ProtonMail logs IP's? Well thankfully I'm protected by ProtonVP- oh.

Man this is the issue with privacy. Cant have shit on the internet. Nothing is simple. You genuinely have to isolate every single account and aspect of your digital existence like a schizoid. Thanks for that lesson Kenny.

four eyed cat-man is telling the truth nobody wants to hear

he's really dropping b-15 truth bombs.

Imagine a government being so afraid of protesting youths that they order a foreign police force and company to give them intel. Firstly, WTF?! Secondly, if they are so anxious, it seems like we are on the right path.

Well...this is awkward.

I and protonmail have a lot in common. (For the grammar)

Well, well, well.

Made in Switzerland and neutrality and all that is absolute BS. -A swiss

the difference between conspiracy and reality is once again a few months.

and thats why i stick with this channel, even after getting laughed out of the protonmail subreddit he still didn't stop trying to educate people. i wonder what'll happen if he goes back to that subreddit to post this video.

I use the free version of Proton mail simply because it is not Google, Yahoo, or Microsoft. Proton Mail is not nor ever will be "safe". As a matter of fact, there is not a single email service in existence that is "safe". Never has been, never will be. Same thing for VPNs. If your adversary is the government, using Tor is not going to help either, if they really want you.

Me: Switches to protonmail because MO recommended it once MO: Makes a video that Protonmail is spooky

The irony of them having "Swiss privacy" on the website... 😂👌 When I first read this story I didn't even though it was Gretas skipping school...

he's like simpson of tech world now

As a network engineer and email security subject matter expert I have not once believed any of these bold claims of “no logging” and “we care about your privacy” its the trendy marketing trope that is an outright lie.

In all seriousness, email as a standard is very aged and there's no point in making it secure. We should move on to newer but secure communication platforms

What I've learned over the years is that whenever there's a hyped up "privacy tool", it's either a straight up honeypot or just a huge glow-in-the-dark alphabet boi magnet, so you're almost always better off using some relatively obscure tech with a small and hush following. This principle has not let me down once to this day.

Protonmail is technically correct on what they did and how they advertise themselves to be, like "we don't log IP address by default" that sort of thing. But when the lives of lot of users depend on the service they could have done better clarifying things. Just say it on the front page "we will log user data if we are ordered by our court" its not hard.

What's your opinion on Lavabit? Those mfs literally shut down their entire network to protect Edward Snowden

When I heard about this news, I immediately thought about the video you made lol

Remember, when cops ask companies for information they don't talk about suspected crimes. They just call you a person of interest and lean on the organization until it caves.

5:52 that's partially true. Yes, IP addresses are fundamental for the Internet Protocol to work. However, IP logging is a different thing, it means storing an IP address along with a timestamp in a DB. Once the server is done processing a request, it can throw out the address from its main memory (main memory is RAM, *not HDD,* any data deleted from RAM is permanently gone). IP logging requires data persistence, which in turn requires SSDs or HDDs for long-term preservation of data (even after deletion, because the sectors are just marked as "free space" that will be overwritten in the future). TLDR: there is no need for logging IP addresses in storage drives, but "seeing" the IPA and holding it in main memory (temporarily) is necessary

If you really want secrecy: 0. Tell no one at all, generate no paper trail, loose lips..... 1. Whisper it in their ear with cover noise in the background. The information is never spoken around or touches a phone or computer of any kind. 2. Use a written note, possibly coded by hand. The data should never be exposed to a computer or phone. 3. You both use air gaped computers and use an encrypted drive to move the data. The above is very secure, and only option 0 is actually secure. Its too late for me, the advertisers know my deepest desire to buy merchandise at low low prices.....

I've seen the criticisms you made about Protonmail a little before your previous video was uploaded, and at the time the Protonmail supporters just dismissed it as fake news. But fake news nowadays simply means whatever that doesn't conform to the narrative the authorities want, so the suspicion lingered. But your video made it very clear why those criticisms are valid, and it convinced me that Protonmail (and email in general) can't be trusted. The only reason I still didn't switch though, was because there aren't really any better email alternatives afaik, outside of hosting your own email server (which I have neither the space nor money to do). But this case is just really disappointing. Trying to cover it up is a massive red flag. I'm gonna try and look for an alternative.

It's impossible to escape from governments, it's very difficult to escape from big private corporations. The only ones that you can fight against are little groups and individuals if they don't have critical breach at their disposition

Welp, I'm glad that I held off on signing up for Proton Mail, thank you for the information from the prior video.

Unless you can host both ends of an internet service yourself, it will never be private. Any time a third party is involved, including the person you may be trying to contact, assume that it's possible for someone to see what you're doing. There's no such thing as "Private and Secure" email or messaging or cloud storage or anything else. If you really need something to be private, don't do it on the internet.

secure email is a silly thing to begin with

I'm really sad to hear this as a Swiss guy

For such a minor crime, wow! Thanks for spreading good information, I'm so glad I found your channel man. keep up the great work

Lavabit avoided complying with subpoena by shutting down their whole company.

I think the problem is the way they sell themselves, claiming "anonymous email account". They should make clear since day one that obviously they need the follow Swiss law, including logging IP addresses if requested. Still, I don't see better usable alternative for the average user out there.

There is NO such thing as a private email service anymore. Really the only option I think would be to setup your own server to send and receive mail, but that can become quite the headache as well.

Wow. Thanks Sir. Almost signed up for them before I saw this! I’m learning so much from you! Thanks so much

when reddit mods delete links to your video, that's how you know you're doing something right. lol

Thank you for dealing with the reddit bs in such a good manner x) Watching your videos since a year and loved all of them! Keep it up :)

Guess I will send my mails via a messenger pigeon from now on.

I will never get tired of saying you have the best thumbnails in the game

Wow. Refreshing to see another KZfaqr besides myself with an actual hot take. Great video man.

In terms of security, the I.P. logging is actually beneficial as you're able to see the last successful/failed attempts to enter your account and which I.P. address those attempts came from. You can't have this feature without I.P. logging to an extent.

Great video Outlaw! Thank you. And yeah, most of us don't think you're "blowing smoke" with your past opinions and research. It's awesome you've brought this out into the light. Props!

Thanks for keeping to report this, you are very right and I hope more sceptics that are still dreaming of proton protecting their backs selflessly with super-powers. Listen to this message!

I know I probably don’t see perfectly eye to eye politically with MO, but I always keep an eye on the channel for the OpSec explainers and whatnot. Good ish

My only concern in choosing an email service is so that Big Tech can't use my (very non-illegal subject matter) emails to sell ads and advance their political influence. I don't care if the feds have access to be honest. Doesn't bother me yet. So if ProtonMail continues to not monetize the email content, I'm good with them.

Damn, perhaps the best way is to just DIY

It's fun to come back to this channel every 4 months. It's like listening to my "crazy" uncle

Email server (or any network/non-network) technology can work WITHOUT logging. Logging is there for analysis what has happened at certain period of time with the service/application, for developers to work of bug fixes. Logging is storing application activity in file. Once more, logging is not necessary for the application/service to run correctly.

I knew it! I believed it as soon as I watched your last video on them

In short: Always stay fresh, 'cause the feds are watching.

I've been waiting for tihs video from you for a while

It does say in the PMail terms and conditions that they will log and trace you (and supply) if they get a Court Order or Warrant.

This was not surprising from Protonmail, since since the BÜPF law no data can be kept properly secure in Switzerland.

The lesson to be learnt is if you want to hide things on the internet you need to understand what you are using. Though i think it's more to do with where they would be protesting than the fact they activist was skipping school.

it was too good for being real, always had my doubts. thanks for sharing this info, as non reddit user i would never knew this.

God I love you Kenny, keep up the good stuff

What I'd have expected from ProtonMail is to go to court and see, if that request was legit at all. That's the minimum, what they owe their customers.

Mental Outlaw, every time I watch a new video of yours, I think. Damn, he knows about that, too? Throwing out red pills left and right without even blinking. Fucking based, my man.

Wow, happy I stumbled upon this.

0:55 four-eyed cat man lmao! so proud of myself for having came up with that name now. 😎

as a swiss person, thats really dissapointing to hear.

While I appreciate what you're saying here and am onboard with the points being made "knowing" and "logging" or fundamentally different things. Any packet transmitted over TCP/IP requires the IP address to be known. Even at the level of a network switch, it has to know. But my unmanaged network switch cannot be queried later for IP addresses that were once involved in the transmission of a packet that was once relayed 15 years ago, because it doesn't write that information to a log file anywhere. (And yes, I'm using this example on purpose because the network switch does keep track [which is different than logging and that's my entire point] of which IP addresses exist on each port, it maintains that information only for the purpose of specifying which physical ports to transmit the data through.) It is one thing to say that X email provider DOES log the addresses. But it's another thing to say that it is impossible for them not to. The technical transaction of data that occurs when an email is sent requires that the IP addresses are known, but that doesn't mean that they are necessarily written to a log that can later be queried and retrieved. Again, I'm not defending Proton here, I'm just saying that it's false information to say that email MUST NECESSARILY LOG every IP address. If I'm delivering packages for Amazon it is necessary that I KNOW the delivery address. But you are describing this in such a way that says if the Swiss authorities pulled over an Amazon Driver and asked them for a list of every address that they have taken a package to in the last year that it is a technical impossibility for that driver to say "I didn't log those addresses and therefor cannot provide them to you." Can they log it? Yes Is it possible to log it? Yes Is it ever impossible to log it? No Is it ever possible to not log it? YES (This last one is what I feel you are greatly misrepresenting in the video)

Your channel is goated so glad I found it

Great. I've used them for ages but decided not to buy in until I did more research on them. Good thing I decided to do that.

I am so glad I found your channel several months ago, currently a windows normie who is slowly moving to Linux.

The battle for secure private messaging continues...

I was just waiting for it really.

I think the most email can be secure is remaining in the provider's domain. Gmail to Gmail, Protonmail to Protonmail... Once outside the domain no one can guarantee anything. Companies make claims that consumers want to hear.

The hard problem with hiding yourself from people spying you is that they have the advantage all the time.

I only use proton mail for like 3 different websites that I rarely use so I might switch to another email service but since I don’t use it hardly even I don’t think it’s worth changing there email Also I don’t expect any email service to be private I just use multiple emails to containerize accounts

thanks a lot, i was going to switch to proton but your concerns made me rethink it, and with this i now know im not gonna. Thank you im happy i subscribed to you 4 eye cat man

I was waiting for this bitter-sweet told you so.

No logging to me means that you don't keep logs, i.e. that you see and forget. Of course you have to see the IP address, but you don't need to save it for an extended period of time, in many cases.

Again: Don't discuss illegal unless it's in person. Granted preferably don't DO the illegal thing, but i this instance it's a bit of civil disobedience to generate talk over an issue which I can get behind, but still. Either ProtonMail is wanting its cake in courting 'security conscience' people who don't trust google (to be fair lots of reasons to not trust a company that views you as a commodity to sell,) while also handing information over with minimal resistance. Or they're a straight up a honeypot.

Thank you good sir!

The way Swiss Banks and Virgin Island Banks operate is important context to know why this happened. Your account is subpoenaed by a number or identifier over them simply requesting info in relation to your name requiring the authorities to provide such info. If a Swiss or Virgin Island account is found on records linked to a crime both banks would turn over records on specific transactions. In this circumstance the same is likely true. The email address would only require an excerpt showing the "unlawful" organizing activities to be allowed access.

I absolutely agree, but the question then becomes: is there any email service that's worth it as an alternative? This entire event wasn't even the true red flag, it's the fact that the CEO of the company outright lied multiple times, right down to policy and implementation. While it's better than the free regulars, it's only marginally so. Anyone have any ideas?

Many will still choose to use its to avoid dealing with apple and google. I had my apple email involuntary shut off after J6 happened. They cited emails regarding volunteer work with Trump's re-election campaign. I literally had held signs on a street corner three months prior, but that was enough to Yeet me.

My dealer homie recommended this I had a gut feeling so I stayed away. Glad I followed my gut

When I heard the news earlier i immediately thought of mental outlaw

Wait, is truancy a crime in France?

Rip HoneypotMail

I switched to Tutanota after your first video on protonmail

Woah, you're on some "That's So Raven" stuff.

What cracks me up is the masses that use protonmail who are about security and privacy didn't seem to think twice about how obvious a form of honeypot it is because they were blinded by the Swiss cheese selling point ...which btw, has lots of holes. 😂😂

Dude, it's literally in their ToS that they report these things to the Swiss government when subpoena'd for it. They don't automatically report things, only when the Swiss authorities ask them to but they're cucked out because Swiss laws make it so that they have to relinquish certain data to (specifically) the Swiss government. This means that alphabet boys can just subpoena the Swiss government and if the Swiss government wants to cooperate then of course they'll subpoena Protonmail

More Cyber crime news pls. I love these.

As a person from switzerland, i can confirm that i knew this was going to happen sooner or later.

Need a neutron mail for a nuetral mail logging ip address

What better alternatives to Protonmail?

You can see them without logging it. They were compelled to log them by a court order. They didn't log it before.

I always thought "no logs" meant that they don't store IPs persistently and when/if they dump server logs to disk they redact the IPs.

Saw this a mile away. Still waiting for something similar with Signal. It's coming.

I’m curious, would you recommend current ProtonMail users switch to a different service or keep using ProtonMail, as it doesn’t seem like there are any better alternatives? If you’d recommend they switch, to what?

Subbed. This cat speaks the truth

I love when 4 eyed cat man get spicy!

I don’t really see how logging someones IP Address is required for an email service to function, could you explain what I’m missing? The only time you need someones IP address would be while communicating, and nothing should require you to log that.

I would like to know what some good options are for email. All I ask is a simple layout, fast load times and not selling my data. If protonmail offers that, then fine. But all the lying makes me wonder "for how long". So I ask for other email providers, since clearly there is no way to stay private with email.

ProtonMail is good for signing up for random things that require a "real" email and block temporary email services, since Gmail now requires a phone number to create an account and they block almost every temporary SMS service (unless you pay for it, maybe).

Appreciate it 👍