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Kinda surprised this video didn’t mention Hiccup from How to Train Your Dragon when it comes to more complex “Prince Charming-“ type characters. Hiccup technically IS a prince, being the son of his Viking tribe’s chieftain, and while he has a very sweet romance with his love interest Astrid over the course of three movies, his main focus isn’t always on romance, but instead on his friendship with Toothless the dragon and making the world better for dragons and Vikings both. What’s more, Astrid herself is a tough, no-nonsense warrior who doesn’t initially seem interested in romance much at all, but she falls for Hiccup as strongly as he’s fallen for her when she realizes how intelligent, creative, brave, and kind he is. He’s an excellent role model for any kid, and he especially models for boys compassion, open-mindedness, and the power of choosing to forge your own path, showing a kind of masculinity that most movies aimed at kids don’t consider. He’s a Prince Charming in my book!

Gaston wasn't really a doofus. He knew how to manipulate people to do what he wanted. He always got his way, which showed how he treated Belle and the Beast.

‘Shrek’ was so beautifully done. It wasn’t a subversion, it was an explosion of fairy tales.

The guys from Cinema Therapy did a great video on the animated Beauty and the Beast. They explained how Belle didn't changed the beast but he did the changes himself, not necessarily in order to win her over, but because he truly got to care for her, to the point where, after he loves her, he let's her go even if 7t will mean his ruin. Also Belle, even though she got to see him in a new light it wasn't love, in the ball scene she wasn't in love with him yet because there wasn't a choice. After she leaves and she gets to decide, then she start truly loving him, the person he become, and decides to stay. If you like Beauty and the Beast, Disney movies or free therapy, go check the video, is pretty good.

Zuko has one of the best arcs as a prince in any fiction.

Kristoff might not be as flashy as Hans, and was raised by a bunch of rock trolls, yet he clearly views Anna as an equal, and knows that she's strong enough to handle problems by herself.

Cinderella's Prince Charming truly shines in “Cinderella 3 a twist in time” you are not gonna tell me that he jumping through a window scene isn’t iconic

Yeah, but you have to admit that James Marsden's Edward was hilarious.

Really do love how Naveen owned his need to grow up. Tiana didn’t fix him, she was just herself and he was inspired by her drive. Surprised though there was no mention of Ever After- Henry (the prince) has a few character arcs, including the nature of true love, being vulnerable, and what makes a good leader.

I like this but have to disagree about Eugene from Tangled. It isn’t here that changes him, its having a near death experience that he takes off his mask. He was always not the mean, he just had a rough life. When he opens up, he is gradually taking off the mask. In the series he still has much work to do. He works on himself and Rapunzel has to work on herself. They both have trauma. So, I have to say, he is a roll model for boys too.

Funnily enough, Disney has done a great traditional Prince Charming in recent years, but as a big brother figure. Wreck-it-Ralph is strong, competent, has a big heart, and learns to overcome his need to be seen as a hero to be a real hero for Vanellope, a little girl who just wants a friend that cares about her.

yeah they’ve really gotta rewatch tangled and frozen if they don’t think eugene and kristoff have other things going for them than love

I like Prince Philip. He may not say much, but the scenes of him cutting through the forest of thorns and fighting the Dragon are among my favorites. He is the first Prince to have a character, as he opposes his father's will and chooses to marry for love and not politics. Also, although Pongo and Thomas O'Malley were not princes or even human, they have more personality than human princes. Pongo is a loving, caring, brave husband and father, and O'Malley is willing to exchange his carefree lifestyle to assume the responsibility of an entire family.

You forgot the lovely Ever After modern and realistic version of Cinderella as the perfect example of a prince that grows through the story

The Beast and Eugene aren't fixed by their love interests' going through painstaking efforts to fix them, though... falling in love encourages them to fix themselves. Kristoff is just someone with flaws, which everyone has because nobody is perfect and the song acknowledges that, as even you point out. Anna doesn't fix him, they just become a couple, flaws and all, only meeting Anna (not being fixed by her) changes his view that people aren't worth it. There are real examples of "I can fix him" guys but these aren't it. (Frozen 2 did make Kristoff into a joke though and that was sad.)

Kinda surprised you didn’t point out that with the exception of Philip, the classic princes aren’t even named. Even as recently as Beast his name is never said.

I maintain that Prince Philip is NOT a flat character, he just doesn't get enough screen time to explore the personality that is definitely hinted at.

I think Prince Char from Ella Enchanted (the *book*, not the movie) is a perfect example of a modern Prince Charming (which he literally is!) He's not "charming" as in blandly nice, but ACTUALLY charming, because he's funny and intelligent and good-hearted. You get a sense of what it means to him to be a future ruler, his beliefs and values, his sense of humor, his interests, his quirks, a full picture of who he is as a person. And so he feels like an actual human being and not an archetype. And his relationship with Ella is likewise fleshed out and has depth. AND YET, despite this, he's not particularly a subversion of the Prince Charming archetype. He has all the traditional attributes - he IS handsome, noble, brave, kind, polite, etc. And the story largely doesn't call any of those aspects of him into question at any point. But because he isn't those things in a generic and two-dimensional way, he feels like a full and interesting character.

It's funny how we have the term prince charming when none of the princes had that name.

To be fair on Shrek, both Shrek and Fiona were fixer-uppers and fixed each other, with Donkey's friendship also helping Shrek at least.

Kristoff treated anna with respect, he didnt even like her all that much at first, but eventually he fell in love. And asked for consent before kissing her. No kristoff slander! Lol

I've never liked the argument of it's been done before. Not everyone sees all movies, TV, reads all books about subjects that have been done before. What is old hat to one person could easily be new to someone else.

It's a take that that's the definition of pseudo intellectual....they really should re-watch the Tangled and frozen....as neither eugin nor Christoph are one dimensional...

Ok but Flynn Rider/ Eugene X Rapunzel is one of the healthiest and most beautiful animated relationships on screen specially in Tangled the series

The best Disney prince is David (Nani’s boyfriend) from Lilo and Stitch, and he isn’t even a prince. He is a hunky yet realistic and supportive boyfriend with emotional intelligence.

I don't understand how anyone came up with "Prince Charming" when it's almost impossible to find a "Prince Helps With the Chores" even.

Technically Thor and Loki are Disney Princes with fully defined personalities and story arcs 👀

Ever After from the 90s was great with quite dimensional portrayals of Cinderella, the prince, and the stepmother. It was wonderful

I wish Ella Enchanted would get a good adaptation. It's one of the best deconstructions/reimaginings of Cinderella out there and the movie adaptation for it that came out in the 2000s was an insult.

I hate that entertainment aimed at women are like "you should settle for a seemingly less desirable man because he's a nice guy". It's entertainment, you would never see the same for men's entertaintment "you should settle for a less beautiful woman because she's a nice girl". I think the guys in girl's movies/shows should be as attractive as the girl's in men's show, they just don't need to be the center of the show.

Logan Lee as prince of the kdrama Penthouse: mega rich and handsome, but with heart, bravery and compassion. He helps the heroine on her quest for revenge and falls irrevocably in love with her in the process

I agree that we need more well rounded prince characters but tbh I am glad that not every fairytale like story that we get these days is only about romantic love. It's nice to also see other relationships shine. And that just because there a male and female mc they dont need to have a romantic subplot in there. Just showing friendships and the like is really nice.. not that I dont like the romantic stuff but it doesn't always have to be about that.

For me Eric from the little mermaid is the best he just not to want to marry any girl even he as a crush on the girl of the voice in some point realise that he is in love whit Ariel and he doesnt care she can not speak then when she gets voice back and tail he goes to save her accepting she is a mermaid (something different on her) plus he never make feels Ariel less because she can not talk also tries to know her name

tbh, the best example of the selfsufficient princess and the flaud prince were the leads of Ever After. she was a kind, bold young woman with a good head in her shoulders and the prince was strugling with bein himself or follow his duties as royalty. they both encapsulate the best tropes of the independet princess/complex prince.

Maui wasn’t presented as a “prince” type in Moana because Moana is a child. I think it’s pretty forced to include that as an example in this analysis.

It really seems to portray such an odd inequality amoungst the sexes, doesnt it? Either a woman needs a man to save her, or a man needs a woman to save him. Only THEN can you say that you're truly in love.... Tricky. Very tricky 😬

Does Quasimodo count as a Prince Charming? I love his character development in Hunchback, as he gets over his idealized vision of Esmerelda and accepts her love of someone else, realizing she was the friend he needed all along.

Lmao just realised that James Marsden in ‘27 Dresses’ was a Comrade. Now I know why I adore him. That, and him playing Cyclops in the X-Men Franchise.

Romantic relationships are like only a small fragmant of the bigger picture of what makes life so beautiful and interesting and meaningful, we need familial and platonic relationships just as much, as an Aroace I personally can barely see as much greater/grander importance to romantic relationships beyond the fact it leads people to continue their species' biological duty of procreating (which not every single person has to participate in) and act like good or atleast decent parents and caretakers to new generations as possible, I'm not saying they're not as beautiful as other non-romantic relationships but it sure ain't the center of all happiness in the world as all kinds of personal relationships can bring so much light, love and comfort to our lives, limiting it to merely one romantic relationship for the rest of your entire existense just seems so superficial and impractical, then you might as well first have to learn to be alone with yourself without others before letting those others into your life.

It's amazing that Once Upon a Time didn't try to turn Prince Charming into a caricature considering what they did with Peter Pan, Beauty and the Beast, The Pied Piper, The Prince and the Pauper and Jack in the Beanstalk.

A modern day Prince Charming is just Steve Rogers.

There was a good point that I didn’t consider being the type of male characters we need for male viewers. I was strictly thinking about what women will take away from this that I wasn’t fully grasping the problem. But it makes sense that boys and men should get male characters that are aspirational and empathetic. If your only options is being a chad or being incompetent, it presents the idea that men can’t be anything more.

What about Prince Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender? Spoilers ahead for those who want to experience the great series without influence. He goes from a sympathetic villain to a redeemed hero. Zuko grows so much as a person without much help from his love interest. This prince is influenced by his uncle, encounters with others, exploring the world, personal suffering, wrestling with his conscience, facing his past, learning about his family's history, and finally seeing his father for how horrible he truly was. He stands up to his abusive dad and works to gain the trust of his former enemies.

Well conceived and written! May it be heard!

Don’t you EVER disrespect prince Edward like that again 😝

Why did you guys not mantion the charming movie 2018, its about a prince charming that's being cursed to never find true love cus he is cursed to be prince charming to every woman he makes eyecontect with, falling in love with a thief whos cursed to never fall in love again Its worth a watch

I don’t mind fairy tale movies having romance once in a while. Too many idiots keep trying say never now! When done right romance is a good part of a fairy tale movie (whether it’s the main or subplot) perfect example is The Princess and the Frog 🐸!

I think it's an interesting conversation because at the end of the day it truly seems reductive that the men in female-lead stories always have to be watered down in some shape or form, as if the strong female leads wouldn't be able to stand their own against a more fully-fleshed male character. I know it's completely unrelated but it makes me think of the thing that irks me the most about the show Miraculous Ladybug, where Chat Noir is shown to be extremely smart and capable as a civilian, but is somehow dumbed down and not given the most minimal opportunity to be shown as an equal to the titular character when they're crime-fighting. That's the most upsetting thing about media directed towards girls. I also can't stop thinking about how Frozen 2 had one of the most interesting storylines for Kristoff in production but in the end they scrapped it all because his story would've "taken too much focus away from Elsa or Anna's story", so in the end we got an overly played out story that ended up ruining his character.

Just starting to watch, I wonder if you guys will cover what my first guess is at a good answer to why prince charming is flat. It's reverse sexism. The dumb husband on the sit com is another manifestation of reverse sexism. Or in a drama like Rescue Me, when Tommy Gavlin physically thrashes his girlfriend around, we understand that this is his extreme dark side and he's committing intimate partner abuse. But when his wife slaps him hard across the face in the emergency room, it's like that's okay because she's deeply grieving. But it's not okay. I'm myself getting out of one of these relationships with Abuse and Reactive Abuse and I know my reactive abuse was just as criminal as the more multi layered and relentless abuse I was subjected to and reacting to. But we haven't figured out that men are vulnerable humans too. The video essay "Prison Rape Played for Laughs" covers this. We giggle at the idea of the straight man getting raped in prison. How callous and perverse are we as a culture that we grow up finding this funny? This reverse sexism is unworthy of an intelligent feminism, and gives angry, sometimes dangerous men who hate feminism groups something to complain about. This channel is one of the few that might figure this out and help clean up this careless and callous side effect of women's progress. If "feminism is a humanism" we need to show that consistently. Gender swap reboots where every man is stupid and or evil are examples of lazy writing that not good for society. (One exception: Chris Hemsworth turned both his dumb character and his possessed evil character in Ghostbusters into charming comedy gold, but that's because "Thor" is actually a hilarious comedic performer who elevated the material. 😉)

2:04 I remember this!!! That had me laughing so hard as a kid

0:10 - wait, is that «Knight of the Wind» playing on the background?! 😮

I've been watching the Dragon Prince and thought the older prince was actually a great example for preteen or teen boys. He has his own arc, he is complex but he always strives to do what's right (plus he does have a romantic arc).

This is some thing that confuse me when I re-watched enchanted. If the prince was supposed to be a parity of the Disney princesses it’s kind of confusing because none of them really act like that. The one that seems to parity the closest is Prince Philip and that’s also not what he’s like. I don’t think any of the Disney princes fit the overly confident trying to be a hero thing he had going on

Interesting video. And you’re right, it’s like which flavor of himbo do you want? Muscles are a personality right? Also, that was a very smooth transition into the ad read so props there lol

Let me put it this way. We are all fixer uppers. We all have things to work on and improve. It is part of being human. We decide what flaws we can love with because their perfect qualities outweigh these flaws. I think we should both genders as human and a little bit of a fixer upper because that is being human.

So a man gets to have a "princess" regardless if he's "prince charming" or deeply flawed bc women can overlook his appearance and focus on his personality and fall in love but the same patience, understanding and love isn't given to women, especially unattractive women. This is a tired trope lots of films portray.

I have to ask: How does a character like Ted Mosby relate to all this?

I think that prince Edward in Enchanted is resented as he is suppose to. Plus, played by James Marsden ...makes him so delight to watch, especially compared to the other dude(played by Patrick Dempsey)

Honestly I've dated every archetype listed here. I even married the blond striated chilsed jaw line guy. He literally was just under my skin irritating.

PRINCE BEN FROM DESCENDANTS IS THE BEST DISNEY PRINCE HES SWEET KIND INTELLIGENT CONSIDERATE OPEN MINDED AND HE HAS A BIGGER GOAL THAN JUST MARRY THE PRINCESS I WILL TAKE NO ARGUMENTS

How did you not include Prince Wilhelm from Young Royals? It’s literally a modern prince questioning his role whilst finding and losing love, and growing because of it, and his love is a working-class boy with a story of his own. It’s got everything: queer romance, mental health issues, class difference, drama, crime, betrayal, friendships, a power-hungry antagonist who is also fleshed out… it’s so good.

Would love to have a strong positive prince character for little boys who love Disney movies. Some little boys dream of being Prince Charming just like some little girls want to be Princesses.

Flynn is the best Disney prince

With Eugene, nobody saw him as more than a theif until rapunzel stood up for him. After that moment he stops trying to get rid of her. He's great. So is Edward, I love him.

Surprised the Prince Charming reframing from ABC's Once Upon a Time wasn't included, on that series the leads undoubtedly were the female characters and mostly their partners did have a more fleshed out character

Prince Charming in Cinderella's dead eyes are pretty terrifying, guess you only notice that as an adult.

I would like to see Disney doing a love story again

I appreciate the nuance of this video and that it seeks to provide men with good role models!

THANK YOU! Nobody says it outloud but reducing male characters to boring and pretty or human and unavailable is weird. Both parties in any relationship deserve to be multifaceted.

The Princess Bride is still the perfect movie. Great character development for both leads and shows a strong male who is seeking love.

Rly loved this vid, but im disappointed u didn't mention Tom Wachowski from Sonic.😭Hes one of the few examples of a fleshed out, virtuous Male character. Basically just the prince archetype in but in modern times, but having actual depth. (Hes also played by James Marsden!😂)

I miss the dashing, capable, hot princes 😢 I miss romance….

Can you please do a trope video on The Chosen One?

Moral of the Story: Well written HIMBOs will save us. We need more well fleshed out Himbos in media.

Thanks! 👋

“I can fix him.” and doing lots of emotional labour? We don’t know her 🌝

Kristoff es todo lo que está bien!!

Great topic! I think may be saying prince as the subject seems to make ppl think that this is a prince problem but I feel like it's more than that. I feel like it's a male character problem in general. Disney overcorrected (like they usually do when it's trendy) in favour of the social movements and dumb down male characters to let the female characters shine. As much as the intention was good, it made a lot of men in Disney films one dimensional. Now male characters are the damsels in distress. Doesn't leave room to explore the vulnerability of being a male character. Maybe I'm blanking on it but I don't remember the last time Disney did a Prince or Princess story since Moana and that barely counts.

I love Enchanted because Robert is the hidden true Prince Charming. In the animated opening Giselle is making a mannequin of the Prince she imagines. She finds Robert and they enchant each other. In then in the ball scene Robert is revealed to be resembling the mannequin and wearing the same outfit. He was a hurt, disillusioned, loving single father who was broken after being left (divorced?) by his ex. She and Robert save each other and both realize they must change a bit. Wonderful movie I also love Leopold (a duke) from Kate and Leopold

This video just helped me recognize how common the “energetic, naive girl with cynical, pragmatic man” pairing is and… yeah, it never gets more interesting each time I see it honestly. There’s also something weirdly patriarchal about it too..

I think the beast is the most complex character of his movie though

What about Kuzco from "The Emperor's New Groove", wasn't he also a prince (though technically an Emperor) who, like Naveen, learns to care for others and have more empathy when they're "humbled" by a higher power and turned into an animal? I would also include Kenai from "Brother Bear" in that category: a young male character who grows emotionally and matures not through the love of a female protagonist love interest or princess, but through an initiation which involves being turned into an animal and losing their high status (for a while).

15:08 Herc is son of King of the gods so that definitely counts as prince by story telling standards

What was the Looney Tunes episode they reference at the start? I swear I saw it on Cartoon Network back in the days.

07:14 Now that's one smooth daily sponsor integration. I love it that you have made another male trope again.

great no mention of once upon a time

Could you do a video about toxic or just really obsessive in laws. in particular the mother in law from hell. I see so many stories on tik tok from people. mainly women who have a really toxic mother in law. She doesn't like or approve of her son's girlfriends and doesn't respect boundaries on stuff like who can see the baby after it born or posting about things on social media and like just always putting down and clashing with the daughter in law because she can't handle the fact that she is no longer the lead woman in her son's life. It also sometimes often borders on a Jocasta Complex (the reverse of a Oedipus complex) where if she could, she would b a mom wife to her son and like marry him. She may be obsessed with a certain ex of her sons who was more like her and may pit her daughter in law against her actual daughter. It's just becoming a common thing at the moment and it will be interesting to explore it.

Does Prince Zuko count?

The prince was always a stand-in for financial stability and higher social status. He was the only way a woman could obtain those. To make him more complex...what about the new Cinderella on Amazon Prime that was done recently? He grows in the way that he decides to relinquish his crown to be with the woman he loves while she pursues her interests. He takes an action that allows them to be together beyond just liking her. Thoughts?

What about Galavant? 😊

These videos used to be so much better in the early days. There’s so much cherry picking going on here. You really shine when you don’t pick a broad topic of trope but a movie or character as the focal point of the analysis.

Okay hear me out: prince Zuko!

The Take didn't include or used Princess and Princes from the Barbie franchisees 😭

I think it's great to have nuanced complicated characters, but I sort of chuckle about saying how fairy-tale stories would benefit from everyone being complicated. At the end of the day fairy-tale movies are generally stories are meant to deliver a simplistic message and I believe there's probably a limit to that kind of format. If you want ALL the characters to have depth then either it's going to have a limited cast or it's not going to be a movie, or it's not going to have a simple message.

Propably the most three-dimensional male character Disney has created was Milo from Atlantis:The Lost Empire, Jim Hawkins from Treasure Planet, and Aladdin fro being the protagonist on his own movie. Milo and Aladdin even have well-rounded relationships with three-dimensional female leads...not one notes. I will give credit to Belle and the Beast though, because their relationship wouldn't be the focus of the movie if both weren't developed as characters. They both go through their own arcs in th movie. It really needs to be a balance between the two if you are going to create a fairytale romance story, otherwise, it doens't stick the landing and people don't really care if the entire focus of the movie is just one character and the otherone serves only as a prize at the end... Add in the comments if I forgot someone...

Crown Prince Wilhelm from Young Royals.😏

She's all like blah blah blah yeah blah blah.

If you listen to the song the rock trolls sing, we are all "fixer uppers" that is the human condition. And loving each other can help sand down the rough edges.

This is a good one. (And I'm not just saying that because I'm a guy). It actually got me thinking about something I've probably been taking for granted in all these movies I like. How modern Disney has responded to fixing romantic dynamics by... Just not doing them. If i didn't know any better, I'd think they were running from a subject they don't know how to handle in a balanced way. In the 12 years and 39 theatrical releases since Tangled, there have been exactly 0 love stories. Holy shit. (Unless we count Toy Story 4? But was that a romance? Or was that a kidnapping? Who knows? I'm pretty sure the series ended with Toy Story 3, so I don't even know why I brought it up a movie that doesn't exist)