Thanks for watching, and let me know what you thought of the list! I'm including answers to a couple of questions I expect to get below, as well as additional moves the comments caught: *Main channel:* kzfaq.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/ *"Why did you exclude up specials without hitboxes?"* I cut this explanation out of the intro since it killed the pace of the video, but mostly because there are a lot of random bits of invincibility thrown all over the place on up specials, Sakurai loves doing that for some reason. Did you know that the Pits have 2 frames of invincibility randomly thrown onto the start of their up specials? Makes essentially zero impact on gameplay and makes it so that they don't really belong in a video like this, and if I'm gonna have that policy for some pure recovery moves I'd prefer to be as consistent as possible. *"Where are Foresight/Bat Within?"* Foresight is essentially Witch Time, which as a counter, wasn't included, so Foresight should also be excluded. If Foresight's gonna be excluded, then Bat Within should as well. *"You missed [x legitimate move]."* Then by all means let me know! Assembling this list took a very long time and a lot of double checking but I wouldn't be shocked if something slipped through the cracks somewhere, if I see a comment bring up a legitimate omission I'll add it to this pinned comment. Such as these ones: -Luigi's Green Missile: B tier, needs it for recovery but not thrilled about it and the misfire can be a blessing or a curse. -Robin's Nosferatu: A tier, the resource constraint is mostly a downside but it _can_ spawn an item for you and command grabs are some of the overall better moves in the game. -Piranha Plant's footstool attack: Yep, this one technically counts. Easy S tier.

Nobody was forcing you to include intangibility as well as invincibility in the criteria, but you did it anyway. More content for me though so I'm not complaining

Mii Gunner's Cannon Jump Kick is also the fastest spike in the game at frame 6 while still being almost as big as Ivysaur's DAir. I don't think this changes much on the rankings, especially since Mii Gunner can't go far at all off-stage to take advantage of it, instead having to rely on snuffing out recoveries directly below ledge to use it safely, but I just find it funny how this move out of all of them is the fastest spike in the game

I love how we live in a world where hour long MockRock videos are a semi-common occurrence

An interesting effect of Lucas' upsmash armour being frame 1 is that since it's a smash attack, you can cancel the startup with a jump, still get a bit of armour, and then do an aerial. I think i found this in an esam vid and idk how practical it actually is but imo it's pretty cool at the very least.

Oooooooooh something I hadn't actually considered for one of these! Not only am I excited for this video, but I'm extra excited for all the things in this vein that I haven't considered across the board! Top tier content as always! 😃

“I think if Roy had a better recovery move he would be a better character” nah I thought having a good recovery made a character worse

I wanted to let you know that D3's super jump can make it impossible for your opponent to 2 frame you if done properly. All you have to do is upB to the ledge and hold down on the stick as you do it. While that happens D3 won't grab the ledge and you let go as soon as he passes the ledge height. If done correctly invulnerability at ledge will start at frame 1 do to him grabbing above ledge height. The timing is quite tight, only have 2 frames to grab the ledge when you are above, after that you are invulnerable. Also wanted to note that if they do try to hit you they can only do damage. It is always better to take damage than to get edge guarded.

MockRock: "Let's start off with Mr. Invincible, King K. Rool" Kazuya: "Am I a joke to you?"

If there’s one thing I like about your tier lists MockRock, it’s the variety. It is focused on the fighters like many other tier lists, but adding in topics like the detailing of certain animations or even this video’s topic of invincibility brings a fresh mindset to these. Good work as always!

27:05 He really said "were do you think your going" and followed him down there.

I'm just glad that both my mains, corrin and Dark Pit got some recognition. Good tier list and I'm looking forward to the next one.

“Let’s start with Mr. invincible himself, King K. Rool.” What about the LINE OF KAZUYA

With Cannon Jump Kick, the fact that you can literally just go a small amount offstage and land a relatively safe spike if you use it correctly, combined with its insane KO power, gives me reason to believe it’s a very underrated move, it’s also not the worst recovery option since you can use forward air to boost yourself back to the stage. It’s also an insane OOS option. So that’s my argument for why Cannon Jump Kick is a great move

I love that for shulk's shield Monado art it's just "You wanna cheat?"

damn, you've found such a thorough amount of clips for exactly the situations you discuss serious props for that, nice video!

Since you included Palutena’s bair and dash attack, I think it would be fair to put Hero’s f-tilt in the list. I may be wrong, but his shield is invincible and possibly part of his arm, which is the same as Palutena’s moves.

MY GOD, that's a large tier list. Was half expecting an applause at the end. Super great effort!

Holy shit mockrock, honestly it’s so impressive that you cover all these subjects, in long form, edited extremely well and on your SIDE CHANNEL, that is genuinely inspiring. I love just watching these whenever I need something quick in the background and because they’re so long whenever it comes up in my recommended it’s like a whole other video as It’s not possible to finish all of it in one sitting

I know you already put nosferatu in the command grabs tierlist, but that move and some others have full body intangibility for some reason. It’s… practically never used, but really funny

Monado Arts give you intangibility on the ground which comes up fairly regularly. Top Shulk Players like Kome use that application a decent amount.

As a Bowser main with a K. Rool secondary and Pocket Mac I feel like I ate good this video. Amazing work as always man keep up the great and very detailed content (but please also make sure you rest up! I can only imagine the amount of work that these videos must take, especially for them to be this consistently high quality!)

bit late to mention it but there may have been room for an S+ level. considering the sheer quantity of S tier moves. There were quite a few that were 'unquestionable' "do-I-even-need-to-explain?" instant lock ins that could have been their own level above the ones that squeaked in or got in after consideration. Flip kick, Fire, Electric Wind God Fist, Monado > Sora D-Smash, Clown car dash, Thunder

I think a huge missed part about Lucas is the up smash cancel. He can cancel it while still having the invincibility which can help with anti airs imo bumps him up into a tier

i'm impressed you actually finished this instead of going 'fuck it, it's not worth it' at some point

I don't know who you are but I'm subbing because when you talk about a move you actually show the move being used in context unlike most smash KZfaqrs who are just randomly fighting a level 1 CPU.

As a Lucas main I was surprised that his upsmash was this high. Sure, it is strong and has a big hitbox but the startup and the end lag are so enormous that if your opponent sees it coming or if you miss, you get an insane punish. Basically worst Lucas move

Enjoyable list and something I hadn’t even considered! I wish you had included what every move had in terms of intangibility or armor bc for some moves I had genuinely no idea what about the move allowed it to be on the list or how that was a factor in the viability of the move, but you still put a lot of effort into the list so it’s really not a big deal. Looking forward to more quality content in the future!

You’ve been uploading a ton of long videos lately. I hope you’re not overworking yourself 👍

Now THAT is a broad selection. Good pacebreaker, looking forward to more animations tier lists hopefully on the horizon too

i love these ranking every move videos keep up the good work

I still think that your intro is absolutely flawless like it’s the only intro that is like a song playing in my head over and over

Had this video playing to get me through doing my laundry. I appreciate these types of videos for passing the time while doing more mundane tasks.

“Spinning Dragon to Left Hook” LMAO so that’s actually an error on Kazuya’s framedata page… (there are many errors there…) The name is actually “Spinning Demon to Left Hook” I wish I could edit the framedata page…

This ones gonna bop. Good job mock rock!!

Designated Incineroar main here to tell you that the armor on Alolan Whip is actually a very big deal even after landing the move. Command grabs tend have the problem of trading hit which means, more often than not, they’ll end up escaping the grab and you will be in disadvantage. Incineroar having armor on the move means that this will occur less often, it still happens, but in friendlies, people consistently ask me why they still got grabbed AFTER they hit me. The reason: armor happens one frame AFTER hit detection.

“I exclaim with extreme profanity that I cannot be harmed!” -Sundowner

Awesome video! Love it when you make these. Although I wouldn't ever describe DK side b as "stubby"

Random thing to bring up out of all the stuff mentioned, but I actually really like using sheik vanish as a kill move. I imagine it was better in smash 4 as an air dodge read, but you can still get air dodge reads in ultimate, and then if it would miss, I can angle somewhere else further away and be a lot less likely to be punished. I haven’t played sheik in a while but I think it takes a stock even before 100 on a lot of characters, although I might be wrong, so it’s really strong, and if it wouldn’t hit, you can get much further out of the way if you react fast enough.

This mans content is by far some of the greatest on KZfaq. I don’t have too many other friends that even know what smash bros is, but if I did the first thing I would bring up is MockRock. I could talk about why I love this channel for days without a break. Every single video is 10/10, and every time I see there’s a new video I always get happy. I even binge all the old videos constantly because the content is just amazing. S tier channels. S tier content. S tier content creator.

I usually don't watch most videos over 30 or so minutes but I end up watching alot of these long videos with most of my attention on it the entire time, looking forward to some more.

30:09 "Kind of stubby for DK standards." This move literally has the most range out of any of his grounded moves what? Edit: I forgot about dash attack but that's a burst movement option so eh

Side note on DK's side b: You can ledge snap with it for basically the entire duration of the move. I don't know how relevant this is at top level, but it's an option he has. One application I can think of is that there is a timer that prevents you from grabbing the ledge after getting hit, and since this move also stalls in the air, you can wait this timer out and grab ledge despite getting hit.

Never gonna get sick of these tier lists

Ive been waiting for a list like this for a long time, thanks; even if i do disagree with some of your placings as i usually do

1:25 I hope Vernias and King of skill will see this video

I think Dimensional Cape deserves a spot in S-Tier. It basically forces your opponent to shield, and the attacking version is unpunishable on shield if you do it while aiming for the ledge

Loved this! Invincible moves are probably one of my faves

really great analysis as usual! a handful of these factor in some shield breaks, which got me thinking. what if you analysed how well each character can break shields, or even ranked every move with notable shield damage?

Thank you for putting the music lists in your description

You spend a lot of time on this kind of stuff and I have a deep respect for you and your content

You put a lot of effort into these and I think thats awesome.

I dont know if you will ever do this, but having a series where you rank every move in order would be sweet. The tiers would be ordered and every move would be running against each other, and each episode could be 1 character to make it easier. I would binge that so quickly.

The thing about Pit and Falcon's side b, is that they're designed completely opposite of each other, and it baffles me why Pit's side b has armor that is active through the dash, but as soon as it detects something it will lose that armor since the detect animation has none, Falcon, does not have armor on the dash, but when he detects something, it activates. while i find that better designed, there are still times where it doesn't detect beforehand. its like they dont know what to do or are trying too hard to make similar moves different

I’m actually impressed you were able to edit this many moves to under an hour

I would've also included Ridley's Wing Blitz, which has intangibility on his wings and give Ridley some protection while moving through. Not the most reliable defense, but anything is welcome. The move itself is also a decent, if somewhat predictable recovery move, though offensively it's pretty underwhelming, unless you're either doing a kamikaze kill or his infamous down angled edge guard, which spikes the opponent and lets you grab the ledge to avoid an SD.

I came to the video to see where flashing mach punch was placed, but even if it's not here absolutely still worth the watch.

Oh yes, this will get me through the rest of the work day quite nicely

i think this is a very cool video but i also kinda thought it would be focusing on the invincibility the moves have more, the list feels like "ranking moves that have invincibility" (which i guess is the title) but i guess i would liked "how much does having invincibility help the move" in cases like if DK Up B/Palu Dash Attack where having armor/etc definitely makes the move work, where S-Tier would be like "invincibility makes the move what it is" and F-Tier would be "this move absolutely didn't need to have it, the invincibility is pure fluff or the move would still be amazing without it" but at the same time i do not think i'd want to subject you to making a second video with this very long list great video regardless!

Man you really went all out with this video!

Your videos makes me feel really smart even though I’m terrible at competitive smash. Thanks!

Mac's straight lunge defensive utility is really match up specific because it's percent based armor. Its fine against multi hit attacks but a lot of the cast have single hit aerials that would go right through it

Really love the use of Chemical Plant Modern in the video. Such an excellent track.

always funny how when channels talk about incineroar, they always have at least one clip of an incineroar with revenge doing 60%+ damage with one attack (with a zoom-in on the percentage)

Can we appreciate that during the review for WFT's up smash the background of the stage was doing the pose for it?

Amazing videos as always! My only critique with this video and past videos, is that you should put your microphone a little further. When you talk it makes that psh noise

It's really easy to just have these videos on in the background to hear about the various moves in Smash Bros.

I think you're underrating Min Min's up specials. ARMS Jump is a crucial tool in Min Min's vertical mobility, which she otherwise lacks in a major way. It goes just as high as both of her jumps while maintaining her double jump, so she can more effectively pressure opponents up high. As for ARMS Hook, it covers an area that is normally a blindspot for her, namely up and a little bit in front or behind her. The fact that it travels the whole distance and stops when it hits something is great, because you don't have to space it for the sweetspot like Ivysaur or Joker. Plus, it gets a serious buff from the Dragon ARM's boost from grabbing an opponent, killing quite early as an edgeguard tool. Given the weaknesses you mentioned, I would put them both in B Tier.

The pits side B can also be a good anti-air punish against characters committing to landing with aerials

@mockrocktalk love all you tier list videos. What program/site do you use to actually build the tier list?

my favorite dark pit rep always giving the most ELITE content

I think there's a reasonable argument to include Bowser's Dair in this list due to the shell, but you did a wonderful job with the list and I love the content you put out!

39:14 cracking up at how pissed fatality was to lose his stock here. He is absolutely fed up with elegant's cheese

Another thing about Sheik's Up Special is that... When you reappear it has a windbox! In certain situations it can be used to push would be edge guarders off the ledge and put them into freefall (Like Lucas/Ness if they're close and use PK Thunder). Niche for sure, and low-mid gameplay level only I'm sure, but still cool.

For plant its also a really good ledge stall and recovery mix up especially when you short it and you get stronger invincibility when you're turning, even though that also makes it more commital.

Would you consider making a tier list on non-traditional input moves or miscellaneous moves? Like Foresight, any command inputs, Plant's spotdodge attack, etc.

yet another nice tier list. thanks.

Quick thing regarding Ikes eruption: afaik you get the superarmor at half charge already, but only in the release animation, not while charging. This means its good against beefy up bs or just moves that hit above ledge and can be used against ledge attack. At half charge its also an instant shieldbreak, but thats very niche. Its actually an insane edgeguarding tool on its own. Its active for 7 frames and hits way below the ledge. If youre character has a reactable up b, you die so early. Corrin for example can really struggle against that. The only reason its not used more is that you can get true ledge attack punished for it if you miss which means you loose your ledgetrap, and Ikes ledgetrap is really strong.

13:42 | I would say this deserves at least B-tier. The move has full-body invincibilty from FRAME 5 to frame 14 (frame 14 being the last frame he has full-body invincibility). After that, his legs and arms have I-frames for 2 frames, ending with just his arms having i-frames for 3 more frames. I am not a Kazuya main, but I play him a lot for fun, and there have been many times where I have used this move and it has saved me from a hit. Saved me a stock a few times actually. The move is rather unsafe on shield, which is why I don't think it is A-tier, but I do believe that B-tier is fair for it having i-frames for a long time before the attack comes out along with the fact that this move kills Byleth at 117%, a character who is lighter than average. There are also many ways you can combo into this using EWGF and Nair. I'm not saying this is a great move, but I personally think that C-tier is slightly harsh.

this is an awesome video that i think more people should see

This video taught me that Kazuya has so many moves I've never used. Then again, I'm a very casual offline only player, but I do play him a fair amount. Gonna try to find a tutorial somewhere to really let these CPU's have it.

Corrin's pin is one of the most fun moves in the game and basically just arial forward smash if you can land the tipper consistently.

I dont know if you're aware, but for lucas' upsmash, you can cancel it with a jump in the first few frames which grants you a bit of invicibility while jumping (like 3-4 frames)

Always a good day when MockRock uploads

30:09 Never thought I would hear DK's Headbutt called "stubby" despite how many times it's hit and buried way farther than it should. 32:36 Honestly, me neither. Been maining Pichu ever since Joker dropped and I had no idea Down Smash was invincible. It still doesn't make up for sometimes not working if the opponent gets hit in certain parts of the move.

Love the tier list videos, but I gotta ask where magic burst was, that move also has invincibility for the entire duration

Kirby's hammer hits ledge and 2 frames and hits fast enough to react to every ledge option for free. Also, the double spin with a jump leaves you on platform

Wii fit trainer holding piranha plant is so funny to me omg

oh yeah, time to be that Lucas main advocating for up smash. I saw some people mentioning the ability to cancel it, but that only gives a one or two frame window, which isn't really humanly feasible. Where it's really useful is out of shield, since you can use it to true punish multi-hit attacks like cross slash and Pyra's spinny thing. Plus it's one of the only moves to abuse the unique hitstop properties of invincibility.

My day is made when ever you upload

Some stuff that isn't talked about dolphin slash is that it's extremely comittal and has an incredibly small hitbox. Also in recovery, it has limited horizontal range and has a ridiculously tight snapping window making their recovery susceptible to deeper edge guards and very predictable.

17:41 This is a really good point that reminds me of a question I've long had: if one were theoretically able to swap a character's "worst" or at least most controversial moves, which other moves would be most applicable? Ya know, ignoring the potentially weird animation of having a character model adapt to a certain movement that might not match. Like, Piranha Plant here; which other down B in the game would be "best" for utility vs "most fitting" to the character's design? And what would be other good examples of other characters that would benefit way more with another character's moveset?

This whole video is one big eerie eye opener for which moves have invincibility

Great Video!

Roy's hit box may extend past his head but not past his arm. a lot of characters can just run off nair to either trade or out right beat blazer. It also has a bad snapping window with roy's arm often extending well above the ledge

26:28 OMG I NEVER THOUGH I'D SEE THAT CLIP FROM ONE OF ALBINO'S VIDEOS AGAIN LMFAO

Half the reason a lot of Kazuya's moves are S-tier is their synergy with Electric Wind God Fist. That's just how good that move is.

How about a spike tier list? Basically a tier list ranking every spike, if a character has one.

30:01 that's my new favorite kill screen.

Mii Brawler’s Flashing Mach Punch has 59 frames of true full-body invincibility if the full move is activated by the first few hits. The invincibility doesn’t matter that much in a 1v1, since the opponent needs a way to hit you (explosives, a returning projectile, or a puppet), but it does decent damage, kills relatively early, and is pretty easy to set up into. It is -30, which sucks, but it also has a fair chance at shield poking if you aim at the head. Brawler also has their diet Flip Kick in Feint Jump. Feint Jump is actually a decent move, but it’s super frustrating compared to Flip Kick in terms of total invincibility, endlag, setups, etc. Basically all FJ is used for is to recover and get out of disadvantage. Intangibility starts earlier than ZSS but there are only three frames of it, and the move has years of landing lag, so you need to make sure you use it high, you’re far from your opponent when you land, or hit them with it. The attack portion can kill and gives you decent mixup opportunities, but again you have to deal with the lag if you whiff.