Proof of Stake (PoS) Versus Proof of Work (PoW) w/ Jason Lowery (BTC098)
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Preston Pysh interviews MIT Graduate student Jason Lowery, who's a security researcher from the Department of Defense on Proof of Work and Proof of Stake protocols.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:41 - Why are property rights an important starting point for understanding the differences between Proof of Stake (PoS) and Proof of Work (PoW)
00:07:19 - What is Abstract Power versus Physical Power and why are they important for understanding Proof of Stake (PoS) vs. Proof of Work (PoW)
00:22:08 - Why do the rules around property rights keep breaking down throughout time
00:40:07 - Explain the importance of basic computer science and how computer programs work so we can understand the differences in Proof of Stake (PoS) and Proof of Work (PoW)
00:50:21 - A general introduction to Proof of Stake (PoS) vs. Proof of Work (PoW)
01:00:44 - Hal Finney and Adam Back's contributions to developing the first blockchain
01:19:09 - If you were going to exploit a PoS or PoW system how would that work
01:23:33 - Creative destruction and how it applies to protocols
01:33:56 - Jason's thoughts on Jamie Dimon liking everything but PoW
01:40:47 - Vitalik Buterin's comments on PoS not being tethered to physical reality
01:45:05 - How has the faculty at MIT responds to your research
02:03:19 - If you had a message to policy makers, what would it be
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- The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers by Paul Kennedy: amzn.to/3e9GyB1
- The Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph Tainter: amzn.to/3ruaBq3
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@reginaldedgardo3530 11 ай бұрын
The market is very unstable and you can not tell If it's going bearish or bullish. I advise y'all to
@mattalsop2906 11 ай бұрын
Mr Eric leadership has had a profound impact on my trading endeavors. His innovative approach and ability to identify opportunities have been instrumental in my success.
@reginaldedgardo3530 11 ай бұрын
@EricBirger THAT IS HIS USER NAME.. He is Available on TELEGRAMS,,,
@westerntree1 11 ай бұрын
i owe my success to the expert guidance of Eric Birger, whose strategic acumen has led to substantial BTC gains of 8.2. His foresight in navigating the crypto market is unparalleled.
@dm09aaj 11 ай бұрын
As someone who is new to the realm of trading, I have been profoundly impressed by Eric Birger's ability to generate profits in the dynamic world of cryptocurrencies. Under his sagacious tutelage, I achieved remarkable roi, with his strategic cogitation and astute understanding of market trends serving as the catalysts for our triumphs.
@misssophie15 11 ай бұрын
Crypto has taught me valuable lessons about patience and emotional control. Stay strong! 💪😌
@chrishayes8012 Жыл бұрын
Not only are we lucky to have Jason, we need him.
@cmc8553 Жыл бұрын
And Preston 😎
@yvrytry5rc Жыл бұрын
Jason lowery is a modern day hero
@jehannekejup7142 Жыл бұрын
We don't need him, or anyone. But I do appreciate his work.
@RedPillDiaries Жыл бұрын
need implies lack of decentrali2ation / single point of potential failure
@dingfeldersmurfalot4560 Жыл бұрын
I'm glad he's on OUR side.
@graydonforward7358 Жыл бұрын
My God...I thought I was Orange pilled before listening to this. That was absolutely incredible, relating POW to evolution and sapiens development. With this young man advising the upper echolons of Government and defense, I think the future of Bitcoin and POW could be absolutely mind blowing.
@antoinedesjardins6752 Жыл бұрын
I know, right!? It's like re-orange pilling yourself.
@MystiqWisdom Жыл бұрын
He's not going to advise upper echelons of anything, unfortunately. The abstract power hierarchy is completely corrupted. Why would they allow a truth speaker such as Jason?
@OrmondOne Жыл бұрын
Jason’s ability to breakdown complex subjects keeps you engaged the entire time. Request for a quarterly Jason deep dive into various subject matters that match with the shows vision.
@tj78492 Жыл бұрын
He's basically been doing that on Breedloves channel
@tobychenderson Жыл бұрын
Probably the best interview I've listened to in over 5 years.
@kennethmayor3596 Жыл бұрын
Damn right
@somebodyelse5784 Жыл бұрын
I almost never do this, but this is one of those rare times I'll have to listen again, back to back.
@PikaBane94 8 ай бұрын
This kind of stuff being free to watch on the internet is truly amazing.
@Peranine Жыл бұрын
Absolutely stunning conversation.
@kylescott6421 Жыл бұрын
Outstanding indeed. Just right on the money.
@simonseverino Жыл бұрын
Magnificent. Thank you for doing this Jason and Preston!
@EveryDayWalkingWithChrist Жыл бұрын
EPIC! MUST WATCH!!! Thank you Preston and Jason!
@JuiceBox_Miami Жыл бұрын
Thank God for Jason Lowery! The depth of knowledge that flows from this young man’s mind is simply amazing!
@AnonDa Жыл бұрын
Mind fully blown. Without doubt the best articulation of the merits of PoW i have seen
@Fittanbullsson Жыл бұрын
In the past two years I've listened to hundreds and hundreds of podcasts about bitcoin. I have a list of 10 podcasts that I always send to people who want to learn about bitcoin and proof of work. This will now be the 11th. Great great podcasts. Mind blown
@neilmostyn3277 Жыл бұрын
Can you list the Top10 please? Would be really interested to see it. Thanks
@pupfriend Жыл бұрын
what are the other ten?
@atom3850 Жыл бұрын
I’ve compiled a similar list and would love to see yours
@aowsbaker8449 Жыл бұрын
Just when I thought I understood everything about Bitcoin.. this is amazing content.
@Satssetyoufree Жыл бұрын
Jason brings a truly unique perspective to help our understanding of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network is so much more valuable than just a monetary system.
@lookatthetrees7494 Жыл бұрын
2 of my favorite guys to listen to. Thanks Preston and Jason!!
@00JamesMoody00 Жыл бұрын
Cutting edge thinking, absolutely grounded in reality and logic. Fantastic to listen to
@reidjohnson3964 6 ай бұрын
I’ve listened to this 3 times over the last year and it gets better every time.
@backseatstudios6903 5 ай бұрын
I keep coming back to this interview and it keeps blowing my mind 🤯
@ryszardmacko6306 Жыл бұрын
Wow! This, indeed, is one of the best interviews I've watched! Saved for future re-watching. Thank you gents. Cheers!
@mkmstillstackin Жыл бұрын
Fantastic conversation. Thanks Preston and Jason!
@abovemypaygrade491 Жыл бұрын
Great high level convo
@mdubore Жыл бұрын
Good shit Jason, best explanation on computer and software abstraction i have ever heard.
@mc-kz8zn Жыл бұрын
WOW! This. Was. Genius. Mind blown, unbelievable interview! Going to watch this again, so many amazing points. Profound, well thought through, just awesome. Thank you for this work!
@bridgerlogan1923 Жыл бұрын
Proof of work is the best 'spent' energy you could use. PoS is just a fiat model, thats why the WEF is in love with ETH all of a sudden. Can be controlled by large stake.
@robertrichards4930 Жыл бұрын
Eth is crap.
@discodisco3063 10 ай бұрын
@@robertrichards4930 That's why the community is slowly moving to Ethereum Classic
@timefactor3763 Жыл бұрын
lots of wow moments. Thank you guys.
@lenjohnson5343 10 ай бұрын
Thank you, Jason. I have just begun my journey down the rabbit hole. Wow, this interview has opened my eyes.
@ThepoweroftheBitcoinnetwork Жыл бұрын
Need to watch this several times. Mind blowing.
@heydude696969 Жыл бұрын
Always fascinating listening to Jason and Preston discuss PoW vs. PoS.
@larryblock4638 Жыл бұрын
This is the Tip of the Spear of knowledge to be able to understand WHY Bitcoin POW is Superior to all other consensus mechanisms (POS.). I have goosebumps listening to this and can’t believe I get to participate and learn “real time” as the World’s powers structures are at war with each other (currency wars, God King’s, and Protocols.). All I can say is THANK YOU Jason & Preston!You both are improving the depth of my understanding and the quality of my life!🙏❤️
@MothershipVR 4 ай бұрын
This is great. Listening to Jason makes me want to get some more hashpower
@ricp 7 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for this great conversation!!!
@jerricknaylor9686 Жыл бұрын
Jason is king
@ckniffen7111 Жыл бұрын
God King
@DisperseControl Жыл бұрын
This is a brilliant interview and inspires what I want to do professionally. Great work, thank you
@laurentscheercousse3856 10 ай бұрын
Masterpiece podcast to keep in the shelve with what is money show Saylor/Breedlove… 🙏🙏🙏thank you so much gentlemen’s !
@auralenergy9082 Жыл бұрын
Wow! Just wow!
@anzori2002 Жыл бұрын
Mind blowing! Thank you!
@pran10000 Жыл бұрын
Thank you gents!! Excellent stuff.
@anesskattan6259 Жыл бұрын
Amazing chat
@artefacto2114 Жыл бұрын
we need this guy talking with Michael Saylor on a podcast
@aross777 Жыл бұрын
This is one of the most informative and useful discussions I have heard. Thank you to Jason and Preston for putting this out!
@fadibataineh2379 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your effort guys, great video
@azdjedi 9 ай бұрын
Great. Good explanation of pow
@kylehoorn5192 Жыл бұрын
Incredible conversation.
@SpringismySeason Жыл бұрын
Mind blown!🤯
@blockfuture6156 Жыл бұрын
The whole POW analogy to violence and physical power is great and makes complete sense. But we must ask ourselves, why did humanity begin to abstract power in different ways? For progress and scale. If POW is truly the unbreakable and one true system to rule all, then by the analogy we would still be living in a world of neanderthals who are essentially driven by physical power. The analogy is great because it's true, neanderthals could not scale into groups larger than 20, just like Bitcoin can't be the underlying framework for scalable, complex, systems. Homo sapiens arrived with the ability to make abstractions of power, which in history proved the long term winner - a natural evolution into a "POS" society. "Theres no limit to how many Watts someone can summon to defend POW". Watts cost money. Stake costs money. Through inference you can say: Theres no limit to how much stake can be summoned to defend POS. In fact, staking is far more streamlined than having to deploy physcal servers to mine, so defence can be summoned quicker in POS. As far as blockchain POW vs POS goes, we need both
@PrimordialEconomics Жыл бұрын
I hope you have taken the time to read the thesis now that it's published
@andyt2363 Жыл бұрын
Brilliant discussion, very philosophical and interesting comparisons
@jksmithiii Жыл бұрын
Great stuff with Jason Lowery. Thanks Preston Pysh. We need to redefine the whole Bitcoin maxi narrative, because it's too easy to pick at. This is a PoS vs PoW issue, and how any property, no matter what it is, must be protected. Imagine if cryptographic algorithms in general could be challenged by PoS instead of PoW.
@Hugo-ew2ko Жыл бұрын
Jason is incredibly intelligent & knowledgeable. Great to see how interested he is in these subjects
@Dante3X Жыл бұрын
Power projection is fueled by the Power of knowledge 💪🏾🔥
@michaelbhatti6846 Жыл бұрын
Most interesting video I’ve ever seen on pow vs pos. Amazing!!
@gianboontiong Жыл бұрын
Excellent discussion. Many thanks..
@JNorth87 11 ай бұрын
Is Entropy the decentralization mechanism of energy?
@End_The_Fed Жыл бұрын
Incredible - thank you, Jason!
@sarros13 Жыл бұрын
Thank u for providing this amazing interview!!!
@trishhaines7151 Жыл бұрын
Oh, Jason! I far from understand all you say, but from day one when you transitioned from LinkedIn to Twitter, I have greatly appreciated your insights. CONGRATULATIONS on being invited to advise the WH Exec. Ofc. on strategic security benefits of Bitcoin. I have confidence you'll give it your best. EXCELLENT pod here with Preston! 🧡🧡
@ambrose391 Жыл бұрын
Loved this you Blokes, well done!
@LiborTinka Жыл бұрын
As a former software engineer I was looking into Algorand's PPOS (Pure Proof of Stake) to see whether I am (as a Bitcoin user) really not missing something important... it seems the whole network actually relies on some 100 so called Relay Nodes, which need to be servers handling many connections, with public address AND publicly listed. So this again boils down to the problem of authority taking over the protocol.
@TheBitcoinRevolution Жыл бұрын
The Keys to the Kingdom. Pow!
@pyxis55 Жыл бұрын
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯The deeper I go, the more steadfast I get. Profound stuff, Preston.
@copenhagen995 Жыл бұрын
Epic
@chucksirois1142 Жыл бұрын
thank you guys for the wonderful intellectual presentation and the clarity of your message. you and others are my god kings😁
@kieranmoriarty8366 Жыл бұрын
Need more of this
@shareurtube Жыл бұрын
Without a doubt this is the most impressive video about cyber currency and points brought up by Jason Lowery. After watching your video Preston I cannot say enough good things about it. The one profound statement that hit the hardest was what Jason said about letting Bankers be in charge of bitcoin. For God's sake they should not be in charge of protecting our Cyber Dome and only allow those people who can keep up with what Jason is trying to convey to America. Thanks again Preston for this was a very important video.
@pdizzle8568 Жыл бұрын
Finally more Jason P Lowery content!
@jshagenow 9 ай бұрын
My question is this…what happens when you time-lock bitcoin future price/value appreciation to be split by the “communicating parties” to a future date? Not for every transaction but I certainly the major ones (whatever “major” means to the consumer)…specifically rent/mortgages. It seems like this would turn bitcoin into a method that literally sucks the “value/money” right out of real estate??? Probably all major assets/commodities…companies that offer it will flourish and customers (of all markets) will begin to demand it? Or am I wrong?
@jaareshiahq2106 Жыл бұрын
Elite interview, Jason does a great job of explaining the basis of human society and how exponentially impactful bitcoin is and will be
@Angus1507 Жыл бұрын
Mind opening. Thanks gents.
@davef5916 Жыл бұрын
GOD DAMN
@jonatanduelund9123 Жыл бұрын
Thank you 🙏 This is just the information i was looking for 👍 Watching the Michael Saylor episode next.
@QuadTap Жыл бұрын
what Preston says at 1:53:00 is profound
@ckniffen7111 Жыл бұрын
Preston is good cuz he listens.
@coinborg8305 Жыл бұрын
Lol all the people who shit on Jason on Twitter for being a spook or something are so dumb. Listen to what he says. What he’s saying is factual and provable. I don’t see any mental gymnastics going on here. It’s all based on first principles and historical references. Bravo!
@PrimordialEconomics Жыл бұрын
If anything his thesis flies in the face of the high ranking members of our system who are corrupt and regularly choose to exploit and abuse their control authority over the money printer.
@LusoCMD Жыл бұрын
So good!!
@shinforex Жыл бұрын
the best podcast breakdown philosophic ideas
@cryptofan6937 Жыл бұрын
How do we get Jason to speak to the US congress?
@cryptofan6937 Жыл бұрын
Should we start contacting senator Lummis?
@Steve.191 Жыл бұрын
Sweet. Confirmation is wonderful 👍
@AlexBeau Жыл бұрын
This is blowing my mind
@bhriscannan2080 Жыл бұрын
What do you think of a hybrid layer 1, primarily POW with stretch capabilities on POS? That should help address the blockchain tri-lemma
@hametly254 Жыл бұрын
Dude is so smart and a joy to listen to. Can’t believe this shit is free!! OneLove…
@copenhagen995 Жыл бұрын
Beauty
@abkg84 6 ай бұрын
Wish this was in my curriculum growing up together with all the stories being told in religion class., like an interesting story nature class, but a simpler word for it, not using the word bitcoin.
@mlscaramouche Жыл бұрын
Mind continuously expanded. Holy sh*t.
@ThePhilosophyDoctor Жыл бұрын
Fantastic! A lesson in Ontology! Proof of Stake - a sign with a drawing of a guard dog. Proof of Work - a real snarling dog guarding your house. It's like saying the sign can do the same thing as the real dog. The drawing of the dog is an abstraction from the real thing. The communication is meant to make you believe there is a real dog there. And it is using the fact of the real thing (guard dogs) already existing to deceive you.
@wayfinderMatt Жыл бұрын
01:23:34 Regarding Nations printing fiat to gain more stake. couldnt they print fiat to build more solar farms too and get more pow? thx
@farkasgr Жыл бұрын
with this you just increase the demand for solar farms which increases the price. So at the end you have to buy solar farms for infinite price.
@CSanderson Жыл бұрын
When I listen to Jason, Preston, Saylor, Saif, Breedlove… I realize my brain is a 4 cylinder rustbucket while these guys are rolling a v12 sedan! 🤯
@Mike-lz2ef 7 ай бұрын
wow..I want to send this out to everybody I know...but they just won't get it...I barely get it
@abovemypaygrade491 Жыл бұрын
I’m a huge fan of bitcoin. Buttt what is your take on feasibility of blockchain tokens issued by third parties backed by gold? Many people argue that it requires third party trust and bitcoin does not. I agree, but insurance requires third party trust aswell and everyone has car insurance.
@BugInJim Жыл бұрын
Why does everyone have car insurance?
@abovemypaygrade491 Жыл бұрын
@@BugInJim good point
@OPIXdotWORLD Жыл бұрын
@@BugInJim because we have a crooked system run by crooks
@OPIXdotWORLD Жыл бұрын
third party trust ?...say no more... who can u trust to really verify gold that is not in your own hands...?
@abovemypaygrade491 Жыл бұрын
@@OPIXdotWORLDtrue
@beast7815 Жыл бұрын
Jason the GOAT fucking love this guy ! Did he write a book ?
@jelio123456 Жыл бұрын
Great!
@antoinedesjardins6752 Жыл бұрын
hfs, well done
@calebhoward4253 Жыл бұрын
This was mind blowing. Excellent conversation.
@jacobhower1291 Жыл бұрын
The domestication of men in America is intentional. J. Peterson speaks to this as well. Great insight Jason.
@PrimordialEconomics Жыл бұрын
Humans self-domesticated over thousands of years.
@robleduc2410 Жыл бұрын
Time stamp for reference 1:24:36. Governments could also simple print fiat to purchase mining equipment to capture control of a proof of work system. Kinda easy actually. How is this any less cunerable than proof of stake? Actually with a organically grown proof of stake network, so much of the supply is out of circulation. This actually stands to function better than proof of work in your analogy if the impacts of money printing.
@TheIaTaI Жыл бұрын
The point of bringing up this analogy is to highlight unbounded vs bounded systems. In PoS, it would be indefinite for an entity to capture 60% of circulating supply as there is a cap on circulating coins. While in PoW capturing 60% would cause honest miners to increase there hash rate as there is no cap on energy abundance.
@robleduc2410 Жыл бұрын
@@TheIaTaI Thanks for the comment, but just not getting it. But back to the question, couldn't " a bad actor" print a bunch of fiat and purchase miners to steal a pow system? That is if they captured 51% of the hash power?
@TheIaTaI Жыл бұрын
@@robleduc2410 In both PoW and PoS a "bad actor" can technically print money and attempt a chain attack - albeit at the expense of said money debasing (a heavily defended chain would require more printed money in order to have a successful attack, which would lead to more currency debasement). As an analogy, imagine an attacker discovering two honeypot chains and both are in the best interest of the "bad actor" to attack: One is heavily guarded by real world limitations (Power/Watts) and the other is guarded by an abstract version of power. Regarding my previous comment. In case of an attack, it is in the best interest of honest actors to defend their chains. PoW is defended by honest actors plugging in more miners to increase their % of hash rate (hash wars), there is no upper bound to how much energy can be plugged in. In the case of PoS there is an upper bound, which is the total supply of coins that are circulating, once a bad actor acquires a majority stake, it is over
@robleduc2410 Жыл бұрын
@@TheIaTaI That makes sense. So if the majority of coins in a POS chain are staked and supporting the networki a bad actor would not be able to achieve majoirity stake. Which chains with thousand of nodes and a large distribution is so important
@philippelelong2101 Жыл бұрын
@@TheIaTaI the state attacker could also just seize mining operations for free. Yes, pow is a quasi unbounded resource, but also jot really. You need the energy and the hardware. So you might be able to regain power at some point, but it might be too late then.
@mountainbeachman Жыл бұрын
@ 1:35:50 -ish LOVE Jay's smile 😃!!
@hyperbitcoinizationpod Жыл бұрын
I would also say that one doesn't exploit cats. Cats exploit us.
@ryszardmacko6306 Жыл бұрын
I just re-watched this vid and, oh boy, I've noticed so many new things I 'missed' the previous time. I will watch it again in a few months. Everybody that thinks POS is the "right" way should follow Jason's work and really and truthfully apply their intellect to Jason's arguments. And if they're honest, they will convert to POW.
@rp1894 Жыл бұрын
Jason smart. Verrrrrry
@hyperbitcoinizationpod Жыл бұрын
Wattage is not enough explanatory. It's also about where and how that power is delivered. A wolf with less wattage could overpower a wolf with more wattage, if it's more cunning and smarter about its power allocation/delivery.
@Ryan-xq3kl Жыл бұрын
true, the way in which difficulty is found is the unique and useful part of the equation
@al3xander888 Жыл бұрын
Still struggling to see the clarity in some of these arguments, some amount of watts go in to the stake system as well via conversion of economic activity into fiat into eth? Any super realistic computer game rendering demands a lot of physical power in the form of watts
@Onesien Жыл бұрын
I would add to the computer science abstraction thread that all these abstractions are our way to understand/interact with/manipulate all the energy that pervades the entire universe
Preston Pysh
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aantonop
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