@@bradleyhite3476 excellent comments. Thank you

Remember friend, it's an eternal journey, Jesus is also King of one day at a time 🙏

@@nikao7751 thank you for your encouragement ☺️ it is more needed then you know 🙏

It seems many people seem to think everything in the Bible must be taken literally. It results in some passages being understood very woodenly. Biblical authors used literary devices, as writers do today.

In the upper room Jesus said love one another. He did not command us to agree with one another. The Apostles creed was written to state what a Christian believes. Everything else is up for argument.

@@brucejane7395 it's always best to let the word of God and the God of the word do the talking; Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. 2 Corinthians 13:11 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10 now, who are we to listen to, our own understanding or the word of God given through those whom Jesus personally sent? I'll stick with the bible every time 🙏

Is that a good thing asking for a fellow Calvinist.

@@IamGreatsword What do you mean?

i read the bible and saw so many instances of God being completely in control of Everything, yet i believed in free will for years because everyone and their grandmother says we have it. im not even calvinist, but if you believe God is completely sovereign then you will be labeled as such by the lemming masses. just thinking you can somehow ruin Gods perfect plan he has for you is disrespectful

@@SavingSoulsMinistries It is disrespectful to ruin God's perfect plan for you, but that hasn't stopped many people. God is a gentleman, He doesn't force Himself on unwilling participants. Just look at all of the evil people in the world who proudly walk in darkness until the day they die with no remorse. It's disrespectful, but it's doable.

​@@TheMidnightModder what about jonah?

@@leviwilliams9601 The only thing my free will ever got me was in trouble.

Hey now I just find ways to build things that are smarter than the engineers and could save companies money 😂

That's pretty good, but I would think it was that they misread the instructions and ended up with leftover parts, and because of the pride of saving face that they actually did it right....

I think of it more as a Rubik's Cube. The pieces of Calvinism seem to fit together with each other but don't align with the Bible in the end, so it seems like you are solving the Cube, but then on the last few turns it just doesn't line up properly.

So it sounds like you completely understand everything and can answer any question on the Bible? You'll assemble that couch perfectly no problem..How come I've never heard of you?! 😂

💯

Amen brother.

And yet they will claim Solo Scriptura .

@@jeffreybombaBefore you ever read the Bible we’re you already aware that Christ died for everyone and that everyone had free will?

@@ForGodsGlory1090 Someone told me that Jesus died for me before I read the Bible. Having heard that God loves everyone, I never thought in any terms outside of free will until someone told me there was a controversy on the subject.

@@jeffreybomba You never thought in any terms outside of freewill because it’s impossible to do so. Just a person saying “I thought” assumes a God given freewill choice. Calvinists constantly claim “God predetermined everything” while speaking, believing, and living as-if all people have freewill. It never ceases to amaze me to read their comments saying “You are doing this or I believe this” when what they claim to believe is God decreed for you to do this and me to believe this. They don’t even speak as-if they believe their own claims.

All you straight deceived people need to preach the gospel. It becomes clear whose in control when you see someone get saved. Or when God makes a man get completely lost going in the opposite direction on the wrong bus so he can hear and believe. The mouth of the new believers will tell you every time this happened for a reason. When God moves you to do something and the person you are doing it for starts crying and tells you He asked God for it that morning. You people can read all you want you are confused from lack of practice not study. He hates those who dont trust Him. For those He saved it is a gross thing to do work in their lives because they take his glory and pretend they made the choice. What choice did Jesus have? Are we better than he is? Doesnt God move the heart of a King in whichever Direction He chooses are you greater than Kings, or perhaps you dont Know that the Son sets us free. You people assume free will, but I have never met a free person in my life. Either slave of Christ in righteousness or slave of sin in death. This is why the church is weak and thinks miracles are only for biblical times, most people pretend God doesn't even speak anymore. Preach the gospel when He tells you to you will see the truth. You cant make fruit grow it happens in its season

"That's a slow clap!" Just kidding. While I disagree with you theologically, I'm super glad to hear of your journey from alcoholism to freedom in Christ. Praise God.

@@heavymetalmusichead4969 Thank you. You never explained why you disagree, though.

@@mikesteele9431 I just dropped by to celebrate your testimony. I'm not interested in debating in the comments. 🙂

Thank you for pointing this out. We all have different stories! And we all have arrived at our theological beliefs through much prayer, deliberation, and conviction.

So, I can only hope I'm right, and if I ever find I'm wrong, it's the fault of the west world 😏

That's not true for me. I came to faith in my late teens living on my own in New York City, and didn't really know what I should do next so I just found a church and started reading the bible on my own from Genesis to Revelation. I didn't know enough to know about commentaries or having someone else interpret anything for me so when I didn't understand something I just prayed about it and left it alone figuring I'd get answers eventually. Without any outside thoughts influencing me I NEVER considered the doctrines of Calvinism, and when I finally heard it taught it didn't seem familiar to me from what I'd been reading time and time again. If people would just read the word for themselves and pray and just continue to do that as they walk with the Lord their heads would be a lot clearer about God

⁠@@brandi5326I do have a question we’re you already aware that Jesus died for everyone before you started reading that bible?

@@ForGodsGlory1090 I was told that Jesus died for our sins. And that without him there's no way to be made right with God. I knew intuitively that something was wrong with me and people and the world. And I was told that Jesus would point me to God. I don't think I had a firm grasp on most Christian doctrines though or any differences between what Christians believe or any other groups that are monotheistic.

@@brandi5326 What I’m getting at is even if not in great depth you already had presuppositions before you opened the Bible and began to read. Everything you knew or have heard about Jesus in your life helped you develop your presuppositions unawaringly. With us living in a time predominantly arminianistic in its theology and thought. That’s why you would have never considered the doctrines of Calvinism. You unawaringly we’re already looking at the Bible through a filter.

Of course maybe He didn't. You won't know until after you die.

Quit lying for money.

Christians are only Christians usually in part by exploring questions they don’t have answers to and then discovering Christian teachings. Atheist can and do use this same logic

On one level this is true but on another, he was feeling intense pressure to believe Calvinism was true even though everything in Him (including the Holy Spirit) was screaming NO! I was briefly drawn into a cult so can relate to what RC was talking about. Thankfully, I ran the other way pretty quickly. But I understand the angst for those who truly love Christ and want to do His will no matter what. RC was caught because of his highly intellectual inner peer circle.

@@emf49 that's quite an assumption to presume the Spirit was screaming "no"...

That’s very cute. But how about an example of what would be falling off the cliff. The basic truth about the gospel? Or that the gospel is just for the elect. And everyone else is damned? Or there are no more miracles? I would like to hear about what is falling off the cliff how you’re helping keep the real truth.

True!

@@barryclevenger7456 dead in your transgressions and sins means you are guilty and will die for them. No one reads that and thinks it means you are unable to choose and only want to sin and God must change you to even recognize him. You are 100% wrong

@@barryclevenger7456 yes the term dead man walking means he is in the grave and the walking is just a metaphors. It never means he is going to be dead in the future. Im sorry your reading comprehension is so poor.

@@barryclevenger7456 “Dead means graveyard dead.”That’s why God uses judicial hardening to accomplish His purposes? Blinding and hardening corpse like dead people makes a lot of sense???? Using Lazarus as an example really shows how reformed theology is just a false theology in search of a proof text. Lazarus was a friend of Jesus before He died. You need to read and understand what that story is actually about because it has nothing to do with calvinism.

@@barryclevenger7456 John Calvin of his own admission (several times) took his teaching not strictly from Scripture but from the interpretations of Scripture given by Augustine. This Augustinian interpretations of soteriology came only at the end of Augustine’s life and was an influence only on the western church. When we leave our little western echo chamber where Calvinism has been a minority viewpoint we find that the church in the east never adopted it at all. Nor do we find it in the primitive church or for that matter in any church prior to the 5th century. It has NEVER been the majority viewpoint of the church even if you only look to the west. More importantly it goes against the clear teaching of many passages of the Bible, forcing Calvinist to redefine words for it to make sense (like the word “all”). Finally while I have great respect for some of my Calvinist brethren and their zeal for the Lord, I cannot ignore the fact that each previous revival of Calvinistic soteriology in history has had a short lifespan that self imploded leading them back to the traditional interpretation of Scripture of man’s libertarian free will and God’s universal provision for salvation to ALL who by that libertarian free will accept the Gospel call in faith.

..agree. shouldn't we build each other ?

I think it's because calvinism isn't a fruit of the spirit

Of course, because the issues that are taken with it usually come from an emotional repulsion to the idea that God is God and we aren't.

Yeah, reformers are the most hated by "Christians" in all of religion. Apparently I'm going to Hell because I believe God loves us first 😂

I’ve been reading through these comments and some of them are just awful. I’m not a Calvinist. Can’t accept it; tho if it’s true, and God wants me to know it then I will become one. That said I’ve learnt a lot from Calvinist preachers, love many fellow Christians who are Calvinist. The rage at Calvinism is brutal and sad.

@@jonmaster5000 understandable, the doctrine of it supposed to humble us not to make us prideful and I respect Dr. Leighton Flowers how much I disagree with him, but he do you say a couple good points I have nothing against him

@@jonmaster5000it’s crap. A lot of it seems to come from people with surface level reading and understanding of the Bible, at least in my experience. I can’t help but feel anger whenever I see one of the “iTs DeMoNiC” comments.

It's hard to be humble when you are saying you are special.

@@daltonbrasier5491 a true Calvinist that has the proper understanding of Calvinism, God and their position with God sees themselves as anything but “special”. Far from it actually. Humbly fortunate is more like it….. Something that I have come to realize is that most non/anti-Calvinist get the majority of their interpretation of Calvinism from non-Calvinist who most often have a very twisted misunderstanding of it to begin with.

@@maxsmith3335 It's literally the definition of special. You think you are set apart and chosen over others. You can't just change the definition of a word to make it suit your narrative.

@@daltonbrasier5491 scripture states that those that are chosen in Christ ARE set apart. Does it not? Those are not my own words. The fact that one recognizes himself to be in Christ does not mean that they look upon themselves as “special”….. If anything at all I consider myself extremely fortunate in contrast to someone who will never come to saving faith in Christ. Here’s an analogy I often use. What if your own personal salvation was dependent on you being 100% convinced that Big Foot exists. You can’t just say “ok I believe”…..”now grant me my salvation“…. Would you continue to confess BF’s existence if someone put a gun to your head and told you to deny it? Now what if you walked out into the woods one day and you heard a twig snap behind you.. You turn around and there is a 9ft tall creature covered in hair standing 5 feet away from you? You can’t unsee what you just saw right? Did BF force you to believe he is real?? I mean, theoretically speaking you still have the “free will” to not believe correct?? But how could you not at this point?? Your will is free but at the same time a prisoner to this new found reality. Now what if you go home and tell your buddy what happened and he goes out there day after day after day and never experiences this and yet every time going forwards you go out there BF comes out into the open for you. At the end of the day your buddy is still responsible for believing or not believing. ….. That is how Calvinist view God and one’s free will. In a nutshell that is exactly what happened to me. I believe in God because of “God”.

​@@maxsmith3335Well-said.

Amen

Baloney.

For me, God gets all the credit for my salvation. The grace and forgiveness that works in my life was through the blood of Christ He shed on the cross in calvary. The (my) eternal life is purely a gift from God, as the Holy Spirit powerfully attests.... Nothing more, nothing less....However, as I carefully studied Calvinism (I am not Arminian), through the years, as I humble down before God and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I came to realize (for God open my spiritual eyes) that "God wants all men to be save", not only the elect. This is very very clear and obvious in the Bible, supported by many passages. How then that Calvin concluded that Christ death was meant only for the elect (limited atonement)? And what about the many many many passages in the Bible that challenges man to make a decision to choose and serve God? Yes, God is sovereign, but He is also just and righteous (by giving man the ability to decide, e.g. free will). Remember John 3:16 - that word "whosoever" is very obvious.... God does not make it difficult for us to understand His Word, but Calvinism, for me, complicates it.... May God bless you.....

Acts 13? Ephesians 1? Revelation 17? Not sure most have any clue what they’re rebelling against regardless of any apparitions or hallucinations may have revealed to them.

What a load of crap.

So Calvinism is the doctrine of Demons? Didn't realize an opposing view on Soteriology made you a demon worshiper...

​@@leviwilliams9601 Well, the God described in Calvinism is not the God of the Bible, it's who the devil would be if he were God. You're an idolater--simple as that. Add in that Calvinism preaches a different gospel, different Jesus, and different spirit and you have a full fledged doctrines of demons which leads people into the condemnation of false religion rather than freedom and life in Christ. Calvinism has no soteriology in it because it leads to death not life. It leads those who are saved into the aposty of works-based salvation and a denial of Christ and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Get saved bro--before it's too late. Be free in Jesus, name.

I stopped being Calvinist by reading Scripture

Strawman

@DieAbsoluteWahrheit You should learn about the blasphemous teachings of calvinism you've embraced my friend. Nothing I've said is a strawman I assure you .

@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 Tell me some blasphemous teachings please

Tell me you don't understand Gnosticism without telling me you don't understand Gnosticism

I can say the same, with no outside influence all I knew is that I loved Jesus and wanted to serve him.

⁠sinners are not just dead in sin but hostile to God, willfully rejecting, spirit absent and unable to understand scripture. What you miss is that while in this state they are unable to choose God. It is the draw of the Father awakens to new life. God Draws, we believe, christ saves, holy spirit dwells. We do NOTHING. Belief isn’t a choice but an epiphany of compelled reason and realization. Thats what “made alive” means. Catch that??? MADE ALIVE. When we suppose human choice we inject our common sense into absolute terminology. “Made must not mean god cause but simply responded”. Yet the text never reads with choice in mind.

Asimov: Thank you so so much for your post!!!

@@HillbillyBlack We were dead like the Prodigal son, not Lazarus. Now that Jesus was raised up, He draws everyone to Himself. "the text never reads with choice in mind" - choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve - Joshua 24:15 - Now choose life, so that you and your children may live - Deut 30:19 - “So Jesus then said to them plainly, ‘Lazarus is dead, and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, 👉so that you may believe👈…’ - John 11:14-15 -“So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, ‘Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, 👉so that they may believe that You sent Me👈’… Therefore many of the Jews who came to Mary, and saw what He had done, believed in Him” - John 11:41-42; 45 The story of Lazarus indicates choice because Jesus eludes to a possible different outcome in the belief of the witnesses if He was there earlier.

@@JG-po5cv All great call outs brother. Lets work through them. Josh: 24:14-15 Total Inability affirms that unregenerate man, being totally depraved, is unable to obey or please God unto salvation. It is a doctrine concerning salvation. Christians are in a different state after salvation called sanctification. Christians do not suffer from total inability (Rom 8:9). They can please God (1 Thess 4:1; Heb 11:6) and therefore should not be considered totally depraved. In addition, the doctrine of total inability does not deny man's ability to make choices. That is, it does not deny that man has free agency to make choices according to his nature. However, total inability does assert that when it comes unto salvation, man is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1-2) - that he is a slave to sin (Rom. 6:16, 20). As slaves, depraved man lives in the passions of the flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind (Eph. 2:3). Individuals with depraved natures, left to themselves, will always choose to reject God unto salvation because he does not appeal to them (Rom. 1:18-24). Paul informs us in Rom 8:7-8, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." In salvation, when God, by his grace (Eph 2:8), changes the nature of his elect (John 3:1-8; Rom 8:9), then, and only then, can they choose to come to him because they now desire him (i.e. 1 John 4:19). Joshua 24:15 has a larger context. Proper biblical exegesis examines verses within their entire context. the overall context of Joshua 24 deals with covenant faithfulness and renewal (Josh 24:25), not salvation. So, total depravity is not an issue here. Second, Joshua 24:14 begins with the words "Now therefore" sending us back to the context of Joshua 24:1-13. It briefly describes Israel's history, including their deliverance from Egypt and God's kind provision. So, in context, the absolute free-will some assert to choose Christ unto salvation from Joshua 24:15 is not true, as the choice was between two evils; false gods. Then Joshua says the convicting words, "But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" (Josh 24:15). In reading the entire chapter, we discover that after the Lord initiated an assembly by Joshua (Josh 24:1-2) and Joshua by the Spirit shared God's Word which is the door opened that reveals the Draw of God. However, note Joshua's words "You are not able to serve the Lord, for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, then he will turn and do you harm and consume you, after having done you good" (Josh 24:19-20). Tragically, after the death of Joshua his words came true (Josh 24:32; Judg 2:7, 10-13; 2 Kings 17:7-23, etc.). God's people need ongoing proper leadership, accountability, and discipline (Matt 18:15-20). So, this text has nothing to do with salvation, but deals with covenant faithfulness and renewal. Joshua 24:15 deals with a choice between two evils, not between God and evil. God's assembly and his Word made Israel examine their sin-life. Israel repented because of God's mercy and grace.

Man ain't that the truth. I've never seen a group with more hero worship. Every Calvinist video on KZfaq has a picture of one of about four or five hero preachers that they follow blindly. It's kind of ironic.

@@whome9936 Like the Mormons and Joseph Smith or Brigham Young.

First off you have to think about the time we live in. It’s predominantly Arminianistic in its theology there aren’t any kings and those who have absolute authority. Everyone has presuppositions when they first become Christians and most would be Arminianistic due to what they hear before they ever read the Bible this has a greater effect than you realize.

@@ForGodsGlory1090 Yeah but those that read the plain text never come to a Calvinist belief. It's only after becoming a Christian that a Calvinist will come to them and convert them to their twisted systematic false Calvinist beliefs. Calvinism is a cult just as the Jehovah's witnesses and Mormon beliefs. Calvinism like the JW's and Mormons have their own false leader. The JW's have Charles Tarse Russel with his dawn day Bible study book and the NWT which he says you can't understand the Bible without it. The Mormons have Joseph Smith and the book Mormon and Calvinist has John Calvin who also wrote his own book Calvin's Institutes of which he says you need it to rightly understand the Bible, Calvin says you need his Institutes so that you know what to look for in the scriptures. Just another cult and dare I call myself anything but a Christian as Paul said- 1 Corinthians 1:11-13 (NASB95): For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? These running around calling themselves Calvinist are in disobedience to scripture. And yes lucky for me that we don't have kings, because of Calvin was alive and in charge today he would have me killed the same as the Anabaptist and others who disagree with his false teachings.

@@ForGodsGlory1090 People don’t believe in God given freewill choice because it’s a presupposition or they are told to, they believe it because it’s an unavoidable part of reality. The Scriptures are just affirming that it’s true and explaining the responsibility people have because of this fact.

@@obrien709 So why does Jesus say who ever sins is a slave to sin? Or the mind set on the flesh is hostile to God it does not submit to Gods law indeed it cannot. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Man makes choices, we make decisions but our will is not free it is in bondage to sin. If that’s not the case and our wills are completely free from all inclination why are there no righteous people? Where are those who have decided to never sin that are not in need of Christ? Statistically there must be those who are sinless due to their freewill. So yes due to presuppositions most people have an unbiblical view of the will before they even read the Bible. Most people would also have an unbiblical view of man being inherently good before they read the scriptures too.

@@ForGodsGlory1090 False. That’s all question begging. God given freewill choice isn’t the ability to do anything or whatever a person wants. It’s the ability to respond to God in Faith. Until you guys stop straw-manning the truth you will not be able to understand it. This is all taught in Romans 1, Deut. 30 etc… People who reject God are in bondage to sin that’s why “God gives the way to escape.” The Calvinist system is one of sinful partiality and God does not sin, His free gift goes out to all people.

Says who? you?

If you find your conscience going against scripture, then you must go against your conscience.

It’s the normal way people accept any form of any religion. Doesn’t make it wrong, doesn’t make it right.

@@thopkins2271 Except that 90% of the time it is someone who is already a believer. The point is when you read the Bible as a believer Genesis to Revelation like I did as a first generation Christian there is no way you come away with Calvinism.

​@@thopkins2271indoctrination is most certainly bad.

@@nikao7751 That’s nonsense.

@@thopkins2271 in·doc·tri·na·tion /inˌdäktrəˈnāSH(ə)n/ noun the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. And there are plenty more definitions that are much worse, so, I would have to say it's still bad.

So, by reading scripture you came to the conclusion that God determined to save you before the creation of the world. But He created your neighbor with the express purpose to send him to hell for eternity without any possibility to repent? Are you sure you got that by reading scripture?

Lol its hilarious how dumb your arguement is. We don't presupposition free will because we are taught arminianism, we presupposition it because its common sense. You were literally brainwashed into your cult to believe you don't have free will and you are chosen and separated from the big bad totally depraved others.

The word “Trinity” is not in the Bible either but we do not abandoned the teachings of Scripture because the doctrinal term is not found there. We don’t deny the existence of something based solely on if the word appears in the Bible. The question is “does the Bible teach what we describe under the term used?”. Arminians and Traditionalist also believe in predestination and election but the definition varies from that of the Calvinist. Terminology is used for clarification and the modern term used to describe a teaching does not need to be a word found in the Bible. There are hundreds if not thousands of terms used to describe schools of thought or doctrinal teachings today. Calvinism, Arminianism, Total Depravity, Irresistible Grace, Free Will, etc… are all terms used to describe doctrinal stances that are not specific Bible words. We have always used such terminology to describe teachings and have never required the terms to be only Bible words.

You have to go outside the Bible to come up with the term Calvinist 😅.

Lol so dramatic and distasteful. Yeah I’m sure RC decided that God gets all the glory because he’s a narcissist… this is the type of stuff people say when they don’t have a good argument

Narcissists don't like comments mentioning them, @@quinnpeterson2716 , did you know that before.? Now, were you speaking for RC, or for God, or you can't tell them apart.?!

So was it the Bible or JMac that influenced you? Just wondering. I listen to a lot of Calvinist preachers because I value many things they teach even though I don't agree with the doctrine of Calvinism. It goes against the nature of God and limits Christ's work on the cross.

@@dejayne8246 The bible influenced me, however theirs teachings gave me a clearer understanding. I do agree that sometimes they can be wrong, they are human and can be wrong anytime they perceive something.

Explain.

logic at its finest lol XD

Inability to save ourselves doesn't mean an inability to believe the Word of God or obey Him for a moment

@@GabeM972 hey my friend I guess my question would be “where does scripture say that? “ Ep 2.1 “we were dead in our sins and trespasses” how did we make a decision? Dead men don’t make decisions. Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” So how do we Choose righteousness when we are not righteous and dead in our sins and trespasses ?

@@TheGermdog Dead like Lazarus or dead like prodigal son? Dead men don't talk, dead men don't hear, dead men can't sin... If you're making that analogy at least be consistent. Joshua obeyed, Abraham believed. Did God do that for them or did God already know what they were going to do? You quote scriptures that nobody does good no not one but how can you quote that while David was called a man after God's own heart?

@@GabeM972 yeah I agree but Lazarus couldn’t raise himself and David said it himself. Look at psalm 51. Especially verse 6. Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

@@GabeM972 I’m not trying to hate on people that believe this way I’m just saying I think scripture says God is more in control than people think He is

The thing is anyone who has heard of Jesus has heard from someone els and will develop presuppositions from what they hear from that person. To think it’s just Calvinist is ridiculous.

​@@ForGodsGlory1090 keep trying, however not even Calvin agrees with you now. you know he being in heaven. At least I hope he's there.

Typically, in my experience, no one comes to knowing the true god of the Bible, unless they actually read the Bible. ​​⁠sinners are not just dead in sin but hostile to God, willfully rejecting, spirit absent and unable to understand scripture. What you miss is that while in this state they are unable to choose God. It is the draw of the Father awakens to new life. God Draws, we believe, christ saves, holy spirit dwells. We do NOTHING. Belief isn’t a choice but an epiphany of compelled reason and realization. Thats what “made alive” means. Catch that??? MADE ALIVE. When we suppose human choice we inject our common sense into absolute terminology. “Made must not mean god cause but simply responded”. Yet the text never reads with choice in mind.