Pratt & Whitney's GTF Engine Problems: US Airlines Could Lose Over $150 Million

Рет қаралды 29,500

Күн бұрын

Developing new technologies in the pursuit of more efficient or more powerful machines is a challenging process. Aircraft engine makers know this challenge all too well - not only during the development phase, but even months or years after their products enter service. In the case of Pratt & Whitney, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued a new directive for its PW1100G engine, which is one of their Geared Turbofan (GTF) powerplants. The engine is one of the two options for the Airbus A320neo aircraft family.
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Пікірлер: 82

@incediery Ай бұрын

wow I'm certain most of these airlines are kicking themselves for going with popular PW GTF instead of the CMF LEAP-A engines..nearly eight years in service and the GTF continues to be plagued with issues

@soccerguy2433 Ай бұрын

Hindsight bias

@incediery Ай бұрын

@@soccerguy2433 buyers remorse happens to all of us at some point...don't get me wrong the GTF is a marvel of modern engineering but eight years in service is more than enough time to work out the kinks

@icare7151 Ай бұрын

The current major problem is linked to a metal powder supplier which also affects other jet engine manufacturers.

@reubenmorris487 Ай бұрын

@@icare7151 This problems' affecting GE right now as well...

@arofhoof Ай бұрын

8 years of service already!

@neilpickup237 Ай бұрын

It is very difficult to compare with the RR Trent issues. I am no expert, however from what I have read, it would appear that the RR issues needed to be identified and fixed by RR. The duration of the problem being due to a degree of uncertainty as to the best way to resolve the issue, resulting in failed, or only partially successful attempts. Wheras, with the P&W engine, this problem appears to be as a result of contaminated raw materials rather than engineering. The issue with P&W being that they are overwhelmed, and even though they know what to do, they just cant fix them in an acceptable time. While the issue with the Trent was bad, and no doubt more the responsibility of RR, the problematic GTF is having a greater impact on the schedules. No doubt exacerbated by the fact that these engines are produced in far higher numbers for the much larger single aisle market. Couple this with the airlines retiring many of their 'older' models during covid, with hindsight prematurely, there simply are not enough aircraft to plug the gaps while the much newer ones are grounded. A perfect storm? It should also be accepted that the Trent issues were at their peak pre-covid, while the GTF is peaking post-covid with the serious supply chain issues still being experienced.

@icare7151 Ай бұрын

The current major problem is linked to a metal powder supplier which also affects other jet engine manufacturers.

@harstoft Ай бұрын

It’s a shame because the GTF is exactly where all closed rotor jet engine designs are headed. Slower rotating bigger fans leads to more efficient propulsion. Let’s hope P&W fix these issues and prove it’s a design that works in the long run.

@iamjesper Ай бұрын

I agree. After all the problem is in the compressor and not the gearbox.

@rafaelwilks Ай бұрын

We've all been hoping the same thing for almost a decade now with these Dependable Engines 😂 how was the CF34-8 doing in 2012, when it was 8 years in service? Remember any problems? Like, anything anywhere even near the problems of the GTF? 🤨

@heidirabenau511 Ай бұрын

The issues aren't related to the actual gear that spins the fans slower, its been due to dust getting into small holes in the engines.

@rafaelwilks Ай бұрын

@@heidirabenau511 and many more issues, too - but, yes, the reduction gearbox itself is just fine

@jeffbenton6183 Ай бұрын

@@rafaelwilksStill has nothing to do with the gearbox. Maybe GE should make one with a gearbox

@user-bp8yg3ko1r Ай бұрын

Thanks, very insightful!

@shauny2285 Ай бұрын

P&W was hit by layoffs during the pandemic plus the distraction of merging UTC with Raytheon.

@liamwood5043 Ай бұрын

*American Airlines dances in cfm*

@LaczPro Ай бұрын

Interesting. I flew last year in an Airbus A321neo with two of those engines. It was the EC-OCC. Nice little plane.

@Monothefox Ай бұрын

Sounds like a GTFO engine.

@fared___3409 Ай бұрын

Till today, theres no flight found on that viva aerobus. So its not fixed yet?

@bmwlane8834 Ай бұрын

I don't how companies weather a cost like this.

@Thisoldhiker Ай бұрын

I assume you mean $150 billion, because $150 million is pocket change to any of the big-four US airlines.

@Baz987 Ай бұрын

Good thing EgyptAir picked the CFM over the PW for their A320Neos

@MarceloTrindade1 Ай бұрын

I know it would be boring to list all the airlines potentially affected by this problem but you could at least have listed the airplane models in each group (considering the airline have opted for the engine involved in the AD)...

@Real_Cheese1 Ай бұрын

Cool

@Dr_b_ Ай бұрын

Nah airlines won't lose anything, they will pass on a "Engine replacement if you want to make it to your destination FEE"

@mikeparkin7262 Ай бұрын

What about the airbus A220 which uses the same engines?

@vladilenkalatschev4915 Ай бұрын

Although this engine is rather progressive if I had a choice I would rather prefer a CFM LEAP engine because it’s more simple and reliable

@bandbigred Ай бұрын

That’s probably why United is taking on 25 NEOs with the Leap engine through lessors

@heidirabenau511 Ай бұрын

*35@@bandbigred

@ZRHTrainspotter Ай бұрын

Just go for CFM LEAP 1A

@alexb7235 Ай бұрын

Is this new AD on top of what was already made public in July 2023?

@heidirabenau511 Ай бұрын

This one superseeds the July 2023 AD.

@user-pt4gf6vk7z 20 күн бұрын

Holy S**t!

@phillm156 Ай бұрын

Revolutionary technologies always have teething issues. They resolved the gearbox issues and they will resolve this. The efficiency and sound reduction in this design is cutting edge and being copped by Rolls Royce (Ultra Fan).

@killerbees177 Ай бұрын

It's been a bad year for aviation

@KC-gp4mf Ай бұрын

What a fiasco. PW need to get there shite together.

@dennissebastian6059 Ай бұрын

way worse. united is dropping rhe pratt for ge

@aus-reviews8462 Ай бұрын

Im sure aircraft mechanics wont mind haha

@yuriymiami2816 Ай бұрын

Airbus is due to get some problems because all attention was directed at Boeing for a while now .

@rafaelwilks Ай бұрын

Dependable Engines 🤣🤣🤣 if you look at data from AeroInside and compare the number of LEAP incidents to the number of GTF incidents, and figure in the accumulated service hours, you'll find out that the LEAP is anywhere between 2, to up to 4, times more reliable than the Geared TurboFailure. To be fair, the fault isn't with the reduction gearbox, which took 2 decades to develop - it really has proven itself to be truly dependable. The problem is with the rest of the engine.

@melbournechugging2999 Ай бұрын

Just send your engines to Delta they can fix it

@Michael_K_Woods Ай бұрын

This directive is nuts. FAA is a disaster.

@heidirabenau511 Ай бұрын

What do you suggest P&W do then?

@christopherescott6787 Ай бұрын

Begs the question. Just how much testing did they do on these engines PRIOR to service on wing?

@harstoft Ай бұрын

You can do a lot of testing. You can also do lots of modelling. However if you find a supplier has given you material not to the specification and you don’t know until after you have built it into the engine, what is an engine builder to do. That supplier will ultimately be footing the bill and P&W will likely be taking their business elsewhere

@michaelmoses8745 Ай бұрын

The short answer is a lot. Out of spec materials and parts that don't get caught shorten the lifespan quite a bit.

@faranger Ай бұрын

I can beat all those times. I am a jet engine beast 😅 Even the Russians respect my ability with the safety wire 😅 I worked for Pratt 13 years stellar work record according to the Company.

@icare7151 Ай бұрын

If I were Airbus I would not offer the GTF on future orders.

@klorevio Ай бұрын

Some airplanes are just designed with one turbine type. Which would mean airbus couldn’t sell them.

@icare7151 Ай бұрын

@@klorevio Airbus has 2 options for the A320 class of aircraft.

@klorevio Ай бұрын

@@icare7151 i did not track it but your right, i was thinking of the 330 neo/350 xwb which have just a single engine option.

@CheapBastard1988 Ай бұрын

@klorevio The same goes for the A220 and E190-E2. The only option for those is P&W and they haven't been reliable.

@icare7151 Ай бұрын

@@CheapBastard1988 if P&W listened to me they would have never had their problems. It’s all about science.

@ronparrish6666 Ай бұрын

pratt and Whitney made great engines Till the GTF came along

@rafaelwilks Ай бұрын

Well, the PW4000-112's fan blades started disintegrating in flight a few times, and those were designed and manufactured long before the GTF 🤔

@cristiandiaz6333 Ай бұрын

One can put lawyers, the police, and union workers in the same bucket. They are all hated, but we all need them. The stock market is about have less union workers because that is the group the cost companies a lot money to employ and they cannot cut corners to accelerate production.

@icare7151 Ай бұрын

PW may go bankrupt as at this point as it really means the entire engine needs to be replaced.

@MBNeal Ай бұрын

Indiana prides itself on having well trained and beyond professional police especially the state police. Whit. Co. Is pretty strict as far as enforcement goes. The courts aren't known for being forgiveness either. I'm sure they heard from the state on this. Indiana doesn't like being in the limelight for policing or constitutional issues. I hope that officer separates.

@Rsantana380 Ай бұрын

i'm shock how airlines still orders the neos with pw crap

@ElmarLecher Ай бұрын

well, it seem to be slightly more efficient.

@Rsantana380 Ай бұрын

@@ElmarLecher not when you losing money because engine is crap

@heidirabenau511 Ай бұрын

Because by the time the aircraft will be delivered, the problem should be sorted.

@tylerdurden4006 Ай бұрын

And yet you guys can't figure out that boieng has the option to buy different engines that don't have problems and don't explode all the time if they spent a little more on safety. More than one company builds and sells engines you know? Quit using such a weak excuse.

@heidirabenau511 Ай бұрын

Trent 1000 on the Boeing 787...