"sneakarov" time to call pb just that

Imagine being designed to be used in the most secret covert operations the USSR could ever dare to conduct, but you end up as the tool to deliver death penalties in Belarus. That’s the story of the PB.

From what I heard, the PB had a few issues

Советский ПБ самостоятельная конструкция...там от ,макарова, только магазин,спусковой механизм...и все!!!Этот пистолет никогда не продавался на экспорт...и даже дружественным странам!

​@@british35Неправильно ,слышали,...никаких проблем небыло...было выпущено более 30.000 штук...плохую вещь в таких количествах не сделали бы😉...Используется до сих пор...из - за распространеного и недорогого боеприпаса.А разбирается даже проще ,макарова,...если посмотрите видео..😊

It is literally the soviet’s doctrine, as long as the logistic is as simple as possible

It's an old soviet tradition to sell a good pieces for export and left a crap one inside "for people"😅

@@stanislavkrasovskyi7903Weren’t their export stuffs pretty much downgraded versions just like how everyone do things? I doubt stuffs they gave to Syria or Iraq were as good as ones they operated themselves.

​@@stanislavkrasovskyi7903opposite my friend. Exports are always stripped down versions of the domestic, but they show off the domestic to sell export versions

​@@yosawin3018Pretty much, if i recall the export MiG-23s are downgraded

@@rimanahbvee the late 80s and entirety of the 90s were a silly time filled with silly people.

​@@lordsheogorath3377 Nothing has changed since then.

@@lordsheogorath3377 It's not silly if it works. The heel magazine catch is the Makarov's biggest flaw by far, and anything that makes it less of a pain in the ass is a Good Thing(tm)

@@XH1927 no it's still silly because they are trying to run a tactical Makarov in the 90s lol. 100% it was pioneered by Spetsnaz fanboys, one of the pillars of the post-Soviet American range culture.

@@lordsheogorath3377 I'm honestly mad at russia for demolishing the mystique about their military. Who will all those goobers emulate now?

It looks a lot like the HK M7M13, which came 1st?

​@@briansmithwinswhat is hjk m7m13? And what's relation of HJK to IžMeh?

@@worldoftancraft tried to type HK, I think it predates the 12 round Makarov

Hipoint actually did the same thing with the Yeet Cannon

A bunch of companies did the same thing with their double-stack 1911, although the differences aren't as dramatic as the PMM magazine. It's more apparent on subcompact 9mm pocket pistols that were made double stack, like the LCP Max.

Gives me cheap brass to use, works for me man

300 Blackout. Everybody does it

​@@7thboss931300 blackout is at least visually distinctive. You can usually tell at a glance.

​@@Laz7481you could spot 300 blk from a distance simply because it roughly 7.62 shape but brass.

New Makarov, now with 50% more Makarov!

Just goes to show how arbitrary and stupid those laws sre

Yup. When I bought my Bulgarian Makarov, it came with the "sporting" grip attached and the military grip in the box. Naturally I swapped out the grips ASAP.

I don’t regret not picking the one up for $145. They’re all cast and Bulgarian maks are worth buying for $500.

Yeah they are cool as a collectible, but the old real military maks are definitely better guns.

As a pmm owner, I definitely lust after the astetics of the old milsurp mask.

They are not cast.

@@Chiefshadow4I believe the frame on these particular ones are, I own one that has distinct lines from the molding process that were not buffed out or cleaned up before coating the frame. 🤷‍♂️ also, no apparent milling marks to be found on the frame, unlike the rest of the components

If it, like the one displayed, is Russian-made, then it is collectable simply for rarity. If it was made in the Soviet Union, then it is a Cold War collectible.

I have yet to see any patterns of 9x18mak that don't increase in value due to being a "collectible". I have the IJ70 and a FEG Hungarian mak. Both have doubled in value since I got them. Just the mags of the FEG are selling for nearly $50 now.

Does it perhaps say "Baikal" on the side? If so, that makes sense.

@@life_of_riley88 I'll have to check.

I have a IJ70 - 18A with a single stack mag. Made in Russia. Bought it in the 90's.

Name checks out.

You should probably clean her lol

Got one myself , you can tell they are made from a lot of the real parts , they are a lot sturdier than other modern air pistols the trigger is quite heavy in double action , its probably exactly the same feel as the 9mm one

Bought a real 2012 edition one. The one with the real bakelite grips and original internals, including the recoil spring. Real mags go in, no problem.@@johngreen-sk4yk

Dark humor is like food under Stalin. Not everyone gets it.

@@ForgottenWeapons my sides. Never change, Ian (or whoever manages his comments) **EDIT; Forgotten Weapons team, just wanted to say your reply made my day. Greetings from Minnesota. Keeping doing God's work, Gun Jesus.

I had to pay $100 each for a pair of the mags.

These are not PMM's, but instead are commercial sporterized PM's with a PMM-type doublestack frame. And there's no way you acquired one in the 1980s as neither went into production until the early/mid-90's. No true PMM's were ever imported into the US

post collapse russia became basically a third world country ran by gangs and criminals, so it's not surprising

I have great respect for Ian's expertise, but I believe this is just an urban legend. I have had an IJ 70 and Bulgarian military, which people tell me was virtually identical to the Russkie military. I can't find any quality difference between them.

People salivate over Russian guns for some reason, but the machining & build quality is not all that great. I've sold hundreds of new Russian guns in the shop over the past 30 yrs. Never was all that impressed. Saiga's & Veprs with canted sights as if they were made in Romania. 😊

​@@donwyoming1936 for some reason most of commercial made guns in Russia are "meh tier". They are really cheap in Russia and that's what you get for your money

@@donwyoming1936 Yeah, that's exactly my point. The soviets couldn't build a decent toothbrush or an adequate razer, so to say the quality of commercial produced stuff going down is something I never thought I'd say.

The regular PM grips should be too narrow to fit here, how did you change them?

@@JD-rt5sd someone makes them.

@@JD-rt5sd There is a wider grips in style of original Makarov grips, for more wide frame. Notably air gun version MP-654K have it, because it have wide frame.

@@user-di7ds5nk3o yeah, I actually replaced my standard brown plastic grips with the ones you speak about on one of my 654k. But they have nothing in common with real PM grips, except for the looks. They are made of three pieces glued together, instead of one solid chunk of Bakelite, and they don’t have steel reinforcements inside, like real PM grips do. They do the job for a BB gun, but I don’t know if they are sturdy enough for a firearm.

Technically they were, the last letter letter "m" is not capitalized in the game.

It stands for "modernized" or improved.

@@Karv3r this plus the model in game is standard PM, stat-wise too (8-round mag)

In any case, you should know that no Soviet-era gear is ever under legal protections IP or trademark-wise. A country that no longer exists can't sue, and they never believed in IP or trademarks anyways. Kalashnikov Concern (the private successor to Izhmash and the current producer of Kalashnikov-family firearms, which has absolutely nothing to do with Mikhail himself) tried to start cracking down on IPs and trademarks worldwide, but it never gained traction and they gave up. You can now freely use post-1991 names with no consequence - AK-105, AK-12, whatever.

Still don’t understand why they changed the name in the first place, it’s not like “PM” is a bloody trademark.

Some corrupt officials in Russia actually have golden Glocks.

Maybe, maybe not. But the Makarov is very similar to the Walther PP/PPK, which were police pistols in Germany. So it's not surprising that you essentially selected the Soviet copy as a backup. Working armed security, I chose an 1911 as my duty gun. But I had an extended magazine for it, as well as standard capacity mags in my duty belt.

That’s a really odd choice, considering the abundance of better weapons in the US, both domestically manufactured and imported. Why did you go for PM, specifically?

@JD-rt5sd "better" is relative! I had it for several reasons: 1) I had purchased it years earlier in the late 1990s for very little, I think about $150 if I remember correctly. 2) When I became a police officer I only owned 2 pistols (and could afford no more)-- the Makarov and a 1944 Walther P-38. Since having to end the life of a suspect w a pistol with Waffenampts all over it would have generated all kinds of issues, the choice was clear. 3) I am only 5'6" and at the time was a rail thin 160 lbs. My issued Glock was WAY too huge to conceal, while the Mak was perfectly sized. I could easily wear it even to the beach. 4) I am very, very good w my Mak, am very fast and accurate w it. And as I said, passed the required police course w it. So, why not?

@@historyandhorseplaying7374 Well, I thought it’s still kind of a bulky and heavy pistol, considering it’s magazine capacity and stopping power. If I had a choice, I’d probably conceal carry some modern compact 1911, over the PM. But if it serves you well and you’re good with it, then why not, indeed. Although having to shoot a suspect with a pistol with red stars on the handle could possibly generate similar issues as the one with Waffenamt stamps.

@JD-rt5sd well for me bulky is better because it reduces recoil to nill-- the heavier the slide and barrel, the less the recoil. I don't like light guns. And it's very well balanced. As for the red stars, unfortunately people have no idea what it means, that history isn't being taught in schools. And my city was very Leftist anyway, they probably like it.

"Patron" ("round") + "matryoshka" ("nesting doll") = "Patryoshka" That works.

Gun Jesus does what Gun Jesus dignifies with a video

he states that in the first 4 minutes blud

Это сказать: "slide" на английском.

​@@aidencraft32not explicitly

лучше использовать слово breechblock. Слово bolt вообще-то о поворотном затворе.

@@worldoftancraft Все говорят: "slide" на английском, когда они говорят о полуавтоматических пистолетах.

It was at first. First versions, super-early ones, which are practically impossible to come by, were made from scrapped PMMs, , but shortly, REALLY shortly after Baikal started making them on their own. They casted bolts instead of smithing and milling like military ones. I mean, they started manufacturing them in 1997, I've got a 2001 one, the earliest I could find, already casted bolt. Later I've seen even earlier ones for sale, I believe 1999, but still casted bolt. MPs with PMM bolt are like Bigfoot, you may spend your whole life chasing them. But I was surprised by the fact, that frames on real ones were also casted and got those ugly notches on front side of grip. And I've even got the same grip, which I also thought belonged only to CO2 versions. But before 2013 they sometimes made special series MP-654K, made from real Maks, they even had thin grip. And Mak bolts are quite close to military PMM bolts, so with a few twigs you may get a CO2 pistol which looks like a real PMM.

@@Sych_Hyich Yep, I own one, bought it just a few days ago. Set me back some 400 euros. They are known as the "32nd" series and are, in fact, quite difficult to come across, even in Russia. It is said that these feature parts from decommissioned Makarovs, although I'm more inclined to believe that they simply had plenty of spare parts in storage. Mine was made in 2012, intended for the export market, came with original bakelite grips, recoil spring. The slide has traces of milling and the spring retainer has a rectangular, clamp style as seen in Soviet production Makarovs. Additionally, it does feature a cut-out for the ejection port. In general, these were made between 2012 and 2013, while around 2019, they restarted production and renamed them to "32-1". Unfortunately, having owned one, they are by no means a step-up in terms of quality. They do retain the same frame/slide style (including the cut-out for the ejection port), but everything is entirely casted and no milling marks can be seen inside the slide and the frame as a whole. Additionally, you can tell that these have far fewer genuine Makarov parts -- the rectangular spring retainer is swamped for a rather shoddily made round-shaped retainer. The internal mechanism, however, is something of a hodgepodge between original and new parts, as judged from some parts having been subjected to heat treatment (i.e., the iconic red tint on the hammer, safety latch, trigger bar/disconnector, sear) and some having been simply blued. They also come in 1980s and later safety latches, 1990s slide catches, whereas the 2012 make would usually keep the original safety latch and slide catch. Even the tolerances are off -- when the slide is racked back, you can see gaps through where the frame and slide meet, whereas the same isn't present on the 2012 make. Additionally, the original, thick grip screw is swamped for a really thin one. Even something as simple as the recoil spring is swamped for a new production one, introduced in the earliest iterations of the PMM lookalike 654k in the late 90s/early 2000s -- it being quite a bit shorter than an original spring. The only similarity that they do have is the rather ugly sandblasted finish, present on all iterations of the 654k, which can be removed with some low grit sandpaper and reblued afterwards. The factory bluing itself is also quite a bit darker and less reflective than what we tend to see with old Makarovs. Personally, at least speaking for the 32/32-1, they do accept original parts. I replaced my safety latch with an East German one, including the hammer and the grips. Without much difficulty, it looks indistinguishable from an East German makarov except for the lack of markings.

@ yep, correct, absolutely. But series 32 ones are not so rare, I can tell you. Yes, they are not very widespread, but in Russia you can come across them, if you search. And 400 euros... Damn... I mean, here in Russia we have them at about 2,5 times cheaper. Never seen one more expensive than 20k rubles, which is 204 euros right now. Usually they go at about 16-18k. 32-1 is 12k brand new. I got my MP from 2001 for 6,5k last year but it's "no-chin", which is a term for mp-654k especially, and has, since it's an early version, all markings on the side of bolt, which pretty much ruins the look. The term above is related to the very end of the bolt, right under the barrel. Some of them look exactly as Maks, some are lightly grinded, so their "chin" is rounded, and some have none at all, giving it more of Walther PPK style. Mine is slightly grinded, but to be honest, I just love this look. I'm also quite a fan of its trigger guard, which is bulkier and its stamped slide catch. Real round ones just don't work for me.... About red tinted parts, well, I've got quite a bunch of them in mine and they are desired by the fanbase but as I've heard, it's basically a tinting defect, but it's rarer so it's considered cool. I don't find it interesting also. And also pardon me my misuse of the word "bolt" instead of "slide" previously. I've just googled, how slide catch is named in English and figured my mistake out. I mean, we use word затвор both for slide and bolt

@@Sych_Hyich Awesome comment. Admittedly, 654Ks of all types are rare in Europe. As I'm from Lithuania, even here, all of them (654k-22s up to 32-1) are and have been out of stock for close to two years. I can imagine why. Elsewhere in Europe, especially Germany, they usually auction them off. 400 euros being the average price even for the more common 654k variants. Similar trends can be seen with Yunker air rifles, all of them are close to or over 1000 euros. If one wants to make good money on the side, he can buy up 654Ks in Eastern Europe and sell them off to westerners. Poles in particular sell a lot of 32-1s that they still have in stock. One may buy one for about 200 euros on Allegro, which is where I got mine. Let's use the Russian term that we are both familiar with, boroda. I do like the beard profile as seen on the original makarov, and so the limited-run 32 series scratches that itch of mine. The grips on the 32-1, especially the brown ones (whereas the black ones are somewhat better looking), look really cheap and reflective. But that's understandable, as they mass produce these even for the Makarych and others. Just in general, I wish they had stuck with the worksmanship standards of the past, by at least including an original spring or doing away with the ugly sandblasting. Here's one funny thing I did notice when removing the sandblasting on the 32-1, although this is purely anecdotal. I found out that underneath it, the metal had plenty of deep indentations and irregularities, almost as if the frame was manufactured in a very cheap and half-assed manner and they wanted to hide it with a coat of sandblasting. I could be completely wrong, but maybe there's a kernel of truth in it. After I blued it, it became far less noticeable. I made a similar mistake, it does seem like the internals in the slide are still considered to be part of the zatvor.

@ sounds somewhat surreal for me, that they auction them off, but I understand it, yep. I guess, it just gets its recognition for its proximity to the real ones. In Russia there is literally no citizen market for pistols, it's prohibited by law, pistols are only for the military, police and government, but we have an unbelievable market of blank PMs. You want it? You get it if you have money. 450 to 600 euros, depending on condition, year of manufacturing and severity of deactivation. Euro is now approximately 100 rubles. A year ago regular price was 30-35k rubles, which was about 250-300 euros. But this spring we had a new law, in accordance to which you have to notify Rosgvardia (kind of more elite police) if you buy or sell a blank firearm. I see the reason, but I grieve because of missed opportunity to have one, since there were no regulations of blank firearms market. I mean, I still can freely buy it, but I simply don't want Comrade Big Brother to get involved in my life. It's not like I want to use it for criminal purposes, but I just simply don't want the police to know I have a potential, since they simply can fake whatever they want if they need. So 654s are getting more popular, since they are quite "just like real", but are much cheaper and need no law involvement. And I guess, they and mp-371 are becoming more of an option for criminals. I guess, I don't need to explain why. About the boroda... Well, it's just purely esthetical question and I fully understand your interest to it. But I shit you not, I've just checked some of social media groups, where people sell new and used airguns and blank guns (apparently, most part of which are 654s, 371s and blank PMs) and I've seen not one, but TWO 654s of year 1999 which were made from real slides but did not have boroda. I know that it was Baikals tendency back then and that they've started making boroda later, but I can imagine, how blasphemous it looks for most of the people. I don't know if you can or want check this out, but in case you can, here's the link to one of them vk .com/ wall -222779890_686 Edit: giving it a second look, I've seen casting marks inside of its slide. But it also has cutout for extractor and milling is also quite visible. So maybe it's from Makarych or something like it. But it surely had boroda before it was converted into MP And about brown grips.. They look cheap and crappy, because they are in fact extremely cheap and crappy. They are notorious for being fragile and crumbling over time. I guess this problem is somehow relative to the brown LEGO bricks problem. Real ones nowadays (at least from what I've seen hanging from policemen belts) tend to have black handles, so you can consider black ones more close to moders. Back in the days they were bakelite, which is more reddish and often has stains. But, if I recall correctly, they never were of such chocolate brown color. And you are most likely are correct about sandblasting being used just for hiding imperfections in casting. I say this, because I've heard it from people, who tried to give it a more authentic or generally more appealing look by re-blackening it. Turns out, frames have quite a tendency to have huge color defects and unevenness thanks to the quality and structure of metal. But it's obvious what's behind it: those are just pneumatic, so why bother, even plastic will work.

Russian firearm laws make it necessary to differentiate between military and civilian models, and usually export as well. So "PM" is only ever a military model.

@@DawidKov Just like in the US

Shield plus magazine looks similar. Shorter “tower”, only one follower and spring, but some similarities.

The ruger lcp max uses the same idea for the mag

He is at breakfast out there. Timed release my brother.

I'm pretty sure that there is a drum magazine for PM that their police units use.

@@RookieL021 i think its just some tinkerers work.

Some companies do make custom grips with a built-in mag release button. They mostly go with the standard PMs though.

​@@JD-rt5sd I am aware of that Zahal company products. They make grips for 8 rounder with mag release, I have one for mine. However this is PMM it is similar but, unfortunately, not identical.

heel release is the feature of the firearm. Something, that modern pistol sportsmen prove utility of. Since it was created to increase ergonomics of all other operations than reload and to prevent accidental release of the inserted magazine.

​@@worldoftancraft time changes purpose of the things, our attitude and requirements for them...initial features are designed around the purpose. heel release also helped not to waste/loose magazines which might be numbered/serialized. Nowadays, general public uses makarov with intention of self defence when a split of s second counts. My initial comment was attempt to reconsider the purpose according to 21st century realities keeping in mind that guns now are very technological items.

@@kristapsziemelis in 21st century a judge can judge you for bearing two high capacity magazines.

Yes, in theory. PMM magazines are rare, you will only find the standard PM version..

@@Sergei_kv82 Brandon Herrera tried it in his double stack makarov video. Worked no problem

@@warrenrhinerson6373 yes of course. You can risk bending them however if you are not careful.

Iževskij Mechaničeskij Zavod

it wouldn't be hard to make one

It’s not necessary 🙂

Chrome lining doesn't make the barrel handle more pressure. It's only as good as it was without the lining.

There is a special cartridge for vz82. It's called 9×18 VZ82 with steel bullet and more power