They also all have Vigilance and Lifelink because of Teysa

Lol

Wow

Exactly lol, the right move was to make Harry sac his commander, Ryan to lose life (as he's got plenty of card draw anyway), and Matt to discard... That misplay hurt my eyes lol

Adam Sutcliffe I was thinking the same thing. Much easier to use multiple d6 or a d20

Right? Who has a deck based on +1/+1 counters then uses such obnoxious dice to mark them?

Outsider Sidaroth so happy lol

@@MTGMuddstah Really fun to watch though! :)

Was soooooo weird when i heard him actually speaking and playing in the same time in a stream, and not with an recorded analysis tone like here ^^

Casual EDH tradition. There will ALWAYS be someone who complains about combos.

In that case, as muddy said it's a 2h+ game, i'm not mad with a combo finisher. Like you said, you have to finish at some point. In our (casual) playgroup, we have a 1H30 chrono, so there are not so many wrath, 'cause it basically said "if you have a sleepy deck, nobody will score".

Infinite combos and grindgy games like this are both things people hate. The ideal game has people actually playing magic, actually attacking with creatures, and players actually dying. I think people didn't like the combo in this one because they weren't there for 2 hours, only 20 minutes. And it was out of nowhere. Meren really should've been ganged up on, there are (as usual for this channel) so many bizarre threat assessments in this game.

That's why I hate watching Meren games. It's always so predictably cleaning the board while trying to combo out.

@@DarkEinherjar That's a little disingenuous to say it's a casual tradition. I don't believe it has anything to do with somebody being casual. Sometimes it can feel bad to be chipping away at life, gaining life, attacking, only to have somebody do something that doesn't really feel like it does anything to kill anybody, just basically saying, "the game's over." I don't know this combo well enough to say so, but I've had it twice in the last 4 games at a mostly casual table with Food Chain just basically having somebody say "I win." With First Sliver especially, it's not really possible to actually win by playing out the combination that leads to a win, people just basically concede. The key combos I've had in similar decks include Gravecrawler/Phyrexian Altar/zombie pinger, or even an Approach of the Second Sun, which definitely feels inconclusive, which is why I took it out of the deck ultimately. Luckily, my golgari graveyard deck with Izoni also has a number of tokens and ways to buff them for lethal often, so I don't need to combo often.

I really liked watching this game because it felt like it was anyone's game at any given moment. The games I play are usually like this only because I have tuned my decks to recover from any board wipe. Although it makes it very difficult to end games at times. For example I ended a 3hr game that happened last Saturday by going off with Wilderness Reclamation + Strionic Resonator. It allowed me so much mana I was able to dig for my Notion Thief + Echo of Eons and close out the game. I was playing my Tasigur deck and it isn't fully optimized so it is more fun to play casually than a lot of my other semi cEDH decks.

Probably fear of losing lands. Primus can also go infinite with Mikaeus and a sac outlet to remove all opponents' noncreature permanents.

@@DarkEinherjar That's not the reason

Robert McPherson Mikaeus gives the Triskelion undying. Triskelion comes in with 3 +1/1 counters which he can remove to do damage to any target. Trevor uses two of them to hurt the Triskelion and the last one to whoever. Triskelion then dies, but comes back with Undying, gaining an extra counter plus his three. You then do two damage to Triskelion and two to whoever, then cycle through this over and over until the table is dead.

@@MTGMuddstah I figured it was probably something like a derivative of Walking Ballista, but Triskelion was only on screen for a few frames so didn't get a chance to see what was happening.

shop.tnielsen.com/Descendants-Path-Playmat-PMDESCENDANTS.htm

Looks like a life counter.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ug-boy-and-his-blob/

@@MTGMuddstah Thanks so much Andrew👍

Ohhh I love Mizzix. I don't get to play her often, but she's by far my most explosive deck, unless I have an awesome draw with Brudiclad, oddly enough.

I think they're great. There definitely needs to be a definitive ending though. It can't be a "oh darn, we only have an hour and a half to play, so we have to end early and just agree that nobody winds." I've had that before.

www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/305471-mike-trike The way the combo works, Harry can't even save that Wear / Tear to stop it, unfortunately. I love seeing all of these decks, Niv especially, but how does that deck plan to actually win? Voltron damage?

I’ll be damn... that totally went over my head. Thanks

"I never noticed Mikaeus gives +1/+1 nor that Triskelion has a base power/toughness of 1 before today. Have I been lied to about this win con?"

"So I thought about it & Triskelion enters with 3 +1/+1 counters. Remove 1 to deal a point of damage to anything. Then remove 2 to deal 2 damage to itself killing it. Mikaeus gives the creature Undying so as long as it dies without any +1/+1 counters, it will come back, so Triskelion enters the battlefield with 3 +1/+1 counters & the loop continues where Triskelion will deal infinite damage to players unless the loop is interrupted."

This was 2 months ago, but the first card said, if something dies without counters, bring it back to the battlefield. Second card enters with 3 counters you can remove for damage to players health. It was an infinite combo of him doing 3 dmg by removing counters then bringing it back to the board and doing it all over again.

How so? He swung with Elenda, and then sacced her to the alter to make Vampires x2. She had 12 counters, so she was a 13/13, so her trigger made 26 Vampires. Then he sacced most of them for mana.

@@andrewlaverghetta715 Solemn's death should have put 2 more counters on Elenda

@@AvatarKira Cool thanks! I don't know how many times I watched that and still didn't notice it.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ug-boy-and-his-blob/

I'll ask Ryan tonight.

Affinity for Commander! They're mentioned on the lower right side :D

That particular one is from Martin and Alex from Affinity from Commander. Each intro has a different voice.

Cast it, remove all +1/+1 counters, since it has no counters Mikaeus brings it back with undying, that also gives it a +1/+1 counter, you remove it to deal 1 damage, mikaus bring it back again, repeat until everybody is dead

@@BrutalDavy "But doesn't Mikaeus give the Triskelion +1/+1. so you'd need something to deal 2 damage to trigger Undying?"

@@coreysierchio4650 He had Altar on the board for that.

"Nevermind. I get it now."

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ug-boy-and-his-blob/

@@MTGMuddstah thank you so much

Don't mind combo wins tbh especially in this case as apparently it was a 2 hour game and ppl's boards just repeatedly got wiped and had no clear win cons

And I don't mind a combo that requires twelve mana worth of creatures from hand, is easily telegraphed from the graveyard and can be stopped by instant speed creature removal/graveyard hate. No matter how many people complain against Mike + Trike, I'll never see it as "OP", "toxic" or "broken" by any means.

Nope, it’s none of those things. It’s just obvious and uninteresting. But, games gotta end, so whatever. This game was still excellent and fun to watch to the finish.

@@DarkEinherjar I'm more surprised that the Ghost Quarter went at the Urborg rather than the Cabal Coffers on that situation.

@@armoric I think Trevor only had three or four swamps without Urborg, so Cabal Coffers wasn't that big of a deal. Besides, Trevor's deck, being green, probably has more ways to get lands back from the graveyard than Matt's.

You're right. I just said that for shorthand, but we play like you explained it.

I wonder if it ever has negative psychological blowback when people see SIX dice on something instead of a single D6. It looks so much worse than just a single die.

Net decking at it's finest. The sad part is, this is a casual game. You really shouldn't net deck a casual deck. cEDH netdecking is forgiveable (slightly), because people have worked together and tuned each cEDH deck to be as optimal as possible. Casual decks should be as much of your own idea as possible, though. My opinion anyway, which I know not all will agree with

Ditto. It isn't a big deal to me, but it felt off

I'd rather die on turn 5 than have to wait til turn 5 before anything happens, tbh lol. But to each their own.

Becuase it is easy to get ride of her. But not so many people build their decks to be prepared for everything.

Chuubii adding to the comment from Fernando, Meren is also a very fun deck to play, and being Golgari makes her really good, but not to the point of being just unfair, since a Blue player can get control of her very easily. She is great, but not unfair.

Meren ALWAYS wins. Being unable to stop experience counters and sacrifice being uninterruptible makes her OP as hell

@@Ubermunki3 Vampire Hexmage would like a word about them counters.

@@Ubermunki3 solemnity, rest in peace, hushbringer, grafdigger cage, relic of progenitus, reality shift, leyline black, scavenger ooze, magma spray, anger of the gods, burn from within. You have response in every color and in artifacts. As i said, build your deck against everything.

It's a life counter

I wasn't trying to! I've honestly never seen her before this game.

MTG Muddstah same

Dealing with meren requires the resources you just listed. While those options are available, it means spending mana constantly keeping another player in check. In a 4 player game, this immediately starts to put you behind, while a single resolution of meren undoes most of your work to control it. Not all colors have equal ability to deal with her, and green black has access to removal for all permanent types (example in game: the graveyard exile land was immediately removed by the meren player). She requires far too many resources for the average player to deal with while still trying to win. That's why people call her toxic. Edit: additionally, every deck slot devoted to dealing with graveyard hate is a deck slot not devoted to getting closer to winning the game for yourself.

I think she gets the hate because she gets creatures back for "free." Simple counterspells, graveyard hate, and single target removal are more than enough to hold her down. She's only bad when she gets experience counters which means she has to stay on the field and then something has to die with it on his side of the board. I truly believe that the people who think she is "toxic" are just bad deck-builders.

It's because experience counters don't go away. Removing her only sets the player back a single turn as opposed to removing the counters

@@smartasdan So, players call her "toxic" because they don't feel like dedicating deck slots to deal with her? It's not like those answers deal with Meren and only Meren, and are dead cards against everything else. Take graveyard hate, for example: most EDH decks have graveyard recursion in some way, and a lot of graveyard hate cards either replace themselves (Relic of Progenitus) or have other functions when you don't need the hate, such as lands (Bojuka Bog, Scavenger Grounds). "every deck slot devoted to dealing with graveyard hate is a deck slot not devoted to getting closer to winning the game for yourself" By that "logic", should I not run board wipes, single-target creature removal, artifact/enchantment hate or, god forbid, counterspells? Should I build decks with only my wincons, tutors for said wincons and ramp/card draw, and kindly ask my opponents to not disrupt my gameplan in any way until I win? I was not aware Magic: the Gathering had its own version of Pokémon's Edgar Clause.

@@DarkEinherjar responding to your quote about my "logic": the issue is that none of those things stop meren from working. Board wipe? She gets counters. Counterspell any creature but her? She gets it back. Additionally, counterspells and board wipes are useful against multiple opponents and archetypes. Meanwhile, graveyard removal is an incredibly specific and limited form of meta hate that does not have wider meta applications (my single target removal kills any commander, yet removing the white players graveyard has limited usefulness). As to your conclusion from my "logic": yeah, pretty much. That's what competitive decks do, except they run counters and silence instead of asking permission. The deck you described as tutors ramp and draw is basically flash hulk and that deck upsets a large portion of the cedh community due to how good it is.

Casimir Nelson the game was well over 2hrs by the time the combo happened. Trevor did me a mercy ending it then lol

I began to put cards that make all players or all opponents discard to help fight that hate. If people are going to hate me regardless, I might as well be mean to them. >:)

As they should have. No offense to you, Meren is just toxic

@@maxmaier7023 I think she's incredibly overrated and fairly easy to deal with.