I am a retired mechanic and feel the joy these guys are going through. Troubleshooting test your skills to the limit. Love it.

Just wanted to give you guys a huge thanks. My wife's buick had the very same problem, I threw a few parts at her with no luck. I came across your video by chance. The car had been sitting for a month, and I was about to give up and bring her to the stealership. I did the exact trouble shooting you guys did and replaced the ICM, and she runs like new. Also did plugs and wires keep up the good work, and again you guys rock!!!!! Thanks.

I am not a mechanic but what I like most About these videos are that he seems very logical in his approach, & tries to actually fix problems as cheaply as possible rather than throwing parts at it. An honest mechanic is a rare find nowadays..

I have fresh coffee, the house to myself, and a new SMA video. What a good sunday this is 🤗

After nearly two decades of R and D, In 2005 GM engineers perfected the 3800, capable of running 500,000+ miles if maintained properly. GMs money people put and end to that shit quick. Best damn domestic motor in quite some time.

HELL YEAH! When it's 2:00AM and I've got nothing to do, seeing this pop-up in my notifications is a blessing.

A few notes. First thanks to South Main Auto for providing us with this video. I'll have to say that this is my favorite youtube Auto repair channel. Having said that I would not recommend pulling coils out with the engine running. This could possibly damage the ICM from a thing called kick-back reactance. I would also not recommend removing the plug wires from the coil towers to see if there is a spark across the gap. This allows excessive high-voltage that could cause an internal short to the coil. Next, I would highly recommend cleaning the mounting bracket the ICM mounts on and putting in some heatsink compound between it and the ICM. Heat is an enemy to solid-state devices and removing the heat from the ICM can increase its life. Last, what we have in this situation is one of the coil driver transistors was bad in addition to the logic circuit being bad in the ICM. This caused some very confusing and unusual test results. Thanks again for sharing this.

Eric, not sure whether or not you're going to see this, but I'll try anyway. Measuring the DC resistance of the coil may not always tell you the entire story. The only way to really know for sure if you have a bad coil is to measure its inductance, and the only way to do that is to use an LCR meter. The inductance of the coil is determined by the size of air gap in its core, and its number of turns around the core. As coils get damaged, often times turns short to each other, or the core cracks, essentially making the air gap larger, both conditions resulting in decreased inductance. A BK precision model 879B would be suitable for measuring that. At $300 it's not cheap, but it's worth the price of admission because it'll pay for itself in unnecessarily replaced ignition coils. Shooting from the hip, a typical good coil probably measures in the order of hundreds of micro-henries on the primary side, and probably thousands of micro-henries on the secondary side. If you measure a few nano-henries, the coil is most likely no good. Hope this information helps someone if not Eric O.

I really enjoy watching a master at work. Watching this video reminds me of a sign someone placed over my work bench. It stated ‘no matter how good you are there is always someone better’. I always knew I can learn from others no matter who they are. Thanks for the education.

I am 74 yrs old been mechanic/millwright etc. Love this guy.

Good video, showing how to properly diagnose using a multichannel scope to trace 3800 ignition woes without resorting to the shotgun replacement method. Nice to know there are some techs out here who still do it right! I worked on the 3800 series 1 equipped GM's which were new at the time, around 1986. That is when I was a young buck tech out of school working for Anderson Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac in Baltimore, fresh out of Lincoln Tech. As I recall some of these GM port fuel cars will disable the coil pack(s) on the cylinders that detect the active misfire(s). This would kill both cylinders fired by that particular coil The unused waste spark fires simultaneously on the companion cylinder's exhaust stroke. In other words, both coil secondary terminals fire at the same time; the cylinder to be fired on TDC compression. The other cylinder opposing it in the firing order fires as well. Sometimes to get the PCM to fire the coil on a misfiring cylinder with a code set for that cylinder, clearing the PCM and erase the engine codes is required. This allows the quad driver(s) in the PCM to ground that coil, enabling the PCM to control each of the 3 coils. For the 3 pairs of module terminals provided, one terminal provides 12vdc at all times, either in KOEO or KOER, the same scenario with the 12vdc fuel injectors. Cam and crank sensors, along with MAP-Baro, MAF, ECM and IAT control timing and injector pulse. Engine cold, this runs the engine off the IAC-engine RPM, base ignition timing and injector pulse / fuel tables. Once at normal operating temperature, the PCM uses adaptive strategy which is then altered based on the sensor inputs. A Quad Driver is a fancy name for transistors that control the ground to various 12vdc devices controlled by the PCM-ECM, whether a simple off-on state, or pulse width modulated. Another popular stumbling point is making sure the right number cylinders are on the correct coil towers, since you can swap them among all 3 positions and mix up the numbers on top of the coil, or in the case of new coils, there are no numbers on the replacement coils. Once everything is running and codes are cleared you will also need to go in with the scan tool and set the RPM rev limiter. Typically on these engines, unless the module was new-ish, at the dealer we would recommend replacing the coil module as well. Running bad coils, multiple misfires, or shorted ignition secondary would stress the module and cause it to fail shortly after a a coil was replaced. Better to err on the side of caution and prevent a possible come back than have the car die shortly after the customer picks it up thinking everything was good. On the 1st generation 3800's the coils were all one. The coil brick as we called it came as a set of 3 coils in one, with 3 pairs of wired terminals that plug into the coil brick. These were even more notorious in failing for no real reason, and simply running with one plug wire accidentally disconnected could blow the coil and module.

South Main Auto Repair and Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics are my "go to" videos to watch! What a treat to have both of you on the same video!

I almost expected the ending to be "Remember viewers- If we can't do it, Keith can....thanks for watching"

I just love it you two took Keith over 2,000 subscribers. I can't wait to see him do some repair videos.

To save everyone the search, there is no part two. Deep in the comments below the channel mentions that the owner basically brought over coils and ICM from a junk car and that was installed and the car ran fine.

This Channel should be called the fixing a Buick Channel! Lol just by chance I got three recommended videos and all involved a Buick lol! Great stuff I appreciate the thoroughness👍 Staten islander here btw😎

I'm also a retired Master mechanic as well . We call you Sherlock around here. It's like watching a detective searching for clues.. Lol!!! Been there done that it can be very frustrating ,but so rewarding when the case is solved . Love your work ethic. Keep it up !!!

Bringing Kieth in and just listening to that experience and the way he just beat you guys down made me laugh my ass off. Great video.

Thanks for the video. Someday people are going to be looking back at these videos and say "Man, those were the best days of youtube!"

This was great! Thanks guys for showing us the problem and for calling Keith.

Very impressive once again. I finally purchased an Autel ms906 scanner for my shop. Definitely opens up a new world. Thanks again.

I want to start this comment off by saying thank you for all of these videos. I have learned so much. to the point where I started working on people's cars as a side job.. as of today, I just got hired as a tech working on porche race cars. in a shop that will allow me to grow beyond anything I thought would have been possible. I still have so so much to learn. but your videos in particular helped me get into the position I am in today. I will be forever grateful.

It has been a privilege and a joy to watch this video, thank you Ivan and Eric.

I love how they figured out what is wrong but didn't just stop there they stayed with it to figure out exactly what is wrong! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!

Just found this site really appreciate your time and effort in helping out with the more difficult problem

You guys need to do more videos together! Wealth of knowledge! Entertaining! Watching this for the 2nd or third time.

Awesome video, I definitely haven't seen a failure like this before! I'm with everyone on Keith making vids soon, that man is a wealth of knowledge.

That's what we call a set up🤔.. You guys really went I depth here and it was awesome as always! Real stars right there folks.

Subscribed to Keith and Ivan! What a happy bunch you are. Great to see people enjoying their work :)

No freaking way Jose. The dynamic duo. Good job guys. Have a good weekend. JB🐴🐴🐴

"Test not Guess" Done, subscribed to New Level Auto

This video is exceptionally useful!! Thanks for staying late on a Friday, and being exceedingly detailed with the diagnostics. I learned a lot! :-)

Thanks to both of you.. This diagnostic video helps teach a whole new dimension of automotive repair when you go over the electrical impulses of automotive engines. Seeing the electrical impulses of each cylinder coil pack as it ran or the absence of it in some cases is like watching a video on the electrical impulses of a heart.

I’m always impressed with Mr. O and his troubleshooting abilities. Always careful and pragmatic makes use of his excellent diagnostic tools and teaches us in the ways of South Main Auto. Terrific video! I was following along until you started pulling coils and it was all vudu from there. 😉

You guys are excellent techs.!!! It is sooooo refreshing to see you guys do proper diagnostics on this 3.8L!! This is how techs are supposed to be able to do things!! I have worked in shops and seen soooo many shade tree mechanics throw parts at the car to try to diagnose the problem, then the owner of the car ends up buying several new parts that they didn't need!!! That type of tech is who causes the rest of us REAL TECHS to get bad names!! BUT, like I tell the customer, I promise them UP FRONT that I will correctly diagnose the problem from the start, and I will only have the purchase the exact part the car needs to fix it!! I always tell people, almost anybody can change car parts!! Usually if a person can figure out how to get the part off they can usually get it back on the car!! But it takes a real tech to do a correct diagnostic the first time, and be able to tell the customer what the real issue is with their car, and not replace parts until they find the problem!!! So great job guys!!! It was nice to watch your video and use your video to show people how correct diagnostics are done!! It's hard for me to personally show people correct diagnostics procedures, because I can't take people to work with me!! So thank you guys!! Great job!!!

I love working with someone who knows as much if not more than me. The going back and forth between you two was amazing to watch. Awesome video.

You should rename this video to " BADDEST ENGINE EVER PUT ON THE HIGHWAY - GM 3800 6cyl runs on two ! "Even without this amazing story it would still be true.

You guys make an AMAZING team, you should have a line of customers with your knowledge and troubleshooting skills

Even the best get stumped sometimes Eric and Ivan.Always good to know someone like Kieth when you get into troubled waters

This is the most interesting diagnosis by far, thanks to you guys, if I should ever come across this, I'll know exactly what to do. Thanks again.

You're a class act, my friend. Working overtime to get him back on the road. Happy new year! Best wishes to you and yours!

Well, you guys have done it!! He has two thousand subs, and is posting videos!! Great job getting Keith on here!! And in one day, no less!!

This might be one of my favorite videos. Love the collaboration of all three of you. That was fun to watch. You would have eventually got there I'm sure.

You two have a great rapport working together. And an awful lot of diagnostic brainpower too!

Possibly the reason the coils sparked during cranking and not when the engine was running is because this ignition system is the bypass type. During cranking and at low engine speeds, the PCM does not apply 5 volts to the ignition control timing signal circuit (Pin B on the ignition module). At that time, the ICM controls the saturation time of the coil windings. Once the engine starts and the PCM starts receiving crankshaft sensor pulses, it applies 5 volts to the IC timing signal circuit and the PCM controls the dwell and spark timing. It's almost a primitive communications line between these two modules. I would figure the dwell is longer from the ICM to make sure the coils saturate well to help the engine start faster.The only reason why this engine is probably able to run on two cylinders is because of its unique firing order (1-6-5-4-3-2) and the fact that they have an internal balance shaft to help the engine run smoothly.I had the GM service manual handy, and decided to throw my two cents in. I couldn't find the primary coil resistance spec, but if I remember right, it's 0.3-0.8 ohms.I'm definitely going to subscribe to Keith's channel. I want to see the crazy stuff too!

I have a caddy cts with a 3.6L. Have 98,000 miles on a performance timing chain I installed some years ago, no more problem. 👍

Good, Clean, Family Entertainment....Educational, Intellectual, Troubleshooting and Problem solving, Just what I needed to see to help me figure out a similar problem. Looking forward to more like this. A big THANK YOU.

Get Keith to do movies from weird electrical problems what he's dealing every day!Love your videos guys!Always cool to wath Eric and Ivan shooting a video together

Double Bonus...Video on Sunday & Ivan & You diagnosing together! Well you picked a good one and I can see how it was easy for the other shop to misdiagnose by not investigating as far as you guys did but they may have been airing on the side of caution with the coils. So what was the conclusion or is there a video. Was busy today doing a radiator and CV shaft on my Mother-in-laws Aveo. Started yesterday as a simple oil & filter, then progressed from there. Keith is a great person and always has time to help. I can't wait to see him in action on his videos. Thanks again for all the videos from SMA & PHD which are always enjoyable to watch!

Those 3.8 engines are tanks. My fav motor by far!!

You never stop learning. I've done what I do for almost 40 years and still learn something every day. ;)

Cdi module is a common fault. Often times someone's done the parts swap and left out the heatsink paste. Cool video. Thanks for being refreshingly honest and showing us the basics.

Yeah I truly miss the 3.8 and 5.7

In the 70s, my dad used the Claxon 55 as his go to diagnostic tool, was right next to the Sun dwell meter and pee bucket

vantage pro, looks pretty sweet. Loved that Ivan stuck around to make this video. Watching you two work together was great.

Awesome collaboration. Eric and Ivan together again. You guys have so much fun together it is easy to forget that you are actually working. Subbed to keith's channel.

I love how you guys joke about that stuff because it's something we see every day and can relate to. Customer comes in with a print out from AutoZone/Advance and says they need an O2 sensor. I do my damnedest to tell them that it doesn't mean they need an O2 sensor and it's probably something else and they should pay for a diagnostic. Some do but there is always the knuckle head that will refuse and demand that you change the oxygen sensor because they are too smart to be tricked into paying for a proper diagnosis. Depending on their attitude they might get a free check to educate them and gain a customer or they might get a waiver saying that they want it changed and we didn't recommend it. Either way we usually gain a customer because they come back with their head down wanting to pay for a diagnostic. These parts stores with free code scans and uneducated shops are bad for our industry and make it even harder for us shops out there that do things the right way.

I went through a similar scenario with my 99 Series 2, for an engine to run that good on two cylinders, wow.

Nice work guys. Eric, you get the the most broken cars that still run. I don't how many times I've said to myself "how is this thing still running?” while watching your channel.

🛑Eric,🛑 Here it is, 3:35am and I've watched this video two times already tonight. This is good stuff (priceless really)!!!! This is the kind of content that is so educational. But the real reason that I adopted you as my number one and favorite channel is; You know when it's time to rely 0n an old fashioned "🐆-SCAN"! My wife said that that was proof you are a great Auto tech. I must admit I wish I had your savvy. I've got over $70,000 tied up and tools and scan tools, but my uncle keeps reminding me by saying; "Sonny boy, you got to be smarter than the tools you use" I believe there's some truth to that Eric. YOU ARE A TRUE CREDIT TO THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY. Ivan seems like a high integrity guy also. GOD bless 🛑📖🛐🛫🛬🛑 🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆

First part of the video is a good example of why mechanics (or anyone who owns or runs a business) should always treat every customer right. Customers talk to other people. If a customer had a good experience and felt like they were treated fairly, they will tell their friends, family, and so forth. More customers, more profits, and loyalty. I've been screwed over by so many mechanics. Screw me over once, I'm done with you and I will tell others if need be. I've taken some time to educate myself on diagnosing vehicle issues. I can't diagnose everything, but I can get a pretty good idea of what's wrong before I take it to someone. Right now I'm between mechanics because the last one never seemed to want to work on the vehicle and I'm a bit "gun shy". There's another mechanic I'll probably try because I've heard others talk good about him and he seems like a nice guy.

I saw Keith's video first and now it all makes sense. Cool case study and I was with you until the master burst your bubble

Tail between my legs say it ain't so. He just elaborated on what you already had instead of the dynamic duo we have the Three Musketeers. Good job. JB🤩

Nice to see both of you working together!

That was one of the best videos I have seen!! I already subscribed to keith's channel awhile ago

OMG ive spent considerable time trying to figure out why some GM cars start so fast? Ive even posted on forums asking this question without a well explained answer. And here is the answer around 14 minutes in! I know it isnt much but youve inadvertantly made my week.

Your videos have been very helpful. My 2000 LeSabre lost power and was running on 4 cylinders but I was able to determine a faulty ICM by swapping coils. My local Autozone wanted $185 for just the ICM but I found one on Amazon with 3 new coils for $120. After an easy install the car runs like new. Thank you! :)

Pull a Fart motors, poot speaking. Yeah theres over twenty years on those parts. The wires and plugs resistance can be higher and the failing module and over-taxed coils have outlived themselves. Your testing teaches alot, thanks very much. But at this age, the baloney in the spark sandwich is not enough, the bread needs to be replaced, the mustard surfaces cleaned, and the hors d' vors plugs and high tension leads. Somebody elses newer GM parts will work great. It can make it the rest of the way. Man its great having you both and you even phoned a friend and gave us another source in Keith. Im in the shop with true greatness in diagnostics, (you must get paid for working.) I am not worthy. We are not worthy ! Seriously, though, i learned alot Eric O, and IVAN. Thanks.

I love watching these diag videos and would love to see some of the stuff Keith sees! Its like having another strategy on approaching these strange problems vs using service information! Also for the timing chains you guys mentioned I love doing them also, even under warranty they still pay pretty good, and so do doing pistons and rings on the equinox.

I understand about 20 percent of what you’re saying and I still find it interesting as hell.

Damn, I started watching this because of an O2 sensor and couldn’t stop watching. Great Job

woke up to nice Sunday morning and fresh hot black coffee and now SMA pops up on my notification! this is pure genius of Dr Eric O and Ivan T with Keith D via phone. this is way over the top video I've ever watched. if there was multiple thumbs up. i definitely would!!! you got that from me. can't wait to see Part 2 of this classic trio working and fixing this misfire issue! kudos to ya guys!

As an owner of one of these cars with the Buick V6's i will say that if your a do it yourselfer its always great to have a spare coil, and module on hand just in case something catastrophic happens on the road. One thing i learned is if you are ever playing around with the radiator be sure to cover up the coil packs because they will possibly misfire if antifreeze is splashed on them.

I love the 3.8. Got one in my 03 Regal. 120,000 miles and still running strong

You two get the really good ones! The Hundai with the camshaft causing the fuel trim problem, a two part video is the one I'm talking about! Great Video, thanks to both of you AND Keith's information also!

You blew up my ancient 'points and plugs' brain. Terrific show!

Awesome guys , look forward to seeing Onboardtech333 uploading some wild diagnostic vids .

The 3800. Guys you're making me cry with this video. I miss my Grand Prix. What other engine can run on two cylinders. Bye the way my 1998 GP had ABSOLUTELY ZERO RUST. Lived it's entire life in Phoenix. I just painted the car, put a new radiator in it and it was running like a top at 235,000 when I stupidly wrecked it. BUMMER.

Seeing this Dec 2019, and not 2000 but 23,000 subscribers for Keith! (New level auto) Super tech! Who could have see the future back in 2017!

Eric thanks for replying to my question. I really enjoy ur videos. And even though iam a ASE and GM mechanic I have learned something new from your videos, you are entertaining with your comments about replacement parts , thx again and have a great night. Your loyal fan Keith

The Keithcall was so funny!

Damn, all the greats either present or accounted for in one video. Eric, Ivan, Paul, and Keith! Maybe one day we can add, Dwayne, Joe, Tom, and Thomas. The ultimate meetup plan. It's a good time to be a automotive diagnostics KZfaq junkie! Thanks so much all!!

Ive had a crank but no start problem twice on a 3800 and both times it was the ignition control module. Wish i wouldve found this video back when i didnt know much about the ignition system on these motors, great job explaining how to test everything!

Great to see you guys working together

Keith's the Yoda of automotive electronics!

Good to see you and Ivan collaborate again! Very interesting problem! Hope you do a follow-up vid!

You guys are just WAY to smart. LOL. I'm seriously impressed with the knowledge and skills you guys have. I managed to follow along but left alone I would be seriously lost. Way to go, guys!

That was awesome that you called your buddy and he was able to give you more info

HA! Now you guys know how I feel when I watch you diag these vehicles! :D I'm at the bottom rung of the diagnostic ladder ... HAHAHA! I've got a long way to go, but between you guys and Paul D., I'm getting it quick. :) THANKS again!

The load pro (used as a wheel chock) is actually a pretty good tool. We use it a good bit to put a "load" on a circuit to check wiring. But with all the other cool tools available I can see why that one is lonely.

Always nice to see Ivan show up

awesome way to start Sunday morning hot coffee and the dynamic duo fighting electronic diagnosis along with some backup great job it's like when I was a kid watching Batman and Robin fighting crime

Outstanding work guys!! I checked out Keith's channel just before I watched this vid and he was at like 850 subs, then I went back after and he was at 1700! Damn that's more than me in a year and 53 vids LOL. Love the collaboration videos 👍

Right off to Keith's channel now and subscribe let's hope this encourages him to make some videos.

Awesome to see who the experts call with questions

As of right now, Keith has 10, 504 subs. Quite an outstanding network you guys are building. Great diag job too.

I would sell the customer the Icm, 3 coils, wires, plugs, and change the oil to protect the repair. you could have a coil secondary voltage leaking into the primary causing icm control and current limiting issues. Worn out plugs and wires could be stressing out the coils which over time started the issue. just my two cents.

1:33. . The money light is on, and it's flashing. . . . That is tragically funny!! I had to back the video up to make sure I heard that right. Lmao!!!

You guys rock! Thanks for sharing amigos

great to see u guys working together Keith is correct I've seen this on these I found a spec in a motor spec book of .5 to .8 ohms on the primary great video 😊