be reconstructed, if exist.
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9
@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 2 ай бұрын
"Proto-Altaic" doesn't exist, what exists are Proto-Turkic, Proto-Mongolic, Proto-Tungusic, Proto-Japonic and Proto-Korean. These languages don't share a common origin
@Uralicchannel
@Uralicchannel 2 ай бұрын
Indo-Uralic is false
@vpvnsf
@vpvnsf Ай бұрын
They never claimed that Indo-Uralic was true, which I doubt is even hypothesized.
@person-yu8cu
@person-yu8cu 9 ай бұрын
speculation and cherry-picking.
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