QFTB #6: Some welding jobs are worth passing on

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Making mistakes with Greg

Ай бұрын

In this questions from the tool box episode we talk about passing on jobs and being in over your head.

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@SlapperGlutesTwice Ай бұрын

this is the type of channel i almost made one day because its just so raw and real and i couldnt find anything like it - love the format and the content

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words 😀. I am on a mission to help people out to believe in themselves and gain skills. Not to mention realize how much they are capable of. I can’t wait to share a bunch of real life fails I have had so people can learn and have a laugh😀.

@michaelwhiting878 Ай бұрын

Sometimes you have to say no to a job, not because of a lack of tools, knowledge or skills, but because the person requesting the work has unreasonable expectations, but because they don’t understand the work and therefore they pose questions like “I don’t understand why you can’t just stick back together… etc). Worst of all are people who blame you for something you didn’t even touch. Example: one day my landlord lady approached me with car troubles. I diagnosed she needed new spark plugs and offered to change them. It was an older Chevy with a V-8. It took me about an hour, and it was an easy job. A few weeks later her front disc brakes started squealing, she said she was told she needed new brakes and her rotors were warped. She blamed me, and said I had to pay for the repairs. I tried to explain it to her, but she just became very angry and demanded I pay for it. I refused and she became very hostile towards me and my wife. Needless to say, I found a new place to rent. I learned a very valuable life lesson that day to be careful who you do work or favors for.

@jhitt79 Ай бұрын

Years ago I was working for a company that did low voltage systems such as fire alarms, access control systems, voice, data, etc. one day I was on a job where we were installing cameras and access control equipment in a school. I was running wires above the ceiling in a classroom during lunchtime and the teacher was eating her lunch at her desk watching a show on one of those tvs on a roll cart. All the sudden, her screen went to “snow” on the screen (I’m dating myself and the timeframe.) She instantly got pissed and started basically yelling at me. “What did you do!?!” And “It was working fine before you started screwing around up there!” Are some of the things I remember her saying. I tried to tell her that I didn’t cause the issue but she was really pissed and couldn’t hear or understand anything I was trying to explain to her. I actually thought maybe I made a coax connection come loose or something so I told her I’d take a look. I get down and look at the roll cart and noticed it was a tv and vcr plugged into the electrical outlet but no cable feed or anything like that. I also noticed that the vcr was still playing. I asked “are you watching a video tape?” “Yeah so!” She barked. Turns out she was watching a show she recorded the night before and the vcr had stopped recording before the show ended. I explained that to her and she just rolled her eyes at me. No apology.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Those situations are the worst. The hardest part is sometimes you can’t tell the person is someone who is going to do that. By all means if you know who you’re dealing with you turn it down, but if you’re involved when you find out you find a way to end it fast lol. I always wonder what happens to people like that, they must end up fighting with a lot of people.

@melgross Ай бұрын

Excellent advice Greg. It’s the difference between a production welder and someone who does varying work.

@signalmaintainer Ай бұрын

I'm just a hobby welder, but this makes a lot of sense. Pass on what you don't feel comfortable with, and move on. You have opened my eyes to "liability" welding, and it scares the crap out of me. It would have to be a very simple job for me to ever consider taking pay for for a job. Even fixing something for free for a buddy is problematic if it fails in a bad circumstance. We are a litigious society, sad to say...

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

I will definitely cover more about liability and the price of failures in future videos. I actually have some pretty wild stories of some repairs I did (think cracked tow truck booms) and some oddball failures that could be a real eye opener lol. Part of doing repairs on stuff with liability is knowing how good of a repair needs to be made and knowing you can meet that quality. Knowing if you can meet the quality comes down to testing your work and understanding the results.

@rakentrail Ай бұрын

Greg, you'll like this one. I moved south to NC and got involved welding for the offroad guys. Had a guy show up at the shop. Bib overalls, no shirt, no shoes, no teeth & 400+lbs. He asked if I can tig stainless to copper? About 7 feet of 8 inch diameter copper tube and a 1/2 inch thick 304 stainless flange. I had a couple pounds of 90-10 cuni left over from a few years back so I welded it right up for him and charged him very well! He paid and tipped me an extra hundo! I wonder what he was making???? LOL!

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Haha that must have been a pipe for a moonshine still lol. It pays to have oddball fillers around, you just never know lol.

@The4Crawler Ай бұрын

Great video. I had a neighbor come by with a used Roadmaster tow bar for some other vehicle than what he had. He wanted to know if I could cut it apart and modify it to fit his Jeep so he could flat tow it behind his RV. I did some looking around and found the bar seemed to be made of stainless steel and I was hesitant to touch it for liability reasons. I also found that the mfg. had a wide assortment of adapters to fit various mounts and from the pictures I found, there was one of those that would probably just bolt up to that bar. There was a nearby shop for that brand tow bar and I think all he needed to do was stop by there and show them what he had and they could look up those parts in their catalog. Plus they could do the install along with adding the proper safety chain attachment points, etc. That was a year ago and that tow bar hasn't been installed.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Yep, sounds to be like you made a good decision. Stainless steel isn’t super hard to work with but if you’re not confident it’s not worth it. Not to mention what it was going to be used for. The piece of mind and ability to sleep at night is 100% worth a pass on that job lol.

@The4Crawler Ай бұрын

@@makingmistakeswithgreg This same guy also wanted me to build him a custom trailer to haul his motorcycle with. Since that was something I had no experience with, I would have had to spend so much time researching designs, sourcing specialty parts and learning all the regulations. There's a local company in town that makes all sorts of custom trailers (including motorcycle haulers), so I pointed the guy there. I don't think he ever bought one of those trailers either.

@mkearn724 Ай бұрын

A very informative video Greg. You touched on a lot of of valuable points. It’s one thing to get in over your head on your own dime, but doin it on someone else’s pocket is unacceptable. I could never entertain charging someone for something that I’m not confident and capable of doing. Without the proper equipment and or skill set I’d just be setting myself up to smear my name. I’d kind of intrigued about your welding tests. You are spot on with growing from challenging welds. I just had a few nasty overhead welds that I had to do yesterday. I was kneeling down in an angelwing ( a flimsy aluminum 3’ x 3’ or so platform with handrails around it), it was hanging off of the side of building about 90’ above the street. The joint had a 1/4” gap and I was learning through the handrail completely stretched out and using my opposite hand. It was definitely a struggle. What should have been 3 pass welds turned into 5 pass fillets bc of the gaps. Keep the great content rollin sir.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Tough jobs like that are what take the most skill. To be able to make a repair way out of position, with gaps, is infinitely harder than a flat position weld. That was the biggest eye opening experience I had going from practice to the real world. Practice is “best case scenario” and that is rarely found in the real world lol.

@Cptnbond Ай бұрын

Hi Greg. Your skill test series idea is fantastic, and I look forward to challenging myself. Thanks for all your effort in putting together all the quality content. Cheers.

@Mosa-166 Ай бұрын

The way you present your work reminds me with the American legend announcer and narrator - Peter Thomas.

@billsmith5166 Ай бұрын

I was a homebuilder and my wife's friend of a good friend had a multi million dollar house on a bluff overlooking the Mississippi river. The original house was built in 1860 (yup, 1860), one of the oldest in the entire city. Over the years the house had been added to with walls removed and walls placed in areas that looked like they were supporting something but weren't. They wanted to blow out a wall to make the main room huge and they wanted me to do it. I hadn't done any home improvement projects in years and NEVER anything like that. Ugh. I told them that I just couldn't because I didn't know what was hidden. I know they didn't understand, weren't happy, and neither was my wife. It's really hard to say no, but it wasn't going to end well. I never heard what they did..

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

I don’t blame you one bit. I did remodeling for 25+ years and the amount of sketchy repairs, additions, and unknowns that a house from the 1920s has is a lot. The 1860s is just 80 more years of people doing stuff they shouldn’t lol. Who knows what might have been found in that situation.

@jarltroyreviews Ай бұрын

Aluminum is a complicated material on a good day

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

It definitely is. Every thing about that job would make a proper repair that would last extremely difficult. I have done a ton of aluminum repair jobs, and many aren’t too big of an issue. To me on that job it was the vibrator that would be the issue, I know one flaw in a weld is guaranteed failure. Not to mention the issue with the brittleness in the heat affected zone that would likely crack even if the weld held.

@user-pq6gt5mr1p Ай бұрын

As a union- boilermaker- welder that trailer is even beyond allot of welding/fab shop’s capabilities. It would need to be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned before any welding could be done- and as you said really needs to be re- engineered because anything you do will most likely fail with any kind of high stress areas. Every welder out there has had that one job that they barely finished- I don’t care who you are. I’ve done repairs on boilers that should have been mirrored etc.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Yep exactly. To make a repair on that worthy of putting your name on would be a lot of work, and the long term probably far from successful. Part of learning the ropes is taking on a few of those jobs so you know what to avoid in the future lol. Those jobs give me the shivers thinking about them lol.

@googlegok9637 Ай бұрын

a Q for the box- How would you weld a light truck frame together , in case of an either shorted or extension of the frame rail/tube ? A straight vertical cut or a Z and why? Also I guess you will meet more and more so-call "high strength" steel frames.

@Daniel-uf1xx Ай бұрын

I’m down to take that welding quiz

@veejaybomjay8145 Ай бұрын

Great advise, Greg, let us hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

@LutherBrown-wf6tc Ай бұрын

Definitely agree with those points greg, i am hobbist welder but work as a mechanic as a job, with that said even if you have the knowledge, but only have the bare minimum of tools for the most optimal outcome, that can be a disaster in the making, Many years ago a friend of a family member asked me to change a control arm on a car at home in the yard, somethin told me dont do it, well anyway to make a long story short, a bolt broke and a hour and a half job turned into a ordeal i didnt have the needed tools at home, i didnt get paid to this day, and the family member wasnt happy at all, what im getting at is listen to your gut instinct, seldom does anything workout as you anticipate in the real world,

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Instincts are definitely worth listening to. Sounds like you got put through the wringer on that job, definitely not where anyone wants to be. You do learn a lot from those jobs, hard won knowledge for sure lol.

@Trump985 Ай бұрын

While I have the common sense to not get in over my head when it comes to work, I certainly am guilty of it on my own stuff! Seriously I spent more in materials alone last week fixing my rusted out mower deck than a new deck cost! My justification was it would be “easier” and “quicker” to repair the rust then to swap out everything to a new deck. After spending the better part of a day “fixing” the damn thing I came to the conclusion that it was just so thin, hence flexing and causing the blades to hit the deck on every bump that I would have to replace every square inch of steel to make it right. Sometimes we need to take the advice that we give our customers every day “it’s not worth fixing” and apply it to ourselves!

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Definitely. It can be really hard at the start to know for sure how much time and money will be invested into something. Without that knowledge by time you’re halfway in and realize the animal you have it can be real hard to walk away lol. The one benefit to fixing things is you can make it work perfect for your specific use. If you’re real particular with how something works or the job it does, modifying/fixing something can give you a better outcome than buying something new off the shelf.

@TorBoy9 Ай бұрын

Well said. I'm a beginner welder and I know it. Thanks!

@andrewbradstreet4218 Ай бұрын

Solid advice, per usual, Sir

@DG-fn7qg Ай бұрын

Great advice! Keep up the good work!

@ypaulbrown Ай бұрын

always great information Greg.....thank you, Paul

@michaelc9507 Ай бұрын

I’m sure you have a buddy whom runs a business and you can pass along the job. I think that was a good call with the trailer.

@ZachStein Ай бұрын

This is so true of every field!

@jake-mv5oi Ай бұрын

Looking forward to the course.

@jasonburguess Ай бұрын

Yet another example of something that was made of aluminum that should have been made of steel

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

I would agree. Aluminum has its use, but long term durability and resistance to stress are not strong points. The aluminum that would be best for that type of work is not generally weldable (7000 series).

@JonDingle Ай бұрын

Even though I have a Tig welder, my skills and my eyes are not good enough. I was asked just last week to weld up a "sump on a diesel engine with it still attached to the engine and with it still in the car". I thanked the customer for the opportunity and advised him I don't weld aluminium. To be honest, I don't like welding aluminium.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

That type of repair is tough. I have done enough oil pans to know it’s got to be off the vehicle to make an attempt. The porosity you will get due to oil contamination will look like the craters on the moon lol. I would drain it, clean it, use a burr on it, and use aluminum jb weld if it had to be done in place.

@emel60 Ай бұрын

Mama told me once: "If you want to end up in a certain place, you simply cannot take every single green light. You'll be late on best and lost like your reputation." Great video and on point. I have two ideas for the videos. I've only recently found out about your channel and I substitute depressing commuting time with lectures. I'm a welder (actually a container repairer), and I find your videos very useful. I failed to see two topics in the list: Conversion of an ordinary arc welder into a TIG setup. I've been up all night thinking how easy it would be to do it, providing you've got pure argon, a set of tubes and a tungsten electrodes. I don't mean conversion by getting the proper tig gun setup but a homemade variant, simple and quick. Would you be able to cover that topic? Secondly, is there a way you could do a review of the arc welder to core flux/ perhaps MIG converter gun? I've seen one by Draper but it was gone before I could open the Marketplace messenger- a MIG gun with a tiny spool on it! Is it a failed gimmick or a lesser known solution for a decluttered worshop? 😂 Thanks Mr. Greg! Cheers from Scotland ❤

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Welcome and it’s awesome to hear people chime in from all over the world 😀. As far as converting an arc welder to a tig, it’s actually really easy to do with a torch setup for that. Here in the states it’s possible to buy a setup for 45$ to 60$ turn any stick welder into a tig machine. Here is one example: www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08PV7QY4K/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A1PRJVQ6PVSF2D&psc=1 . It is possible to do a setup for even less, but the functionality of it will be limited. The biggest issue with a home made tig setup is really two issues: 1) holding a tungsten with a setup that dissipates heat (so it doesn’t melt) and 2) setting up a gas valve to atleast turn off the gas flow easily. The premade setups are so affordable and readily available it’s hard to want to rig up something. I actually have a tig setup with a gas valve that can be used with a stick welder, I will have to bust it out in a video. The limitation of those setups is they are all scratch start which is far harder to start and use than modern lift start or high frequency start. The mini mig spool gun welders are a real thing. They do work, but they have limitations. For years a company has made them for off road repairs (runs off 2 12v batteries or 24v). Those work great. The smaller more or less 120v welder in a spool gun units do work, but mostly only work on thinner material. I kind of want to get one of those dirt cheap welders and see what I can do with it lol.

@emel60 Ай бұрын

@@makingmistakeswithgreg @makingmistakeswithgreg well hot digitt, I'd be surprised as hell if they do work as intended. My only concern is the maneuverability in thigh spaces and the self shocking capabilities! As for the homemade tig.. I see your point- not worth the hassle, as the market delivers an easier solution. I presume thr scratch start can damage the electrode if done incorrectly? I'm sure audience will be thrilled to see both your tig conversion setup as well as the spool gun review, should you be able to find one. Thanks for replying pal :)

@ericarachel55 Ай бұрын

sage advice

@fastbusiness Ай бұрын

Judging by the pictures, someone has already tried to weld up cracks in this plate and it broke again. Now they want someone else to weld it a second time. Why would it hold better the next time? A better way might be to replace that whole bottom plate and weld that into something solid. It would surely be better than trying to patch up the cracks again and again. Wise to turn down this job.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Yep, 100%. The first guy did what I know won’t work, aka welding over cracked aluminum. Even if they had prepped it 100% and had far better welds than what was pictured, it still would have failed again. In that case it’s really an issue of understanding why it failed in the first place and how to reengineer it so it doesn’t fail again, then a welding issue. Definitely not an easy fast job lol.

@sixdegrees6434 Ай бұрын

That test idea is gold. I’m going to Sub and hope to see it soon

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

I have been writing a whole program with videos that follow the program. There will be extensive practical tests that get people ready for actual repair work. That was one of the hardest things for me, taking what I learned in school and converting it to the real world. Without working as an apprentice under a highly skilled person (like most people at home) the learning curve is so steep it can seem impossible. My hope is that the system will help people gain skills and confidence along with having an idea of where they are in skill. When you know where you are in skill and have a plan to get to the next skill level, it much easier to progress.

@sixdegrees6434 Ай бұрын

I am 54 and I have to change career. I’m far too old to get an apprenticeship so it would be awesome for people like me. I’m about to buy a cheap welder to try it out and see if I like it. I love the way tig looks and the technical aspect but I can’t afford it right now. I’m looking at sub $1500 with bottle, face shield, gloves etc.

@paulkurilecz4209 Ай бұрын

That area has been repaired several times before. This tells me that the design is deficient.

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Yep, which means unless you fix the design problem it will break again.

@bmalovic Ай бұрын

If I can't do it properly, what ever it is, I will pass, no mater how big is the offer. Everything else is just the greed... And it will bite you... So big 👍for you Greg. Done this in my job many times (computer networks), not to speek on my hoby (any kind of trade, from wood, to metal, to what ever attract me in the moment...) Nope.. I can not do this, or this can not be done in the way you expect... so... I will not do this. Period. Of course.. when you speak about friends, relatives, etc, not payd jobs... there is always "border line" cases.... lets try, and as we go.. we will see if it's up to our skills and capacities or above them. Considering no harm is done of course, or cace where.. it's already broken, so what ever we do, it can only be better :)

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

It definitely is worth passing on if it can’t be done right. It’s hard at times if you know you have the skill but not the tools, or if you know there is no hope for it to work. Many people simply don’t understand why certain things cant be done, and they want a solution for their problem more than anything. Sometimes the best solution is to just replace it lol. Many people also have unrealistic expectations on cost. Good work takes time and time is money.

@_hector__ Ай бұрын

ive taken college courses on welding and fabrication, ive also helped make picket fences in a shop and consider myself capable of not making booger welds a family member asked if he could buy the materials and i would fabricate and weld picket fences for him in my backyard i believe this should be feasible, the harder part would be the measurements, fitup and the creation of a fixture right? i also dont know how much i should charge for like 4ft tall 110 linear feet fencing thank you

@makingmistakeswithgreg Ай бұрын

Price wise there are infinite ways to price a job. The hardest part is knowing how much time and how much material it will take. If I were you I would do a test run of a small section to get an accurate time estimation. Be reasonable with it, if it takes 10min per section add extra time for hiccups. Part of learning to bid jobs is making mistakes. The one mistake you don’t want to make is losing money on the material. Your bid must cover all materials and consumables 100%. If you end up not making any money but you break even, you basically got an education in how to do better next time. If you lose your shirt on the job, it won’t take many more before you no longer have a shirt. I definitely need to cover this in a future video to help people out.