I'm glad you like this review, I was looking for video like that for a long time, usually you find videos of spindle cutting something or tool change in action, but no explanations. But i always have to know WHY? :) vibrometer app is not a reliable way of measuring spindle vibration, but it gives you a ball park reading. i guess it is missing half of the frequencies. If everyone would use this app to share the results, woe could have a rough standard we could compare to. I used this app to find a sweet spot on my previous spindle between speed and vibrations. so i can mill stuff with half decent finish and reduced chatter.

Glad it was helpful!

That’s how it works and it would be nice if people understood this.

How much are they now? I was getting ready to contact them.

Yes you are right there is still air backed up in that line. it needs to escape...

they have also smaller spindles with atc or without, so perhaps you could find one which will suit your machine. this spindle weight is around 15kg, i forget to mention

If You have a 1605 ballscrewspindle it can hold and move the weight of 15kg.

CNCPRINT.BLOGSPOT yes, I actually got a 1605 and servo motora with plenty of torque but adding more weight to the gantry will cause me to go a bit slower or lower my acceleration to keep the surface finish still good

Very nice Piotr. I’m also super impressed with the quality of this ATC spindle you have. And the price seems very reasonable. (Pity the current USD:NZD exchange rate is so bad!!)

with this 2.2kw cheap spindle i couldn't go higher than 12.000 rpm, chatter was terrible, and the noise unbearable. i'm kinda disappointed that at some point microphone clipped and it wasn't recording the full spectrum of the roar.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I just setup a chinese 2.2kw $500 special (with the lot), and unless I have a setting wrong, it's really quiet at 24,000 rpm. To the point where I'm going to borrow and rpm meter and check it. To the point where I'm worried that at 10,000rpm someone will stick their hand in to check the vacuum, because they can't hear the spindle. Nothing like at all like the cheap one you show.

I guess you got lucky. Or I was unlucky.

@@MarkAW2003 Spindle vendor, model number please?

dont they call themselves the republic of china?

Amazingly quiet. You could mill in the middle of the night without your wife even knowing ;)

yes i will make part 2. and i will show some milling. but first i have to get use to this spindle and collect more questions to answer.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Great! Keep up the good work.

Please more aluminium milling videos, because i am tempted to buy it too. My standard 2.2kw water cooled spindle cant handle heavy aluminium milling.

I'm not sure what is your definition of heavy milling.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki fast cutting, 3000mm/min or even 4000, 4h job

i was wondering exactly the same thing but it doesn't need counterbalance . it weight 15 kg / 30 pounds

What do you think no answer means...!! I think that is your answer

@@mamoshimamoshian9078 yes, the silence is deafening.

@@mamoshimamoshian9078 1. youtube sux when you trying to find comments, 2 i dont have always a time to answer all the comments. 3 I already answered here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/np-hac1otbXLf30.html :)

@@molitovv 1. youtube sux when you trying to find comments, 2 i dont have always a time to answer all the comments. 3 I already answered here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/np-hac1otbXLf30.html :)

Can't tell precisely the flow but I will try to describe it. You should run it between 14 and 30psi. On a 50liter tank pressurized to 80psi it lasts for around 3-5 min before compressor turns on. I hope it helps

dzieki :) polecam obejrzenie calego cyklu robienia tego routera :)

WOW, that's AWESOME !! :) you have to make a video! or couple! I can't wait to see it.

I ordered direct from the manufacturer. Email them, the price will be better. I got mine for 1450 plus shipping.

@Sergeant Nomadic i have put all the information in the video description, shipping i think was around 130USD via TNT.

@Sergeant Nomadic I just got the preliminary stuff done last night. It runs through the routines. No error checking or anything yet but should work when I receive the spindle.

Please do

haha, I'm glad you like it :)

@David Ashenbrener You can do exactly same stuff on non ATC spindle. it will just take more time. so no drama here :) Air cooled vs water cooled. i prefer water cooled because its much more quiet. and When i use water cooling I'm not worried that water or chips will get in to the spindle. .

Awesome. Never thought of the chip issue. I use Kool Mist when matching alum. Cheap effective and concentrated for shipping cheaply. Keep up the great informative vids.

at the first look the price is high, but when you think about it its not that bad. you can always get one without the ATC. but when you try to run a small production its necessary. really, otherwise you will spend more time changing tools than actually milling.

no worries, My goal here was to show what is out there and the difference between cheap unbalanced spindle vs a decently balanced spindle. this one was balanced to G1 , there is a higher standard G0.4. which is an absolute perfection.

Parfaite are the tool holders which i have and spindle is from jianken. vfd is 2.2kw huanyang. you can find it in my other videos

I'm guessing but any branded company bearings will be better than those which are inside. Who knows maybe you where more lucky with your spindle than i was.

I kinda show it milling in the video after this one. since then i didn't had any free time to shoot any more videos and whatever projects I'm on currently are NDA.

you have to wait more or less 10 seconds, if you don't use air return(not sure why they call it like that, in my opinion it should be called a cylinder reset, or draw bar clamp) when you release tool using pressure, it fills the tool change cylinder inside the spindle to push draw bar down. draw bar has a spring which is pulling tool holder up. when you change the tool there is still some pressure inside the cylinder which is pushing the draw bar preventing spindle from rotating. you can speed it up by using the "air return" and this will move cylinder all way up. i guess you could do something similar by removing pressure from the hose which is connected to tool change. i will try to explain it better in part 2. i don't have much experience cutting steel on those spindles. but i would guess you need much slower rpm's or you just use smaller tools.

@Arnljot He used granite...granite, not epoxy granite.

If you use 90PSI for both, I would expect the dust seals to blow out or wear more quickly.

Hi, would that work with a single acting solenoid or does it have to be a double acting. Thanks.

@@johnlynch6589 A single acting solenoid will do. You only want to activate the solenoid during a tool change so only a short time while releasing the tool and picking the next one.

@@Rob_65 that’s great. thanks for your response. Would you possibly have a pneumatic diagram for the application as the info on line is a little confusing.. thanks.

unfortunately it wasn't there. and i looked everywhere.

bt30 in my opinion is more common. size wise its just 5mm more on the diameter. so beef wise not so much of a difference ;) recently i was milling something with 8mm end mill, 13mm deep and 1mm side cut. travel speed 1000mm/min. tool deflection is bigger problem than a tool holder.

Nikita Skakun what was price for that spindle (without VFD and TH)?

@@mezzoo2 $1200 USD, another ~$200 for the VFD, and ~$100 for each ER16 tool holder. Shipping was another $200.

I have 60 liters. Set at max 85psi and it kicks every 3-4 min. If you have your set to default 120 it would last for much longer.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the reply. According to the spindle specification, 1-2bar should be used for the air seal, which is equivalent to 15-30psi. I guess I could use trial and error to see what works best.

mowie po polsku i nawet jestem w stanie cos napisac jak musze :)

@@PiotrFoxWysocki No cóż, to tak jak ja po angielsku :) But I think it might be easier for others to read comments in english. May I ask you few more questions about this spindle? How much approximately one ISO collet cost? I assume you have to get around 5-10 pcs to work properly with ATC setup? Also what is the RPM range and tool diameters you are using? Im asking because Im seriously thinking about my router upgrade to ATC and Im not sure which JGL spindle will be the best for me... Now I have 2,2 kw standard watercooled spindle 24k rpm, 80 mm diameter and 8 kg weight and Im using 1-6 mm diameter mills with 0,05-0,3 depth of cut in 3-10k rpm range, mostly in titanium and steel. Z axis runs with 1,89 stepper and 1605 ballscrew. This spindle and setup works good and has enough torque for my needs. Do you think my router can handle JBL 100 spindle or should I search for something in JBL 80-85 series with 2,2 kw to get the same results like I have now but with ATC? I will really appreciate yours and others opinions about that matter, I saw that you used to work with similar steppers and spindles like mine before... Thanks!

holly smokes, this is one complicated question :) collets. actually they are tool holders and collets are inside tool holder. (i know i did mumble collets on the video:) ) i got collets from janken but they are getting them from the Parfaite in Taiwan and i paid 108usd a pop, those are really well done. but i saw some on ebay for 40usd. i guess those might not be as good. i'm not sure if i will buy cheap ones. i don't want to ruin my new spindle. 5-10 pieces :) yes i have been thinking the same way. if you run the same job over and over. sure this could be enough. but if you want to mill something else you will have to pull some tools out and change few. i got 7 and when i sit down to fusion i realized that i'm using more than 20 tools :) I guess its up to you to decide if your machine can handle JGL 100. if 2.2 is enough for you go with 2.2. JGL100 is much heavier and what i noticed is that at lower speeds it draws a lot of current. 1k rpm about 5A just to spin. 2k 4A and at 3K 3Amps. everything about around 2 and below. I'm guessing that the same spindle without tool changer would draw less at lower rpm, because shaft is lighter. maybe you could contact jianken and ask them what they recommend for those speeds. (or not they might recommend even bigger spindle :))

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thank you very much for your answers! I'm in the middle of conversation with factory and I'm waiting for their recomendation, also may I ask did you bought yours directly from factory contacting by email or some kind of platoform /shop like ebay /aliexpress? You have mentioned that customer service is really nice and as I can see its true, they are responding really quick :)

I got directly from them. But I paid via Alibaba. Using credit card. Way quicker and safer than bank transfers.

i have to ask why? according to the manufacturer i don't have too. but I'm open for suggestions.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki because of faster response and better force applikation on the tool. Mount a exhaust silencer or filter on the air outlet, that is much better, ive mounted one too

You need a 2/3 Way Festo Air Valve, 1 Air in, 2 ATC in, 3 airfilter. This valve opens just for the ATC process, after that you switch the valve.

I actually came back to this video to explain just this, the air needs to have somewhere to exhaust to, 2 position 4 way valve is what he needs(as you've described). They're pretty simple, but he definitely needs the 4 way, or the air gets trapped and only can leak out. You can also use a 5 port valve which will have separate exhaust ports.

If you want to test this, insert a new tool, release the air gun then unplug it - it'll exhaust quickly.

i use water mixed with isopropyl alcohol in closed bucket in dark cabinet. i guess you could use car radiator coolant as well, i guess.

Dont use antifreeze. It will eat away at the pipes over time. Unless your in a cold environment, antifreeze shouldn't be used in places not designed for them. Use pure water with an antibacterial additive

@@jacobamador7989 Thanks!

Some but not enough to advice on it

yes it is complete DIY cnc project, I recorded full making off. check my other videos. at the moment I'm using gecko 540 but i think it could change soon. ( i need more outputs) this spindle is not for low speed(it doesn't have any torque at low speeds), when you run it at 1000rpm, it draw up to 5 Amps, at 3000rpm 3Amps, 5000rpm and above it draw around 2 Amps. i guess its related to the weight of the shaft. i don't think tapping is possible on those spindles. From my experience I want to stay away from tapping as far i can. taps break, sooner or later. thread milling is much nicer and cheaper option, and even if you break a thread mill, you won't ruin your part.

True. I've only recently started to make good use of CAM which will allow me to thread mill in discrete x,y,z steps as my old Fanuc doesn't allow helical interpolation - at least that should give me a few possibilities.

400

I just ordered the 4-pole, 800Hz version after discussing with the folks at Jianken. Specifically, a JGL-100/3.2R24-30. I already had a 1kHz VFD. The reasoning was lower temperature / higher torque at lower RPM. Fox, you should be getting commissions from them 😜 At least freebies.

im going too, not sure when, but i would guess soonish.

Piotr Fox Wysocki thanks for your reply. I would say the current hard-where is doing pretty well. I am sitting with a Chinese router and cut a lot of Titanium, Zirconium and Ti-mascis, and I sit with a OMIO 2200x. It is something like the 60 x 40 you had. The machine has no rigidity what so ever. The problem I would say is due to the non rigidity, I brake or chip a lot of cutters. The other concern I do have is that the titanium family wants slower spindle speeds. Around 6000 rpm. Anything faster than that cause some buildup on the cutter and broken butters. I suspect I’m gonna have to go the build a rigid machine. !?!?🙈🙈 It looks like you make use of Mach3. Would you say it is a soft where you would recommend ??? Maybe something like Linux perhaps???

wow, what an eye :) i was wondering if you ask some other user who's name is ozito :) and than I was thinking, did i show anything with ozito? i don't have anything on the display from ozito :) than i fast forward the video and i found it :) on a bloody air blower handle mate! :) LMAO :D I'm close, New Zealand.

I was watching the whole video pretty closely! Very nice setup you've got, and its cool to see how you're using them for your flyingfoxcam product. Would be nice to see more video of it in action, and perhaps hear about how you learned CNC? I'm just a metal-cutting beginner, with a cheap 6040 with older 1.5kw spindle. It's just a hobby for me at the moment, but maybe one day... Hey - I actually have a lot of ozito stuff, including that same handle! Also, you're actually closer to me than perth! Just a little bit of water in the way... ;-)

I used to send designs to china and have stuff manufactured there. but their prices sky rocketed and now its more like retail prices. So I might try doing it my self. without freezing capital in large batch of parts,shipping, etc.. you will see it in action in my next video, I'm making vacuum fixture plate, mould for casting, casting custom gaskets and milling an actual part on it. should be interesting :) I started my cnc adventure from the exactly same machine :) for the beginner its god send. You can do lots of stuff. but it takes bloody ages. its like milling by polishing :) I also have few ozito tools. my favorite is drop saw. I'm using it to cut aluminium plates :) best bang per buck :)

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I was thinking the same thing when I saw the air blower handle....I even drove past the ozito warehouse today.

all the details are in the video description and if you use my channel as a reference they will give you discounted price.

i was considering it at the beginning, but when i put that spindle on it seams to be going just fine. this stepper can move over 200kg, and my rapids are limited to 3000mm/min. I don't need to go any faster really.

Ok... I admit I am setting up a similar spindle and I was not 100% sure either. Now I have it figured out. I think. You were right... well kind of. The return air port goes to the return side of a dual acting cylinder. I was also right. Sort of. You have to release the air between your valve and the cylinder and it will retract almost instantly just from spring pressure on the draw bar. I don't know if the air cylinder has a return spring or not. If it doesn't or it sticks a little you could get friction and heat from the ram of the cylinder rubbing on the end of the draw bar when the spindle is turning. You really need that return air. What you need for control, and maybe you already know that, is a 2 position 4 way 5 port change over valve. They make them either manually activated or electrically (solenoid) activated.

yeah, i got 3 way solenoid and its instant. i haven't even connected it to power just using switch on the valve.

Just wayer wit isopropyl alcohol to prevent any life form developing in there

im using a big aquarium pump in a closed bucket. works without a problem

spindle is great. thank to the switch i saved on the end mills on the long run. i hope to make new video soonish. (with in a month)

I find answer on your chanel, thanks :)

cutting aluminium : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/np-hac1otbXLf30.html hardened steel parallel: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qL6jZ8mktdm3d6s.html surface finish: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mLlzapmXvpiXaXk.html

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the quick reply. Really an awesome mill you have built

Yes. it does create constant air leakage. But it doesn't prevent spindle from turning on. I wouldn't run it without air seal on because bearings wouldn't last as long. After opening an old cheap spindle I realized that air seal is very good way of sealing bearings because I found there lots of grinded particles of all sorts mixed with rust. It looked like it was pulled from mud. Air seal is annoying but very good to have.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki thx for the answer. Is the air lubrified? Like with an FRL or just dry air?

Just dry air.

I guess mostly because people have 220v at home and I guess it got more popular. I think everything above 3kw it's 380v. Other thing is that for wood they might use much bigger tools where for metal you use rather small bits. I'm speculating. In big pro machines they use higher kw spindles and it doesn't matter if its for wood or metal.

The right way is "high pot" testing, something that very few people own.

actually i was thinking to buy this one JGL-110 4.2KW 24000rpm water cool cnc router BT30. and this one can run on 380v or 220v. so this could be your solution for 30 taper.

2.2kw huanyang vfd set on 400hz.