Haha ya that crazy...feet reveal when 👀

I honestly thought this was a bigger channel just based of the script quality. Your doin awsome man, keep it up!

On the subject of cost, GW _definitely_ overcharges. As a point of comparison, look at a company like Wargames Atlantic. They produce a robust and growing selection of Imperial Guard style plastic kits. Kits which generally give you twice as many models or more than their GW equivalent, at half or less the price. With plenty of weapon and equipment options to satisfy the mechanical requirements of the units they can represent. Not to mention multi-box deals or free shipping, which make building a Guard army actually affordable. (Also, they make kits mimicking Guard regiments GW no longer makes anymore. So they're the superior product of the two by default.) GW both hiked the price for a Cadian infantry squad, AND got rid of the 5-man Cadian easy-to-build kit that made it marginally easier to fill out a force. It's like GW is hostile to the very idea of people building a Guard army. Although Guard fans already knew that, given it seems the Squats will get their new army released before Guard gets their 9th ed codex. At a time when 9th edition is almost over. GW just hates Guard, it seems. Hates Guard and hates Guard fans. They'll still try to shake them down for everything they're worth, tho.

I love 40k, the world, lore, characters, the entire aesthetic, how it all looks, feels and works together. Yet I have never played tabletop, it's too pricey and time consuming to be building armies when I've got nowhere/nobody to really play with either. So I read the books, play the video games and have a few of those Macfarlane figures and that suits me.

my tips for people wanting to get into warhammer on a budget are: 1: don't! seriously the hobby is stupidly expensive especially in australia, especially when you need: the core rules, faction rulebook, and at minimum a 500 point force, paints 2: prioritize: you don't need every option for your army what you need is 1 to 2 hqs and 2 to 4 troop options (more if you play a hoard style army like guard, nids, orks). you do not need every book for the game, what you need is the core rule book and your faction's codex! 3: 3rd party hobby supplies: you don't need gw's brushes, tools (sprue cutting nippers a knife and a files for removing mold lines), glues, dice and measuring tapes! all of these 4: buy from stores other than gw: most gaming stores that stock gw stuff but aren't gw will do a percentage discount and this discount is increased if the store is predominantly online, you also don't have to but brand new miniatures 5: learn to conversion build: conversion building can be a good way to save money at the cost of increasing the amount of time you spend building the model but it can allow for you to do things like turning a 10 man squad of basic infantry into a 10 man squad of something else that would normally be sold in a 5 models per box unit. a good example of this is using multiples of the recruit edition starter set from 9th ed 40k (clarifying edition because gw 40k editions last 3 to 4 years regardless of world events) and using the 5 assault incessors to build bigger 10 man squads and turning multiples of the bladeguard lieutenant into a unit of blade guard (a space marine elites choice) or alternatively using that set to built up a decent force of necrons and turning the royal wardens from 5 boxes into 5 necron immortals using spare bits left over from building the necron warriors and some headphone cords or heat bent plastic card for the hose to the models back. i do plan on having tutorials on doing both conversions on my youtube channel this year but life is a mess for me right now 6: YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE BRAND NEW MODELS, BUY SECOND HAND MODELS AS OFTEN THEY WILL SAVE YOU MONEY 7: try and have a simple colour scheme for your models, in the long run it is a good idea not to need lots of paints for your models and if you are on a budget that is even more important 8: hobby addons: while having copies of the new campaign book or monthly magazine can be nice and will now and then teach you something you don't need them over having a decent strength force for the table top, you also don't need warhammer subscription services like warhammer plus! if you are a new player they aren't all that beneficial to you since they don't come with the rules for your army on them unless you buy the physical or digital copy of the book. for game lore, battle reports, painting tutorials and even animations you can find mountains of them on youtube for free! 9: terrain: LEARN TO BUILD YOUR OWN!: seriously terrain kits cost an utter fortune regardless who makes them and that money is much better spend on your core army for the game. there are countless youtube channels that do terrain tutorials 10: before playing against a new person it is a good idea to watch them play a bit first, this can give you an idea of the kind of player and bad experiences of playing the game can really hurt your hobby enthusiasm. beside you want to have fun and having your entire army tabled by the end of turn 2 isn't fun!

You have better script quality and pacing then many of the bigger youtubers I've seen, earned yourself a sub!

A lesser known game is Epic 40k, it's an old variation of the game which uses 6mm scale with larger scale armies and vehicles, so you can easily have a block of 40 soldiers, a squadron of tanks, knights and titan walkers etc. It's very affordable, most prices are 40 troops for $10 or 3/4 for $10, the rule book is also a free PDF available online. The downsides are it no longer supported by GW officially, so models can be harder to find, but in the age of 3d printing there are people always around to provide models. Also customisation is limited due to their size, so that's something you have to think about.

The point about putting codexes online/ reducing the overal price of models is a really good one. GW's profit margins are public info and they're veeery above average. So not only can they afford to do this without making a loss, I agree that in the long run this will in turn make them even more money. As a fairly new player myself I had interest in the hobby for years before starting on my first mini, the initial hurdle and money investment just seemed too large. Some of their store programs make the initial step easier but the price is still such a big turnoff, if anything it pushes the 3D industry even harder. Which is noticeable by the sheer amount of proxies, copies or gw inspired stl files online. Though it seems they might be experimenting a bit with it and def know it's an issue. Starter sets and the killteam rules being online for free are a good start.

Highly recommend playing Grimdark Future from One Page Rules. It's got all the factions (plus a bunch extra) and the "feel" of 40K, without the complicated rules. Hardcore players might consider it simplistic (although there are optional rules to mitigate this somewhat), but it's a very efficient system that respects the time of its players. For a vast majority of people who just want to play with their toys in the time their schedule allows, Grimdark Future is more than sufficient. It's the version of 40K for people who want a life _outside_ 40K. (Plus, it just has loads of quality-of-life improvements. As it turns out, much of 40K's mechanics flow directly from clinging to ancient design decisions. And simplifying it to make the game faster also just makes the game more fun.)

Solid, clear and understandable points. Thing is, GW changed a lot, from a simple company, led by passionnate people and made to a wide bunch of people, to corporate and businessmen considering only customers. Worse, with the crazyness of IP, they went crazy and cancelled passionnate (but free) content. And, as a stupid brand, they thought about the short time and maximize money now. The sculptors are amazing, but the brand clearly focuses on 2 things : space marines, because they are the most popular faction and quite obscure rules, made to limit open official tournaments and more or less justify the overprices or basic rulebooks with less content than before (just check 2nd edition Codex). True, they should follow most of your points, but that would be a gamble and long term strategy, so they won't do it. Sadly.

Two words... KILL TEAM

How the HELL does this channel have only 1.7k subscribers? These were very poignant insights, very clearly and concisely delivered, and providing levity where needed. Well done!

Look into one page rules! It's warhammer, but: You're not stuck with certain minis, you can even 3D print your own. Meaning the cost can be really cheap! The rules are simpler and free. The fan based isn't toxic. And so on and so forth. And you can find online matches on their discord.

The prices are definitely higher than they need to be. For example, a box of 10 cadians with various heads and special weapons is $50, but for $56 you can get 30 infantry with assorted weapons from a contemporary game focused on ww2 called Bolt Action from Warlord Games. For $60 you can get a single Leman Russ tank, in Bolt Action you can get 3 IS2s and a squad of infantry for $93. Ive painted a box from Bolt Action and 2000+ points of Guard and can tell you the quality is similar as well, actually i think the Warlord minis have less mold lines. GW is also a far larger company then Warlord but Warlord still gives you much better value. I still love my Guardsman though, just wish i wasnt being overcharged for them.

My counter to "removing rules makes the game too simple and boring" is the game "Grimdark Future" by OnePageRules. The core rules are one page, army "books" are one page, and the full expanded optional rulebook is under 30 pages including large diagrams. It's got plenty of strategic depth, very fun to play, and games take about half as long as a comparably sized 40k game. You can use your existing 40k models to play it, AND it's free! I highly encourage people to try it.

Join the dark side… play fifth edition and print 3D models with your friends! I’ll admit I had a leg up in my youth, with GW prices still working their way up to the present highs and having an older generation of family members already heavily immersed in the game since the 90s. Even so, I haven’t bought an official kit from GW for about three+ years, and the last thing I did buy was my small but respectable Death army for AoS (though I do not play it often enough at all). All my recent 40k additions have come from 3D printing, as well as all of my bio-titans (I mainly play Tyranids, and lots of them). Further, I purchased a lot of what I have from gaming conventions in the past, pre built and painted for a fraction of the cost. There are ways to get into the game in a thrifty way, but it’s increasingly difficult to do so when engaging solely with GW. As for rules, all my family and friends have gone back to fifth in the last year. The codexes are cheap (I got three copies of the Nid dex, one as a gift, one for $12, and one for $2, no joke), and the rules are incredibly simple and streamlined. And of course, you never have to buy new rules again. We have just tampered with the base rules a little to add two or three elements of other editions we liked or some kind of intuitive effect, but there really is no need to. Played a 7500 point apocalypse game with my Nids against combined Eldar, Imperium, and Tau a month ago, and we did the whole thing in six hours. It’s glorious!

I miss Emperor TTS It was perhaps one of the most iconic internet series I always followed never played 40k once, but couldn't help with every fan made animation Until GW brought in WH+ and forced all producers to nuke their years of content

Interesting note about your idea of factions that could be combined, at some point most of them were. Grey Knights were part of Space Marines and Genestealer Cults were part of Tyranids in 2nd edition and Chaos was a singular army until relatively recently. IMO I don't have a problem with similar looking factions or sub-factions becoming there own army and it generaly happens when there is enough demand for it (like separating daemons and chaos marines). Personaly I would like to see Kroot expanded beyond Tau auxiliaries and into their own army (there is some great fan-made stuff out there for kroot based proxies for other armies).

Great video! The biggest thing I took from this and it is common to a lot of new players I speak to is there is a real mental hurdle when it comes to understanding that it is an almost impossible task to have a good working knowledge of the rules for all the various factions and sub factions in 40k. This has its benefits (more flavour) and downsides. There are certainly things that GW need to and can to in order to address the accessibility of rules but there are limits to what is possible. As someone that started in 3rd edition, took a long break and came back in 8th I would say try not to get to hung up about what your opponent can do, ask questions because a courteous player will answer rules queries and focus on having fun as much as possible. At the end of the day the GW games systems may not be for you but if you cannot have fun then you are on to a loser from the start.

I'd say this is a solid take. Although I think I disagree with the rules argument. However thats becuase I would rather see a return of the more tactics and positioning based rules akin to the old, pre-8th edition ones. (Pinning, fleeing troops, flamethrower templates, and the side you hit a vehicle from mattering.) As I have found that the game is packed with rules based more on buffs, special abilities and synergies. TL:DR: There ARE a whole lot of rules, more army rules than core. Most focused on "out maths-ing" your opponent. Than "out tactics-ing" them. I would like to see both switched/reversed.

Brilliant script, brilliant pacing, explained your topics without starting to yammer, great memes without being cringe. Great Vid Noot, good things are going to happen to your channel 👍

As someone whose been playing for like 20 or so years, you hit the nail on the head with every point. I think the problem is the company has gone public so now they're beholden to shareholders to make more money year after year which shifts the focus to squeezing money out of their fans however they can. GW has always been a notoriously shitty company. The relationship between them and their customers is like an abusive marriage. They've currently adopted FOMO tactics to get you to spend more ey on things you normally wouldn't and I'm just burnt out with it all at this point. I assume if they don't adapt to the digital market they will go under. Fortunately it's my belief that Warhammer doesn't need GW, the fans will keep it alive.

The space marine chapters are really good examples of the rules bloat you were talking about specifically with stratagems. When i played from mid 8th edition to early ninth edition each chapter had it's own codex with a full 3-4 pages of stratagems on top of the universal stratagems and the space marine stratagems, and many of them had similar effects with different names. When i saw the expansion they made for chaos space marines where they each had some unique warlord traits, relics and a single page of stratagems all in one book, it struck me as to how much better designed that felt for the legions

Great video! I am also pretty new to 40k and have played like actual 2 games but I watch a lot of matches for DiceCheck. It help me learn but then people would do stuff and I would have to go read codexs for like 45 mins just to understand why they could or couldn't do something. Also as a long time MTG player I see alot of factions have the same stuff but just call it something different and just think to myself "that could have been less confusing if it was just a Keyword or something". Keep up the work man this was a really quality video!

As a long time Warhammer player (15 years maybe?) Yeah you're pretty much spot on, especially with the rule books and codexes, it's ridiculous that you can buy a brand new codex on the day of release and a week later its out of date. I actually think the most recent Ork codex was out of date before the book went sale. I would throw so much money at a decent app with all the books that gets automatically updated

1. Kepp it up man, good stuff. 2. I had my falling out with 40k recently and am working on my AoS stuff. The Comparison was 1 game of each as a total beginner and i had way more fun with AoS than 40k, even though i lost. And in the 40k game i was forced to play with faction rules, despite absolutely not knowing how to basically do half the stuff, so anouther contra point for 40k in my books. 3. AoS has overall nicer models, like you said, and i got really excited that they made a new Character for my Army, that being the Kharadron Overlords. Anyways, hope you do more stuff like that.

This aged nicely, with the introduction of 10th edition, GW says they will address the rule bloat and other items mentioned in this video. Only time will tell if that is true though.

What's wild is that GW has addressed a lot of these concerns with 10th edition

"Without knowing what the production costs are" in comparison to the price. Allow me to blow your mind. It is standard protocol for games workshop employees to allow thefts without stepping in to risk harm, and only inform local law enforcement, as, the hard facts; the costs of the box, art, wrapping, and similar manufacturing expenses exceed that of the plastic that sits within said boxes. Let that sink in for a while. You're welcome. :)

My advice if you're getting into this start with something small where you can still play games like Kill Team for example, literally 1 box of minis. Also limit yourself to one faction. People get sucked into the latest release or meta so end up with multiple forces non all painted or even with enough units for a larger tournament capable entry etc. All factions have their advantages and disadvantages. And have their day in the sun when GW drops a new rule book for them. So go for something that looks cool for you, maybe grab a novel or and and read some stories on some characters and factions so you get a feel for their lore etc. Then you can make a well informed decision on not waste your time and money.

10 minutes that felt like 20 minutes in a goodway! Solid editing and BGM choices, subbed

Glad you came across my feed! I've been in the game since the start of 8th edition and you voiced many of my issues from when I got into the game and even until now. Coming from a D&D background I understood having a paper rule book but needing to buy an individual PHYSICAL book for each army just felt weird. With how many rules each faction, sub-faction, and unit can have, along with my opponent's, it can get incredibly overwhelming even today. Another issue that doesn't get mentioned often to new players is how GW updates their factions. Knowing someone who got into Astra Militarum at the start of 9th edition, and almost 2 years later they STILL haven't gotten new rules for their army, leading them to feel like they made a poor investment being much worse off competitively, even in casual games.

I couldn't agree more with the fact that lowering the prices which will bring more customers in general

I think there's been a mistake. You mentioned some sort of "Astra Militarum" but you showed pictures of the Imperial Guard. Don't know who those other guys are. Simple mistake. In all seriousness it's refreshing to see someone new is coming to the same conclusions as everyone else. Though I must partially disagree with you on the rules bit. The game relatively recently had a massive rules simplification in 8th edition. 8th was very healthy for the game at the time, but it ended up being a double edge sword. You no longer had to go check the main rule book to find the source of a reference of a reference of a rule, but you also no longer had the tactical mechanics of vehicle facing or firing arcs. Blast templates and scatter dice were gone and artillery was boring now because of it. We gained simplicity at the cost of both depth of tactics and immersion.

I started playing online on tabletop sim using wahapedia and battle scribe. It only costed me $20. Only after I beat a veteran player did I decide to start physically collecting minis.

Earned a sub. Keep it up man. Video quality is that of a much bigger chance.

You've got a strong grasp on the problems, there's always been a marine bias and people have always been disgruntled about it ( see 2010s era dakkadakka forum posts malding about how horus heresy and badab war don't deserve the absolute heaps of content they received because X and Y xenos is cooler. Now people want female space marines even though sisters of battle exist, there's a lot of goobers in this community ) but I learned to embrace it. As you said, marines are really fucking cool, and the deeper you dive into them, the more you realize how cool they are. The absolute level of detail, edginess, goofiness, and complexity found in 2010s Warhammer always caught my eye in a way Star Wars could never do for me. Chapters like the Red Scorpions, which are a bunch of elitist retards that distrust normal humans so much that they refuse to work with them and created a whole ass land raider modification OUT of that refusal to work with guard artillery. They also ditch guard mid-conflict constantly when the tide is turned on them. The Space Sharks, which are my favorite bulldog helmet, pale skinned, chain axe wielding stealthy psychos with a chapter master ( Tybereos the Red Wake ) equipped with giant harpoon lightning claws with underbarrel chainfists, and the Minotaurs, which are just Loyalist Iron Warriors but ALSO melee monsters and their chapter master is also a unkillable schizophrenic behemoth named Asterion Moloc that wields a ancient custodes spear and everytime he dies just comes back like nothing happened. THAT'S the good space marines, and although I still model the old tiny ones, Games Workshop doubled down on the marine marmalade with Primaris. No one asked for primaris, the only thing the community wanted in a similar vain was scaled up marines of what already existed. Then started a downward spiral of the monopose models, reduced loadouts, a 180 in artstyle from gothic design and distinct shapes to what is basically tau space marines with grav tanks and piggybacking off old model designs like the mk4 helmet. Not saying new marines can't have it, its just that ALL of them do without upgrade sprues. Originality is on empty for games workshop, which is why they're digging up dead factions like squats and navy, which they gave fuck all about before. Everyone has their opinions on whos fault it is, if they think there's a problem at all. It's certainly not the game store owners, local or GW alike, they're usually great people, it can be drawn to middle management and stockholders having a circlejerk over 20194% profit margin plastic toys (exaggeration), because between whales and dad bod minimum wage white knights, Games Workshop won't die 3 life times from now. The people fear mongering them declining only do it for views, 3D printing has a long way to go in that regard with being accessible, but 40k could be so much better, the mouthy types are right about that much. Jamison Workshops is starting to act better, but it's already too soured for me, and they'll just fall back into their same habits because that's how they are. It ties back to making your own deductions as you've done really well, not siding with either party. I'll stick to homebrew kill team with my ohio friends new to warhammer across the country, this is just a art hobby for me now. The state of the game is what every complaint in 7e was, sensory overload. Make traitor guard, corsairs, and exodites armies again. Make more xenos stuff that isn't resin stuff into forgeworld. Oh yeah, forgeworld. You should look their lineage, PDFs of the old imperial armor books are easy to find online. Guard, Tyranids, D/Eldar, Orks. All of them had very detailed expansions in units, stuck in resin. There's a sort of struggle for that much needed variety from forgeworld, but between the material being hard to work with, disgustingly overpriced, and given the label of "power gamey" by fa/tg/uys and sigmarxism types ( when you can just house rule them weaker or not use them instead of writing college thesis's on losing to a toy, you retards ) they've fallen by the way side. Maybe one day games workshop will not eat dogshit for breakfast lunch and dinner and breath it in our faces. Shoutout to the artists at games workshop who do the hobby great and still amazing pieces, the quality hasn't waned at all there. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

3 Major barriers 1) Price.... O my gosh, it's so expensive it hurts! and that doesn't even tell the whole story 2) Over bloated rules and changes to those rules nearly every week..... New editions, FAQ's, Dataslate, Chapter approved and random Tuesday morning changes..... "I think I have a headache" 3) The company itself, after spending thousands of £'s over years I get told by GW "I wont be missed" GW seem as if they wont an elite group of customers and the rest of us go jump, their kind of one step away from chasing Fans down the street with pitchforks screaming "Go and play 'Snakes and Ladders' you peasants"

great video, as a player who started at 5th edition 40k, I agree with all of your points.

God I missed your videos the level of quality you have for such a small channel is phenomenal.

So I’m also new to the warhammer hobby, and I’ve been loving kill team. Only needing 1-2 boxes of models so it’s a lot more affordable.

I’ll be honest I get the physical copies of the rules because they don’t break if you beam someone in the head with them. Unlike my precious minis

I have played since 3rd edition as a casual player, you are entirely correct. AOS also has datasheets/warscrolls online as free pdfs, while 40k does not. Its the same company!

Also new to the franchise. I like learning about the obscure xenos in warhammer.

Good video! Although in terms of Age of Sigmar I think it has the opposite problem to 40k. Almost everything is outlandish and if you want simple dudes in armour and you don’t like the storm cast, you’re kinda stuck right now. It badly needs a regular human faction or two like the old world setting had.

There seems to be a split on the rules thing. Many people, especially new players find the game very complex and hard to get into because of it. Meanwhile others, especially people who have played older editions which were even more complex find the current editions to be too simple and dumbed down compared to what the game used to be. I am a newbie for sure, but the main draw of the game for me is how overcomplicated it is, but I've never played the older editions so I'm not honestly sure whether I stand on the side of the game being fine or needing some extra rules just to add that bit of mess.

Firstly, great video! All fair points but from an experienced player and collector I have some counter arguments for discussion, but again I love your points :) Cost - GW release value boxes all the time that are a great efficient way to enter the hobby - There are also many FB Groups that sell 2nd hand unpainted/unassembled/painted etc armies for a fraction of the price. This is were I started and saved a lot of money Rules - Yes, there is a lot of rules and it can seem overwhelming, however, this learning curve is actually something I enjoy doing and figuring out. I've just finished playing in my first tournament with the offical rules and although I didn't win any matches I thoroughly enjoyed every game and meeting people in the hobby. This was an experience I thoroughly enjoyed and can definitely say I'm 'hooked' and realised I have so much more to learn rules wise. Access Yes, accessibility is a very tricky thing and GW charge a lot as they have some very loyal players and I don't think they're that interested in expanding too fast TBH. They had a huge spike during covid of sales which I dare say is people buying and painting. There is a few tiers of people that are involved in the hobby; a) enjoy watching lore videos and reading the books, and vicariously tap into the hobby from afar b) people that have some minis and paint c) people who have some minis and watch people who play but don't play themselves or play very little d) people who actually play Each of these steps are major steps into the hobby in my opinion as to really get established with Grand Tournament rules you need a battle ready painted army or you're already down 10 points if your opponent has a painted army. I just want to touch on one thing as I don't think you've reached this level in the hobby and that is... VALUE. - Yes, the cost, learning the rules and everything else before you actually start playing is a lot to invest in, but the key thing here is that I've gotten 1,000s of hours of painting, playing, assembling, discussing etc around this hobby by being a part of it. Understandably, like most things, you need to spend time on it to get good at it, but looking at the depth of involvement you can go to (above's A to D) there is a substantial return on what you pay in my opinion. Painting alone can be a quick exercise or you can spend days or weeks on model/squad making them look amazing and enjoy the process thoroughly. - I do not enjoy video games, but enjoy gaming. D&D and Warhammer have been a part of my life from when I was young. Warhammer 2nd edition was something we played as kids and back then it was still bloody expensive and we had metal minis. There is a particular mindfulness and different level of satisfaction about doing this hobby that you'll never achieve through Video games and it's one of those things that you don't know unless you know kind of thing. It's like someone asking you what playing D&D is like, you just have to tell them "roll up a character and just get involved and you'll see how fun it can be" Anyway, your video got me super inspired to write this, I hope your journey turns out to be an awesome one. I really enjoyed your video and your point of view on the hobby. Keep up the good work, I hope you do more in this space in future. Happy wargaming. :)

Great video! Keep it up man! Love the editing and your script writing is excellent!

In between raising costs in anticipation for inflation and marking up their plastic model kits based on their in-game value, GW largely betrays their own insistence that they are a miniatures company first. Compare and contrast that to Warlord Games, Victrix Miniatures, Team Yankee, and several other similar companies whose model lines are just as likely to be used in scale model dioramas not intended for gameplay (admittedly, much of that is because they have historical miniature ranges and thus can appeal to more than just tabletop gamers - I've even seen some used in museum displays).

This is why I choose Battletech. Sure classic battletech has a lot of book keeping, but the Alpha Strike game mode is quicker and a bit easier to learn. Plus the models are much cheaper.

Getting into this game is so expensive! I got into right before covid and was amazed just how expensive it was! However, I was lucky and was given 4 armies from one of my buddies who had been playing for years. I’d say for new players join a group of local people who play because they’re very passionate about it and want new people to play with and will often help you get started or help you find things on eBay! Great video as well you’ve earned a subscriber:)

“Even in service I am in debt” - Some space marine captain

Congratulations you just kicked the same dead horse that we’ve all been kicking for years. All your points are valid and it is just too bad that games workshop will not listen to its fans.

The reason why Age of Sigmar has frequent and diverse Updates, is because the system failed to create a Posterboy. The Stormcast Eternals SUCK and not only the old guard but a majority of the new players despise them. So GW actually has to put effort in everywhere, instead of milking their one, best selling army.

Brother, I'm glad that KZfaq has graced my feed with your channel. Keep it up!

For someone new to KZfaq you have a knack for combining the calm chilled out voice to listen to while still keeping my adhd mind from wandering off to other things! Good work great video and keep it up!

I first played when i was 9, now i am 38 years old. There are so many issues with the game, but money and rules are for sure the worst 2. GW's allergic reaction to anything digital is what finally killed it for me, I still play but havent gone by their rules in about a year now

People will spend hundreds of dollars if not thousands on 1 single video game. So I don't think its crazy expensive. But your video is quality. Cheers! I got my first ever starter armies and starter paint set for $130. And I have warhammer premium for 5 bucks so I have all the codexs.

You did very good for being a newer channel. Keep it up. If you want this as a job just remeber this is a Career that build up over time. You just gotta keep up at it.

There is an argument to be made that the cost of plastic mini production is expensive, though this is really only true when looking at the design and production of the plastic injection moulds for the models, given that's where the large bulk of the costs lie. Producing the kits after the injection moulds are created isn't really expensive especially given the price of the plastic used being cheap. GW could cut the prices for their kits in half and they still would be making a ton of money. The price of production could potentially get more expensive once nonrenewable plastic goes up in price due to scarcity; this is arguably a moot point seeing as plastics derived by renewable sources will likely take off in the market, due to either costing less or being the only option once nonrenewable plastics are used up. Arguably the primary reasons GW's kits are expensive has to do with branding allowing then to get away with charging more and GW executives wanting to show record profits to shareholders. I say this considering there isn't really any other reason that would be compelling for the people who would be responsible for determining prices. And don't get me started on how it is so much goddamn BS that the price can vary wildly between regions. I perfectly understand shipping will tack on price, but there's no reason that the same kit that costs 36 pounds (or 42 USD) if sold in England costs 60 USD if sold in the United States. I can not be convinced it is perfectly reasonable to have this 18 dollar increase for the same kit, let alone the price gouging that happens in Australia and New Zealand.

The Starter vor 40k skirmish game costs more than entire armies from other games. If you are on a tight budget, by the time you have an army ready there is already a new edition, one unit softbanned and another not even in the book anymore. GW has been compared to the likes of EA, where "recurrent User spending" is the main goal of the company. And no, not just buying new models, but rebuying books, rules and boxes You don't need but there is one (1) new model in there that'll be released seperately a year later maybe If at all.

I think the 3D printer will force GW to rethink there business model in the coming years. The other rules as annoying as they are could be circumvented if it was easier to get people in to the game without buying a small country GDP. Not to mention this will allow people to build army's that GW has never expanded or only mentioned in lore or are fan made. Yeah GWs models may look better (for now) but they sure don't let me build Farseer Lofn to lead a human and Eldar combined forces. I think at first GW will do what it has always done, attempt to crackdown on copyright laws and ban print blueprints but that will limited affects in the long run. Like I can spend 200 dollars on space marines or like 70 dollars on materials and print out armoured space soldiers. The decisions easy.

I remember hearing about comparing the prices of minis to gundam model kits. Yes minis are very nicely detailed but for 60$ you get a 8 inch Gundam that's fully articulated and color accurate without needing to paint or glue anything, and has a number of swappable accessories. I bought a starter set of space marines and while I did enjoy the experience, I'm not buying anything else priced like that

Wow! Seeing that this is only your 4th video I am amazed!!! Being that you’re so new if you’ve still got ways to go im hooked, great channel!

The reason why AoS is so "diverse" in their factions is almost completely artificial. They just took Warhammer Fantasy Battles factions and cut them up into smaller and smaller sub factions. A slayer was just a dwarf unit, now they’re an entire faction with one single defining trait. They’re basically caricatures of previously well fleshed out larger factions. To make a parallel with 40k, it would be like if every single space marine chapter, eldar craftworld, guard regiment and Tau sept were considered factions of their own. It’s artificial bloat for the sake of it.

Age of sigmar is better and more streamlined. In 40K it’s easier to be cheated and thus give new players a bad experience

to be honest, I don't think the costs are as wild as often portrayed. - models: you can buy cheap second hand models online. Also, if you are into painting, you can really pour a loooooooot of time into painting the models (4-10h per model if you're into that). In this view, the price-per-fun-time spent is not that bad. - codex: search for free online pdfs - brushes: you can paint well with cheap synthetic brushes - paint: there is indeed a big entry cost, but once you have the paints, they last a long time. I've been painting for 3 years now and only recently finished my first paint pot. You can also buy cheaper paint brands.

Been in the hobby for 1.5 decades now and you hit every major issue I've had with the hobby. I play T'au (obviously) but when I started it was rare to play someone else who wasn't a space marine. With the addition of the Leagues of Votann I feel like GW is finally starting to expand their roster, but it still has a ways to go. My best advice is to find yourself a regular gaming group of 2-5 friends and to focus on having fun, story driven games rather than playing overly complicated slogs with strangers. Great work with this video, I hope that 40k brings you as much joy as it's brought me!

I don't think it's expensive. Not when you consider there are so many more common and more expensive hobbies out there, like building cars, computers, and music production. This is the main reason: the models that I bought in 2002 are still very playable and competitive in 2023. The computer that I bought in 2002, had to be replaced and upgraded throughout the years and will still need more money from me to keep up with the latest games. Although cars and computers offer increased utility, the investment depreciation overcomes the initial cost in getting into one army in 40k. The 3000pts of eldar that I have are still good to go in a grand tournament. The codex cost is $50 every other year or so, and sometimes another $75 for the rulebook editions. Since 2002, there have been 7 editions. Since 2002, I've gone through 5 high-end comptuers. The cost of those computers were about 2k a pop, so $10,000. The cost of the codex, plus army investment was about $2,700. The codex additions over the years were about $350 and the rulebooks were $525. The rulebooks and codexes are nice for lore, but are completely useless in rule application now. The computers that I bought are nice storage devices and time capsules, but aren't going to keep up with today's graphics. So 10k versus 3.5k over a 21 year period?? This hobby is looking better now. TL;DR warhammer isn't too costly over the long-term, like cars and computers are.

Great content! Wish you grew success

Really good video! Honestly summed up a lot of the long term problems I've had with 40K for a long time. For me personally I think the tipping point, the straw that breaks the camels back, is the Stratagems. Sure knowing what your guys can do is important and if you're like me where you have a couple of friends you play with knowing what their armies can do is good to know and not too taxing to remember, but the intense overreliance in 9th Edition on Stratagems and how massively and drastically they can change how you have to fight and play is just too much, especially when you have to remember all your Strats and what they do at any given time, as well as like 100+ combined strats of your friends armies and what they can do at any given time means you can just get completely decimated turn 1 if you aren't on top of it. I really feel like the biggest revamp they NEED to do with the next generation of the game is simplify the Stratagem system. Give the game like 5-10 Core Stratagems that every army can use, and then maybe three or four army-wide Strats that are exclusive to each faction. Beyond all this, the way the turns are structured just bothers me personally, but thats not something that I think GW will ever change and it's better to look to other game systems for different takes on how a round can be structured, like Battletech: Alpha Strike. I can highly recommend it, and it'd be cool to see a comparison video if you ever got into it. it's much simpler, much lower cost of entry, but really scratches the itch I have for a smooth and fast paced wargame.

For the cost, yeah you are absolutely right. As a Tyranids player, my small Hive Fleet costed me around 255€ in models only. I have to spend around the same sum to get a full 2000 points army excluding transport case, paint and building equipment.

3:52 as a fellow kregi fan noot that hurt and my wallet has gone into hiding. (I mostly just use them in killteam but new book has rules for the killteam box)

ay! The shrek ork in your thumbnail! I made that! :D It warms my heart to see him out in the wild

I started getting into warhammer last year. Picked and bought an army, painted it, then when and played. I played too matches and my brain exploded from the information I had to know , even after months of prep. It saddens me, for these reasons that you’ve stated I have t played in months. Hopefully in the next editon they offer simple rules , even if that way of playing is like optional or something , I think it would make the game a lot more fun for new players like myself.

There are very cheap entry points available, but it's true that the entire game is prohibitively expensive I started out with the hobby this year, my experience has been like this: First off, think of it as a hobby rather than a game. I got into it because I wanted to paint kickass minis, and that's what I'm doing. There are some very quite affordable options for your start. My initial purchase of Warhammer was about ~80 EUR, and that got me the Recruit Edition starter set which has 14 necron models (including a leader) and 6 space marines (also including a leader), and all you need for a few introductory scenarios. My local game store had this for ~35 eur. I also picked up a starter set of paints and tools which comes with a nice brush and 14 assorted pots of paint for like 30 eur, and then from a local art supply store I got a rattle can of black spray paint and a cheap pack of synthetic brushes, and that set me off by 15 eur. I didn't look at it as me getting like 10% of a playable army but rather as me getting like 2 months worth of hobbying, which has so far felt like fairly decent value. Painting is a lot of fun and I'm really enjoying seeing those painted minis on my shelf. Every model can easily be like 2-8 of quality hobby time, and not all video games even offer that kind of value There's this question in miniature painting, "what the hell do you do with it once you're done", and I think the great thing about Warhammer and miniature wargames in general is that you can then go play these elaborate games with them, something you probably couldn't do if you make train sets or miniature cars or planes or dioramas, and that makes owning these minis feel so much cooler

Wait what… this channel comes across way bigger! Good job on the video!

Ok, couple tips 1: the cost becomes much better if you buy a 3d printer 2: For paints, army painter and vallejo are both significantly cheaper for equal or superior products respectively 3: Paint brushes, cheap makeup brushes for drybrushing and cheap craft brushes for painting works fine 4: if you dont get a printer, if you look at the other prices of similar companies with large scale injection molds, they are around half the price on average wargames atlantic, fireforge games, warlord games and perry miniatures are the best 5: you can also use recasters if you need them 6: try skirmish games, there are a lot of rulebooks that go from 0-20& online that you can buy, they are much cheaper and only need a single box of models, a lot of people also find them more fun I would reccomend a follow up video in a couple months offering solutions to a lot of the problems outlined in this video, Howhever this would be massive effort so I understand the arrogance of this suggestion. Still, good, well made video

Here's hoping 10th Edition treats you well, I'm hoping GW comes up with more innovations towards accessibility when it comes to the game and even the lore. After over 20 years being obsessed with this hobby and universe, sometimes it's an exercise in frustration to see how GW handle their IP. Fair play to them for growing at the rate they have and I am supremely happy or cautiously optimistic with what I've seen in 10th edition so far. Nice to have you in the community. :)

I felt that impression, that much of the space marines were identical with paint pallet swaps, which wasn’t helped by the fact that my intro to W40k was Dawn of War where that was literally the case. But even with a smaller list of races/armies, the lore is so rich! Even between the various space marine chapters, there is diversity in style that you will appreciate.

On your point about production costs of the minis: I work at a hobby shop. GW tells us what to sell the minis at and we have to sell it at that price. My employee discount is that I buy it at whatever they sold it to the shop for plus an additional 10%. I picked up something that was normally 160 dollars, and it only cost like 70. Its not the production cost

Well done! Good editing man.

Great video, I agreed with almost everything you said. Especially how the rule bloat is quite overwhelming for my brain

Good vid, good channel, algorithm has blessed you. I've been playing for some years now, and as a chaos player it is my lot in life to get screwed over again and again. The increased cost year after year, sometimes within months of a similar product release, has priced me out, even several armies in. The rapid, seemingly monthly, changing of core rules, the invalidation of anything that was interesting across this newest codex refresh, and the catering exclusively to competitive matched play has killed my drive. I'm happy you found the game and the hobby, and I wish you best of luck, you'll paint some good models, but just know if you feel frustrated, theres always options. Ignore rules you dont want to play with, try older editions if you're inclined, and maybe alt systems like OPR. And then there's always tabletop sim.

Great insights, spot on.

I'd recommend starting with Combat Patrol sized games, 500 points or 25PL. It's the smallest game you can play and it's the best way to learn. There's rules on rules on rules for sure, but learn them in parts and don't pile everything on at once. Master the movement phase then the shooting phase. Once the basics are down, do terrain (but not all the rules, are necessary for a good game). Once you've got that, add in your faction rules. If you can borrow until you're sure you like the game do that, if you want to play with Lego people, or tin cans or whatever to see if you like the game, do that. I think a better option is Kill Team, you need like 10 models, I think the maximum 14 the smallest team is 4 models. The core rules are free and you can buy everything in one box you can split with a friend. The rules read terribly, but it's actually easy to play, watch tutorial videos and it makes sense. In either case, find an experienced play locally who's not a douche and is willing and able to teach you to play. That's generally me at my local club (except I am a douche). As for the hobby side, GW isn't the only game in town. You don't need their paints (although they have good ones) you definately don't need their tools or brushes. Texture paints are a huge con. And no, you can't combine Custodes and Space Marines. Hope you carry on and enjoy your hobby journey, it would be great to see a video series on it.

The main issues with the rules is that so many factions have special rules that are named differently but do the same thing, and that there are simply too many special things. Instead of giving space marines a better armor stat, they have the special rule armor of contempt, which is just an ability that complicates the already simple armor rule

I started playing nearly twenty years ago and I entirely agree with the rules part. When I moved from the teens club to adults game nights I got introduced to chapter approved and extremely intense special rule bullshit I got trashed in every game I played with my straightforwards statline armies. It only got worse over time to the point where I stopped playing altogether. Actually got renewed interest in playing again in something like 4th edition which is probably a lot like Sigmar is today. The great thing is all of my armies still fit right in because I never got any of the wild stuff that showed up later.

So here are a few things. 1st. Price is generally mostly in the relatively fair ammount. It is a bit above fair, but the ammount is roughly a few bucks. The basic of it is that GW tries to keep a standard pricing for stores around the world. Working at a store we have a roughly 20 to 30% mark up. So generally, if something costs $100 at your game store, ideally that store got it at around $70 to $80. Over here we also have to deal with a distributor so that makes it that probably GW is selling stufft at around 50% to them (so $50 for distributor, $70 for store, $100 to general public) the idea of keeping things similarly priced is so that stores don't get tossed out of business thanks to people buying from other places. Having done some research into what it takes to make a figure, generally speaking GW is making about 20 to 30 for every 100 product when selling overseas atleast, i'm thinking to keep prices homogeneous they sell to uk retailers at a higher price, and depending on imports and exports how expensive they sell to other countries. 2nd. Too many space marines, yeah, we all agree, but the thing is, since everyone keeps buying them, GW sees them as their best source of revenue, so they keep adding more. 3rd. Rules wise, yeah, but there's lil you can do about it, making things simpler is indeed possible but doing so removes how unique your army feels to collect and play. For example, the real difference between all those space marine factions is those 6 to 10 special rules for the army that make them distinct, otherwise all space marines have identical profiles, identical wargear options, and identical relics (the hit harder weapon, the ignore invulnerable saves sword etc. Etc.)

wtf 44 subs? bro your video quality is absolutely fire for this subcount. You deserve more my mans 💪

This is why most of my time, effort, and money is spent on Black Library material and used codices. I'm more interested in the worldbuilding and characters than the collecting/wargaming aspect. I'm a Forever GM and my players also love the 40k setting but I usually use a less crunchy, more fiction-forward system along the lines of PbtA. There are a lot of systems in that philosophy excellent for chivalric romance, Piecraftian warfare, urban dystopia, the obvious post-apocalyptic genre, and more. One campaign was based on Masks, the players being vigilantes in an underhive, another was based on The Regiment, the players being guardsmen on a world besieged by Tyranids, a particularly fun one used Free From the Yoke with the players being low nobles in a Knight World abruptly cut off from the Imperium by a Warp storm.

I Feel the same way, me and my friends have worked on a new version of 40k biased off of the bolt action rules. With some 40k flair. The games are intense and fast paced.

Yeah given the script quality this channel will blow up (as long as you stick at it).... New subscriber right here..

The subtle kreig references when referring to price lol

100% agree, they use to do very cheap boxes of 20 standard mono pose Troops and somthing like that would be much appreciated nowadays

Good work. I am new player and I can understood what are you tolking about.

looking forward to the 1k sub club

Oh, man. It took me the entire video to get the joke. I kept thinking "What's up with that salamander in every other shot?". The very last sentence finally got to me "A newt. Now I get it!" 😂

Well my guy, I think you’re about to glow up. Keep up the good work!

Hey there! Was that picture you used at 0:58 the actual game store or near it? because I remember that place before covid shut it down.