Which game?

​@@Dracobyte mvc3

I think everyone likes that, it's up there with "having people to do things with" in whatever you're doing that just elevates the experience. It *seems* like common sense, of course no one wants to hear a dispassionate voice talking about something they don't love, right? But you also have your own preferences and you kinda have to have *some* interest in the topic to care about what they're saying. I don't play fighting games much, I'm part of the casual crowd that plays a new FG for maaaaybe a week and then drop it, but I've slowly understood what makes them tick for some people and that feeling that you "got" something, is amazing.

fighting games need better single play offerings that people can enjoy on their own, at their own pace until they graduate to the online, this makes the game age more smoothly over the years as the comunity inevitably dwindles. Those single player modes can be a very strong teacher, if learning is cool and fun then they're more likely to not only engage in the education, but actually retaining what they learn. This would lead to more enjoyment across the board.

@@stevenfraielli9869 For real. People wonder why people bounce off of most fighting games these days and it’s not only because there’s very little to draw them in but there’s even LESS to keep a beginner in there. I’m a big Tekken and SoulCalibur fan. You know what I can do when I get absolutely bodied in SC6 online? Take a little break to experiment with the fun character creator or play through parts of the two story modes they have. You know what I did once I got my ass beat in T7? I just stopped playing because there’s almost nothing to do compared to previous mainline games in the series. And after a while of this I just quit the game altogether as people got better who kept going and my skills just degraded. In contrast. I’d consider myself pretty decent at SC6 and got fairly high rank as the character creation system and custom character story convinced me to try fighting styles I usually wouldn’t.

@@Shiratto having a very similar experience with tekken 7 to be honest. I've been playing it a lot and learning has been one of the most engaging, but challenging things I've experienced in a game in a long time. But it's all or nothing because basically the only thing you can do is play online. Which has caused me to burn out incredibly fast compared to other games I've played. When i plateau or tilt and start losing, there's nothing to do other than keep playing and getting beat cause I'm playing sloppy, or swap game altogether. Most players are gonna choose the second one and if they weren't hooked like I am. They ain't coming back. Learning has been near impossible and nearly 100% of my learning experience has been external. Tekken's single player is dogshit, teaches you less than nothing, is boring, and doesn't even let you practice specific matchups against the AI. I sort of fell off of soulcaliber but honestly I'm thinking about picking it up again if I can still find matches on PC. If not like you said I can play the singleplayer, the game has more longevity. No one is going to play tekken 7 when 8 comes out.

@@stevenfraielli9869 Glad someone else understands and I 100% recommended getting back into SoulCal if you can. It really is one of the few fighting games at the moment that actually feels like a full package to me. Not sure about pc but I’m still able to find quite a few people around (mostly in casual matches) at varying hours of the day on ps.

His trash stream uploads balances things out

I unironically think I might enjoy listening to Woolie talk about fighting games more than watching him play them.

No 🧢

@@Riggs_The_Roadie This right here.

He literally can't help himself. The fighting games special interest comes out in every conversation.

For me it was Combofiend vs. Marn's BIONIC AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARM video. I wanted to feel that. I wanted to know what the feeling was to cause Noel Brown to scream like that.

@@DeepestDankest never seen that. Gonna go see that now. edit - BRO WTF WAS THAT !! BIONIC AAAAARRRMMMMM holy shit that was hype as fuck bro !!!!

Woolie getting blown tf out by Big Band and him and Reggie losing their fucking minds is by far my favorite woolie moment potentially ever, including the best friends days it was the best ever lmao

@@stevenfraielli9869 yo that fuckin valentine big band team was godlike

Same reasons as me, but add being down bad for Taokaka in a game I otherwise have no interest in.

The real secret is that this IS the main channel and the other one is now a VOD channel :^)

…. Did you not expect them to have a conversation about it??? At all???

Wait until you hear about asmongold

1 hour and 10 minutes roughly to be more precise

There's a hope that he might learn restraint. Like he didn't have to pull out the King chart. He could've just said that King Grabs is crazy and leave it at that. There's the hope and the disappointment is all self-inflicted.

@@janematthews9087 Screw that, deep dives ftw.

I mean I love gameplay above all else in games, and I love deep and intricate game mechanics way more than story driven games. However the issue with Fighting games is that they are so god dammned terrible at actually teaching new players how to engage with those mechanics meaningfully that most people only experience the most surface level and boring aspects of the game as they get their asses handed to them repeatedly. And I honestly believe that a fighting game could do so much more to teach people and they just don't even try.

@@BlazeMakesGames I do think that is a thing that came from the games' roots in arcades. They didn't want to help you get so good that you could play for a long ass time on a single coin. Nowadays, the communities usually fill the role of teaching new players. Btw Skullgirls is a game that has very good in-game tutorials, it was how I got into the fgc

@@tugsuumovies1999 yeah I feel like a lot of fighting game problems find their roots in their arcade days. Similarly when it comes to the complex inputs that new players struggle with, the original reason for them was because they were meant to be secret moves, and since you could only practice the complex inputs by putting in more quarters it was more money for them. But now it just means hours having to do homework and practice. And yeah I might peek at that at some point, but the problem is also the lack of big name free fighting games to help ease people into it. It's hard to justify buying a game because people claim it's a good entry point, and being unable to know if I even like it or not until after I spend my money on it. That's why I'm looking forwards to things like Project L which is shaping up to be a good entry point while also being F2P. For the time being I'll settle for enjoying matches of Yomi Hustle.

But Woolie does stream fighting games with people who don't play fighters usually, hence they're called the "newcomers". He invited Punchmom to play Persona 4 AU. There was also the Dragonball FighterZ stream with one of Woolie's old friends.

@@leithaziz2716 I mean those streams are usually few and far between. Most of the gitfg are Reggie and Woolie trying out a game and messing around

@@leithaziz2716 until that segment become a regular occurrence, that doesn't count. The wild difference of how smoothly a presentation goes between "The Newcomers" and "GIFG" is so obvious that I can't believe no one talks about how much talking happens or how different the comfort levels between the two are. Like PunchMom's P4AU experience is typical for a new player, and woolie and don't know how to guide her into being comfortable with just pressing buttons. Meanwhile when Reggie and Woolie play a match and they just bantz.

Watching Woolie mess around in fighting games actually did a lot to help me get into them! Been a fav since the fisticuff days and I used to be really intimidated by fighting games, but watching some friends just pop the game in and start messing around with characters and throwing out moves helped me see how fighting games can be fun on a casual level, and how experienced people learn the basics of new games.

The only times I’ve really seen this is like KoF 2013 and Third Strike online for the arcade modes. Wonder why more things don’t do that. Even if I play less optimally it’s more fun.

It took me a good 6 years to figure out how to throw my first Hadouken consistently back in the day. So I can definitely relate. It does me proud to know that players like yourself have access to more, and better tools than we did, so that the learning process, and reaching that level of competence can be made easier.

Wait, that meme wasn't from a recent episode? How did that meme become relevant?

@@leithaziz2716 I have no fucking clue. I think it's related to the cock edits (Whitebeard really does at one point yell out that One Piece is real, and he's the posterboy of the cock edits), but aside from that, it's an absolute mystery to me.

@@leithaziz2716 The episode aired in 2011

I never saw it as a meme I guess. I just saw it as one of the most iconic moments of one of the most talked about mangas ever and it was just news bouncing around lol. I guess my inner weeb just likes to hope that Sunday mornings are everyone's favorite morning to watch the Straw hats doing their shit lol

Yeah, I hate that meme cuz now non-OP people know that moment from the meme when it's actually one of the hypest moments in the series from literally the best anime father-figure character of all time. And, in case Woolie reads this, OP is correct it had nothing to do with what's going on in the story currently at all. The quote comes from something that happened over 10 years ago.

during Marineford

@@nyarancia Well I have tried that...but there seems to be some dropping point in between practicing stuff, and using it in a real match. My thinking just doesn't stay with me. I always fall back to what I feel like doing, instead of what I should be doing based on what I've practiced, what I've read from the enemy, or what the enemy has read off me. Because people in my life don't wanna play me, I would have to rely on online matches, and those just always seem to go poorly. Also I've gotta use WIFI for now, and I don't wanna burden other players with that. The modem is down a floor, and I used to have a 100ft ethernet cable, but....rats ate it.

Try to teach ur friends! There are a few vids about how to do that (don’t be overbearing, limit patterns etc…). At some point they might be able to kick ur ass if you guys have fun and you all learn how to accept loss as part of the process and sprinkle in some goofy fun.

@@GOLDENCHEESE34 see, that's exactly what I want...but it just ain't on the menu. The one I see the most and could teach, is actually my brother...but he isn't up for it. He wants to win, now. If he is losing, he isn't having fun, and he isn't willing to lose long enough to learn how to be better. We pick up a game that is fully new to both of us, he'll get beat, and then just stop playing. There are also the friends, where that losing, upsets them, gets them frustrated and angry, and then that kind of atmosphere completely sucks any fun that I may he having. Winning or no.

@@Vipes3 that sucks, I'm lucky to have at least 2 friends who are as stubborn as me when it comes to wanting to improve and win. I think some streamers have discords that have communities for this sort of thing but I always get anxious talking to people i don't know irl. Do u have an ethernet cable and online play? what games do u like?

@@GOLDENCHEESE34 My modem is down a floor, and I HAD a 100ft ethernet cable, until it got chewed through. I enjoy Smash, I used to be pretty into Skull Girls YEARS ago. I'm actually thinking about grabbing Street fighter 6 (and a new cable so I don't burden others) when that comes out. I've never really gotten into a SF game before, but it looks like they are putting so much effort into 6, and it would be pretty cool to get into a game I could reliably play online with a community. I've never been the, play online with strangers type, but that needs changing.

"shorter" *looks at run time of 1 hr and 9 minutes* 👀

The sarcasm *radiates* lmao

@@jjrambles683 that's the joke you mong

As someone who plays Team Fortress 2 and have heard of League tutorials, I hate that this may not be far from the truth.

It's not really that weird. Tutorials which are basically glorified glossaries of the game's mechanics aren't very effective for on-boarding. Many people will be overwhelmed and the people who do end up learning stuff from it probably would have looked up that information themselves outside of the game anyway if the game didn't tell them about it. The reason why other genres don't have Fighting game style Glossary tutorials isn't because the devs are lazy or because they can't "afford better tutorials," it's because it's been generally proven by several different developers across multiple genres that shorter tutorials that prioritize the most important information to enjoy the game on a basic level are better for onboarding and player retention than comprehensive tutorials that try to explain every mechanic of the game to the player.

@@Joltman11 The tutorials usually are clearly divided by novice / interm / expert. It's not the game's fault that the beginner wants to gobble all the information when it's telling him that's not for him for now. On the other hand, u have something like league that has one of the worst tutorials i've ever seen and straight up don't give you proper information as a beginner. Would be nice to have tutorials in other genres when you're not a beginner anymore instead of having to youtube it.

@@maxmin2434 Firstly, a lot of games don't make any sort of statement that you should come back and read more advanced sections later. And even among the ones that do, how many people do you actually think follow that advice? I imagine that the overwhelming majority of people either: A: Ignore the game's stop sign and go through all the tutorials B: Stop whenever they get bored and don't revisit the more advanced tutorials later C: Don't do any tutorials that the game doesn't force them to do Most people in general don't want to sit through shitloads of tutorials when they are first trying out a game, especially ones that constantly keep taking control away from them. This is still true in fighting games. I'm in a beginner-oriented discord, and when BBCF got rollback I had to explain all the game's mechanics to everyone who tried out the game because nobody played the tutorial. Several years ago, I played Killer Instinct online, which is a game that's fairly popular with casual players. Legit a third of the people I fought against when starting out didn't know how to block because they didn't play the tutorial. People as a whole don't like the fighting game glossary tutorial method for learning games. There's a reason why almost no other genre of game uses it. People shit on League's tutorial, but at a basic level it teaches you the absolute most important information in the game (Control with right click, not wasd. Use auto attacks and abilities to kill things. Destroy towers but don't draw aggro. Last hit minions for gold. ETC) while the player has control of the game the whole time, allowing them to experiment with the game's control scheme while they learn the rest of the game's essential mechanics. You can complain about all the stuff it leaves out, but I'm willing to bet it has a substantially higher completion percentage that most fighting game tutorials, and League almost assuredly has better player retention than any major fighting game out there right now so the lack of information provided by the tutorial clearly isn't having a negative effect in that regard. I'm not saying you can't have a glossary in your game for the people that actually desire that sort of thing. But an interactive glossary is not an effective way to teach beginners how to play your game because most people will be too bored by it and will either forget important information or not bother with it at all.

I think the problem is figuring out how to teach players the ins and outs of fighting games while keeping it engaging to learn. Then the developers need to put forth the time, and effort to make that happen which is not always a luxury they can afford.

Playlist here: kzfaq.info/sun/PLiSdC6Lp8c7Ph9D6vN1PW3lRLIhdu3Zbt

skill issue

@@gusbabiski for sure.

​@@Lakatujust play tekken

Have you seen our GIFG Newcomers episodes? They're all about starting from absolute scratch.

Skill issue