you're doing shadow the hedgehog next because let the horrible games continue no even sonic adventure 1

if you want a good sonic game play sonic generations

Which one is worse: 06 or Forces Anyone is welcome to respond

My life is better because you play Sonic games. Thank you so much Choctopus.

Choc play Sonic Unleashed Xbox and PS3 version

HUH, SINCE WHEN?!?! HOW THE HELL DID I NOT HERE THIS.

One piece collab when

That's really cool but at the same it's sad cause they should have focused on the fucking game instead of god damn hooters even though it's funny I thought forces was good

@@TheSpeedfoever On the contrary, I feel like they should have focused more on Hooters. That would have gotten me more interested in the game.

@@svenandersson4554 But Rouge is in the game.

Exactly! And what was Shadow doing for those months that Sonic was gone? It’s a shame, cause it was the perfect set-up for Shadow to be the one to break Sonic out of prison and help start the revolution which could’ve been cool

Probably because Sega keeps all the spotlight focused on just Sonic unfortunately. I mean when was the last time Tails or Knuckles were playable in a mainline game?

@@Tom-vg6td *Cough* 06 *Cough*

@@thetakerofknees9737 Exactly. 2006. It's been almost 20 years since they were playable.

Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, and Silver can protect the world but Sega writes these characters like they don’t know how to fight.

Shadow is gone for no reason for months and then comes back to fight the boss fight we were supposed to.

@@Olivia-dg4fb AND takes it out in a single hit XD

@@Skillfulstone Yes! Like fucking Zavok or whatever is name is was a boss and so was Metal and it took multiple hits to kill them... but chaos and Shadow go down one hit?!?!

for a second i thought you were talking about the chao garden

We got baited man. They wanted to capture our interest

It's like the game forgot that all of sonics friends were competent or something.

This game should have been you playing as all the other sonic characters going on a journey to save sonic.

It’s like the game forgot that the other characters are actually really strong and a portion of them are stronger than sonic

@@Executioner1231 They're all strong, but only Shadow's stronger than Sonic.

This game is gay just play it and you’ll see what I’m talking about

Never forget that Knuckles led hundreds and thousands of men and women to their deaths in a plan he took 5 seconds to think of.

Sounds like something ken penders would make knuckles say lol

@@WildWeavile And that's why the writers got the boot. They should've been fired after the higher-ups got a look at Lost World's script.

That fact makes me feel a little "warse"

A surprisingly smart take from Knuckles of all people

Cried a lot in that part seeing what Sonic had become after what they did to him

THIS, like why even imply something like this if it’s not gonna actually take part in the story? 💀 I wish they weren’t so scared to give Sonic more emotions or let him get hurt. I’d be a lot easier to relate to him + the story would seem more real/authentic. Idk, this game just pisses me off lmao

The only reasonable explanation i can find for him not to be more jaded is that he's just masking the intense ptsd with his jokes

​@@deboraluz27or that he is a big optimist and wouldn't go down so easily

​@@Ilikesceptile11Nah bro, sustaining 6 months of torture is definitely going to get to someone. At this point, It's just unbelievable that it's not getting to him. Glad that this part was never in the Japanese version in the first place

Oh that's easy, there's no water in space

It's because they have trees inside of them instead of organs and a skeleton

@@FoxDen_System please explain how that works

@@pneumonoultramicrosc0p1csilic0 Sonic ate seeds

@@pneumonoultramicrosc0p1csilic0I mean unlike space water isn’t entering your lungs

Old movie sonic is the new creepypasta

4:58 Naaah this scene is even scarier

@@theprincemonster7575 Nah I Don't Get How Thats Scary

And he thought the last Double Boost was important because it had lyrics... ...they all do, if you don't fail them!

@@AMDeZani its sad because that song is a vibe

How do you even fail a freaking button mash

@@Kimarnic I think he thought it was a quick time event that's the only explanation I could think of

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/prCjZMx7tL6qfmw.html

More like quarter-assed.

@@henryapplebottom7231 1/5th assed execution

More like, shut up.

@@AlexRodriguez0407 1/100 assed

1/4096th assed

Are you doing well right now?

oh yeah, that was years ago lol@@guntherhuemer1767

Literally the music is the only thing good about this game.

@@lillyhilana666 aside from the classic sonic music, those are a fucking nightmare fuel to listen to

@@EBlade3529 Oh, I just meant the vocal tracks and some boss fight tracks. The rest is mid at best.

@@EBlade3529 death egg bops tho

For me, that plain oatmeal can be enjoyable at certain times, but it lacks an impact of taste that it would have if it were given more time to prepare, no fruit or spices or heck even any sweeteners to, well, sweeten the deal of eating this overall bland package that isn’t served in a broken dish, yes, but lacks a lot more to claim as it’s own to make it stand out from other oatmeals i’ve had in the past. TLDR; i’ve stretched this metaphor as much as i can, Forces while not broken lacks a lot to make it stand out and plays with concepts that end up not adding much to the already stale package.

Are you telling me that all this time I had a false memory of an giant Chaos 0 Boss Fight in this game?

@@mjmelo9203 Yes

@@mjmelo9203 must've confused him with Metal Sonic or smthing

@@T3rr4T3rr0r It's probably the case 🥲

I heard someone talking about if there WAS a Chaos boss fight, it would be entirely 2d side scroll because it's Classic Sonic that fights him.

I'm pretty sure 3D Tails and Knuckles can't use the Emeralds. But your point still stands, why the fuck do they never even _mention_ Chaos Emeralds in this game? Even a single one can be used to distort space-time!

There was DLC for Forces??

No I’m pretty sure they made a completely new engine for this game, which took too much development time which is why this game came out so half baked

@@tehCostHD didn't they also only have a bit over a year as well?

@@Blue-fg8vt it wouldn’t surprise me. Sonic frontiers has had 5 + years so I actually have hope this game could be good

@@tehCostHD You're thinking of Hedgehog Engine 2. That's a graphic engine, not a physic engine.

@@MegaGlassguy oh, so what physics engine was it?

This game in general highlights how awful the writing is. And how unimportant all the characters are, like Sonic go defeated… and? You do realize we have the likes of Shadow and Silver who are just as strong if not stronger than him right? And that’s without counting all the other characters that can stand on their own like Tails, who went from a brave kid able to stand on his own and even fight Eggman head on to a coward that cries when Sonic isn’t around…. Also how Chaos was just wasted not even having a boss. Or how much of a joke Infinite was as a villain.

Sonic being tortured was a mistranslation, on the contrary. That alone shows how rushed Forces was.

you should see Sonic forces: Rewritten. It’s a fan made remake that you can’t play but it feels like the maker of the video actually put effort into it while the original feels like a rushed piece of crap

@@buisnessman1237 yeah its pretty good

that would have given Sonic unnecessary depth all while threatening his core personality. we don't need another "Metroid: Other M". look at Mario. Sonic games need to be simpler, not more complicated. Sonic has the potential to be really simple: Sonic Mania, the two movies and the recent animated efforts (Mania Adventure and some other Tyson Hesse's works for Sega) showed it. and for the love of God, have him talk less. mute Classic Sonic in Mania Adventures is a great character, the "show, don't tell" rule should always apply there, or at least as often as possible. unnecessary speech makes things more boring, slower, and more chaotic, and often fails to convey emotions or intentions that can only be transmitted through well crafted gestures, expressions, behavior or postures. (so many expressionless faces in this game, so much exposition, even during the actual gameplay, it's disgusting and irritating) moreover, Sonic never gives up: he's supposed to be an unstoppable force of nature clashing with an immovable object (Eggman). wind doesn't need motivations. I don't want to see a depressed Sonic, that'll be the end.

Not to be a contrarian, but if not every act is a hit (as in, 2 out of 3 sucks on average), I wouldn't really say the level design was that great overall. Sure, there were some creative environments and a few good levels, but the entire game was clearly struggling to pad itself past the 2-hour mark. And as such one of the big reasons I'd say the reception has grown colder is not just the writing, but also how the devs somehow never found a way to improve on their design philosophy and as such the glaring design flaws only became more prominent over time, both in Colors and the following games (Generations is arguably the one exception by virtue of its development starting at the time of Unleashed, but it isn't entirely without fault, ironically most agree that the Colors stage is the lesser level despite following the overall design of that game).

It’s funny that 10 years ago pretty much everyone loved Colors, many fans called it one of the best if not the best Sonic game. People used to praise the wisps, the comedic story and Sonic being the only playable character. Now these are all things the fanbase hates.

@Casswury Unfortunately, no. You do need to get through all 6 acts to progress in the original as well, that was not an issue created by Ultimate. The only extras are the Game Land levels. And I must disagree, Colors has some of the most inspired level *themes* in the series but its design philosophy is not that great. Blocky platforming, automated spectacle to the max (Starlight Carnival Act 1 being the most guilty of this, half the stage plays by itself), yellow spring autoscrollers and of course the infamous "stand on switches and wait" levels. In every world, you'll get 2 good acts and the rest is padding. A shame, as the result is that the game does not take enough advantage of its unique zones as much as it could.

@@bulb9970 even back then people were saying that the dialogue was bad in Colors, the vitriol has only increased because every other game afterwards seems to highlight it more because their dialogue is even worse

It's worth mentioning that Colors came after nearly a decade of mediocre to terrible Sonic games, the fact that it was halfway decent meant it got lauded with praise.

That’s effed up, but better than what they actually made his backstory

my revised backstory was that he has multiple run-ins with shadow, and his constant losses ruined his reputation as a mercenary. basically, the encounter in the actual game would be kept roughly the same, but with added context to show that this was the last straw in a long line of failures

oh so we are telling our own rewrites for infinite ok then for my rewrite infinite or zero and the custom avatar are brothers manly because i kind of saw them as brothers so it can work for the story anyways in the rewrite zero and rookie are brothers and they lived in a small village there whole childhood wit there parents until one day eggman attacks the village eventually sonic shows up and fights eggman after the fight eggman leaves but because of what eggman did zero and rookie lost there parents from the attack and are dead years later zero forms his own vigilante group called jackal squad zero tells his brother that he will be gone for a while but he will return later on jackal squad go out and fight eggman but they get outnumbered and eggman makes a deal to zero join him or die with your team zero doesn't want his friends to die so he says he will work for the doctor then weeks later they are in the jungle protecting a underground lab then suddenly eggman tells jackal squad that a black hedgehog and robot have entered the base zero tells his squad to go after the hedgehog he can handle the robot after a while zero destroys the robot but his team haven't called back yet until the hedgehog appears reveling to be shadow with no time wasting zero and shadow fight shadow wins the fight telling the jackal that his team are gone and that his nothing to him the jackal goes into a coma shadow leaves the base eggman shows up brings zero into the lab and begins to experiment on him with the ruby calling him infinite

Jeez, an edgelord making another edgelord... Wait, am I right?

@@NX_K what you mean by that

the only thing Tails did was cower like a pussy against Chaos in BASE FORM. Let it be reminded Tails was able to take down an UPGRADED version of chaos ON HIS FREAKIN' OWN

Chaos 0 manhanled Knuckles and SILVER in the forces comics and trashed Knuckles in Sa1 of Super Sonic's story

@@EBlade3529 they just evolve backwards, character development wise

@@docplays6508 Much as it hurts me to say it, my expectations are REAL LOW for Frontiers just due to sheer fear they're gonna screw it up like they did with Forces

He was too busy with his Wii U gamepad

and not even in gameplay. They brought back Chaos just to have him die via cutscene.

@@Triforce_of_Doom " Hey, adventure fans, remember Chaos? remember how menacing and unstoppable he was? look at him now- oh. he's dead... *what a shame huh?* " " anyways here's the Sonic From Another Dimension!! "

@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL Between Sega listening to Adventure haters (as well Sonic haters in general) for years, Sega cancelling Adventure remakes on two separate occasions and ofc the shameless as well as shallow bait in Forces (Chaos). It's actually quite disgusting how Sonic fans whose favourite games are the Adventure titles have been treated tbh. Like S3&K is my personal favourite Sonic game but this constant "classic era" pandering at the expense of screwing over the "Adventure era" ("Classic" Sonic literally one-shot Chaos like it was nothing) only enables the divisions in the fandom and causes more problems in the future with mixed messages between Sega and the Sonic fandom.

Yeh.

As a massive adventure fan, that felt like such a big slap in the face. So sad. Adventure really deserves more respect, and so do the fans.

i cant found the funny copypasta :(

That's the only redeeming quality about Forces, the character creator! And... That's it. Ill boot up my PS2 to play Jak & Daxter 1 for the rest of it. Fuck that non-sense!

@@haaxxx9 fuck yeah jak and daxter, fuck yeah sonic the hedgehog. you are a way past cool.

i've recently seen one or two that look like Amy Rose!

It really doesn't. Choc spent almost the same amount of time with Sonic Generations as the N. Sane Trilogy.

Well he did cut out a lot of it.

@@quangamershyguyyz7166 It's still very short, most levels don't even need you to play, you could quite literally do nothing but boost..

@@fuckthisstupidasshandleshit There's still roughly 20 minutes of difference between this and the Generations video; and even then, Gens is considered a quick game, just not as ridiculously fast as Forces here (seriously, there's levels that don't even last a minute) The 06 video is probably a closer comparison, but that game is a glitchy mess.

@@extremmefan7305 Choc's Sonic Generations and Crash 4 videos are the same length, yet Crash 4 is much longer.

Even he seems to think so lol

How? Tails was a coward long before Forces.

I would like a team consisting of modern sonic, classic sonic, the created character and tails, but tails hasn’t been with sonic for a bit now, his modern version is more of a messenger judging from the cutscenes in sonic forces, also, I think that sonic mania gives context to what happened to classic sonic before he came to the sonic forces world

In six months: "Boy Frontiers was sure bad, hopefully the next one is better!"

@@ArchibaldClumpy shocking plot twist: it isn't Oh boy sure hope the next one is better!

@@AlexRodriguez0407 At least 06 has fun glitches and good writing, Forces has... nothing

@@eway44 talking about frontiers, if I were to predict it based on the gameplay so far it's more of a forces than an '06 Honestly I'm hoping more for an '06 because that would be something I could laugh at

The worst part about Infinite is not only is he wasted, he’s then revealed to be a whiny emo baby who’s just salty because Shadow won’t notice him.

"If they had completely redone the game, it would have been an awesome game" It's funny because it's true

Literally everything you said would have made this game 100% more bearable

So make an entirely different game? Yep makes sense. No really it does

Also like make it so in the levels you are not boosting in a straight line. Thanks

If they simply just made it based on the Sonic Comic/Sonic SatAM freedom fighter storyline it would be significantly better.

It's a Sonic game. Sonic games are supposed to be fast. I'm not saying this game is good, but you're not making a very good case against it here.

@@kindwolf7700 true, true. But I also like gameplay. I don’t like hold (insert boost button here) to win.

1 worked on Lost World, and the other 2 never worked on a Sonic title before, that explains everything.

@@kindwolf7700 doesn’t mean levels can’t be longer, look at unleashed. You go hella fast and levels are always around 4 Minutes

@@kindwolf7700 sonic generations stages go fast, but they're not 1 minute long.

"..some of the main reasons this game ended up mediocre was due to Sega rushing development.." Oh Sega, did we not learn from '06? Goodness, lol.

The funny part is remembering how certain people were that this game would be amazing because the game was delayed and missed the 25th anniversary in 2016 "They're taking their time to make sure the game is good, they learned they can't rush these games anymore!" That sure worked out well

And Infinite’s a mediocre villain but his backstory was bad.

one of the level designers worked on sonic lost world though

@@BruceLigno "We got it guys, we learned from our failure with 06. We won't ever add any other playable characters than Sonic again and we won't ever attempt at making a complex story either. I'm sorry, what? Don't rush the game? Nonsense, that had nothing to do with our failure."

The whole series is false advertising at this point

@@tjreardon8495 -From the team that brought you Sonic Generations. -Most of which have jumped ship to Nintendo. Yup false advertising indeed.

Shadow's not even a villain. He was only a villain for like one game. So that's another neat thing about him.

Characters who have their own goals but still end up doing the good thing are more interesting that "I am always good and nice because I'm the protagonist"

I feel the same with all of this

@@joosoo i mean sonics a little more than that but I understand where you’re coming from i guess

He doesn’t even have his own goals though - sometimes people say this about him, and I find that weird. He’s just a hero doing the right thing for the right reasons.

Cum

The only things I like are A concepts on paper and B gamer hat.

@@henryapplebottom7231 gamer hat is a very important addition. Gotta make sonic team know that we’re gamers

Just gonna throw it out here: Sonic 06 was fucking amazing in making the other characters playable. Every single one got a completely unique moving and attacking set. Shadow felt both like Sonic and his own at the same time, like he was created to be, silvers moveset was fucking nuts for that era of gaming and even Amy, Rouge, Blaze and Knuckles had their own levels of playtime

At least in adventure 2 he had his own special abilities

@@davemarin7340 Silver was definitely the best part of 06. Great platforming.

Ok

for yet we still have not got persona 5 on switch

Getting hit by a spiky ball at mach 1

Yes. You are.

to be fair that was intnetional. Here the bosses are SUPPOSED to be bosses.

And some even say Unleashed is the best boost game, after years and years of calling it the worst sonic game ever just because of the werehog

@@viniciuslacerda6046 exactly!!!! 💀😭💀 the Internet be letting everyone choose for them instead of staying true to themselves

@@Picmanreborn yes, and surprise. After people started pointing out that colors story and bosses suck, now people don't like the game anymore

​@@viniciuslacerda6046unleashed was awesome

@@ezatron9766 i know

Ok

Yea

its just mediocre its not bad

@@nicolalama2562 No no, it really is bad. You want an exemple of a mediocre Sonic game? Secret Rings. But this.. ''Forces'' .. is legit a very, VERY bad Sonic game.

@@Sawtje2 forces is way better than secret rings

They did, but only in the english localization. Same thing with the "Tails has lost it" bit. The english writers wanted to spice things up not realizing that if we don't see those things then it's just lies.

yep but that's only in the English version apparently, same goes for the "Tails has just lost it" line. Guess they were tryna spice things up and failed miserably at putting a serious tone in a Sonic game

.

@@playerback7722 .

.

@@playerback7722 👍

@@playerback7722 I don’t think the story can’t be taken seriously. It’s more that SEGA doesn’t want to do it because they want a goofy Eggman.

i agree. i just finished sonic forces and honestly it was nowhere near as bad as i thought it was going to be. even though in the grand scheme of things it’s nowhere near a great sonic game i was still able to find enjoyment in it.

After seeing Frontiers they failed the challenge again

@@Soniman001 they need to hire whoever created Mania. I guess, maybe they'll do good at frontiers?

Frontiers was being played by IGN

@@qwertyzillaofficial2969 And?

@@qwertyzillaofficial2969 no it actually wasn't, the footage was provided by the Sonic Team themselves wich makes me really sad that they think being that slow in a sonic game is ok

Fun to play? It literally played itself and the physics were so bad

@@jasonblack2477 yeah. I said fun to play. I had fun playing it. That's not even controversial.

@@MarkSchmidtTheRecoverySystem Any enjoyment you can get from Forces has been done way better in previous games.

@@SonicTheCutehog Oh, I agree. 100%. I still had fun playing it though. 😅

@@SonicTheCutehog Jesus christ, this guy just said he had fun with it. Why can things like that not be said anymore nowadays with people swarming in to attack them for it? Let people enjoy things. If you hate it, sure whatever but don't let that be the "reason" everyone else has to hate it too.

Yep

No. Choc's Donkey Kong Country videos are shorter than this.

Eh, well the shadow story is like, 3 levels long

To be fair, his Sonic 06 vid is also 30 minutes, and that game isn't exactly anywhere near as short as this one.

sONLc hlEp me

Yup but first Sega need to learn to properly utilise the established cast and consistently treat them with respect as well as nuance in the games (Something they've failed at for well over a decade now).

If you look closely and peel off the name, you realize infinite is just a dollar store version of mephiles

@@lynxfresh5214 amen. Sonic Heroes is the last time I saw the cast used correctly.

@@AlexRodriguez0407 and Mephiles was them taking Shadow and saying “nah we can go edgier than this”

I've heard they purposely designed the OC's to look awkward so they wouldn't outshine the main cast. I can't recall the source as it was in a video I watched years ago but I think it was quoted from a developer interview.

@@ArtzyZero Yet they failed miserably since most of the main cast are useless exposition machines while the OC does all the work and still outshines them plus some folks got really creative with OC designs which later inspired the creation of an official Sonic character, Whisper the Wolf from the IDW comics.

@@lynxfresh5214 Well the official cast being walking cardboard cutouts wasn't exclusive to Forces, sadly. But design wise in game there is a very clear difference in how the OC characters are modeled compared to the official cast and it was intentional (assuming the interview I mentioned actually happened). That said, they obviously still wanted the OC to be popular otherwise they wouldn't have put so much effort into the clothing options. ^-^

@@ArtzyZero Nah... I understand the walking cardboard cutout point is nothing new, even Generations (The last GREAT 3D Sonic game) suffers from this. As a Blaze fan it made me laugh that a character, who a major part of her popularity comes from the fact she's a princess that actually does her job and gets directly involved in the action (instead of needing to be rescued and/or only cheers from the sidelines like many other fictional princesses) that in Generations she needed to be rescued and then cheers from sidelines during the final battle (alongside most of the cast lol!). At this point Sega should either leave the cast outta the games to just focus on Sonic OR actually make some of them playable as well as be important to the entire game. Tl;dr: The walking cardboard cutout compromise needs to go from Frontier onwards (All it does is continually enable the "sONiC aNd hIs UsElEsS fRiEnDs" meme).

@@lynxfresh5214 Oh the way the ended Generations bothered me so much, it really brought down a good game. There's no way any of Sonic's friends would just stand and watch as both Sonic's are being hurt. You could argue the others can't go super but Shadow and Silver are there and they'd absolutely join the fight. Thing is, there was such an easy fix. Just don't have Sonic's friends there. Or if you really wanted keep the 'my friends are my power' moment (because as cheesy as it is, it's always fit the series) have Sonic's friends notice that White Space is becoming unstable and they're forced together. As a group they realise Sonic must be fighting the creature they've seen. Naturally they want to find and help him but the Time Eater is blocking the way with the same barrier's we see in game, so with no other options they're forced to watch. That way them calling out for Sonic to keep fighting without actually doing anything makes sense because they can't physically get to him. (This is just off the top of my head, I'd probably give it more thought if I had too. XD) I don't think we need another Sonic Heroes (I wouldn't say no to another one of course) but I think a game that focuses on a small group of Sonic's friends would be the best way to go. Then save the side games/party games for including everyone at once, since you don't need a detailed story in that situation and can just focus on fun character interactions. This is (again) off the top of my head but maybe have Sonic and Tails take another trip to Blaze's dimension for some Eggman Nega shenanigans but this time Knuckles tags along after a mix-up or something. They can't get back home until they've beaten Nega and so the adventure begins. You've got two speedy characters with Sonic and Blaze and two more flight/exploration based characters with Tails and Knuckles. So you can have open styled levels like in SA1 where you speed through them in a linear fashion with the speed characters as they pursue Nega's robots, familiarising yourself with how a level looks before exploring it thoroughly for, say the Sol Emeralds, with Tails/Knuckles. You could have each character play a little differently or unlock unique locations in each stage so you've got reasons to switch between the four of them. (TLDR; Totally agree Generations ending sucked and Sonic's friends deserved better. I want them to try multiple characters again but keep it limited to just a couple per game and save including every character in a game for spin offs/party games, allowing for fun interactions without a complicated story. (The rest of my comment is just 'what if' story rambling.)

Gee, haven't heard that one before.

He's a big baby in Forces.

@@Choctopus True, can't argue with that

I see where you're coming from I personally like the game. I especially have the most fun when I speed run through it as I feel that's what the game was made for. Try speed running the game you might have more fun

speedrunning the game is still boring because the levels are not challenging at all

@@wistfulanthophila9317 to each their own

06 actually has interesting things in it, like the bosses are actually not bad outside of like initial confusion on how to fight many of them and the occassional bullshit, and we have lements of the story that's interesting. But Forces basically has NOTHING. It's supposedly about Eggman beating Sonic for the first time ever and it feels like nothing happens in the entire thing.

I mean, the game was sorta easy. Haven’t touched it in a while, but all I remember is that the game was relatively easy to get through as Modern Sonic (boost to win), tricky as Classic Sonic (movement), and difficult as the Avatar (level design).

@@T_Dude honestly my biggest complain is that everything is so easy

@@PLEASEHOLD2 maybe the problem comes from inconsistent difficulty. the easy parts are so brainless that the hard parts catch you off guard. never played the game, but i have had similar experiences

@@Underworlder5 This pretty much sums it up.

Sonic Superstars is harder