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SIMILAR MINDS = DIFFERENT RESULTS!? | Hand Review w/ Charlie Carrel & Bencb
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Күн бұрынHand review with Charlie Carrel & Bencb! They have the same thought process on a hand but completely different results!
After the overwhelmingly positive response to their previous hand review, Charlie Carrel returns to once again go through some hands with none other than Bencb himself!
Will the two find their common ground, or will the two once again clash in the best kind of way?
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@CharlieCarrel 3 жыл бұрын
Ben you are the best human, so happy we connected ❤
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Much love Charlie! Thanks for coming on :)
@Mookiethedog 3 жыл бұрын
Yo...Charlie....you're up there too brother
@setofas2394 3 жыл бұрын
Ben keep doing what you doing bro
@Mookiethedog 3 жыл бұрын
@@setofas2394 dude....Charlie is all about kindness and you're just making noise
@evanshafer2791 3 жыл бұрын
@@setofas2394 bro cmon Charlie is already pretty rich do you think he’d make that much of an effort for a tax break?
@oliverskovbolarsen2175 3 жыл бұрын
Love the fact that two men are mature enough to disagree a lot. But speaking about it very calmly. Very rare in 2021
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks man!
@Humanprototype-wh8qr 3 жыл бұрын
was there a time where it was not that harsh of treatment of others?
@connorgrayson7602 3 жыл бұрын
Very happy to actually see a part 2 to this and hope to see more, the healthy debate between 2 amazing poker mindsets is so informative for us donks 🤪 big fan of you both 👊🏻
@losyart 3 жыл бұрын
You mean poker minds right?? Yeah it is great indeed
@TetaBall 3 жыл бұрын
What an unexpected duo with incredible chemistry. Would love to see a course of some sort with these two minds 🚀 Top content
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
Can we change the word "chemistry" to "respect"?
@TetaBall 3 жыл бұрын
@@chuffsie you can say what u want. I said what I said lol
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
@@TetaBall OK, I think we agree, a certain respect and a certain chemistry. I like both words, just to me the respect was more palpable.
@TetaBall 3 жыл бұрын
@@chuffsie I'm also going by their first review vid, which for me had more chemistry than some other hand reviews that I've seen on this channel as well as others. But yes there's also a mutual respect between two very contrasting opinions
@Humanprototype-wh8qr 3 жыл бұрын
@@chuffsie there can be a lot of respect but still no chemistry right?
@blakejohnston1870 3 жыл бұрын
Great stuff again guys. I love how you went from huge admiration, to clashing within minutes, BUT you were both respectful and open with each other. It's pretty rare to see these days. The point about being more open to experimenting/failing resonated with me. It's held me back for a while now doing what I thought I was "supposed" to do. Now I'm trying to treat every session as opportunity to learn, improve and test some new things out, fully accepting I'll make mistakes along the way. Thanks for the great content and looking forward to part 3
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Blake!!
@NugPlug69 3 жыл бұрын
Two of my favorite players!! Love this content and love seeing how you can both disagree on many spots but still print
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks man!
@mryoungshark4086 3 жыл бұрын
its impressive how well ben handle his subjet ! thank you for that great content boys 👏
@adithyang2590 3 жыл бұрын
Great debate :)) This is how great poker minds collide off the table
@jayclennan5197 3 жыл бұрын
This was just lovely... I never use that expression. Not only the tremendous insight of the game but to remember what an actual argument is! Especially in todays world. It is people presenting an idea or belief and another thinking about it, understanding it, and responding with their observations both with and to the contrary. Not zealots yelling over one and other with 0 intention of understanding. Bravo.
@stephensummers8716 3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely phenomenal. Seriously looking forward to part 3.
@d.139 2 жыл бұрын
No Part 3, i think the disscussion was to big.
@ludviglindstrom2064 3 жыл бұрын
If you don’t know anything about your opponent or the player pool the strategy is always GTO, in this case a 4x. I think the tone was a bit harsh for a few seconds, but the ending was good. You can’t agree on everything and you should of course be respectful to everyone. Even to people who sometimes give you shit (it’s happed to me many times, both online and offline). You (almost) always win by being the good guy.
@erkesurer4443 3 жыл бұрын
I am sooo happy to see you 2 together discussing and reviewing some hands that I'm saying it again : ) thank you guys!
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Erke!
@Touji_Kyosei 3 жыл бұрын
Hearing you guys disagree about pocket aces pre flop play is interesting. I think both of you are right honestly. Ben to charlies point and something you mentioned.. if you give 8/9s a good price then they call the small 3bet you will print EV that way bc they fold to larger sizing, but you also run the risk of being sucked out. To Bens point you’re not charging 10’s through KK’s or suited Broadway aces enough to see a flop. Nothing is ever black and white. There are always gray areas which makes this game so wonderful! Another good one gents. Thank you.
@shaner217 3 жыл бұрын
Also a min 3bet will induce more 4bet bluffs imo.
@beepurplepoker6839 3 жыл бұрын
HOLY SHIT WHAT A GREAT BACK AND FORTH WOW loved it seriously ending debate was the NUTZ
@Humanprototype-wh8qr 3 жыл бұрын
I love that video- series. Awesome to witness high lvl professionals dealing with specific situations esp. when they try to get a consensuses with very different opinions. And share it. Thank you a lot to all participants.
@ChrisWolfe31 3 жыл бұрын
This content is gold, thank you so much for this. You guys are awesome
@donnyfanizzi5360 3 жыл бұрын
Well done guys. Thank you for the great commentary.
@antonsergheiciuc4666 3 жыл бұрын
Liked before watching. From your previous collabs, it's clear you two have great chemistry.
@jamescurrie3593 3 жыл бұрын
Very mature from both sides. Great Video
@rral8002 3 жыл бұрын
excellent video thank you for both of you I think poker remains a very sharp discipline. Napoleon said: "between the sublime and the redicule there is only one step"
@Filip528ZOR 3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting discusion about that AA min-3bet hand. Although I understand what Charlie is trying to say, I agree with Ben, with aces anything but folding is profitable, but the most EV you always get is by playing your strong hands, thats just how poker works. Other then the fact that by doing this you are giving villain a too good price I think that you also lose certain amount of value just because min 3 bet usually raises some red flags, as people, mostly fun players and recs are known to do this with AA or KK so people will approach defending this spot more carefully, even with good hands.
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
You are right! Thanks for sharing!
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
@@RaiseYourEdge Surely you're only right if you are playing a GTO machine? If you give someone the right price and they aren't playing GTO then flatting AA is more beneficial. It would only be a bad play if the other person was playing sub-GTO?
@fozzybear19 2 жыл бұрын
Outstanding free content . Thank you
@Michaelperry1985 3 жыл бұрын
Shout out to two of the best exploitative players in the business! Great collaboration guys!
@Mwuesse 3 жыл бұрын
36.21 regarding the J8 hand from villain. I think on the turn it's possible opponent can be trying to exploit call here because he thinks charlie's range is way too many AQ/AJ hands with the As especially given he blocks one of the broadway spades. And if he expectes you to just give up river a lot after the turn play, it's maybe a good play. But yeh he then goes and calls a river which is just bad for him because now your AQ got there and it's only AJ that you can bluff - and he blocks one of the J's. So I think the river call is worse than the turn call. Anyway, great content as always!
@ohmyrage 3 жыл бұрын
I would happily pay for this type of content. Make a course together I enjoy the pushback and the merits of different points of view and leave the student to pick somewhere in the middle rather than listen to a single thought process about an exploitative point!!!
@gummersmcgummery2348 3 жыл бұрын
its great to see two great poker minds have to totally different perspectives
@shaner217 3 жыл бұрын
It’d be cool to have part of the next video to include bencb showing Charlie a monkersolver breakdown of the min 3bet with aces to show Charlie and the viewers the math and then see if Charlie is pursuaded more after.
@Mookiethedog 3 жыл бұрын
You two dudes are the Dream Team
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you man!
@MrJam-jr9kv 3 жыл бұрын
I am only 3mins 45 sec and i can tell this is amazing content
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it
@adrianoalves20 3 жыл бұрын
Sick duo!
@krishnapillaimathieu6468 3 жыл бұрын
This is willy willy good content
@mariodiaz3976 11 ай бұрын
There is so many stuff that you guys don't even mention. 36:44 the 88 hand, preflop you would rather limp than open raise. And you dont even mention wether he would have check raised or check called the flop.
@wxkx4111 3 жыл бұрын
Love both of u sickos
@Therealgoatcheese 3 жыл бұрын
You are truly the goat ben
@user-ep4pp7dt1i 3 жыл бұрын
so love to see u both against point view XD
@d.139 2 жыл бұрын
Where is Part 3?
@HieuPhan-ev4hv 3 жыл бұрын
Nice.
@pheenstar3789 3 жыл бұрын
It's hard to understand your own thought process. It's a non-stop and simple type relatable words get drawn consumed easy and normal has to be a default, as no other experience than your own is ever even possible. Very different, but he rose up high when not many were able to his own way is is awesomeness
@Reydelgrip 3 жыл бұрын
I think the disagreement on the AA min 3-bet hand comes from a misunderstanding. I'm completely on board with what Charlie said. Even from a theory standpoint it might be a valid play as theory = perfectly balanced game. If you have missclicks and you never balance them it's a bad play in theory. If absolutely no one min 3bet w/ AA it should be printing as villains are highly incentivised to 4bet. With that in mind saying w/ a degree of certainty of 100% "this is a bad play" sounds bad.
@d.139 3 жыл бұрын
Important is the EV and then in the long term its not to play this hand in such a way. The 72 example from ben is a good example. I think the pure numbers speak clearly for ben here. he plays these fields regularly and has also proven what brings long-term profit. carrol does not crush these fields of participants as well as ben
@Reydelgrip 3 жыл бұрын
@@d.139 You just don't understand the point. I believe nobody have enough data to be 100% sure that min 3betting AA from BB is a good play or bad play. If the field only have true missclicks you could 4bet any two profitably. Charlie isn't the first one (amongst some high stakes regs) to fake missclicks in order to balance (which again in theory is good).
@skillfuldabest 3 жыл бұрын
I'm kinda surprised that Charlie knows a bit about chess. Does he just watch GothamChess or does he actually have a decent rating of like 1700+ ?
@Humanprototype-wh8qr 3 жыл бұрын
he is like 1900 without any preparation. he is a little genius. certain his iq is 145+
@bflf2334 3 жыл бұрын
Yo Charlie plz upload on you own channel I’m missing your videos
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
All i can say is that these two players are cleary brilliant. I had a conversation with my son about GTO vs Exploitative. It got quite heated, but (correct me if I'm wrong) GTO can't lose against GTO, its only effective against GTO. So who wins if everyone is playing GTO? Charlie Carroll. Because that computer sim doesn't understand a non GTO play. To expect a human to understand the outputs from a supercomputer is daft. If you understand the correct play that a GTO sim always plays that breaks even.....put in a bet size that hasn't been solved. To me this game will never be solved, in the human brain.
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
Quantum computers will solve it. But the human will never be good enough.
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
You have a lack of understanding with GTO. If you play 6 handed and 5 players play perfect GTO and 1 player tries to exploit that, he will lose in the longrun.
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
@@RaiseYourEdge that’s assuming that everyone plays perfect GTO? No? As soon as a human doesn’t understand what a 400x bet means, then it fails. I agree, I’d you’re a quantum computer and have the perfect answer for every bet size on each previous street then I will agree. Totally. Humans aren’t and won’t be ever capable of that. For instance a 3.2x three bet pre could be a good when a 3.1x three bet is not (edit) a call. No human will ever become gto (unless musk gets his way lol). GTO is computer advice. It doesn’t allow for human interpretation. So I agree, perfect GTO should always break even. But until then, it’s possible that GTO can be exploited.
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
@@RaiseYourEdge so I do understand. I understand the difference between the prefect play in every situation and exploiting the humans conception of the perfect play.
@chuffsie 3 жыл бұрын
@@RaiseYourEdge I guess what I’m saying is. No human can play perfect GTO and therefore there is loads of ways of exploiting that. Let’s say each player is on the same wavelength of GTO human understanding…and someone abuses that information. The person who is abusing what the GTO instructions say will lose….simply because of human nature. It’s so obvious that we will never be perfect GTO players. Abuse that. But you need to know what the current level of GTO dictates. So let’s say Charlie understand GTO at the same level as Ben, he is then exploitable. Does that make sense?
@blessedupguy 3 жыл бұрын
Love it
@pioneershadecdg5257 3 жыл бұрын
Thx gents good crack
@d.139 3 жыл бұрын
Short Summary: carrol talks shit most of the time and ben is the master...
@RaiseYourEdge 3 жыл бұрын
Not true
@d.139 3 жыл бұрын
@@RaiseYourEdge ok, that you are the master is true :) no, seriously, it is unbelievable that he includes misscliks in his considerations with AA and then argues for the style of play with the worse value
@rigadri4725 3 жыл бұрын
i love charlie, hes so fake ! other than that great content on this channel !
@khansirrealname9369 3 жыл бұрын
Just mute when Charlie is talking. Why this kid is even talking against bencb, he should listen all the time.
@ifeelhalfnaked484 3 жыл бұрын
phil ivey will never sit down and discuss with you this, this is just insane.
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