As soon as you hit a bump or the rear end twisters you put a twist in the chain and it's going to pop right off.

The chain will run off the rear sprocket when it articulates side to side man

this is some amazing engineering build without a crazy budget. and i am convinced he is gonna tear it all apart and redo it if it doesnt work. more people should be this honest and hardworking. you do you chris, keep it up

Front steer. Put the steering head tube inside/ under the frame so the steering horn sticks up. Gives you several inches to lower the engine

Chris , I love the way you fabricate. I've been following you since you were a very young man building go carts. You made your own lathe and Richard saw you potential and gave you his. You're a gifted young man and I have learned a lot from you.

I really want you to TRY A PROJECT with a Citroen 2cv suspension philosophy. It will be epic project and this suspension was built for those hard trails you looking for

Pretty sure that when it articulates the sprockets won't line up correctly and you'll lose the chain.

Chains gonna be droppin like it’s hot

You need a panhard bar for that type of rear design. It will allow all the movement and will make the rear suspension strong.

Unlike everyone else mentioning the chain, I'm going to once again hand you a solution for it: *De-Dion axle rear suspension.* Specifically, *attach it via a Satchell Link* so you don't need a trackbar/Panhard bar or Watts-link to go with it. You should theoretically be able to use the "2 link" suspension on De-Dion, also it's called "radius rod" btw. But the beauty of the Satchell Link is that only the lower bars are triangulated (at the frame side, all 4 bars are wide on the axle side), so you'd get your clearance on each side for the seat just fine.

Do a y link around the seat connected to the middle of the rear axle, parallel lower arms. Simple design should get you everything you need. Also going to have to limit the travel to keep the chain from popping off when articulated.

There's a reason you dont see this design. It will place incredible loads on the heims, especially the side with the axle attached. just imagine the forces on that single attachment point the first time you toss it sideways in a power slide... I fear you will have a lot of problems getting it stiff enough to allow chain drive. That said, simpler should be better if it does work. If it does not work, why not simply add two more links with attachment above these and use 4 links. Both sides will be outside of seat so it should still work like you want...Also might work with seriously beefy attachment points and a panhard bar or watts link/cross link to keep it centered?

The rear suspension you are attempting is called a 3‐link or y-link. It will move side to side a bit because the front joints will flex some. Thats why you dont see it. You need at least a 3 link at a diagonal to the chassis to keep the side to side movement to a minimum. At least thats what weve found in the off-road world. This is definitely a great build!

It WILL WORK!! NOTE: Use a spring loaded chain tensioner with a ball bearing 3”wheel that all custom swing arm drag ATV use! I believe cascade innovations-drive line performance-sand toyz unlimited ECT has them

Basically the kind of rear suspension you're going for would be based off the mini trophy karts that kids race. They run a solid live axle that has some pivot up and down like a real truck axle would, but chain driven.

Videos need to be longer.. love this channel.. But as soon as I get really into it the video is over!!

I've really grown to enjoy this channel since happening upon one of your projects a while backand I'm honestly not sure if my favorite thing is the audacity of your projects, your obvious fabrication talent, or the fact that you learned to speak by studying old timey radio news broadcasts.

I know the chain should give you the twist you want but you could also put a universal joint on the jack shaft so it moves with it👍

Dude, that suspension design is so effin cool!!! I sure hope it works! You need to get yourself an RC rock crawler so you can experiment with/ test suspension designs on a mini scale before welding stuff up. Plus RC rock crawlers are super fun 😎🤙🏽

It's almost 11p.m here in kenya 🇰🇪,this is the best video to wind me down to Slumber land..👌🏼👍🏻

I've been day dreaming up the same build; and reached the same conclusion on the rear suspension. Through ALOT more than 45 mins of research I found the name of the suspension style is radius arm. I think of it as a cross between a lateral 4-link and ladder bars.

Everyone keeps saying the chain will come off straight away but remember this isnt a rock crawler so no huge amounts of articulation. Small medium articulation movements wont affect the chain at all as there is enough distance between the two sprokets. In saying this i do believe it will need a sway bar or some sort of articulation limiter.

I'm sure Chris already has a solution for the chain. Guys, have some faith 😂 there's options out there.

That rear suspension is genius!! Man u r such an inspiration, great job!! But it still needs some designing and experiments

I am full in with the 2 link, cant wait to see how it works

Amazing suspension engineering, it will be quite interesting to see how that rear end goes, I’m sure it will be fine 👌🏻

That suspension is so cool and creative

more people should be this honest and hardworking. you do you chris, keep it up

You can make a swing arm with the chain drive, you can mount the engine on the swing arm, or you can figure out how to use a drive shaft. Red Beard built an independent rear suspension by mounting the engine on the rear suspension assembly.

Rule of thumb! If the vehicle performs fine with a locked rear end, then it'll perform fine with bump steer! Look at twin i-beam offroad vehicles. They have huge amounts of bump steer, but in low traction applications it really doesn't matter much. Ditto Ackerman and scrub radius. Offroad vehicles it really doesn't matter. What's more important is keeping the wheels on the ground.

Many unique ideas fail and succeed. Thank you for clearly showing the process and results. An exceptional creator. Things that have been done before are boring.

Dude you've got a voice that I just love listening to. So glad you made a KZfaq channel bro. I'm gonna sit back and watch you work magic🪄🧙‍♂️ Welding wizard is at work 👌

Love that you try things even if they aren’t proven or for sure going to work- that’s what makes it fun and interesting to watch. It’s also cool that you have goals and constraints for the build going in that force creative thinking. Can’t wait to see how it pans out.

NASCAR uses that type of suspension. It’s also found in 67 through 72 Chevy trucks the trick to make it work is it has to have a pan hard bar and the rear will be one solid piece mounted to the end of both links

15:26 I absolutely love that train of thought brother in my head I think it will work I can't find anyone else doing bit so it leads me to believe nobody's done it and it won't work but I'm going to try it anyway lol love it

You COULD do 4-link, where you have two large trailing arms, but the top links can be small and spaced out. It doesn't need to be as triangulated as you think, as if the trailing arms are parallel and the top links are triangulated, that'll keep the axle stable. You can have the top links connect closer together on the axle, and farther apart on the frame like normal systems are, but your top links can be shorter. All that does is turn the axle forward and backward during travel, which shouldn't be an issue for this type of build Hope this helps!

Omg yes! Linkage arm steering...... This is going to be awesome. I couldn't envisage what you were describing in your previous video; now it all makes sense! Those A arms with minimal bump steer is such an ingenious design! Well done👍 Love it already

what I would have done Chris was to allow them both to swivel with rose joints then fit a diagonal panhard rod across to the frame to stop the side-to-side movement that would work for sure allowing you full articulation on both sides what you have done was incorporate the Panhard rod with the swivel stoping some articulation on that side where there is no longer a swivel joint I hope it works but I think a Panhard rod diagonally across would work better and stop any side to side movement fingers crossed it works mate. all the best from John from Rugby UK.

I'm trying to remember when you left us the last time. if you had the front suspension completed or not. if not it appears that you built the front suspension off camera. it's no big deal since it's a pretty basic single control arm setup. but I just couldn't remember if you had completed the front suspension or not. and it's okay if you do some things off camera. since you are really good at showing great detail. on the work you do for us on camera. on four link rear suspension the panhard bar is what holds the rear differential/axle centered in the frame. and on race cars the panhard bar is made adjustable at each end. to account for body/frame roll to keep both sides of the rear axle planted. for the most traction and not lifting one or the other rear tire from the ground. however there could be a couple of problems that I can see with this rear suspension design? one is when the rear suspension is at it's lowest travel position. it might cause the chain to interfere with the seat. say if you go over a jump? when it lands is when this issue will be most prevalent. and the second problem may be when hard cornering to the left? it might cause the rear of the vehicle to kick out. causing a loose condition when the right rear wheel hits a bump. but this is dependant on suspension travel. and where the bottom and the top of the the travel start and stop. and it might work out to be not very noticable. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I like your rear suspension concept, I say finish it out and see how it feels when you drive it.

For articulating rear end, your rear sprocket needs to be at the centerline of the axle. Multi-link that is used in cars like the Alfa Romeo Spyder are simple and do what you want. Even a pan hard rod that is used in cars like the Fiat Spider are good enough.

Search Watt's Link, Jacobs Ladder, Panhard Bar, Wishbone, and Triangulated 4 Link. You could easily add a wishbone on top that goes around the seat to mount to the frame having a single rod end in the center of the axle. it will not move side to side and it won't bind.

That suspension arm look perfect for this project, simple and effective. But the tabs holding the ball joints are too small and fragile in my opinion.

I think the main difference to the 4 links will be the bending moment on the tubes. In the 4 links you only have longitudinal forces so you can use lighter tubes.

This works great 05 gsxr1000 trophy kart with the same suspension as what you’re building works great,it’s been built for the last couple years. Just add aswaybar.

18:43 maybe I’m not understanding, but how is the chain supposed to stay on if the rear articulates?

That suspension is so cool, I really like how it drops the seat height and center of gravity.... That would be really nice w/ an electric motor and a big battery. 😁👍

Unless you put heavy chain tensioner on top and bottom it’s going to chuck chains all day long!chains don’t like to be twisted.

This rear axle that you are manufacturing reminds me of the mini trophy trucks or truggy that are on the market, but the difference is that the transmission passes through the center of the axle and not on the side.

the name of that rear suspension is simply a swingarm. Think chain drive sport ATV. Replace that other spherical joint with a hinge. I love your channel dude!

Tip: try to avoid stepping up drill sizes as much as possible. Large drills need a pilot hole since the tip won't bore easily, but once you clearance out for the tip, then go straight to your final size. Especially on those big boy drills. Stepping up puts all the wear on the outside corners leading to excessive wear and wandering issues. Those large bits are hundreds of dollars and you don't want to chip corners or have to have them sharpened constantly.

I see a lot of chain coming off comments below, and you need to remember that problem is a simple easy fix with chain GUIDES to keep flappy chain on the sprocket. Should not even require a tensioner if pivot point is fairly close. It's not a rock crawler, like he said, and it won't have nearly the same travel. This is not his first chain drive rodeo!

Red beard had a big go cart called the Duece, where it mounted in the middle of the chasis. But that was a rear mounted engine, so the engine moved with the rear end and axel. Just do rear A arms, with the sprocket drives going through the middle of the go cart. Therefore your sprocket stays in a fixed position. Keep up the good work

This is the kinda stuff we wanna see 🙏🏻 I used to go to pull and save up in spokane a lot when I was a kid. Theres many many wonderful things you can build from junkyard parts. That would be rad to build your own Ariel atom style car

I wonder if put the engine sideways and use a propshaft and bevel gear in the axle would work and give you a bit more room

Love your work!! Not wild about the setup. As you said, it’s gonna be fast. I myself am not wild about chains whipping around the jewels or main arteries in my legs!! I’d rather see seating position moved forward, center your mass more. Rear engine I think would be safer and easier.

For your 2 link, look up g wagen suspension. You need to have 2 mount points on your axle per side, one in front and one further back. The arm should curl under or over the axle a bit. It won't prevent side to side movement ans with your heim joints up front it'll still move. One way to prevent some of it would be to use leaf spring bushings or make a delrin/brass wide bushing to your front point and have heims on the rear points to allow side to side travel

Not sure in the US, but practically all FWD European cars use a variant that suspension. Yours is a Trailing arm suspension, most of those cars use a Semi-trailing arm one. The diference is that the semi trailing ones pivot on two points in an angle instead of one. It makes them stronger. For pure trailing arms like yours, is always recomendable to add a panhart (An articulated bar from the chasis on the top on one side, to the axle on the bottom on the other) so the load of the bumps is not that high on the front joints.

I would love to see torque arm rear suspension. It would match the front and be simpler than this, i think. Love the work.

That rear suspension is typically called a radius arm suspension. It comes factory on the front of some pickups and is used a lot on hot rods.

Try a three link with track bar design. The links don't even need to be triangulated if its got a track bar.

Very interesting idea. I love how you do a real life test of brainstorming. I am interested to seee how you keep your chain aligned to the driven sprocket.

The rear suspension looks like a hybrid between a 3-link and a torsion beam. If it were me, I'd be tempted to do a torsion beam, so the rear suspension would basically have a built-in sway bar.

I'm very interested to see if the rear works good! It's turning out really cool so far, c&c better watch out!

It’s crazy how much work you get done in 20 minutes! Go karts! 👍

The style of swing arm your making Chris is a solid pan hard bar. Its used when the engine is attached to the swing arm. Will be interesting to see how it works set up the opposite way.

I think the rear is like a three link mashed with a four link 3+4=2 I guess it adds up lol…. I am really intrigued to see how he makes the chain work with the twisting

Looking great chris , I think it will work , if not no biggie your building it all custom,Just another change & time . Being creative is always good .

A panhard will swing on an arc side to side a little. It looks like it'll only shift to one side during extreme articulation. You won't be going fast and won't notice the movement imo

Ran 2 link modified dirt cars for many years and always had to run a j bar and a pull bar. Much lower power applications here so it’s going to be interesting

You could also put the joints on the axle and have vertically moving hinges on the frame

even with the seat i recon you could fit a watts link behind it. can be done in two configureations, but having centre mounts going to the links at either end means better roll center adjustment, and it eliminates that side to side movement you have, and would still have witha panhard or radious bar setup. the two fixed bars instead of 4 link would still work with it too

I've heard you talk about asking your dad for advice and I don't know whether you've ever introduced the channel to your father but I imagine he has got to be supremely proud of how good you've become at this

This project is awesome Chris may want to think about camber in the front articulation but I think the upper control arms would have to tuck under the frame like a checkmark in order to pivot inward slightly which I think would pivot off the frame rail and the tip of the short span of the checkmark then “v” down and reach up to the top of the spindle right in between the lower control arm

Pretty much works as a four link does but doesn't have to retain a pinion angle for drive shaft so i dont see an issue as long as you can get the chain guide attached to the rear axle bottom only top will be under tension and just needs some guide at top of jack shaft side

If you build a simple motorcycle type swing arm there will be no comfort problem if the rear wheels are less apart than at the front. And it will help cornering without differential.

I wonder if you could weld your drive sprocket on the outside of a CV joint or some other splined ball joint, and so allow the sprocket to articulate with the rear arm. Also, you could use your jack shaft as the rear suspension pivot to keep chain length constant.

Most two links use a trailing arm or ladder bars. Will be interesting to follow this build.

Can’t wait to see that rear swing arm wrap up…😂

How is that twisting articulation of the axle going to work with a chain?

Either way you will need some kind of extra support for side to side, first time you get sideways in rough terrain that setup will fold up. Maybe a ladder bar with a 45" bar going from front to back under the seat.

Put the rear sprocket on some kind of swivel to keep it alligned with the front sprocket when the axle articulates.

you could do a partially triangulated four link if that setup doesnt end up working where either the uppers are triangulated and ur lowers are parallel or vice versa

Interesting video as usual. Thank you.

Parallel radius bars with a watts link would be your best bet. But you're going to be fighting chain issues... UNLESS you can figure out some kind of chain tensioner or put the drive sprocket on the drive axle on some kind of keyed gimbal. Look at how a helicopter main rotor works for reference.

I’m looking forward to seeing how you get on. I’ve had a similar rear suspension idea to you simmering on the brain for a few years now, only differences being I wanted to mount the engine to the fixed trailing arm and it was for a dirt oval racing go kart where any bump steer, unstrung weight issues or variation in travel could be calculated into the design. Good luck 🤞

Hell yeah positive vibes. This is coming out so sick

I like your thinking of keeping things simple, but I do agree with manic racing comments that 4 link with a panhard rod would be a more stable and reliable setup. But best of luck with how the project progresses.

Isn’t the chain going to jump off every time you go over a bump

To keep weight down you could try a corvette type mono leaf spring to each side of the rear from under the seat

Should try and find a small axle with a diff so you can have it flex with out the chain coming off and have a chain drive to a drive shaft to make the rear end work properly with out any problems 👍

Trailing arms 72 chevy c10 pickup.That is what this is.I also have a ford ranger with twin I beam front suspension and I love it

I've enjoyed watching your skills improve over the years. I do see a few problems with your rear suspension. Your modified swingarm pivot being rearward from your jackshaft drive sprocket is going change your secondary chain length, throughout the rear suspension travel. Additionally, any articulation is going to move your sprockets out og alignment with each other. It will be interesting to see how you make this work. Keep up the awesome work. I don't always agree with your engineering, but I really enjoy your channel. Dont let the trolls get you down... they ain't building shit. Gearing is easier than you think. I usually start by choosing a desired top speed. If you know the maximum rpm at the Transmission output and the tire circumference, it's just a matter of choosing the combination of the four sprockets, to get the correct rpm of the axle. Choosing the correct combination now will make it easier to build your much needed chain guides and guards.

I suspect that you may need to beef up the left side trailing arm and heim joint. Maybe a flange down the arm ( or double tube) would do it. In operation, if the suspension is soft the car will lean left under brakes. But this might not be to much of a problem. To allow for articulation of the chain during independant suspension movement you might be best to use a side bow roller chain which alows the chain to bend sideways.

Your side to side articulation on the front heim joints is going to cause the rear axle to move side to side. That rear triangulation bar is going to fight it but I think you're putting a huge bending moment on that left bar.

Very clever of you to have thought of this kind of rear suspension, i was thinking of a 2 link with Panhard of Watts Link, but your's is simpler

You’re two links suspension is similar to what early Chevy trucks used to have. They had the trading arms going back to the axle and then coil over with springs or shocks so that way you different differential rock side side and up and down.

Cool design as always really like to see you try things out. Will the chain stay on?

Really curious to see how it goes and well done for willing to try new things! 💪💪💪

You need a heim joint on both control arms and a panhandle bar for side to side motion