Imagine the narrative if SFAT soloed Leffen and Ice

About the pause incident: Funnily enough, during one of the summits (5, I believe) Leffen was playing Axe on ironman and Scar was on commentary and Leffen accidentaly paused 'cause he thought he had lost his last stock, but then he made the recovery. Instantly, Leffen SDed because of the pause and Scar screamed "THAT'S RIGHT LEFFEN" frame perfectly. Best moment of Smash right there

MikeHaze screaming while being chaingrabbed will never not be the funniest shit in the world, no matter how wrong it is

"This doesn't happen in my country" "Well, now it did" Leffen is the living embodiment of the comeback you make up in the shower

The grimiest thing about Fortune's whole shit is that he didn't even need the stock, he was ahead

That Fortune guy... I dont know enough english to insult him properly.

Good guy SFAT for handshakes tho

Interestingly enough I played a friendly with Armada at Pound 4 on the same 0.9 setup before the historic and controversial Armada/Silent Spectre set. It was a Peach ditto where he clobbered and 4 stocked me. Last stock I did a F-throw where he survived at 200%. The Unsolved Mystery for me was I wondered for years how he survived that F-throw!

I'm a bit surprised the EVO grand finals Bayo ditto wasnt here.

"Leffen 100% told me that scar said this never happens in my country and leffen said well, now it did." -100% Armada

im sorry but replaying the game 5 v m2k is complete bs, if you played the match and bring it up after you lost thats grime

About HBox’s Evo 2013, in his commentary on EmpLemon’s documentary, he said he plays Best of 3s different than Best of 5s. According to him, he takes more risks in Best of 5s, which is another big reason he got angry about the rule change and upset about the loss.

The .9 launch rate is 100% the organizer's fault. Either replay the entire set or give compensation to both players.

I think ChillinDude89s life would’ve been nothing but Ws if he beat Leffen that day RIP Chillin, he ain’t dead but pray for him anyway

For me with that awful stage rule the standard should be, that if both players agreed to return to that stage then there is no problem.

I feel like with the coaching and the "going back to same stage" issue it is the responsibility of the opponent to recognize these rule violations, as they are visible, and call a TO. With the 0.9 knockback it isn't visible, so it is not the competitors responsibility to call it out. IMO the entire set should have been replayed

Gotta love the way he says three

I was in a final round replay situation in MvC3... I had actually already begun a match on Smash64 that was interupted so I can replay the semi final match in MvC3 because the tournament organizer (my opponent) forgot semis were supposed to be 3/5 instead of 2/3. I lost the replay and was so flustered I went 0-3 in loser finals and just quit the Smash 64 tourney. Replays are NEVER the answer. Dude shook my hand, admitted defeat, then one of his friends was like "oh but 3 out of 5" way after the fact. It's so demoralizing to have a win removed from your record, total BS.

This video would look real different if it were made two weeks later.

It actually is a rule now, Mike Haze rule Its a real thing

I love your reaction content. It's so nice to see your extra opinions and inputs to help flesh out and explain some of the things in the videos.

Fortune is a good example of entitlement, regardless that it was done as a joke.

Looks like we need a part 2

i love the ice climbers one, man yells in pain and agony over smash brawl

thats a great take on the pause situation every time I saw it player reaction is either "I love heel leffen, back when he would scumbag with no remorse and love crowd booing" or "Ive always hated leffen for shit like this" I never thought of the pressure a player who has the pause used against him now having to decide to either be vilified for "demanding" the stock be taken or having to let go of a situation that can put them at a free in-game advantage because of the culture surrounding freebie rules in smash

Yeah... Fortune is the worst, unplugging your controller is a forfeit anywhere else.

Hbox recently talked about he and Crunch asked a TO for clarification and they OKed it

I love how he says "According to me" at 2:24

- Armada siding with Leffen thing of pausing and Leffen enforcing the rule, is the right call. Regardless if it was an accident or on purpose , if there are rules about the "pause", they should be enforced. And Leffen even let it go once , but Scar been Scar, spamming the start button...... - Replaying sets should not be a thing as Armada mention, the one who won , is under pressure of losing what they already achieved. Furthermore, it encourage the "losing player" to ask for a "replay". It is their fault for letting it happen or for not realizing it. - The Hungrybox one , Mr.Wizard screwing players and not even addressing a proper apology. - Well I guess what happen in Hungrybox in 2013, they gave it back to him in 2017 as a favor. - Fortune been a scumbag and having bad sportsmanship. - The 0.9 Smash 4 scenario pretty much killed Komirikiri smash career, he just got so fed up. - MikeHaze with the Mario Party tactic in that money match.

according to zero for the smash 4 clip, 3 matches happened potentially with the knockback set to 0.9 including one with zero vs dabuz in which afterwords dabuz had indeed said something was up with the knockback before the entire situation

if i was hbox, at next evo, every minute or so id ask "hey did the rules change?" just to annoy them

Armada's reaction videos are the best reaction videos. Goes into so much more depth then what you usually see he isn't simply watching it and saying one or two not so meaningful things.

"Damn talk to him, son" what a brudder

2:57 The player said "Woooow" at the same as the commentator lol

In regards to the second video, I 100% agree with you. It's just like in tennis reviews, if you want to challenge a call you have to do it immediately, you can't play the point out and then challenge once you lose the point.

Some of the best reaction tech chases to the best reaction videos. Keep it up!

Your points of view are always on point Armada, i've followed the fgc in general since the days of mlg , wcg and bbb/evo. You would do a good commentator not just for melee.

Its not an armada Video if there is no smacking followed by a "uuuh"

Why don’t we just turn off pause 🤷‍♂️

"He claims the knockback was at 0.9" Armada: First time?

“Ranning behind” haha, i love u Armada

According to ZeRo he and one of the people he faced noticed that certain moves weren't killing which means this was a problem for probably the whole tournament and that the ethical decision was to replay everything, but it would put everything else massively behind schedule.

An unplugged controller is a forfeit, friendly reminder.

"There's nothing in the rules saying I can't infinite chaingrab!" "Yeah, and there's nothing in the rules saying I can't scream in your face whenever you do it!"

I really wanted to see the Hax vs Mewtwoking set where they have a disagreement about neutral starts

i believe that to change the launch rate in smash four you have to go into another part of the rules menu, similar to ultimate, so it is very likely it was changed intentionally

People also forget that ZeRo VS Dabuz, the set before Komo/Zack was played on 0.9 too. I'm guessing if they replayed the set then Dabuz would argue his set should be replayed too. IIRC D1 even starts reading a tweet that points this out and then he stops himself

100% agree with Armada's thoughts on the no pausing rule as is. It definitely shouldn't be up to the individual players, that's horribly unfair.

Honestly, the same stage thing is so confusing for me. It's the only rule that I forget about all the time, can't decide which side I'm on, and see nobody talk about.

scar was 100% at fault here cause he paused 2 times WHILE HAVING 2 STOCKS. what made me mad that day was that he also witch hunted leffen on twitter the same hour and never apologized afaik. the people's champ? more like the sour griefer if you ask me. rules are rules and leffen + ice was on the right by going with the rules. the moment the pauses happen you see leffen playing footsies vs sfat and that was a clear disruption. mistakes happen once but he paused twice! just imagine YOU are the player/victim of that, put aside usa vs europe and see it from a competetive point, let me guess you would have let it slip cause he's the people champ right?

Man that last one, I would have definitely put that under harming your opponent some way by screaming in their ear. I've had that happen, that shit hurts.

On the HBox coaching thing, the rules say that there's no coaching outside of pools. Except from what I have been told Evo pools go into a new set of pools basically until you get to finals so it's very unclear where coaching is supposed to stop.

Didn't know Scar was one of those "my country" guys. lol

No I agree with the .9 shit because how are you supposed to know it’s on .9 when it’s been there on the set up for a while. It’s kinda like EVO, where you’re expected to change the rules every time. The whole set should’ve been replayed.

That HB/Wobbles one still pisses me off to this day. I was there live too.

mike haze screaming is how anyone feels inside when getting wobbled im crying so good

the sg fortune moment always gets me

Love your stuff armada. I do agree with sammy, there are a lit of people who try to cheat and hope you dont catch them and if you haven't been cheated before and are super focused on playing your best and keeping that mindset, you can be the better player and lose because they hustled you.

biggest controversy is you leaving in your prime comeback

Wait at 13:06 that’s definitely Stumblebee in the background standing up with the Evo shirt and glasses.

24:49 This is an example of something you can't bring up before the match begins. Theoretically he may have been able to say something earlier in the set, but then again he might have not been sure.

I feel like a 0.9 or modified knockback scenario should be an entire set replay. I agree with you when it comes to stage banning and the players needing to know the tournament rules. In that case you need to call it out before the match starts. But even an experienced top player may not immediately notice the knockback is modified, and it can only actually be verified after a match (in most case it will probably take numerous matches to even notice enough to check). In the komo-zack set it would be even more important, since 0.9 knockback would heavily influence Bayonetta's combos. If modified knockback is found to be on at any point during a set, it should be an immediate restart. That's my opinion, at least.

"Don't quote me on that" -armada

What was the “0.9” scenario armada was part of? I remember seeing something a while back about it, but I don’t remember who was involved or what happened

My problem with the idea of not replaying at least something in the 0.9 launch rate situation is that you can’t really call it out because it is something super quick and affects every game. It’s different from stage ban because you have a very easy time knowing what stage you are allowed to go back to. If there was a very obvious indicator of the launch rate then it shouldn’t be replayed, but there isn’t it is hidden in the rules and can’t be identified easily

I know leffen got a lot of hate for calling the pause, but imo he shouldn't have. Even though it was accidental, scar was pausing while ice and leffen were attempting to combo sfat and it disrupted them, and that's why the rule was put in place.

10:16 My friends and I have a rule in monopoly. If you land on someone's property, and they don't notice, you don't pay rent. Its to keep everyone engaged and to keep the game going a bit longer. If you don't notice someone pick a stage they won on, and try to do a take back, its too late, turn changed, you can't charge them rent anymore

Well I bet I could tell you the next most controversial one 😔

"Well this is obviously not ok... but it is funny" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

So cringe how people think Leffen was wrong for the stock thing. HE PAUSED MULTIPLE TIMES AND CAUSED THEM TO DO TEAM DAMAGE. That's literally inarguable and I'm sure Scar regretted it tbh.

Armada's lookin good with long hair!

I appreciate someone following the rules, they are there for a reason. Good on Leffen

The other teammate must've paused second just to continue the game. But he was too late

Well that didn't age well

I want to do that now. Before every game... stop and ask if there have been any rule changes since the last game.

Those were "new" when it happened. We hadn't today's mindset back then, so even if the decisions taken seems dumb for today you also have to think that in the hurry you can do bad choices. That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to say those were bad decisions, because they are. The purpose of this video is to have documentation about what not to do and how to handle awkward situations.

If you're wondering what Armada thinks about the Leffen vs Chu replay he made a video about it when it happened: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/idxpfbiI08iUdo0.html The tldr of it was that he wouldn't have wanted to replay the set because it was vanilla Melee. If he won he would've DQ'd himself if they wanted a replay and if he lost he would've ran off stage for every stock. The lesson I've learned is know the rules while you're playing and refuse to play before talking to a TO. Also, when you lose and didn't call a rule breaking situation out that's on you and the results should stand. If you lose and need to replay you're the one who allowed it to happen and although you may win the replay it's unacceptable that your opponent needs to pay due to your mistake.

No one: MikeHaze: AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

I liked the vid the moment Armada disagreed with TKBreezy on his "Bodied" sign! That was the right callout!

The thing with .9 in that instance is that it only benefit Bayonetta. She can literally kill you at any % and the added weight only makes her combos harder to escape. The SDI for the ladders might've also been affected considerably.

I think that it's pretty fair to let the players decide to take the pause stock. I think the rule is to make sure that you can't pause on purpose to disrupt the rhythm of the game. So then it's up to the opposite player if they think that the pause gave them an unfair advantage or not. If the other player doesn't think so, then it's up to them. I feel like the current rule is pretty reasonable.

5:46 this is why I like leffen lmao

I think pause/stock should not be the situation for doubles when pause is a necessary part of gameplay--at least unless a hack of the game allows for a different control for stock transfers. It's clearly a different situation than singles where pause serves to do nothing but interrupt.

About what you said in the beginning Armada about no matter what if you pause you loose a stock. I have a question for that. In a tournament i was in. The HDMI cable was bad and our screen went black. I paused the game on instinct. This happened twice. We continued playing and the TO's said it was okay and we'll let this slide. Would you then say that my stock would need to be taken? I am genuinely curious about this because this has been bugging me for so long now. This was also before covid so this was an in person event. Not online. If anyone has any opinions about this. Please tell me

I don't understand why scar was using borrowing stocks as an excuse when sfat was on his last stock anyway.

Pause turned off should be a rule itself. So if a match has pause turned on and someone pauses the whole game should be played over as the settings were wrong from the start and the person who turned pause on again, if so, should be held responsible and DQd. I think even the person who brought/set up the set up should be held responsible if they never turned pause off. Scar obviously thought it was turned off before the set because it SHOULD be. That said as it is now it's up to the players to check the settings before the game so Scar unfortunately deserved to lose that stock.

i would always accidentally change it to coin match in the settings lol

That MikeHaze clip is irresistible, man

Wow, you made this video about a month too early. Hope the community can get back to being great soon.

@Armada (i love u armada, i dont blame you for not agreeing with me cuz maybe you didnt consider the implications about the following topic) i legit think that if the damage/launch ratio being wrong gets noticed after a game, thats not necessarily the players fault and its a way bigger deal than the map/stage pick rules cuz it messes with the game in ways you arent supposed to get used to in practice, unlike map disadvantage, so i really really think that as long as the damage ratio gets noticed before its literally too late to replay, it should be replayed. imagine if a major grand finals was set to like 1.2 or 0.8 (or even 1.1 or 0.9 right) or some worse bullshit , and you notice right after game5 of the first set, it would kind of be ridiculous to not replay, especially if the person who won winners final ends up winning the first set in grand final (aka winning the grand final through winners bracket) on wrong dmg ratio, it would be completely fukin outrageous to not just replay the fucking set cmon bro you know im so goddam right. exception for lack of time left for the event: single match tiebreaker or whatever you wanna call it (or like if you have to do a replay of grand finals at a later date/event due to time constraint or whatever the fuck, competitive integrity is so important man, especially with cash prizes, just pay out 2nd place winnings to both grand finalists and give the rest to the winner once you can hold the delayed final, again, im so correct that it hurts)...

“Zack didn’t do anything wrong…”

Can somebody refresh my memory on who the "5 Gods of Melee" were? Idk, but this vid just made me think of them, but I can't remember all of them.

Leffen only got hate for the pause incident because he's Leffen, if it was literally any other player no one would've cared.

LMAO at scars hand going for instinctual hand shake only to be like oh fuck no

21:30 yeah I have nothing to say either. Anyways, I think it would be interesting to see you react to cringey smash moments lol

Doesn't matter if both players violated the rules, hbox did it first, therefore the match was forfeit as soon as it happened. No further official game could take place. What a stupid ruling

Launch rate and UFC are really hard to tell, especially when you're focused on your gameplay. I don't really think those games should stand. Not really same example as not remembering a no-coaching rule imo

the mikehaze scream gets me every time. and i think its more justified bc it wasnt in bracket

I have PTSD, if Mike Haze did that shit to me in a mildly stressful tournament setting it would have turned on a very dangerous reaction. That shit is not funny.

How about this, if there was a smash anime and the main character was playing a villain that paused would he take the stock? hell no