My thoughts exactly!

Actually it's the deflect the blade if a competitor tries a "late hit"

Yup Daniel Monaco your absolutely right. That's been practiced ever since ancient times , mostly during regulated tournaments for honor and reward(coin) , but of course if it was a lethal personal duel to the death then no ref was needed lmao

*Bonk*

The “Bitch be good” stick

yes absolutely thats what came to my eyes as well. better than 99% out there from camera-work perspective.

+n0lsk1 When Navi is in your corner: "HEY! LISTEN! WATCH OUT!"

whoa dude chill tf out. don't get on the internet if you're going to take things that seriously lol i was pointing out the tiny margain of error these guys work with

I don't doubt that but let them fence without the constant commentary, honestly it would distract me more than help me.

Holy fuck dude did you forget to tip your fedora and blow your vape? Jesus chill out dude.

Aldito Hernandez No I'm referring to the other guy in here calling people "uneducated swines" in 2016

Because Fencing has a bit more to it than wave two pieces of metal around and then slap at each other. I know it sounds bad but I always wish to like these but it takes a minute of them walking around and then they flail at each other and its over. there arent any ralleys. I guess its like Tennis that only has serves, not all that fun. This is better than the Olympic Sabre though.

madworldfan123 Modern Fencing is electrified tag, this is actual fencing representing real techiniques to cut and thrust with a rapier and dagger as opposed to recklessly lunging and both people dying from fatal stab wounds seconds apart from bastardized smallsword injuries. To your eyes it may look like flailing because you clearly have no idea of anything beyond fencing and have obviously not researched anything about real medieval swordfighting.

I think your sentiment is partially correct, as an ex-fencer it is a very fine art, no its perhaps not practical in the historic sense, but it require incredible skill and athleticism. As for the HEMA style fighting, im really interested in it and can appreciate how the fights are likely more true to the historic nature, both from training and from the aspect of fights were not drawn out, if you got hit with the blade that was likely the end of you. Both have their place and are very interesting, its hard for people to track the action, especially on video of HEMA fights because the points happen very fast, and often in a blur of motion vs fencing which is more like chess and there are loud buzzers so you know what happened lol.

@@RandomAllen And it appears you have not researched anything about fencing, historical or modern. For one thing, this is renaissance swordfighting, not medieval. Second, if a fencer were to "recklessly lunge" in sport foil or epee, it's unlikely they will get the point, it's a bad idea no matter what weapon you fence. Saber is a slightly different matter, but even sabreurs have some sort of plan when fencing. To your eyes, it may look like recklessly lunging because you clearly have no idea of anything beyond KZfaq and have obviously not researched anything about fencing.

@@matthewpham9525 just curious whose @Redman A ?

+MariusThePaladin with all respect to Hans Jornlind, the red guy is Axel Petterson, period. And forget the anime, manga or whatever... this...is...HEMA! ;)

+MariusThePaladin Ganbate!! Red-kun sempai!!

+Xeno it may be weebish but is anime and anime makes everything better.

lmao i click the time you posted look in the background and there is some dude getting taken away on a stretcher lol "not a good day at all"= \

Lmao xD

The Battle-Axe Semi-Final went a bit awry....

Two men enter one man leave

Lol that ain't good.

Definitely! Not helpful usually.

I would let her manage me any way she liked.

I mean, he's clearly the more skilled fighter of the two here, so he's probably good enough to need micromanaging

I have had PLENTY experience as a sport Fencer, HEMA Fighter, freestyle wrestler and competitive amateur Boxer with 20+ bouts. Shouting out coaching during the bout is disruptive, distracting unfair and ungentlemanly. The Coaching advice should be kept to the rest period, not during the bout. She should know better than that.

PalookaD that is just your opinion

Yes it is...its also the opinion of a large number of posters on this upload as well!

PalookaD really doesnt deligitimize the fact that if the fencer didnt want her there she wouldnt be there. xD its not any of you in the ring

My guess is rules that are too subjective and based on opinion and context to simulate reality rather than concrete rules for a game. People want an easy to understand sport with concrete rules with black or white outcomes. In Olympic fencing, the first touch is a point, no ifs ands or buts. In real combat, a thrust or cut may incapacitate your enemy immediately, within 1 second, within 1 minute, in 1 month, or perhaps never. The struck organ(s), general health of the combatant, adrenaline levels, overall blood volume, wound shape, etc. are all variables that cannot be ethically tested that relate to your ability to continue fighting. For this reason, HEMA schools host tournaments with rules that rarely match and nothing about HEMA as a sport is consistent or black and white.

@@typorad I think you're close to the answer; exchanges are too fast and the rules designed to simulate actual combat too numerous for the average spectator to follow/care about. I'm a firm believer that HEMA is a martial art first and a sport second for this reason. Olympic fencing has been rendered into stark black and white simplicity for the sake of sport. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but I think the authenticity of the martial art should never be sacrificed to make HEMA more "sporty".

I am new to sword and dagger fighting and I totally agree with you on mid-match coaching. It is a huge distraction, not only to the fighter, but also to the audience who are immersed in the duel. Her comments took me out of the match.

you are dumb! and clearly haven't fenced a tourney!!!!

Exactly

There were duels that were just to first blood.

+Bryan Wheelock Oh, wow

That tells you a lot about Olympic Fencing and how it's so different from real swordfighting.

well fighting with guns not particularly safer or less scary

+Bryan Wheelock Not really, rapier were usually carrying for duel and self defence.

1 point for a valid hit, but the opponent has a short amount of time to score a hit themselves before the exchange is stopped. This simulates real duelling where the killing blow was often not an instantaneous death and the opponent already had the momentum behind a swing, so a duellist would need to strike and then immediately defend themselves. There are a total of 10 exchanges or however many fit into 3 minutes, whichever is shortest, and whoever has the most points wins.

No doubt it's useful, but it should be redundant. As a coach your student should be fully prepared for the match; you fail as an instructor if they need you as a crutch.

​@@SwordTune No student can be fully prepared for a match as they are students. They need guides even during matches. If it's allowed I don't see why they shouldn't use the option.

@@SwordTune Well, the best competitive fighters need and use support from outside, so do any other professional athletes. Do boxers fight on their own? No, they don't. Neither do MMA fighters, they have people in their corner giving advice and encouragement and analysing their opponent during each round to give feedback between the rounds. Are they ill prepared?

@@Extremoyseco If it's allowed, of course they can use it to their advantage. But it shouldn't be allowed if we want to only see the progress of the student.

@@Nazdreg1 If the fighter relies on his corner man, then yes, they are ill prepared. Between two fairly matched fighters, it should be the fighters who hold themselves up, not their coaches.

+Johan Jartelius the biggest difference is the weight of the weapons and the available space to the left and right. but the principle of sticking them with the pointy end is the same. i personally prefer team fights as opposed to 1v1, it changes the fight dramatically. ^_^

I know, but it is also one of the main critiques offered from HEMA-practitioners of sports fencing that the moves are too "unrealistic", is this not now a case in the above clip as well?

+Johan Jartelius HEMA practitioners and fencers are both proud and closed minded about other forms of sword arts. in reality, its the same game with different tools, and the different tools call for different tactics. both are limited because of their primary focus is on the 'duel' environment, and no one tries to account for the ever shifting nature of warfare.

+Don Hearto Fully agree with you. This doesnt look much different than "steam" epee with judges (ie the way we used to do sport fencing in the club in 1960's and early 70's) apart form having a weapon in the left hand and fencing in a square rather than a strip.

Then weapon is something like 2-3 times heavier, the target is the full body, and grappling and disarms are legal (although unlikely to happen due to the offhand weapon). I don't see what makes the fighting "unrealistic" given that the weapons they are using were historically meant for the duel.

I believe there are historical examples of rapiers with this style of hilt... They might be more practical than the fancier twisted designs...

not if you prearranged with her to say the opposite of what she means every other shout.

Never watched a boxing match before?

¿Es destreza española? Lo digo por que se mueven en circulos mas que de atras hacia delante. Corrijanme si me equivoco.

@@alejandrollerena3457 se perdió el arte de la verdadera destreza, se está recuperando con textos...a saber, lo cierto es que la esgrima lineal es la francesa de duelo, la española era utilizando todo, guantes, capa, broquel, ropera y misericordia y según los manuales, se utilizaba una esfera para estudiar los movimientos

@@TheCota700 vi algunos videos de destreza creo que utilizan los manuales y movimientos de esgrima actual para rellenar los vacios que pudiesen haber.

@@alejandrollerena3457 Supongo, yo estudie esgrima olímpica en el INEF de Madrid, que es lineal y posición lateral, todo es nuevo

+James Leslie so that judges can show to whom they want to give points

+lendondain1 I see where your coming from. Myself and many others, possibly the judges & observers there even, do find it distracting though when trying to focus on the fight. Mostly though I think the fight should be left to the two combatants without people interrupting them. (Asides from the judges obviously because that's necessary.) I think the coaching advice should be left for after they are done with the engagement.

Yes, but if you want your student to be a good fencer, you can't be the brain and let them be the weapon. If your fencer isn't mentally prepared to think and act quickly and decisively in a bout, to change their approach if their original strategy doesn't work, and to analyze their own mistakes after every action, while fencing, then you've failed as a teacher because they have to be able to stand on their own. You wouldn't send your student into a fencing bout if they were still on crutches from a training injury, would you? So why would you send them into a competition if their mind still needs a coach as a crutch?

Throwing your arm back means you can recover from a lunge quicker, which is likely his goal. The fencing presented here is pretty terrible otherwise, but that’s hardly the main reason.

+Apocalyptic Knights Probably his wife. ._.

+Apocalyptic Knights His coach? No matter how skilled you get, having an extra pair of eyes to keep you honest and aware is never a bad thing. If he really wanted, he could have opted out of having someone coach him during the match but he obviously wanted someone there to do so.

***** Her calls are simply bad. She seems to be more annoying than helpful.

Apocalyptic Knights​ How so? You want calls to be simple and assertive or it won't be understood or be too complicated to think about. When I compete in MMA or grappling and side coaching is allowed then commands like "keep your guard up!" help remind me if I am getting lazy or careless or "pass the guard!" let me know if I am not taking an opportunity that is available maybe because they can see my opponent loosened their guard and I didn't. What would you prefer a side coach to say if you had one? Granted many prefer to not have one and find them distracting, others find it helpful and motivating.

i saw her on some tournaments being the ref(?) with the stick/staff, don't know the right definitions.

in every combat sports competitions fighters have coaches who yell all the time during the fight, i guess the other competitor could have his own coach too

+Jake Williams Von Starcher its bloody distracting. Its like me playing in a piano competition and having my teacher shouting out things from the audience. If I had been the person fencing I would have politely asked her to let me do my thing in peace and quiet. We had people like that at school who would shout to their kids or pupils during the fencing matches and they were always asked to either be quiet or leave.

+Jake Williams Von Starcher also- loving your passive-aggressiveness. You might want to get that checked out at the doctors :)

+Alexander Bliss She's a coach, and a very respected fencer, that's why Axel has her in his corner. It's perfectly within rules and I don't think the piano comparison is fair, piano playing and martial arts are very different practices. And any perceived passive-aggressiveness is beyond what I intended in the original post. Although I'm not sure why that would require a doctor visit.

Jake Williams Von Starcher I also told you about the situation with our own fencing club, which is a comparison adequate. Respected or not, when the bout is in play, the coach shuts up and the student does their thing. Its a soccer mom mentality. When play stops after each point is scored, then the coach may discreetly advise. But shouting random things while the fencing is going on? A distraction. More people on here have commented in favour of my argument than yours, thus your argument is sadly less in favour and wrong. Good evening.

Totally agree

+Matityah I was hoping she would stfu already lmao

+Matityah If some chamber maid back in the day would have been nagging during the duel....

+Self Stirring Pot ...she would have been paid and/or asked to do it again in the next bout. That was the competitors side coach who was asked to give advice during the match to expand their awareness and keep them fighting at their best. It's not unheard of. In some sports and venues it is banned but a lot allow and even encourage it.

+Self Stirring Pot What an idiot you are.

Francisco Arana >slap< pistols or swords?

You've seen the continuous fencing? I've only seen the longsword version tho

I know this is an old post but I can't resist. In medieval times the man that oversaw training, melees, or duels(mostly training) would have a staff so he could stop the fight by putting it in the middle of the brawl. A long staff so he wouldn't get cut.

The point of the dagger is to act as a parrying device, or to bind the opponents blade to clear the line for your own attacks. With the dagger withdrawn and held back, it can be more difficult to do that. Two examples from Capoferro; www.bibliorare.com/wp-content/uploads/villanfray-associes-livres-autographes-manuscrits-jeudi-2-avril-14h-drouot-salle-12-paris-/65.jpg , www.aemma.org/onlineResources/capoferro/images/capoferro_2.jpg

the rapier is both a slashing and thrusting weapon. Heavy on the thrusting part though.

Please keep your mouth shut on things you know nothing about and how about getting a little educated instead of learning about weapons from a fucken video game?

Aldito Hernandez you mean like being an active hema practitioner?

satyrulak you don't even have to be a HEMA practitioner all you have to do is do a little reacerch on the weapon itself myarmoury.com

Aldito Hernandez didnt know if you were replying to me or the guy before me. As far as i know rapiers also cut. to either wound the opponent or displace the blade.

+thibaud33ful I think it seems that way, because we don't have the same angle of vision as the judges, letting them see hits we couldn't see. Besides, there were rounds with 0 points.

Red does actually have a psychological advantage

nah just them hauling out their gear.

Last match’s loser

+PalookaD Well, its more modern fencing habit than unsporting...but surely annoying and should be forbiden...

+PalookaD How is it "unsporting" when it's obviously a coach or a trainer who's giving him instructions? That's the most "sporty" as it can get.

+Haphazy Totally disagree. Its banned in Olympic and Pro Boxing, Fencing and a whole host of other combat sports. Coaches comments are to be kept for the periods between rounds.

+codopicichces For sure! But its not allowed in modern fencing either!

+PalookaD I know, she should not be allowed to constantly be whittering like that. Save it for half-time or something. Good work but there's too much 'start-stop' BS going on.

+GdzieJestNemo I think that they are using lighter rapiers than fabris/capoferro weight rapiers

+Michal Kajaba they look light imho as well.

hahah!

+Yugan Dali It's called point sparring and variants of it exist in various hand to hand martial arts, especially in Taekwondo. It is a means of judging the accuracy of each individual technique but as you have pointed out, it does have the drawback of eliminating momentum and combinations from the equation.

+DamienZshadow Thanks.

Yugan Dali You're welcome!

The point in these sorts of competitions is that they break when contact to a body is made with a weapon. They are awarded points based on whether or not they made a sufficient hit. The point is that if you make a strike like that with live weapons, the fight is over and you killed your opponent. Here, they end each engagement when what would probably be a killing blow is made.

I see, although the strike to the knee in the beginning is hardly lethal! Thanks for your answer.

Yep - its a disgrace

Girlish Goat You forgot the combatant could've brought his own coach. If it's allowed it's allowed.

lmao I'm sure you would know

@@matthewpham9525 I certainly dont need to list my credentials to some idiot commenter. But Im glad you felt the need to degrade something you know zero about. Keep on keyboard proselytizing though ,got to do something in your moms basement.

@@thecocktailian2091 You don't got credentials to list, you're just some armchair warrior clinging onto arbitrary definitions of shit to feed your superiority complex. But damn, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, a good half of the shit you said should have been coming from me. "Keyboard proselytizing" "This is not rapier and dagger" "Sportified" Funny.

Oh yeah!

lol, thats Kristine Konsmo, one of the best rapier fencers out there x'D

Who should really know better and keep her trap shut during the bout.

satyrulak kristine konsmo

Mohawkology Funnily enough he probably hired her specifically to yap about. It's called side coaching.

Actually, the rapier was a cut and thrust sword, and all historical styles of Rapier included cuts. You are probably thinking of the smallsword or the modern sport fencing epee/foil.

Clearly someone who knows jack shit about swords or fencing.....

+Ed Masterson You are also pretty dumb if you think anyone's critique was about the fact that his coach is a woman.

+Picurs Yeah - totally agree, its nothing to do with gender, its to do with STFU!

+Ed Masterson The issue isn't her gender, it's just damn annoying to listen to.

It probably doesn't have to do with sex for you and those who agree with you. For others, it might.