I've been hovering around 2k iR on both oval and road for a while now and tbh the racing up front is usually pretty clean. I think there is an inverse bell curve of probability of accidents in relation to iRating. The lowest splits are full of big dumbs who barely know how to control their car; top splits are full of egomaniacs who swear nothing is ever their fault. The middle splits are full of mediocre but competent drivers who know they're probably not fast enough to win but if they keep their nose clean, they can still gain iRating with a top 10 finish.

it's honestly amazing how people manage to hit each other on a pace lap, going like 50mph. My last race someone hit me on the bumper on a pace lap and gave me a 2X. I really liked that you showed statistics to prove your point, and I agree with you for the most part. I try to race the safest way I can, if I get a run on a restart for example I lay off the throttle, and I don't try to go for risky moves, yes it costs me positions a lot of time but I'd rather lose positions than lose my car, and be unable to race. But the way I see some people race.... there were many times I saw 4-wide into turn 1 at pocono.... and I think you know how that went... Now, I am not a perfect racing driver who is never at fault, I make mistakes sometimes but when I do it's never because I was pushing it for one extra position. I love the dallara IR 18 series because the restarts are single file... and if im gonna be honest i wouldnt mind it if restarts were single file for trucks and cup, sure it would lose realism but it would prevent so many wrecks.

It's so bad in GT3 these days, there are no clean overtakes, it's always a dive to the apex and then forgetting the other car exists on exit. And that's if you're not just punted in a train because you didn't go for a late brake. It's to the point where defending is just making sure if they hit you it's perfectly flat on the back so you don't spin, and when they try and push you offtrack you have to lift to their rear so they dont try it

Iracing needs to implement a test at the beginning of every season regarding sporting code topics and you can’t go on track until you pass it

I've always thought that a hard-fought battle for 9th was way more fun then getting wrecked trying to fight for 2nd...I wish more people had that mentality.

Hey! New iRacing player here, sorry about the long read but I wanted to share my experience so far as a new player. I started iracing a few months ago - being a huge NASCAR player starting at around nascar 98 PS1- to about NASCAR 2005 - PS2. Around 3 months ago I found out about NR2003 and found out that iRacing derived from that amazing game, so I decided to give iRacing a serious go. I messed around with it a bit on an Xbox controller picking up a few online practice sessions with the cup series Camero which that motivated me to buy into a full racing sim setup. I picked up the Logitech G923 and a racing seat, got it all together and managed to slot around 20th place in global standing for time attack for the Las Vegas Motor speedway with the Gen 3 ARCA car which motivated me further, and give ranked oval races a go. But had to quit ranked oval racing after around 5 races. Initially - I didn't do to bad. I would usually qualify 4th, but as soon as the race starts every lobby was filled with players that were ether intentionally attempting to crash an opponent, unusually aggressive, or players being way too competitive and risky trying to battle it out with the leaders and wreck; causing pile ups that were ether extremely difficult to avoid or unavoidable all together. After this happened, I noticed that I was getting incident points anytime an opponent bumped me, I left the track trying to avoid a wreck, I crashed myself attempting to avoid a wreck, or a driver would line up incorrectly on the lap 0 line up causing an off set at green, and I would get black flag for passing even though I had no other option. It ended up feeling like my safety rating was being punished for the chaos, so I tried to get advice from online resources and It all boiled down to - report the drivers with video and don't race during rookie races, only avoid accidents, which isn't an enjoyable first experience; causing me to shelf the idea entirely. I now strictly play with the AI, while the AI is not consistent at qualifying. It's still an enjoyable way to experience the game - it's a shame there's no rewards for doing well against them. My first 100 laps with them at Las Vegas was extremely rewarding, and I learned a lot, best of all I was able to fully finish the race without a single incident.

Also as an aside: races are short but memories are long. People remember who drives bad in officials. People talk. Recklessness is a great way to get yourself shut out of a lot of places because of reputation, or if you're in a league and driving reckless, a great way to be removed and not allowed back.

Joined in end of February this year, in my 60s and used to race short tracks starting in the early 80s till 2009 my son mostly. Raced street stocks, sportsman, late models, super lates, was nothing great but held our own and had a blast. Respect was a big thing, when mistakes were made most of the time it was talked about, sometimes it got physical, but after a little while things were back to helping each other. There were times when the tracks would send people home for a while or ban them. With that being said iracing gives me excitement, anxiety raises my heart beat, all the stuff the real racing used to do. There is a etiquette in racing that is not practiced, shared or known about in the iracing community. Have made my share of mistakes as I was learning how iracing works, have no problem apologizing if I did some bone head move or slipped up, always learning. I truly wonder how many folks just don't get the same emotions out of the sim/game that I do which is perfectly okay, but creates less of a responsible or remorse feeling. I started getting caught up when I was going backwards in the ratings, Raced more conservative and scared, not the way to race! Enjoyment levels were dropping quickly, stopped thinking about the ratings most of the time and working on me and dealing with situations and learning tracks and cars better, still old n slow but happiness level getting better. My closing thoughts are if iracing could refine who's at fault most of the time, send to the back of the pack (short track racing mostly), ratings taken away from the offender and not the bystander in some instances, basically make folks realize what they are doing by seeing what's at stake. Thanks for listening to the old man. Appreciate everything you put out there Justin. PS it was painful for me too, to type this, single finger pecker 😂

The lack of dynamic track and the pressure to be in the dominant line to not burn your tires is certainly a contributing factor on the oval side.

It's really bad, I agree, and I feel it's not only the racecraft that's the problem, but also a general culture of toxicity that's not uncommon in society now that contributes to it. You touched upon it by mentioning the Verstappen situation with people online cheering it and saying it was deserved. Why are people so insistent on seeing revenge and comeuppance? People also defend their poor racecraft the same way by saying the other person deserved it and that just creates the cycle you described. That's bad enough as it is, but add in poor behavior and personal attacks in a competitive lobby, it makes it frustrating to find clean and drama free racing.

I've been on iRacing since 2013 and have 1 win: one of my first races in street stock at Charlotte. I'm not concerned about wins and never have been. I race for the fun, which is why I don't race much anymore. I'm either involved with people who catch me in their wrecks or idiots who run into me and wreck me. I'm part of Worn Out Racers but they, like most leagues, start too early for me.

Yknow I’m glad I found this community because I thought I was a lunatic for enjoying racing in the Arca series, but ever since I came back to iRacing after a couple year hiatus it just makes more sense to race in it. I tried to get good at racing in B fixed and C fixed but after way too many caution filled races it started to feel pointless. Maybe open is a different story but I haven’t tried that yet, and I don’t have it in my free time to race in leagues.

I joined iRacing for oval. The amount of cautions on the oval side led to me running most of my time on the road side.

I'm glad you've made a video on this. I had originally committed to doing every race in NiS fixed, but I've decided to start using the drop weeks to skip certain races, particularly at short tracks. I'm tired of pacing for at least half the race and races taking 2 and a half hours to complete instead of an hour/hour and a half.

Im quite low on ir around 1500 and recently on reddit i read some guy got taken out by some 5000ir driver cause he was greedy for a podium finish and pulled a real shitty overtake with no gap. When both of them got screwed the high irating guy's apology reason was ' i had to try do that cause i would lose irating' this stuff is happening cause of the esports scene competitiveness cause everyone wants to be the best fast but no one wants to learn how to be better the right way with good racecraft. Its as frustrating for anyone with a mature attitude as it is for you my friend 😢

Excellent commentary. The issue comes down to respect (for other drivers) and an innate concern to win / place through race craft. Unfortunately, iRacing is a self-policing service and many approach it as a 'video game' treating other (real) drivers as AI cars. This is why I personally prefer league racing which mitigates this behavior.

YES bro thank you. I haven't renewed my subscription in months and don't plan to renew any time soon, and I started in around 2019. Mix that with the toxicity and lack of accountability, iRacing and it's community has become a disaster. Fun sim, I've won a lot and have had fun, and I've lost a lot and had fun. But within the last couple years the community and racecraft has gone down the drain. Thank you so much for making this video. Everyone needs to hear this.

This is why they need you to pass some sort of training before starting the sim. Been saying it for yaers

So I’m not the only one noticing this. The last few months have been awful. Average SR in the races I’m in seems to be a bit lower as well. I did a handful of races last week and was wrecked in nearly every one through no fault of my own. It’s making me not want to race. I’ve gone back to other games because I hate planning my evening after work around doing a race only to get wrecked early on or halfway through.

4-wide and 5-wide racing can be very exciting when pulled off without incident. The real world example that really impressed me was the NASCAR Cup drivers racing 5-wide on the straight straight at Phoenix, which is just barely wide enough to fit them at all. Unfortunately it is not just netcode that online racers have to deal with, but the lack of spotters that can call more than 3-wide with more information and, limited field of view. These scenarios are definitely harder to survive with the quality of racing on the service now.

I've only been playing for a little over a month now. The issue with iRacing is how hard they make it to report some d'bag that desperately deserves it. Most people have a fixed amount of time to race each night, and don't want to spend half of it filing a report.

I seriously believe if that iracing implemented some sort of age limit things would get better. The amount of times i've called someone out for driving like an idiot and heard a child scream back is insane.

i love that you just dont throw an opinion out there and that you can back it up with facts like shown in the graphs! I got the same problem, i started with iracing something around 3 weeks ago and i made it from rookie to D class. After getting the D class license i got into GT4 racing because i think its a good start into GT3 which is my goal for the long run, thats what im most inrested in. But even there the carnage and amount of accidents, because someone goes for the nuclear cornerbomb, is insane! I always drive a slow qulifying round so i get to start in the back and then i just keep distance and drive safe so i gain SR. i-Rating in my opinion is what comes in the end when you unlocked a car and a series you like so that you can then find your area in the field where you feel safe and comfortable!! keep up the great work!

Huge thanks for posting this Justin. I'm relieved I'm not the only one. A-fixed at Pocono last week was a huge mess, wrecked twice by the same guy in turn 2 cause he can't back off half a car-length and build a proper run. I'm not gonna block. And wrecked lap 1 in turn 1 cause a driver cut down way early, sweeping 4 cars with him. It's been really frustrating and frankly putting me off from racing despite that I love it dearest.

This what happens when the dominant advice to new drivers is to let faster drivers pass. You get a whole "generation" of 2k+ iR drivers who never learned how to safely pass.

man you nailed this one, I was in a A Fixed race at new Hampshire got pole and led a few laps on a few restarts and only lost p1 when I got divebombed in the corner so I went high only to have someone overdrive the corner and took me out, I feel one reason my IR is not a lot higher is I will let a car by if I see they are faster especially if they go from say .5 or so behind me to like a .1 as well as I do not like putting myself or other drivers in bad situations IE 2-3 wide in a corner. (I have had Lap down cars Block me when I am trying to pass them which to me is Insane)I get some drivers that actually act like I should not be racing them as I have a IR that at the moment is about a 1.6 or so. I also do a lot of racing where there may only be 1-2 splits max so I get in sessions with Div 1 drivers or drivers with 3K and a times some up in the 5K plus IR. It has gotten to a point where I fear (At times) running races as I can figure I will get wrecked or caught up in some one else's wreck. Just a FYI I think 2020 had the worst RaceCraft or lack of said race craft and that was due to the influx of new drivers I believe due to the pandemic. If you need an example of how I race just look up any of my streams I do in official races. I may race with to much concern and has been detrimental to my finish positions and IR but that is just the way I learned by IRL when if we wrecked we may not make next race as we had to fix the car and buy parts out of pocket with limited if any sponsors. That way of racing was drilled into me and I have tried to be more aggressive but its hard to change the way I was taught to race which started for me back in the early mid 80's when I was to young to race but spent a lot fo time working on the race car Just did the math LOL and that was about 40-41 years ago.

It's why I have given up on most multiplayer. AI racing is more realistic.Younger players with zero patience trying to win in the early laps and sitting behind the pace car is frustrating..

Very well said. I used to be a diehard iRacer a few years ago. I've been a member since about 2012. I may race twice a year these days(Daytona 500 and maybe a little bit over the summer) The racecraft is what chased me away, I used to get mad at individual drivers until I realized for every 1 bad driver I get away from there are 5 more to replace him in the next race/series. I love looking at my stats from time to time, I went from hundreds of official races a year down to 1 or 2.

I've almost completely stopped racing in official series because of the issues you highlighted in this video. I've got a busy life and only have time for a couple races a week and it's so incredibly frustrating to spend time practicing, qualifing, and then getting to the green flag just to have someone wreck it in the first corner trying to be a hero. Even if you are then fortunate enough to avoid damage you usually have to then just listen to everyone yell at each other about it for the remainder of the race. I think part of the issue is that iRacing trys to take itself way too seriously and it bleeds into the overall product.

3rd timeslot bottom split of the 24 was very good! A few cars that were a bit of weapons but overall pretty clean and courteous racing.

My oval incidents per race is 2.96, and for me that feels awful. I couldnt imagine haivng a 6 incident per race. This is why I almost exclusively race in leagues.

honestly with how much money iracing asks for and rakes in i don't see the developmental improvements to justify the price especially the not so "free" content. at this point iracing is starting to feel antiquated and like a bad value for the amount of money they ask you to spend on a recurring basis

8:24 well said man, I feel the same way too. I’ve branched out into running dirt and road more now. I ran A and B fixed all the time last year around this time. Just sucks with the way how the racing has become. I’m glad you said something. Hopefully this sparks a change.

I'm with you with all the cautions with the C and higher series. I wish iRacing would create a series that have no cautions for the higher licenses. It's really not fun to run a 50 lap race 2 green flag laps at a time. I'm starting to go back to the ARCA series just b/c I can get a race in within 45 minutes.

Thank you for posting this Richmond week. Gives people a pep talk before going into the 2nd fastest short track

Seeing this after Pocono, where I primarily race Trucks. 50-80% of each race was under yellow, with super long pace laps. Definitely a rough experience.

I’ve noticed this too. I’ve held just above a 2k oval iRating for quite some time, but I got demoted from A Class last season and regardless of how much practice and how conservative I drive on track, I can’t get back up, because no matter what there will always be like 3 wrecks to start a race of which at least one of them will be unavoidable for me. I’ve really been enjoying iRacing far less recently as a result, a sim I once look forward to driving after school or work every day of the week

Some of you need to hear this, Its ok if someone passes you. You do not have to block and defend every position on every lap. When it gets to the last 10 laps, go for it.

Thanks for the video, Justin. Only thing I can say is that I agree and I've seen my official participation drop off significantly since joining. More and more users are racing a few times per week (for a number of reasons), and it leaves a higher concentration of less than respectful racing because there is always another race going off next hour to try again. Unfortunately not everyone has the time to try again, some people carve out that 1 to 2 hours to do their one race per day/week.

I think your take is pretty much 💯 spot on, especially regarding guys who just think running a boring 11th-15th race may as well be a death sentence as well as real life setting a bad example for us iRacers, especially the younger kids, ovals with Chastain, and on road guys like Verstappen who are really fast but have low racing IQ the second another car gets near them. It's mainly why I stopped racing so much in recent years. You mentioned C Fixed specifically, but the NASCAR iRacing Series is just as bad these days which pains me to say as when the NiS was introduced it was by far my favorite series and the attitudes in that series at that time was to race with more respect so everybody would get to the end. The racing was so much more respectful than it is now even though there were definitely idiots at times, but they were fewer and farther between. I saw a Coke Series driver streaming a top split NiS at New Hampshire a couple of weekends ago, not only was it super toxic with multiple intentional wrecks (from Brodie Kostecki nonetheless) and a dozen guys screaming on the mic the entire time, I don't think they ever went more than 5 or 6 laps green at once. In what easily must have been a 5k+ SOF race. I've been on iRacing since 2011 for context. This year, I've done 32 races and I've finished 31, most times on the lead lap, so I don't think I'm speaking from a place of just being frustrated with not having a chance due to idiots crashing me. I've had 1 DNF this year, in a C Open at North Wilkesboro. There were 17 cautions and no runs longer than 11 laps. I remember when C Fixed was introduced, the same issues you are talking about now with regards to the lack of racecraft and high crash/caution counts were there then too. But that mentality just creeped into any series that is popular as far as the NASCAR stuff goes. Short tracks are basically unraceable in officials nowadays, which didn't used to be the case but definitely is now in certain series. It's not nearly as fun as it used to be when you can't hardly make a few laps without a caution and a massive screaming match breaks out every 5 minutes. And no, it's not "hilarious" to hear grown men screaming over a video game for 2 hours. It's toxic and off putting as hell.

Like @GameSpeaking I race as safe as I can. I'm always conscious of NOT wanting to ruin someone else's race. I'd rather come in several positions lower and race clean. And here's the thing... it's conscientious drivers who practice good race craft and sportsmanship that the service needs. I think rather than cut back on racing maybe we should race more. The more clean drivers there are, the less room for the idiots. Thank you for the rant! It was spot on.

thanks for the content dj. watching your videos makes me want to renew my subscription to race again.

Road is the same thing, to be honest. I'm at a point that when a friend comes to me to try and get into iRacing I just say "yeah, avoid F4", "yeah Ferrari Challenge is carnage", "F3 from the grid? you're crazy"... basically just on B/A series like IMSA and ESS you have a good chance of not getting taken out randomly by someone who ran out of talent of is too impatient to wait for an opportunity to present itself. Which then sucks because those series are 12/12 paid tracks. So, for the new player, it's either roll the dice on sketchy grids in D/C or pony up the cash to drive with people who don't want to (most of the time) win by the end of lap 1 necessarily.

I took a break from iRacing for over a year. Came back and it has been horrendous, even in 5k SOF races. I got full throttled in the corners THREE TIMES in an NIS race yesterday, even on lap 2. We had 23 cautions at New Hampshire last week!

Well done mate. I was waiting for someone with your profile to say enough is enough. I was doing a regular weekly race in open late models which I really enjoyed, but haven’t done any online races for the last couple of seasons. I got sick and tired of getting caught in other people’s wrecks and the agro from other participants (won’t call them drivers). I have looked at other series but road and dirt are worse at the moment I think. The only real way to tidy up the racing is to force people to improve their skills and patience. If it’s harder for people to get to the car they want to drive, AND STAY IN THAT CAR, they will tidy up their act. Include iRating in determining license level and increase the incident penalties so more of the clowns get disqualified. It won’t take long. The counter argument is that too many people will get the sh**S and go somewhere else. My argument to that is GOOD! then people who are focused on improving their skills, racecraft, and racing because they love it will come back to weekly racing and not just do Ai racing. Until iRacing administrators grow a set and take a leap of faith and actually upgrade the penalty system and the license system, this problem is going to stay the same at best. I, like a stack of other people, have solutions but I doubt anyone would listen! Don’t stop, you have the profile to get something rolling. If you want a hand, sing out.

Amen. As A.J. Foyt said once "Got people out there that shouldn't even be in a goddamn race car!" The cleanest races I've ever done were at the beginnings on Street Stocks, Legend Cars, Mazda MX-5... When I raced this February at Auto Club on the xFinity Series cars, I did something like 10 races there. At least in 9 of them I've got involved in so many wrecks caused by stupid driving happening so early that they took a massive toll to my iRating and Safety Rating, to the point that I've got demoted from Licence A to B, the only clean race that I was lucky enough to have without being taken out I've finished 2nd! In fact I've done a calculation and without all those wrecks right now I might be above 3k-4k of iRating... And instead I'm still stuck at 1.5k iRating. Same deal for the Road Courses, people can't even handle a Formula Ford without spinning and wrecking half of the field after 2 corners! Or in the IMSA iRacing Series. In this series I'm still looking to have a normal first lap without getting bulldozed by people because using the brakes for them is for weak people when there's a crash ahead of them... Oh and the main thing that pisses me off is that lapped cars ruined to me so many races by not getting the heck out of the way when they're getting lapped and there's no caution, the worst idiots and POS ever met.

I am at a point where every race I either gain iRating and lose SR, or the opposite. If I just give up the positions with zero fight I have a alight chance to run a clean race where no one hits me. I am far from perfect but I know how to drive safe, and have been destroyed from the top 3 placea by lapped cars more than I can count. I save replays of this as proof.

I ran one A Fixed Race at New Hampshire. I watched a coke series driver take it FOUR wide on the bottom on like lap 10. He caused a big wreck and ruined some people’s race. When I casually said in the voice chat “yeah, taking it four wide there wasn’t going to work” he just fired back and acted like I didn’t know anything. I really hate having to run like 3 or 4 races to hopefully get one of those that actually end up being fun. Makes me really question why I spend the time I do on iracing. I’ve been saying it for years, iracing needs to crack down on the sporting code and a whole lot more to educate the user base on race craft. If they don’t, their product will deteriorate into something many will not enjoy.

Hit the nail on the head my boy. I have only been around iRacing since last November, and I am FAR from a great driver, but I always try to race clean and hard and improve my craft. The past few weeks have been a shitshow, and quite honestly, I am about done with the service.

I’ve been around a racing for over 10 years and I can see a HUGE difference in the racing. In my opinion you nailed some good key points. I think in the A Class and IRacing series the Next Gen car has caused a lot of the sorry racing. Last night in the Richmond race I got 18x incident points. 18x!!! My car still drove fine. Matter of fact I raced from dead last to 6th place when I finally got a black flag. Now, here’s the deal. I’m an old school racer. If you chase me down I’ll let you go. I’ll race you clean and rarely will I move a car out of the way. Out of the 18x’s only a 2x was my direct doing by going into the grass, twice, to avoid accidents. All race I kept getting slammed into slowing down for wrecks lol. People must be racing while texting or something because I swear it seems people have no clue anymore. They will just send it every opportunity they get. Secondly, you mentioned actual race car drivers setting a bad example. Again, been a huge nascar fan all my life. The next gen car has killed the racing. They have to race like a jackass anymore just to pass because all the cars are dead even basically. The downforce is much higher than they’ve ever had. Handling is not much of an issue anymore really. So, they make all the ground up on restarts or they just flat move someone out of the way. You’re 100% right. People see that then race that way on IRacing. The real guys have to race that way now but we certainly don’t have to on IRacing. I’m with you man, I wish people would chill out and know when to push and when to race.

I feel the same way, I get on iRacing when I can and hop in some races. A few weeks back I was racing at phoenix with the legacy trucks and a lap down truck was racing everyone like it was for position, just super hard. I ended up having to move him just a bit to pass and the next lap just sends it and wrecks me, who was running 5th at the time. Was super frustrating as I try my best to stay out of the leaders way if I know I'm running slower.

Its similar on road. Even in top split, I find if anyone gains 0.1 on you they think that entitles them to make a move on the next corner, offline. Which usually means you either back out or take the 50/50 contact. For me if someone is +2k and on a C license I stay well away, let them have the position because I will probably take it back by the end of the race.

NiS at New Hampshire was one of my worst experiences on iRacing, the longest run we had in 3rd split was 7 laps

An understandable rant man. As someone who's been racing since only 2017, even I can recall just how much better the average C-Fixed used to be vs. how it is today. It's burned into my memory, back when I started you could have a B fixed go flag to flag at Martinsville. I rarely run B or C class races anymore do to this insane caution average but the why is a bit deeper than examples being set in Coke or even real life. I think it comes down to a general shift in culture over the years in all of life toward a more self aggrandizing view of reality. When you no longer have empathy for the driver who's race you destroyed, you get this behavior. Then as this shift occurs you get a lot of people, myself included, who wind up adapting and mimicking this style to avoid being crashed. Its a feedback loop in both directions, cleaner races lead to cleaner races, ugly races lead to more ugly races. I have two potential solutions that might help. #1 Have a multiplier for your iRating Gain/Loss that is applied based on incidents. Say you get 0x, you'll get a 1.5x multiplier to your iRating gain and a 0.5x multiplier to your loss,. Now say you get a 16x you'll get a 0.1x multiplier to your gain and a 2x multiplier to your loss. People care a lot about iRating, and nothing promotes change quicker than self interest. #2 is just to have "plate week" style safety rating impacts just be the norm. If you get a 4x, you will loss safety rating, make it much more punishing, etc. I don't think it would take a lot to make a big difference. As I said its a chain reaction thing, cautions breed cautions, so a 5% difference in behavior could lead to a 15-30% reduction in cautions really quickly.

This is why I've stopped racing so much. I used to enjoy running multiple races a week, now I have no desire to put in the time and effort to get wrecked by someone that is being overly aggressive. Literally can guarantee going into every race I'm going to get wrecked, and it happens like clockwork. It's pretty frustrating.

I’ve noticed the official mentality like what was described here making its way into leagues, which used to generally be a safe haven from the mayhem of officials. My league has had some great people come through, but then we’ve also had some come through and even a few that are still in it that come in bumping elbows instead of shaking hands in the first week. I run very few official races during a given year but what I have experienced and seen from streams from my peers have shown there is definitely a lack of respect or very least racecraft. Making contact and risky moves 5 laps into an 80 lap race.

The amount of times I’ve seen someone ruin their race by just rear-ending a slower car in front of them for no reason is wild. They’re literally lapping them, just turn the wheel a bit.

I agree with everything you said. Mostly.

Valid rant, I agree with everything you said. I also feel the report system could be more "user friendly" and not such a pain to the point half the people dont even bother. 30mb for a video file in 2023......

You should definitely try open. Ran the 9:45 central C open. All 110 laps green. Finished 10th in the 10 car trying fuel strategy that didn’t work out. Lost 9 IR in 3550 SOF and gained over .5 safety rating since I was on the border. Elliott Sadler finished 7th. Race took just over 42 minutes. Ran the 11:15 central C fixed. There were 7 cautions including GWC. Restarted 9th in the 9th place car for GWC but finished 18th when the 11th place car hit me not once but twice in turn 2 (saved both but second hit pushed me into car making it 3 wide outside so turned right into wall). Lost 86 IR in SOF of 3184 and .31 safety rating. Race took just over 35 minutes. Car who hit me twice finished 8th so probably worth it…

All facts. Short tracks are no different if not worse. Even the 4k SOFs in Short Track cars in Open (or fixed). It's terrible. I've stopped racing for the most part because of the lack of respect and race craft in iRacing as whole. Hopefully it gets better but in order for it to get better, there would likely have to be a change in how hard it is to move up in licensing. That won't happen so this is going to be the new norm unfortunately. PS - I've been on the service since 2009 and it didn't really start getting "bad" until COVID started in my opinion. That's when I really noticed.

Good video, props on making one. Iracing has stopped growing some time ago even though stats would say otherwise. Covid honeymoon is over and now sim is just there for that one week that might have a decent track/car combo people would get excited about and race. Sadly nothing else decent has come out to even remotely come close to it as it is very hard to beat 10 plus years of development and the large community that is keeping iracing alive. This is a very niche genre of gaming and competition is still very weak which makes iracings job easier to stay at the top all these years.

Greatly appreciate the rant. I'm fine with letting faster drivers by, but nobody even really gives me a chance and just sends it 110% every time. The last legends race I ran resulted in a car flying on top of me on the pace lap and having to drag the car back to 5th. Definitely frustrating experiences recently.

Preach brother. Been a 2k split driver and I think your comment about top split rings too true. The top split races honestly scared me with how wreckless they drove and I got dumped because someone was having a bad race. Never had happened except on accident in lower splits. Ironically every time I'm in a top split it's a wreckfest, and the high numbers aren't the ones causing wrecks. Ironically its led to me waiting for peak times and for a minimum 3 splits to race simply so I can stay away from drivers trying to win it on lap 1 or dump me for the win.

Amen!! I have been away from I racing for a few years because of this very topic and something needs to be done! I raced in real cars for 5 yrs and we had respect for each other . Racing is precision driving at high speed ! Not just driving over your head to win! Great video and keep teaching us!

As someone who is a rookie in iRacing, I think a lot of this comes from those in the top splits also don't have the "oh god I don't wanna hit anyone" fear. I had such palatable fear the first time behind the wheel in iRacing that I had to stop for six months because I didn't want to wreck anyone that bad.

i once did a charlotte street stock race for fun because i love that combination (i was c class and still am) and i got pile drove on lap 3 going into turn one, the guy that wrecked me decided to brake check me after, then while going down pit road he ran through me DQING both of us, i protested and got my irating and safety rating back, a week or two later i see him in an arca phoenix race, he tries wrecking me ONCE AGAIN, and wrecked himself, later that race he wrecks a lapped car right infront of me (i’m running p3 at the time) wrecking all three of us. some people have no respect in this game at all

Lots of races i start from pitlane because 1. I don’t care about wining 2. I want to finish 3. I usually finish decent. 4. If I don’t, I don’t care But I am not the guy everyone or someone is pissed at

i've always said to go to league racing to get good, clean racing... but it's almost impossible to find and get into a competitive and clean league these days. there's so many out there and so many are poorly run and people arent penalized for their nightmarish aggression

In all the Pocono races I did this week, at least 50% had intentional wrecks and arguing

I bought in a year ago and have had so few clean races. I bought into the idea, the idea that iracing would be a more mature group of racers.......

It’s been this way for a long time, honestly. RtP is a massive shitshow, official series in general are not fun because of the amount of pacing. Guys intentionally bring out cautions with regularity. The other thing, though, is the the cars are just too easy to drive, OR even if they are more difficult to drive you are often overly penalized for driving at the limit because it just tears up tires. Being forced to underdrive doesn’t allow the best drivers to separate themselves from the pack. It was more fun on v6, unfortunately.

You should race in the weird hours between midnight and dawn. There are a handful of regulars on in those hours and we have a great time. C-fixed and Gen 4 Cup mostly. There are still likely to be cautions but it’s also common to get a full green race a few times a week.

I, too, am gonna get up on a high horse for a minute. Justin and I have raced each other a lot over the years, and I agree with just about everything he is saying here. I just want to add something that I feel confident speaking on. 1:48 - To an extent the Coke Series (DWC/Peak) has always been a bit of a crash fest. There were always a few races a year that were just parade laps. But over the last about 4 years it seems every single race turns into everyone "my corner"-ing each other. Most Coke races now follow a simple plot: An optional early caution, followed by a long green flag run, then during or right after a green flag pit cycle a caution comes out and it's someone getting ran over by someone else trying to get 3-4-5 spots in one corner for the rest of the race causing more wrecks. I played spotter/CC/setup builder for a few different Coke drivers over the last 6-7 years, I get why they go for these low percentage moves - I don't agree with it but I get it. It's so hard to pass, it's so hard to make up any ground. Every driver is so close in skill, and every setup builder in the series is so good. But overall, the Coke series just has no accountability and no incentive to just accept that today isnt your day. It's such a grind for everyone involved, and unless you're the driver winning the races and championships and have the setup builders behind you that can work on it pretty much full time, it is barely worth the time. Moving oval DWC away from the 50-driver roster to the "F1 style" 2 car team charter system IMO was a big mistake for the longevity and quality of the series. Since its introduction there has been a growing number of drivers that get to Coke and then develop this "I dont care anymore" attitude because they "made it" or because they realize what I said above, unless you're winning it just isnt worth the time investment. So since the few hundred people that watch the Coke races see these guys going for these low percentage moves and causing 4-5-6+ guys to wreck while they dont get in the wrecks, it trickles down into all of the other races too. Ignoring the Coke issues, what can be done in the official races to help clean up the racing? The biggest one I think is smaller field sizes. iRacing already made an adjustment for B Open in 23S3 and it has worked really well. The max field size was decreased from 34 to 28, and it's really only helped everyone enjoy the races more. Those middle of the day races where maybe 25-30 people sign up are a lot less crash filled, and people who just dont have the same skillset are not causing races to turn into hour and a half long endurance race since they are racing around people in their skill level. But I think iRacing needs to decrease it more. We are not professionals, we are hobbyists. Big field sizes can be fun, but usually it turns into the same people at the back who shouldnt be in the same race as guys with 6-7k+ iRating crashing and ultimately not learning anything because its just short run after short run after short run. The max field size in Rookie races is 14 cars, then D is 24, C is 28, B is 28, and A is still 34 I believe. Everything but Rookies still needs a smaller max field size. Now I cant speak on stuff like the CARS Tour and SLM series' since I dont race them, but speaking purely about the NASCAR Fixed and Open series' I think the max field size should be changed to this: Class D/ARCA: 18 Class C Fixed/Open: 20 Class B Fixed/Open: 22 Class A Fixed/Open: 24 NIS and Road to Pro should not be affected by this and stay at 35. Those should be the only series that have an almost real-life NASCAR field car count. There's a few other hills I am willing to die on, but right now this is the biggest.

I'm almost glad that I was surprised at this video (especially the empirical evidence), but then I realized the majority of my driving in iracing is in small communities driving more difficult cars (Lotus 79, KamelGT, 87' Cups, etc.) where people are more likely to know each other because of racing often and/or because the skill floor and ceiling are much higher due to car difficulty, so I haven't seen much of what you've talked about in this video. But then when I think about the racing where I am in the more popular road series (IMSA especially), since I'm usually in top split (3.8k road), people are just junking slower-class cars and pulling moves on people of the same class that racing conservatively nets you so much more potential for higher position/irating gains than I feel like it would otherwise. I'm unsure if this is a bad thing, because stale racing isn't as 'fun', but at the same time the level of aggression and almost blindness at the moment in the most popular series definitely needs to be addressed.

I'm a Road and Dirt Road guy, and I recently got in to oval and wanting to try to get up in classes and try to understand how oval works. So I've been racing the SK modify series, cause it was the car I had and I felt like it was easy to drive, but these D class races... jeeeesus, everyone thinks they are top class drivers, and if it dosent go their way, they wreck others... I just wanna have a clean race and try to be as consistant and learn how these races work, but it feels like its more of a "avoid the carnage" race then a actual race. At least in my experience of road racing, the racing feels better, more people just wanna have a good race and not complain if they're comming 6th, 10th, 20th or maybe last. And to end it off, Oval races is the only series were I turn voice and messenges off before the start

I just resubscribed to iRacing for the first time since 2017, and have mainly been driving ACC LFM (LowFuelMotorsport) top or 2nd split the last few years, and it was shocking to see how often people on iRacing make impossible divebombs, take the inside only to outbrake themselves and crash, staying in draft and braking too late and even triple moving on the straights. In LFM you can create a short clip after the race showing an incident and why you think it is unfair, and within 3hrs or so you will have a ruling on the incident, with the stewards being able to retroactively change race results. In LFM the racing is hard, very hard, but also very fair, and very often if you have had a crash that wasn't your fault, after the race you will get a PM saying: "Sorry mate, my mistake", I have yet to experience this EVER on iRacing, people are much more self-centered and rude. I'll keep on doing F1600 for this month, but I dont think I will resubscribe, especially when you realize just HOW expensive iRacing is compared to ACC, AMS2, R3E and rFactor, and the crazy thing is almost all iRacing content is more outdated than the ACC alternatives....

I really want to race some races but avoid these races because of the chaos and negative inpact on my stats. I race clean, I ride till its time to race and I am fine with any finish as long as the racing is clean.

Another thing that factors is iRacing having been inadvertently marketed towards the Casual Racer. iRacing is a Simulator, replicating cars and tracks in an almost true to life feeling. The Casual Racer is used to being able to rewind, restart and wall ride with zero consequence. The iRacing blast into the spotlight during lockdown from Professional sports suddenly throwing themselves into eSports has made people realize that it doesn't take much to use this same software, but they desperately don't have the skill to use it

Agree about the no yellows in Arca. I stopped racing ovals because parade laps bored me. Well, that and the fact that so many tracks for the NASCAR series are draft tracks.

My gripe is, I’m usually in a SoF 1.8-2.5 on ovals. I’m there to race, I don’t care about wins and I’m probably a little too cautious when driving. But I hate when there’s guys that are over 3.5-4.5 and they start at the back and drive through the pack and expect everyone to move out of the way and most times cause accidents and blame the slower guys because you have to drive in your mirrors or overdrive the car as not to crash or impede them. It happens in road too. If your fast start at the front🤷🏻‍♂️

I have been very selective on the races I run because I know that they will be terrible, caution filled, incident prone tracks and splits. I honestly took the last two weeks off because of how aeful the racing has been. The iCrash weekly crew has helped me stay confident and got a win in the IR18 at Dega yesterday. In that race, I saw some awesome driving and some terrible netcode. Another issue is the netcode. Ask Korn about his netcode at Dega.

I felt it when you said the races are better in the lower splits because they drive within there limit. Ivve been on for a year. Got to A in about 3 weeks because I drove like a granny and embodied I’m here for safety rating. Then I got a taste of of caution laps and did t play for 4 months. I came back and drove Rookie street stock cause it was fun and I went to C license in about 3 days. I stopped again. Now I’m pretty safe B 3.2 with a 1450 irating. And now I’m in the 3 rd splits and everyone is trying to be a hero like you said.. I just wish that losing SR wasn’t so consequential.

I think one of the big problems are that people don't have no damn patience. Every damn race it's like ppl are racing to the 1st turn

To me, it's not the cars ,the tracks or tire model. The respect is gone. Like irl.

i think SR is much too easy to farm. i started iRacing in 2021 during week 10 of season 3 and i had a class A license at the start of week 1 of season 4. it's ridiculous. if SR took longer to build, people would take greater care in protecting their licenses.

There needs to be longer races in EVERY division. More laps means people will have to dedicate more time. If they aren't willing to take the time to complete a race, they'll lose ratings on their own. IRacing should be running a cautionless race in every series, in every license class. Survival of the fittest. Drive right or lose out. If someone over drives and get saved by the caution. They rejoin the field with nothing lost and do it again. This will eliminate the restart wrecks. Or maybe flip the scale and make it so rookie and D classes have cautions and C through A, don't. Or offer no caution races in the same fashion as, fixed or open setup. I took such a big hit on my ratings between Atlanta and Pocono, I was able to complete a rookie street stock race that brought my ratings up. Let that sink in

As a bottom split driver (I average about 1K-1.5K iR) I can say that even the bottom split lobbies are becoming more of a wreck fest. For a long while, everyone had the mindset that “were not good enough to push too hard” and it led to some amazing races. For instance, the Coke 600 this year had over 200 consecutive laps of green flag racing in the split I was in. I was able to lap up to 3rd. However, on Thursday, I ran an NiS race at Pocono that had 14 yellows and 44 laps run under caution. I really hope this split doesn’t become that of the higher splits, but it sure seems to be heading that way.

I just started on iracing 5 weeks ago now and the race craft is absolutely atrocious. I’m very surprised it’s this bad. People can’t handle close racing and if they get bumped the wrong way, watch out because you’re getting taken out. It’s ridiculous and very disappointing. I wish I didn’t invest so much money already because I’m losing the will to even keep going on the platform it’s that bad.

Good video. I find oval to be better than Road on this, but I only race 1-2 races a week across 2 series, and most times I’ll start from the back (or the pits if turn 1/2/3 are particularly tight) and it’s game of surviving the attrition. So many avoidable crashes if only there was a little patience in the overtakes 🤦‍♂️

Most of my incidents in A and C series is bc I’m trying to A keep my monentum on corner exit, B trying to slow thecar I’m racing withs momentum, or C I forget about netcode and try to side draft too close. And it’s a get all you can on restarts bc once it files out it’s hard to gain more than 2 or 3 spots in a run, at least from my experience.

With its real-life counterpart seemingly at an all-time low (especially in American oval racing with the Boys Have At It mentality and consequences seemingly nonexistent), it's no wonder racecraft on iRacing suffers. Though it could be argued that, for as much good as iRacing or NR03 or other games/sims of the ilk has done, it has equally caused as much harm in the world of real-life racing in racecraft and just overall sportsmanship. Will forever be one of those chicken/egg things, but I definitely think both go hand in hand.

You are spot on with everything you said my man!! We are all over the way it has become and if it doesn’t change then we will all suffer including Iracing

I'm right around where you are. I can run clean races, but stuff like netcode, dirty drivers, and people making mistakes is what causes the 6 incidents per race. I can say first hand the racecraft is horrible, but Iracing can also do there share to make it cleaner just as much as us people can. For example, this week at Pocono, when someone gets a bad start or restart, the first thing people think is to pass them and take it 3 wide instead of pushing and risking a 4x, so when they barrel down into T1 3 wide for rows and rows, someone is going to send it too deep and wreck the field. If Iracing wasnt so sensitive on car contact, the driver wouldn't have to worry about getting 12x and 16x with just car contact, contact, and off tracks.

Top Split C Fixed at Pocono was a dumpster fire this week. Every. Single. Race... was a wreck fest. Nearly every restart turn 1 was 4-5 wide.

I agree. I’ll be in a B class race and I have to treat it like rookies the first few laps of dodging the crash outs. But once all the goofs have disconnected along with the unfortunate ones that went with them, it’s good racing imo

That was me in the rear view clip, Noticed the car that turned me was a lap car. Its why during plate weeks I run my 2nd account.

the problem with iRacing is that they act like a "racing simulator", but they have automated systems to rate the players... the ideal thing would be to have a real human marshal for every race! there are ways of doing this, like creating a "race control" stats for players and a way to drivers on each race to rate on those directors , in a way that higher ranking events gets higher ranked players acting as this "race control"

Have to say, for the road side, I’m terrified when I’m in a top split race. The driving standards are atrocious. Give me mid or bottom split any day

💯 agreed. I tried racing the Trucks but gave up with all the yellows (I hate caution laps!) and I stick with the Late Model where the racing is much cleaner and there's no cautions.