I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4x4 adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register. Here is my REACTS videos playlist - its purpose is for us all learning from other people's 4x4 drives. - kzfaq.info/sun/PLxCUUqtm329plBAWaZBTGQolmUBJnXMDU

Maybe the safest option would have been to attach the winch when he stalled the car i think? Mate with the Camera could have unspooled it and attached it to something, even without a tree protector it would have saved the car and given time to restart and reposition the vehicle?.

As mentioned these things happen very fast and he’d have huge adrenaline rush, as would everyone on that track , but in that situation I’d be thinking winch is the number one course of action. I know guys have winches unspooled ready for mud, but it might have also shaved off a few seconds in this scenario. But of course it’s easy to write this on the comfort of the couch.

This was on Deep Creek no4 in Aberfeldy Vic, very steep track and fairly rough. . Without lockers ( seemed he was unlocked front at least) only chance to drive its with some momentum, but yes finding that balance is the tricky bit. Once he was crossed up and went up the bank it was all over, having wheels opposite lock in that hill he still be gone for sure. Easy to say at home but was very precarious once he stopped, first priority should have been handbrake then winch, hope everyone OK bloody scary vid this one. .

The value of stall start knowledge and training is a lifesaver as is keeping the windows rolled up to prevent stray limbs being broken or injured by whipping branches. Being strapped in and everything secured. I really feel for him and hope he is okay. Great chanel, thanks Matt.

I noted the Rangie had quite large wheels possibly 35" and likely a min. 50mm lift. Not sure whether air pressure had been reduced. These issues would have added to high centrre of gravity and possibly part of the problem.

Also if you read the comments on the original video the uploader mentions snapped axle as he was ascending. The driver had injury on his back L2 vertibrae 3 months off work. Just search Deep Creek 4 rollover.

The Land Rover motto is: “As slow as possible. As fast as necessary.”

Easy to add commentary and what you have pointed out Matt, is what you have leant from years of practise. I hope the 4wd adventure drivers take note and tackle tracks their vehicle and driving skill / learned knowledge allows them to master. Obstacles/ tracks defeat us at times, knowing when to play safe and when to be gun ho comes with experience. We can all learn from this …….. around the camp fire while being ribbed by our mates for getting out the winch and playing safe🤗

Wow that was one terrifying rollover. I hope everyone in the vehicle were alright.

Ouch! I really hate seeing things like this happen. But I always learn something from your commentary and analysis. Thank you.

Matt, thanks for keeping your videos coming! Love em! Lake Havasu 🌞 Az USA

I was screaming WINCH! Before I tackle hard things I unspool my winch and hang it on my bar and then pre set the winch controller etc. with it ready to come in. Been in similar situation, winch saved me. It gave me enough to bring the front of the air, get everything resettled and reset the angle on the hill. I saw an arm out the window of passenger before roll over hope all are ok.

This video has circulated the web for years now. From memory it was Deep creek 4 track. One of the steepest tracks around Walhalla. (it may have been closed for a while now, i think). Notice the passengers arm on the outside before and during first few pucker moments. Minced left arm possibility. Also debris just shows what happends when vehicle tumbles at those speeds. Wouldve been like a washing machine with all that stuff inside flying around. If the rollover didnt hurt them , heavy stuff flying around inside , could've easily killed them. Store everyrhing behind cargo barriers folks.

I sure hope he pulled his wing back in the window! Well, he got it to turn over! Sure had quite a yard sale! I'd love to explore some of those trails, but slowly

The BEST thing to do is take your time to access the situation and consider your options, even if it was to take 1/2 hr!

Really good analysis and advice here.

Matt, thank you for analyzing a situation we could all find ourselves in. I’ve watched countless hours of off-roading videos (many of them on your channel), so I wasn’t expecting to see and learn much that I didn’t already know. I was wrong. For example, what you explained about wheel direction in that situation is the opposite of what I intuitively thought was correct. My thoughts were on forward movement. But as you correctly pointed out, due to the limitations of the braking system, there is a genuine risk of rolling backward, and that wheel orientation would result in a roll.

Wow I hope everyone is okay what a disaster. Great content once again Matt. Keep up the great work 👏👏👏

Yes, those Range Rovers have a servo, but it's not the most powerful and you should still be able to hold it on the hill without one. That was a deliberate design decision by Land Rover. I will add that those Range Rovers the handbrake is on the back of the transfer box, and whilst it's theoretically effective on all four wheels, that's only if the centre differential is locked and the wheels are of course on the ground. Being a nerd here, that Range Rover Classic being a later model has a viscous coupling in the transfer box that cannot be locked manually. Therefore, his handbrake would have been useless as his front wheel was off the ground. My second point is that most of those are automatics, and whilst it can be locked in first gear, it's not particularly low and is very similar to second gear in a manual Range Rover. Therefore, it's entirely possible he was in first gear, but even so he had excessive momentum as could clearly be seen. Manual vehicles have a ridiculously low first gear low ratio, something like a 2.7:1 reduction from high to low from the factory (assuming standard transfer ratios of 1.222:1 high, 3.321:1 low). This, however, could be saved the moment he stalled the vehicle (it does happen with automatics, done it myself). Provided he could hold the vehicle on the foot brake, someone could have attached his winch to a suitable anchor point to secure the vehicle until a plan could be made.

That's got to be a really steep hill. It looks steep on camera and cameras usually don't do justice to depict steepness. So, this has really to be much steeper than looks on video.

Thank you for this valuable lesson.

That sucks. Matt you have a great attitude

Great video! But I wish you had commented on how they could have avoided the roll. Maybe have the camera guy chock the wheels and then help use the winch.

My suggestion in this situation! The vehicle is parked, its fine! Put it in P, handbrake on, carefully exit the vehicle. Not tie it off to something sturdy, once it's not going anywhere, have a look around and plan what to do next, probably includes using the winch to prevent it from running away, and maybe tying it laterally to something to stop it from rolling until it as straight again.

That Landy seems to have very hard suspension and/or high tyre pressures. Combine that with too much speed meant a very bouncy ascent.

THANK YOU. APPRECIATED.

If you dig enough i think you can still find the original video, they were ok, can't remember if they walked away tho, he mentioned that he kept the spare tire behind the driver or passenger seat which is what prevented the roof from caving all the way in, this is just a straight up shortcut track, it is not a crazy hard track but very high risk as there is no trees close to the track to prevent a continuous rollover like this or even being able to get a quick winch too.

Hi Mat would it have been a good idea for his mate to get the winch out to secure the truck to a tree at the point where he stalled on the hill then once started winch out of the hole before driving again?

Just wow hope they made it out okay

And always keep your arms in the vehicle!!

“As slow as possible, as fast as necessary” that’s what I use when instructing and try to explain how much momentum to carry

For reference Re brake booster and roll over. Yes the stored vacuum can assist for a certain amount of cycles, however once the booster is exhausted - manual pedal effort of 60-80KG will generally apply enough force to control braking system. It requires more detailed and sensitive application - but can and will still work.

As far as I’m aware, and as a Range Rover owner myself, these models would have the Wabco brake module in them. Which means they operate electronically with an independent pressure servo operated by the vehicle’s electric circuit rather than vacuum from the engine! That means the brake will work even without the engine running, and just with the ignition on. However if this was a real early classic from the 70’s to early 80’s model, then the may have had the conventional vacuum system in them.

Finding the right tires for the terrain helps a ton.

Scary shit. Your right about trying to critique after the event but one thing I know 9 times out of 10 slow and steady will get you through more situations than a heavy right boot.

Very thorough and detailed analysis of the proceedings; can’t believe you completely missed the number one reason for the accident: too stiff suspension. Many Australian rigs suffer from this

Lockers and less speed, would change everything in these situations. Great analysis

I hope the guy is ok - but honestly, this was 100% the classic brainless ego 'send-it' attitude that caused this. Slow and controlled is the way. If you can't get up it in a controlled way (you can use momentum in a controlled way), then you can't get up it and you should go somewhere else. It's never worth possibly killing yourself.

Yes vic higcountry shortcut on one of deep creek tracks

That it a very unfortunate incident. As many have alluded to, hindsight is a wonderful thing but in any case the only option I would have chosen is a winch line. Thanks for the analysis MM

Especially when filming, there's an urge to be "heroic" in the way you tackle such an obstacle. Don't wanna look timid when you show the video to your mates

Nasty One,

Great analysis Matt. As someone who's just very recently switched from a modern, automatic IFS vehicle to an old school solid axle manual, I'm pretty conscious of these sort of risks and will be doing my best not to repeat them, we all make mistakes in the heat of the moment and unfortunately when 4wd'ing there's often not a big margin for error. The modern auto's are almost stall proof and really help a lot in these types of situations.

Don’t listen to KZfaqrs who tell you to send it and you’re some sort of hero if you don’t use your lockers. Can’t stand them.

That looked steep on TV so it was almost vertical IRL. I doubt everyone was OK after that but at least they all stayed in the vehicle. What's the point of a winch if you aren't going to use it? The mind boggles at what it cost to recover that from there.

Crazy roll over. Definitely would of hooked up the winch in that parcarious position. 😬

He should have used a winch, but discounting that, I wonder if he could have saved it by turning the wheels the other way and jamming the transmission into first. It might have broken his transmission, but it might have been worth the try to slow his decent in combination with his weak brakes. However, someone mentioned he broke an axle, so that might not help as much.

That's got to hurt I hope they are ok but definitely a situation not be in and also if in doubt slow down you got plenty of time to get up there

Matt, that’s a horrible situation to be it, It happened to us last summer in the VIC High country, vacuum lost boost and was heavily reliable on the hand brake to keep us on the hill. I’m now looking at installing an electric brake vacuum booster.. if you stall the engine, you still got 12v driven vacuum.. thoughts Matt?

3 basics of 4wding 1. never go alone 2. wear your seat belt 3. make sure handbrake works. what caused the issue was he kept spinning the wheels sliding the back of car side ways and put him in a bad spot. if he stopped when he got to top it could get tied to a tree and get further up.

First thing I thought about was the steering wheel position 😮

I know that side track, I have driven it before & it is steep. Not a track you would want to stop on. Probably should have pulled the winch out as soon as it stalled, but might have had not enough time as well.

This is why people need proper training. Most people don’t have any idea about stall recoveries.

The main issue is that they were attempting an old track that had been ripped and dozed. not fit for usage.

His rear left wheel is rolling up a big step. So no matter which way the front wheel is pointing, he is going to roll if the car goes backwards. The only way to save is go forward, which is quite difficult. The safest way is to winch. A good spotter would have save him as well.

Have done this track down walhalla way, nasty track nasty accident, all that was needed was his spotter to take control of the situation, he had better eyes on what was happening and about to happen, I would’ve used winch to secure first, he would’ve been able to bring brake booster back to life with the added support, pulled himself out of that ugly angle and then continued up with the help of winch and spotter, I cringed when I spotted his arm out window, silly boy !! I know it’s an old vid but hope everyone was ok Thanks for your videos/ input Matt, nice commentary 👌✌️

That is a nasty roll over. Matt I think it is so valuable these kinds of videos you do where you respectfully go over & break down what goes wrong in such situations. So along with what you said about it being easy to point out the mistakes & what you would do differently, I think no matter how simple the mistakes actually are they can happen to anyone regardless of skill level or what kind of mega rock crawler you have. Of course this is not a 4wd drive example, but I was thinking of Peter Brock's death, he was an exceptionally skilled driver. A moment of inattention, distraction, a wrong decision, feeling off that day, an argument with someone that dominated his thoughts. It could be any number of things that can bring us undone. What you said about how it was a good thing he was not alone in that disaster & I thought of my situation of how I am usually go it alone because I am not good with people, that I don't want help, that I done what to owe someone, that I done want to be a burden, I have been told all my life in one form or another that I am a burden & I think a good number of people (not all, probably not most.). Feel that way. I go out bush to get away from people but ironically I do like the social aspect of 4wdinging & how it seems to bond & foster community. I just have only ever been a spectator to that & not put myself out of my comfort zone to extend myself to that. So this video made me think, that maybe in some ways @ least I should consider extending myself , not just so I can improve my chances of survival & have others back me up, but that someone else might for the 1st time in my life see that I have things to contribute. If I am ever in such an accident I would want it to have value beyond my own self centric personal tragedy. So now I am inspired, I think I know how I can convince a 4wd group or club to let me join. I sell the story that I am a really bad "wheela" ( I am not implying the Landy driver was a bad driver here) & that they can film me if they let me wheel with them & I will just wheel the best that I can :0) Thanks Matt! I noticed something else in that video, this might be a perceptual illusory exaggeration because of the camera angle but @ the point in the video where the Landy comes to a stop on its roof, some of the way down the hill, there is a vehicle behind & off to the right, what looks like, parked on a very precarious angle. What you said about the booster only having a limited amount of pressure once the engine stalls was something I had never thought about, I just have unconsciously & automatically restart the engine, I have never not had it restart in similar situations, so I wonder if it does not consciously occur to a lot of people. Great video!

I would like to criticise but a couple weekends ago a found my self doing a rookie error while doing a water crossing which was i didnt follow my mate that crossed in front and went a different line without actual looking to see if it got deep, nothing went wrong as water only got to the lights instead of just 1/4 up the wheels but i thought how easily it could of gone bad

And if that wasn't an option, using the handbrake plus pedal, also support front wheels with a rock behind it to avoid rollback. Rear Locker on maybe to get the most forward momentum going.

Well, on the bright side, he can do a full roll cage install for a lot less than a few days ago.

Hope old mate was OK. I don't like seeing stuff like this but I learn off these videos. Going slow, auto and twin locked helps I suppose. Never be ashamed to pull the winch out even if your mates bag you out. Yeah, yeah, Yeah I had to winch while the rest of the convoy got up that hill easy but I still have my car and limbs in one piece and more importantly, my life.

Phaaaarrrrrkkk!!!! That's a ride I'll pass on...

I like the way you break down the incident without making the driver look like an idiot

Holy Shivers

Wasn't there and hate to be there, only thing I would have done straight way as camera man, drop camera to careful chock wheels with rocks to hole cars position being vhc trees are everywhere, drag the with rope to a tree just so we have a safe car before trying to start and everything. That's may not have worked but if I was the camera man I would have just droped camera

I really want a run at that hill, looks like fun. I'd crawl it though instead of gunning of it like buddy

Ahhhh. You should of called me. You know I’m the Vic 4wd guru 😂. I know the guy that filmed this. I was even meant to be on the trip with them.

madmatt If you had a winch on the front and the guy in the red shirt should've taken the winch up to the nearest tree now we know you'll have to use tree protector strap but in the emergency getting that hook around the tree not one but two loops around the tree and hook it to the the cable. At least this will give you some form of insurance and safety and at the same time you can relax a little bit and focus on a recovery

Great detailed video. From my experience, that's too quick and lack of thinking. For me, that's a 4L & 1st gear crawling up it at 1500- 2000RPM feeling the track, listening to the vehicle and taking it easy hill climb. Not saying I have never had any issues off road which I have with loosing traction on Step hills but that's where a little training came into it and I was able to get out of it relatively easy. This video here, he would have realised it wasn't a good situation. Rule of thumb, if it becomes unstable or you are stressing, get help with a winch or have the spotter do something. Lucky they didn't die. Done many track up and down the east coast and the one thing I see is not using the gears. Climbing or decending steep hills you do it slow and in the lowest gears you have. The amount of times I've seen people going down on there brakes and the 4wd taking off cause of it. A little thinking can save your life and vehicle

Hope they okay. Can i ask how do insurance providers go with this kind of mishap

😢 I've had to back off a very steep climb on one hold of the brake booster(Stalled FJ40) low range and in reverse so I had the engine resistance. It was a HARROWING EVENT. We made it down🙏🏻,, but honestly,, I was never the same after that. 🤦‍♂️ It was a rock face that I'd done many times in the past. Circumstances can change in a split second. Very scary. My PTSD of that day is very real. Please 🙏🏻 be safe out there.

ooh nasty. I was lucky in my auto 60 when she flooded going up a steep incline, conked out and being auto just flew back down hill. brakes had issues too and throwing in park did nothing. I'm glad it was smooth but a slight bend and kept pumping brakes til they worked. I winched up after that and a good calm down. The handbrake was a typical Toyota lol. my scariest experience yet.

Would it help to crank it in the 1. gear?

The Rangie owner's channel is here: www.youtube.com/@proorty and it includes the original uncut video as well as other videos of the same vehicle. In comments on the video he mentions breaking an axle as well as suspecting the distributor cap came off during the climb. I'm not sure how you would determine the cap came off during the climb rather than the rollover, but if the owner knew his vehicle well enough then it's possible he knew the fail to start was as a result of the cap. In the uncut video one of the guys uphill can heard saying: "Why didn't he wait for the f#cking winch".

Was that Andrew St Pierre White behind the driving wheel?

I’d say it stalled because it’s a manual and he stalled it by letting off both throttle and clutch to jump on the brakes And I’d have the agree that it is the highcountry, I’ve been going there since I was a kid as it’s local to me

It’s fun they said

Would the cup of tea rule apply? I mean whilst the vehicle is secure, it's not super time critical. The driver could have asked for help and maybe tied it down or chocked the wheels or discussed mode of attack rather than panicking.

Lack of control from use of manual transmission. Autos are best for offroad unless you have a highly geared transfer case >100:1 final drive. Too many mistakes occur on inclines with manuals. Stalling leads to no brake boost unless you're running an electric over hydraulic system like in the Rovers.

Original here, including comments by the driver. You can also hear people calling out “why didn’t he wait for the winch”. The guy in the red shirt was communicating about setting up a winch and the driver declined. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pJ2YfcZ_lauvoHU.html

Yep, I'd say a 3.5 V8 Range Rover carb engine, so yes, will have a brake booster servo. Hand Brake should have been good though as no obvioous oil contamination! It could either be a 3 spd auto or a 4/5 spd manual, hard to tell. but going for the auto to be fairas I don't think the manual would have held power out that long. I'd have probably got the guy out there to get the winch line to something, anything... I suspect it wasn't that he was loosing brake pressure through mechanical means, more through body just can't hold the pedal so hard for long. It does show how a few little different inputs can make something go so much more wrong. Looking at the hill, I'm not sure he'd have got down in one bit whatever, kinda a "do or die" hill really.

But they had a lot of fun I think. We know better is his opinion

thats hectic, if old mate had his lockers on and had the right tyre pressure he could of just crawled that

Number one thing to do in a stall like that is secure the vehicle, ignition off, 1st gear, low range, handbrake, then take a few deep breaths to reassess. Get out and look around and assess where your wheels need to go. If you have a winch, use it. If you don't, leave it in gear, 1st gear, low range, hold the handbrake and turn the key. A vehicle like that will pull forward on the starter motor in low range first, and will probably start. If it does, apply just enough throttle to crawl out. If it doesn't, resecure the car again and reassess.

Oh , dash , bother, and blow. It was a decent sausage roll. Hope all is OK.

I’m guessing Brown Gouge did well out of this one.

I would be wearing my seatbelt as a lap rather than fully in that situation unless a Roll Bar fitted

What if he put the car in reverse and keep starting the engine while going backwards? He might have got his brakes back. Or using the winch? I guess everything happened so fast and he didn't think it'd be that bad. Hopefully they are fine.

According to the original video it was a 120 Prado. It’s not very clear but I can’t see the Land Rover stepped roof or the safari windows.

I see a lot of videos on You Tube with people pushing there vehicles some with more knowledge than others and wonder if these give the less experienced drivers dutch courage.

“Send-it” can be a fatal disease.😬

I think the two biggest mistakes were that 1) when his front wheel lifted off the ground and he stopped going forwards, he should have stopped so that his car didn't wedge itself in more sideways. 2) after he ended up in the situation where the car was stalled and sideways, he should have just winched out. Though... I suppose if his brakes just failed then he wouldn't have had time for that, so go back to point #1 :\

Jeepers thats a rollon my goodness never had this happen

Did he make it out okay?

Not sure how fast they were actually going - it looked like parts of the video had been sped up?

Should have had 12 to 15psi in tyres. Should have stalled it in gear, selected reverse, restarted engine. Should have steered to keep it perpendicular to the contour. Should keep arms inside the windows.

That winch should've come out ASAP. End of story

I think that once he had it stopped at the top, he should have got the other guy to pull out the winch and attach him to a tree. Once he was secure, then he could have got off the brakes to start the car. Pain in the arse to do, but safety first every time and he would still have a car.

This happened about 4 years ago roughly on ortons track just out of dargo vhc. Ortons track is in the top 10 hardest tracks in aus. Recommended only experienced drivers with well set-up vehicles and diff lockers.. Turning the wheels full lock the other way 100% would of been the wrong thing to do, crossed up like that on the angle Turning the wheels will of made him roll sooner. It's a steep track and i mean steep... This fella wasn't the first to roll here and most certainly won't be the last