As a Pikmin fan, I’m just glad we got our per decade entry in the series. See you guys in 2034 for Pikmin 5.

Neutering the motion controls in a Nintendo franchise that helped pioneer it is a sure fire way to awaken Nerrel's inner demons.

I loved Pikmin 4 to death but I can totally understand the controls really hurting the experience. The fact auto-lock isn't optional and there aren't more control options in general is baffling.

Pikmin 3 Deluxe's controls were basically perfect. You could freely aim your cursor independently of where you walk, and you had the OPTION to press a button to lock your cursor onto the nearest target. In Pikmin 4, the manual lock on is useless because the auto lock on is already clingy enough.

"Gummy" is a perfect way to describe the menus

Pikmin 1: fighting the pikmin ai Pikmin 2: fighting the devs Pikmin 3: fighting the time gap between title releases Pikmin 4: fighting the controls

I find it really interesting that Nintendo chose Pikmin 4 to be their first game (to my knowledge) developed in a third party engine like Unreal Engine 4. Curious to see how much more we'll see this in the future.

9:07 to the defense of this enemy, pikmin will automatically attack the "gold" objects. This enemy's purpose is to disarray you by messing with your treasure finder, and forcing pikmin to suddenly ignore you. That being said, I agree with the points on the mechanics to control Pikmin. It is probably my least favorite thing in this game. I feel like I lose a bit of the freedom in how I throw Pikmin. Sometimes I'm trying to grab an item, and for some reason my cursor targets something behind me, and something that's not even close. I have to move the camera in a certain way just to properly collect something, which really halts and hinders the sense of flow I'm going for in trying to complete a mission with complete proficiency. Not having to count Pikmin when grabbing an item can be convenient, but honestly it's annoying when my A button is suddenly not doing anything. It feels kinda cluttered, and can be especially annoying when it comes to certain things like nectar, or the spider bosses mentioned. Wished they kept it simple like in Pikmin 1 and 2. Yeah you have to put a bit more effort aiming and counting how many Pikmin you toss out, but in my opinion it also gives you much more freedom in control. If they really wanted auto-targeting, they should have done it the same way Pikmin 3 did, never had any issues with how it was handled there. There are other small complaints I have about my overall experience, but that being said, this is definitely my second favorite in the series, One chocked full of content I did not expect for it to have. And I had a genuinely great time playing through this game

9:02 To be fair, with that enemy in particular, it's an intended effect for the pikmin to be distracted by the shiny rocks that fall off of it.

limiting pikmin types and telling us exactly what ones we need at all times really sucks and removes a lot of the decision-making. always having the right tools and always having time to do it winds up really diminishing room for strategy and player expression outside of the dandori challenges

Fun Fact. If you press and hold the A Button, it overrides the auto aiming and lets you freely use the gyro aiming with ease.

The only thing i hate is the multiplayer, was it really that hard to make oatchi the 2nd player

I’m so sick of automation and oversimplification being the mythical duct tape of game devs nowadays. If someone wasn’t interested in your game when it had it’s unique fun and challenges, why the fuck would not actually being able to play be your solution? Nobody can ever just be happy for the fans they accumulate, they always need to reconceptualize the fucking wheel in hopes of winning over fans of cubes and pyramids. As if it’s not a matter of taste, but “Everyone else is just too darn stupid to understand why my game is a masterpiece and if I just make it as dumb as them them they’ll all love it!” Jesus fucking christ.

For once, I'm happy a big reviewer made a review with a lot of negativity on a game I love. I absolutely adored Pikmin 4, but there's so many flaws that really dampened my experience, and I don't see a ton of people talking about those flaws. The small restrictions that Nintendo made to make the game "more accessible" feels almost arbitrary to a point, where they could've easily made it an toggleable feature, or they could've just not added it in the first place, and it would've made the game significantly better in my eyes. I love Pikmin 4 so much, but damn, it really could have been better with such simple changes.

honestly the unnecessary deaths are some of my favorite parts of pikmin, in the same way that the stupid and frustrating AI of the first game makes it feel more like you're dealing with creatures that aren't always going to understand exactly what your intentions are. it's a weird crossroad of actual intention and limited design options

Actually failing olimars quest is pretty funny with how easy it is

they definitely need to add an auto-lock toggle feature in an upcoming patch. idk why it wasn't optional from the start

My exact feelings as a Pikmin veteran. Each new mechanic alone changes the gameplay in a sutble way. But all added up, it was a drastic change to the core gameplay. Too much streamlining can disrupt the flow of the gameplay loop. Which robs a game of some of its essence.

Do a review of the Three Stooges on the NES next.

I didnt have too many annoyances with controlling pikmin but most of my fighting was spamming charge either alone or with Oatchi rather than trying to throw precisely (but maybe that was BECAUSE throwing controls were sticky and awkward).

I played the gamecube version of pikmin 1 recently and found the game and its controls just fine. I think its a good starting point.

I loved this game, I just wish the controls weren’t so annoying

I started Pikmin with New Play Control Pikmin on the Wii and have played every game in the series. There is no beating Wii Remote aiming, but I can confidently say that this game would be the best in the series IF ONLY YOU COULD TURN OFF THE AUTO AIM!!! It really ruined the experience for me, which is a shame because there's such a good game in there underneath that frustrating mechanic.

In defense of the "decoy targets" section, the footage you show is an intended decoy mechanic meant to trip your Pikmin up. That said, I know what you mean; the autolock definitely messes with efficiency. I got used to manual locking 99% of the time, though.

Pikmin 4 is a game for ants with more content than an average AAA game.

I do think Pikmin 4 is still a quality game that's just in desperate need of a free tiny quality of life update that gives us more options and maybe a new game plus for late-game unlocks. I'm crossing my fingers we get that sooner rather than later.

i played occasionally single player, but when the 2nd player played, they had no aiming lock on, it was also a pretty powerful thing to have even if there's no "player 2" given the free items that normally cost raw material for p1 to use. but man it would have been cool to have a dedicated 2 captains playing mode, maybe in the dlc for pikmin 2's story mode into 4

As an experienced Pikmin fan, the auto lock was a minor inconvenience at worst. I never really experienced these horribly frustrating situations everyone else seems to have, though I do think I'd turn it off given the option

There's something about Nerrel's sense of humor that I utterly enjoy. "Now there's a Pikman." might as well be my favorite Joker quote from now on.

"In pikmin 3 I would reset constantly to save pikmin, but in this game it always felt like the little bastards deserved it." Is a weird yet accurate way of describing the pikmin worth difference between these two games.

full series spoilers ... I 100% agree that the Engulfed Castle is a major highlight of the game, but the issue I have with it is that it already *was* a major highlight of Pikmin 2. It's an almost 1 to 1 recreation of the Submerged Castle, and besides the ledges and gates to justify having Oatchi there it barely has any new ideas. It's just one of the most memorable parts of Pikmin 2 that is now also in Pikmin 4. In comparison to the Formidable Oak in Pikmin 3, which is also based around the Submerged Castle, it gets even more rough. Sure, the Mysterious Life-Form is definitely based off of the Waterwraith, but the whole segment is wildly different than in 2. For starters, it's not the same map, which I feel is the least that Pikmin 4 should have done. Additionally, you're also getting chased the whole time, and the obstacles are set up so it's more like an escape room sequence instead of a collect-everything-and-get-outta-here experience. It also helps that you're not literally just getting chased by the same Waterwraith from again, and it has different properties and methods of attacking. This sort of deviation and creativity with new ideas isn't even remotely present in the Engulfed Castle, and in my opinion the entire game as a whole has this same problem. Besides Oatchi and the way the overworld is designed, there aren't really any new exciting ideas. There are new enemies but most of them rely heavily on "you need to use Oatchi's rush" and others are just elemental variations of existing enemies. Most of the bosses you encounter are ripped from Pikmin 2, and half of the "new" bosses are just variations of older ones (the worst being the normal enemies that are just big now). The last boss is an exception to this (besides it being Louie riding a thing again but without the subtlety of whether he's actually controlling it), but the fight itself has it's own problems. It deviates to an extreme degree from the rest of the series as a whole, where you have to actually wait for it to do its thing before you get a chance to attack with multiple phases. It involves a *lot* of waiting around in comparison to almost every other boss in the series, where the whole battle is in an 'always vulnerable, always dangerous' state. I personally do like the boss fight, but it does feel like it relies 99% on the platforming abilities of Oatchi and barely on actual Pikmin gameplay, which seems like a negative change altogether. Comparing it to Pikmin 3 again, the actual fight portion of the Plasm Wraith uses all of Pikmin gameplay completely, having to command different Pikmin to defeat different cubes while simultnaeously dodging the Wraith's attacks. It's like the opposite of the final boss in Pikmin 4, and by extension the final boss of 4 is the opposite of what the series has been known for up to this point. Pikmin 4 is by no means a bad game and I do love it, but after my first playthrough I was really disappointed. I get that the game is supposed to cater to new players, but they literally just rereleased the first two games on Switch so now the whole main series is on there, so it makes very little sense to have to cater to them to the point of almost exclusively retreading old ideas. For someone who has praised the games for being its own unique thing each time (they're all tied for me quality-wise but in different aspects), Pikmin 4 being mostly consistent of old ideas (ideas that felt more complete in Pikmin 2) really dampered a lot of it for me. This whole comment is really poorly formated because KZfaq mobile moment (and off-topic with the final boss thing) but hopefully I got my feelings across.

I also kind of feel like the music in Pikmin 4 is a big downgrade from the rest of the series, but maybe that was just the sound mixing? I felt like I was never able to hear the music and there were no options to increase music volume specifically

As an experienced Pikmin player (having played all the mainline entries, excluding Hey! Pikmin), I didn't have as many issues with auto-lock as other people did; it might've had a couple hiccups here and there, but other than that, it was still a fantastic experience. I'll say my only gripe with the game was the Oatchi commands and Item menu; it takes so long to open that I never bothered to give it a chance.

I didn't have as many problems with the controls personally, Especially with large groups of items the charge mechanic bypasses the unnecessary lock-on. while I wouldn't say the controls make the game unplayable (I find that to be a little hyperbolic), I think there should have been more control options too the player.

Holy shit Nerrel Pikmin review - what a time to be alive.

THANK YOU, Ive been wanting to make a neurell style video on my opinions on pikmin4 the way you made one for totk but its great to hear it from the horses mouth

You can customize the shortcuts at anytime. You can even assign them to control stick presses

Loved the comments on the controls and how intrusive they are to gameplay. I really hope they never come back, or at least that they come back with toggles.

One thing I've never seen anyone mention, which I had more problems with than the auto-aim, was that the pikmin-type icon at the end of the cursor kept getting in the way, so I couldn't always see how many pikmin a task needed.

I dont know i feel about oatchi. Hes such a powerful tool that defies a lot of pikmin conventions, like trying to control the army following you. Im glad hes here, but the fact he can do so much and so perfectly takes away some unintentional charm.

The auto-lock on and throw stop assist controls are by far the #1 complaint I hear about Pikmin 4. I'm surprised Nerrel didn't mention the baffling decision to make the most fun and useful upgrades (Lineup Trumpet, Plucking Whistle, Oatchi's infinite rush) impossibly late unlocks. The former can be fixed by an update, but the latter we are probably stuck with unless you download one of several mods that fix the upgrades. Edit: The gyro aim in Pikmin 4 has had a mixed reception, but I like it. I've always felt comfortable with the classic stick controls in Pikmin 1 and 2. Stick controls + gyro helps with stuff stick controls can't do, which is mainly whistling far away Pikmin. Throwing Pikmin as far as gyro aim allows is rarely necessary, but also isn't that hard in Pikmin 4's gyro implementation. IMO, the way Nintendo did Pikmin 4's gyro aim eliminates the constant gyro drift which Pikmin 3 Deluxe suffered from, which is a win. The classic stick controls might rely on auto-lock on like a crutch in Pikmin 4, sure, but I bet it could work just as well with a manual lock on.

I loved Pikmin 4 and I love Pikmin in general, but I absolutely agree with what you said about the controls, specially the auto lock. I knew there was something wrong when I went back to Pikmin 1 after beating Pikmin 4 and I actually prefered the controls from Pikmin 1 since I could freely move the cursor

“Gummy UI” feels like a game gaslighting me into thinking something is wrong with the controller (or the connection is blocked). Glad I’m not actually crazy, but also irritated that anyone would ever implement a delay on text boxes.

That Zoolander joke will never get old to me

Nerrel you absolute legend, I wish you uploaded more since you’re my favorite KZfaqr

I truly love the videos you make! Thank you.

Experienced Pikmin player here. I don't feel like I had nearly as many issues with the controls as you did. But I typically take a slower, more methodical approach to Pikmin. even the bosses that FEEL like they're enticing you into chaos always have a tell or a way to control the situation.

I wish there were at least more options for controls. I also wish some of the game mechanics were introduced earlier in the game rather than way later. I really wish we got the leader horn way earlier. It would have made avoiding boss attacks way easier. But overall a great game with some flaws. Can't wait for the pikmin modders to get their hands on it :)

as a new comer the controls piss me off

4 was my introduction to the series and I loved it so much I went back and bought the rest. I agree with your opinion on the controls being limiting with one exception. That boss creature with the gold stuff on its back I'm pretty sure when those things are knocked off I think its intentional that your pikmin are drawn to it like the iridescent flint beetle. It's the wrinkle to that fight and it's okay to not like it, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't a mistake.

I've never played the Wii versions of Pikmin 1 and 2 I played them on Gamecube, I haven't played 4 yet but I guess I can't relate to people saying the first 3 games without gyro have shit controls

Honestly, I didn't have too hard a time with the controls. Sure, the weird auto lock on can be annoying, but I found it easy to work around with the gyro. With throwing bombs, for example, if it locks onto something you don't want, just shift the reticle over to the thing you do want to blow up. I tend to also keep my distance from enemies and such, which seems to make switching between targets a little easier. With the manual lock, you can switch between targets by just pressing the lock button again, too. Maybe this'll help some of you guys out there, but more likely I'm just weird.

9:20 I firmly believe that the Pikmin doing stupid, chaotic things is part of the gameplay. It’s certainly not new to Pikmin 4.

The auto lock being something the game doesn't make optional was one of my biggest gripes with this game. It just felt like I was playing a click & pointer game at points. I still really enjoyed the game but a few tweaks and changes here and there would of made it a masterpiece. The few things I disliked/would change - Make the game harder -Oatchi while fun made the game super easy - Added more underwater segments - Graphically the game shined in these areas and we're fun but just felt like afterthoughts - Online multiplayer - Bingo battle bring it back I loved it

As a Pikmin fan since '02, I had the opposite problem with the controls. I found they simplified things too much, and made the game too easy for me. I never encountered a single problem with them not doing what I wanted, but I'd love the challenge of being able to play without auto-lock. I always played Pikmin 3 with the Gamepad however, so It's likely that it was easier for me to adjust to the new control scheme, because I never tried playing with the Wii Remote/Gyro controls. Pikmin 4 is a great entry for newcomers, but the challenge leaves a lot to be desired for fans like myself. I beat Olimar's Shiprwreck tale on my first try in twelve days without ever seeing a Pikmin loss, and could likely beat it faster if I cared enough to replay it. I hope we get a "Hard mode" update that ramps up the difficulty, allows us to turn off the automated controls on all modes -- Because other than the lack of difficulty, this is probably my favorite game in the series. It's so close to being perfect, that I hope Nintendo decides to take the extra step to _make_ it perfect.

Probably getting this for the holiday. I was a big fan of Pikmin 3 on Wii U. Only reason I haven’t gotten 4 yet is because I’m trying to work on my backlog. Everything I’ve seen from 4 looks extremely polished.

i was really beginning to think no one actually saw the flaws in this game great video!

(9:00) I do believe that for this specific boss (and the smaller variants), the pikmin being distracted by the gold "nuggets" is intentional.

As a newcomer to the series, I feel the auto-lock is helpful half the time and annoying the other half. The gyro is also weird in all kinds of ways. The fact it only activates after you throw or whistle is counter-productive as you said. I think my brain also keeps expecting it to be relative to the center of the screen or my own position rather than where the pointer is. I also wish ZR let you use the gyro freely instead of the weird manual pseudo-lock it does. I still love the game but having customizable controls would improve it immensely

9:01 I'd say part of the intended challenge with Gilldemander boss fight is that the Gold bits of treasure that fall of its back are supposed to be decoys that distract Pikmin. When the gold is knocked off, the Gildemander will try to pick it's gold back up, lapping up any pikmin that are currently latched onto it along the way. Since it is an "anglerfish", it makes sense it baits Pikmin with something Shiny and then eats them while their distracted. Aside from that, I'd wholeheartedly agree that fighting the auto-lock controls made getting Platinums in some of Dandori Challenges far harder than they should be.

ive been luke warm on this games release and this man managed to sell it to me in one minute

I found the most consistent results wrt aiming by straight up turning off gyro aim, because it's all kinds of effed to sunday in this game. As far as I was able to tell before it pissed me off enough to turn it off forever, gyro aim only activates _after_ you start pressing the throw button, and with my pretty shaky hands, it caused the auto aim to go from bad to _worse_ because I wasn't hitting anything anymore past the first pikmin thrown. What I found worked for me was embracing aim-locking and pressing the switch targets button like mad when needed. Essentially, it turned the fights from a frustrating throw everything at everything and hope it works out mess into a significant test of my reflexes, which at least was in my control in comparison. Still, pikmin and the wiimote were a match made in heaven, and we can only hope that the console pikmin 5 will be on will come with a controller aiming scheme that rivals the best two gamecubes stapled together in the world.

I'm a long-time Pikmin fan, and I did really enjoy Pikmin 4, but I found the difficulty and the streamlining really dampened my experience. One thing not mentioned in the video, that I admit is a pretty niche complaint I don't expect many other people were bothered by, is that I wasn't huge on was the large reuse of enemies/bosses from previous games. I really looked forward to seeing new enemies, but there didn't end up being very many. Even when new enemies do appear, many are simply elemental palette swaps. The behavioral/anatomical/ecological aspect to the enemies has always been a large draw for me so this was disappointing. There were elemental palette swaps in previous games, but it was mainly just the dweevils and blowhogs (which actually had a pretty well-reasoned rationale behind theirs - the watery blowhog had lost the capacity to ignite its lighter fluid) It made them feel less like rationalized fictional creatures and more like video game enemies. I certainly understand it from a game design perspective and I think some implausibility is part of the fun of fictional creatures, but it could have felt a bit more natural. I think the reuse really hurts the bosses too - The overworld bosses you just kind of obliterate immediately, and the ones in caves are almost entirely reused or just large versions of regular enemies. There weren't many "Oh no, how am I going to beat this thing?" moments for me and I didn't feel like I was exploring and finding new things as much as in previous games.

as a newbie to the series, i didnt mind the auto-lock and only had minimal frustrations with it, namely on some sage leaf trials or areas with a lot of items and/or enemies in close proximity. i can see where your critisism comes from though, and it certianly would have been preferable to be given some toggle options. i would have surely experienmented with other control options if they had been available to me!

I think the first two Pikmin games have the best controls. I love swarming and throwing them really fast in those games.

"It's like Lemmings. Another game you haven't played. Unless you are 40 years old" Me: *cold sweats*

As a beginner to the series, I found the controls to be overall very helpful. There were some cases where it wasn’t, but in most cases I quite liked it. There’s a gain and loss from these controls, and I find myself preferring them even if there’s a bit of a loss

Nerrel is the only person on the planet that could get me to watch a Pikmen related video

This is wild, I dont know if we are post control patch now or what, but ive been playing the past week and have had zero control issues that were frustrating in the ways described here. Game plays great, and I've played everything prior. There are aspects of those games and their respective controls that i miss, but this game feels like the best parts of all of those. The only things that ended up being challenging were the challenges that are meant to be the hardest ones. Really sad to hear that others are having a rougher experience.

The autolock definitely brought the game down a bit, but I would say it was far from a superlative like "unplayable" even in its worst moments... For me, anyway, but I happen to be good at Pikmin, lol. I do agree with your assessment on the game's issues.

The two "let me start over" bits got me.

Nerrel thank you so much for making a pikmin video 💯

I am just sad that we didn´t get more of the Pikmin 3 Coop-Mode. It is the ultimate 2 player experience.

I agree that Pikmin4 has sticky controls, but for a different reason. Many of the lock on issues go away by using the charge horn. It's faster than individual throws, and targets multiple objects at once, However, the game's controls practically go out of their way to make that inconvenient. You can't use it on Oatchi, so you have to fumble to get off of him to pick things up. I found the absolute best power up for the dog is lift strength. Get off him, assign him to the heaviest thing you can find, charge horn the Pikmin, and do things on foot with the troops you have left. If you time it in your head right, you can have Oatchi deliver the thing, and then command it to take the Pikmin at base to go to another part of the map while you're doing something else. It's satisfying to pull off, and I actually found it far less janky than the pool cue like aiming of the charge horn in Pikmin3. But, you can only do it after you fumble with the controls. I think the layout and menuing have the same issue as Tears of the Kingdom. Lots of things are divided in sets of four across the different buttons on the controller. You have to stop to figure out which button from which set to do things, but you're on the clock so you inevitably misclick three times in a row and in the process waste a spicy spray(I just straight up removed consumables from my quick select bar and replaced it with Long distance Oatchi/Pikmin commands since that's usually what I'm fumbling for anyways.) This compartmentalization style of controls simply don't work. Nobody using an interface consciously thinks of the button they're pressing. They rely of muscle memory to make the movements for them while their conscious mind is focused on choosing what task they want to do. You don't know how to type if you actively have to think about which button to press next. How did this even happen? Who suddenly started making these awful design decisions?

Nerrel's reviews are great. Only played the demo for this one but what really stood out for me was the stiffness and annoying controls/lock on. It seems such a step back from 3 (especially the deluxe version) that you have to wonder what happened.

10:50 LOL "This is no time for a history lesson!" Nice add to that section. xD

I think my abuse of the charging whistle led to me enjoying the controls. The only time I didn't enjoy them was when I didn't have it at the start of Olimar's side mode.

I barely finished Pikmin 4 with only beating the main story boss and allowing the night mode to stack all the leaf people i've saved in the hub with like 20 people just laying there as the game gave me no reason to clear it. This game does a lot of good quality of life changes and additions but there were some elements as shown in the video that took me out on my experience. This game does major hand holding from start to finish and is butt ass easy with features like Oatchi and advising the player to rewind rather than letting the player think for themselves. Pikmin 4 is not a bad game but i find it rather weak considering where we're at in this series and being the fourth game coming out after a decade wait.

I personally didn’t mind the controls. Yeah, the controls were smoother in Pikmin 3, but Oatchi makes up for so much and bypasses most of these situations.

Nerrel's thoroughness about these products takes a load off my plate

They should have as a target lock switch button to switch between nearby enemies/targets and non linear caves like pipes, ect.

If only we had Ochi the jedi hunter trying to carry bombs but then tripping and blowing up an entire squad of Pikmin. Would have been a very different game.

You're right about the controls. The Infrared pointer & Gyro Controls of the Wii Remote/Wii U Gamepad were a treat, which allowed for much more fluidity & precision which the Switch does not offer. I hope the rumoured "Switch 2" brings back the pointer of the Wii Remote in the Joycons.

Leave it to Nerrel to always point out flaws I had never considered before but totally agree with

I really didn't have problem with the control, you just have to change how to approach things like fight or collect and not to try to do both, this also helped me with dandori stuff, also to battle more effectively you just have to use oatchi more, which I think is the reason for the autolock

The only issue i had woth control alis the auto lock on. Sometimes it isnt responsive enough. But that was pretty much it. This is also my first pikmin, so kaybe not knowing how the control scheme worked prior helped

control complaint that wasn't mentioned, if you're underwater with blue pikmin and oatchi is following above with pikmin on his back the type select will keep switching back to him when I use charge even though I can't use him, very frustrating for frantic fights where my attention can't be spared on it. it doesn't tend to lead to my squad dying but it is very annoying.

I love this guy he always dose the kind of meaningful game analysis that you don’t see in reviews

I had very few problems with the control scheme, but I also never play with Gyro aiming since I'm so accustomed to the Gamecube titles.

I think your points about the auto-lock are fair (even though It's possible to switch targets with manual lock by pressing ZR, which you didn't mention). But with your points about the Pikmin AI, It's worth remembering that they've always acted like that. Sure, just because previous games did it doesn't mean It's okay for this one to do it too, but if anything, I think 4 has the best Pikmin AI in the series, especially because of some improvements that you didn't mention such as the Pikmin no longer entering water even if you enter it, or not carrying objects through hazards they aren't immune to.

I've played Lemmings, but you're going to have to give me a lot more time for the 40 years old part. Really wish a lot of the control streamlining changes would just be toggles instead of mandatory.

Honestly I thought you gave the game a bit of a free pass, as the newer games kill a lot of the other ways to play, 3 removed a lot of the fun and difficult enemies like the Water Wraith (who was so... so much faster in 2), or otherwise nerfing them. The combat in the early games was also a lot better, with the player needing to dodge attacks (which is much harder with 100 Pikmin behind you) and pay attention to many aspects of the boss, whereas in 3 most of the enemies are dealt with in seconds and bosses are dealt with in 2-5 minutes on a replay, with few actually threatening attacks, though the final boss of the story and side stories do a good job at fixing it. 4 only makes the lack of engagement from combat worse, as now not only are caves returning, but the newly introduced Pikmin types along with Oatchi break the game in half, making combat more like Mario than the previous games. What I mean by that is that when you enter a boss room, the genre switches from a Rts game with puzzle and combat elements to a platformer. The final boss is especially guilty of this, having so many health caps and scripted events it plays like a Koopaling from the New Super Mario Bros games, with very restrictive and oftentimes boring attack patterns, I lost interest about 3/4ths of the way through and didn't feel any of the satisfaction or relief beating a tough boss in any game should give you. The time challenges are also a downgrade from 3, which handled them nearly perfectly, having larger areas with more interconnected paths, but also more room to make mistakes, the challenge has many solutions, and every attempt I had the opportunity to try something new. Not to mention all the more varied challenges that try designing things different like the Thirsty Desert Remix, which gives the player very few Pikmin (only 35 total) but a lot of candypop buds, so the player has to convert your Pikmin as you go along so you can finish in time. 4 lacks this variety and feels bland for it, having comparably smaller and way more linear rooms, and the timer gets much stricter later on, so the player is forced to use the intended route, with the games many caps (opening doors taking time, conveyors you have to wait on, etc), once you hit a certain level of skill, it stops becoming an interesting challenge and transforms into a waiting game, mission after mission, challenge after challenge, cave after cave, it just all feels like padding with how many poorly designed enemies like the Watermelon Elephant (don't know the actual name), which has no difference from its smaller variant other than needing an extra charge and having more hp. It all just feels rushed and bogged down by Nintendo's ""accessibility"" features that reduce the accessibility of the game to veterans such as myself, I know this is a controversial opinion, but it's like, a 6/10 at best (with 5 being the average of most games, indie or AAA).

I never had the controls be remotely this bad as described and I've 100%'d the entire thing. The only part of 4 I can think of that the controls became an issue was that one sage trial with the 99 larva.

It's basically a chill collectathon at this point. Great for sales sure but the timer was so integral for me

I feel so called out as a Lemmings fan, that game was my childhood. I'm so old...

Huh, I also 100% this game and didn't have anywhere near as many issues with the controls as you did and I enjoyed it the whole way through. I wonder if your pikmin 3 senses were battling against pikmin 4s style?

00:39 wtf why am I being attacked

Nerrel is really ripping my heart out here by articulately describing all the terrible design choices that also annoyed me to no end.

As a pikmin fan Im really disappointed with P4. There was almost no challenge. Unlimited time makes the game too easy (not to mention the dog, rewinding time, free pikmin at home base)

Ya know, I loved the game, but I think I understand now why I haven't gone back to finish it yet. I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about the EXTREMELY HILARIOUS characters, either. Okay, they aren't that bad, but the fact that there is no time limit means that the characters try to convey urgency to the task at hand, then back off in the next sentence. It's not broken, but it is weird.