By having Jay man the cameras, they forced him to listen to them talk about Star Trek for an hour again. He cannot escape.

CBS called RLM to get Mike's input on Picard, but Jay answered the phone

“Jay do you know who the Cardassians are?” “Like Kim and Chloe?” “No......”

Rich's rant about ruining Star Trek in terms of shitting on the dream of humanity turning out ok hit really hard.

Franchises don't die by being cancelled anymore, it's now a form of multi-generational mental torture where everything good is destroyed bit by bit until no one can remember what was good about them in the first place. The giant Borg cube is the ultimate form of JJ Abrams Mystery Box, filled w/the ashes of Trek.

Star Trek: Picard. Written by: Jay Bauman.

Writers: "let's make a political statement on our show about racism" Show: "racism still exists and is still used to justify atrocities, we're fucked give up" Writers: HELL YA!

Rich’s comment on the Star Trek Lincoln moment is such an honest moment of longing it hurt to listen to. He is so right.

Mike: “The writers know as much about Star Trek as Jay does.” Jay: “Yup!” Pure Gold

As someone who doesnt know much about Star Trek, when Rich described the Abe Lincoln thing, I understood. And now I feel really bad for old Star Trek fans.

I learned so much about Trucker culture and tradition in this episode.

"The writers know as much about Star Trek as Jay does." 1. Everything is so clear now. 2. That's an insult to Jay, because Jay also knows that he doesn't know a whole lot about Star Trek, and the writers don't know that about themselves.

Kurtzman - “I spoke to JJ. He’s bringing back the Emperor who was exploded twice. That means we can find parts of Data in the explosion. He only exploded once.”

Watched Picard ep1 with my wife, who is not a Trek fan, and she was like "was Data his lover?"

The only way I can accept "Picard" as canon is the alternate "pathetic picard" Q timeline

It's so depressing. When I saw the first trailer for "Picard" I got very excited, thinking it was going to be about Jean-Luc being an ambassador and diplomat, like Spock did in the latter portion of his life. But that was before I knew the awful truth about Kurtzman.

"J. J. Abrams doesn't care about space" Damn. He went there.

"The bi-annual Star Trek funeral" is the most depressingly accurate way to describe this.

17:45 Rich has NEVER made a better point than he does here, defending Gene Roddenberry's optimistic vision against this forgettable product of rank-and-file sci-fi writers who, believing they've done a service for everyone, have just kept us mired in shortsighted political thinking.

I wouldn't say Picard didn't care about Data at all. Id say by the end of the series (not nemesis) he at least considered him a comrade. The level of obsession he has with him here is bat shit crazy by the writers tho.

First 30 seconds: "Bianual Star Trek funeral..." I wonder if they like it.

"I will never leave you" says the 90 year old man.

"May I ask your name?" "Its Dawsh" "Dodge?" "Mhm, Dashj"

Star Trek is hoping for a future where we overcome the terrible things that hold us back; today's issues are *usually* supposed to be reflected in a *different context*. Different planets, different cultures, aliens, etc. We see our problems reflected in a different context. I feel like Picard misses the mark because instead of that layer of abstraction, they just decided "HEY WHAT IF THE FEDERATION WERE ACTUALLY AMERICA?!" It's crude, it's awkward, it doesn't *work*, and it's depressing.

“Don’t discount anything that’s too stupid. So, OK, Romulans in biker costumes attack Picard and the little girl.” Best back-to-back sentences, ever.

Rich's frustration at their portrayal of racism is so pure & inspiring.

“Maybe it won’t suck” famous last words

When Mike says "I wish they never made the Next Gen movies, I wish it just ended there," with the final scene of 'All Good Things..." He speaks for me as well. I never was completely happy with Generation, First Contact, Insurrection, or Nemesis. I think the decline of Star Trek really started there, culminating with the early cancelation of Enterprise. JJ swooped in like a necromancer to resurrect the corpse, but he filled it with the soul of a completely different type of franchise.

Everyday of life must be extremely stressful for JJ and his friends. Earth's sun could go supernova literally any day now.

Rich: Do you know Cardassians? Jay: Uh, like Kim and Klohe and... Mike with his eyes closed, trying really hard to stop his mind from leaving his body

"Maybe it won't suck." Rich, you were so innocent. We all were.

The fact that the thumbnail depicts Mike and Rich seemingly posing as the Picard facepalm meme, but it turns out that those facepalms occured organically multiple times throughout the video, is very telling.

"Do you know what the trouble is? The trouble is Earth. On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. It's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the demilitarized zone all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints, just people. Angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not." -Benjamin Sisko DS9 wasn't darker because Starfleet was a bunch of cunts, it was darker because it took place in the fringes of civilized space, away from the ideal society and the ability to just fly away at the end of the episode. Also, Garak is best character.

I love that, "Jay, do you know about Vahj?" "No" "The writers don't know about Vahj." It's conclusive, I love it.

Mike with his written, physical pieces of paper always gets a good chuckle from me

As a truck driver I find this intro f****** hilarious.

Seeing Rich get emotional about the Lincoln scene was actually kind of moving. I love that the idea of optimism can still inspire people.

I hate how we can't just have nice things anymore. Everything has to be deconstructed into a dystopia. Nihilism is seen as wisdom reserved for the mature, and pissant misanthropy is worn like a badge of honor.

20:52 to 21:10 is heartbreaking. You hear Rich's childhood come out about how inspiring Star Trek's progressivism is. That we are so far passed hate we cannot even remember it. Then you hear how they have flipped all that upside down and all Rich can say is "fuck that" over and over again, with such pain that, literally, a part of his childhood might have been ruined by this.

Like Rich, I loved that moment with Lincoln and Uhura. That for me was far more progressive and hopeful than the far more often referenced "First interracial kiss". Which in context of its episode is basically both of them being victims of sexual assault, as telepaths mind controlled them to do it against their wills.

Waiting for the moment Picard says "Reconfigure" and an Enterprise forms around his body before he punches Borg cubes into the sun.

You can see Rich's pain about the loss of that optimistic future. My heart breaks.

I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a WALL around the Federation.

This is also post Dominion War, where the Romulan helped defeat the Dominion. The embargo was ended and relations with the Romulan Star Empire had never been better.

Rich sounds lke he's either going to spontaneously cry OR laugh the entire time. You guys are awesome, thank you for what you do.

The Federation not helping the Romulans doesn't make sense. This is all happening post Dominon War, where the Romulans joining with the Federation and Klingons in an alliance is what saved the Alpha Quadrant.

Man I almost wish I didn't watch this. I was never a huge Star Trek fan, but I always had a soft spot for it due to it's optimistic vision of the future. Seeing that scene with the "reporter" was like seeing someone go back in time to when I was 8 years old and thinking "Wow, Captain Picard is such a good man", then punching me in the face and telling me to "Grow up you fucking nerd". In a weird way it's kind of funny with just how wrong it all is, but like... I genuinely feel bad.

Watching Mike struggle so hard to not make old people jokes is incredible

Just wait til they see the showrunners' attempt to compete with the Baby Yoda craze... Picard's adventures with Baby Data.

Rich being the one explaining pronounciations to someone else is the greatest achievement of Picard.

7 months late on this comment but I'd love to see you two discuss Deep Space 9

Remember when Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country had a similar situation where the Klingon Empire also experienced a catastrophe and required federation Aid, or at least peace? Remember how smart that movie handled the topic and the struggles of forgiving and aiding an enemy. Yeah just watch that instead.

Rich to Jay: "do you know Cardassian?" Jay: "Like Kim and Khloe?" Rich: _Hello darkness my old friend_ "no..."

"Jay, do you remember Vaash?" "...no?" "OK, then the writers don't remember that."

I'm rewatching this today, having learned that Kurtzman's contract with CBS has been extended. "Anger" doesn't even begin to cover it.

If Kurtzman got involved with the Tolkein universe, world peace would be achieved by the mutual understanding and evolving love between a heroic elven prince and a tough but misunderstood orc who bond over their mutual jujitsu skills.

Could've watched at least 3 more hours of Mike and Rich analyzing Star Trek, it never gets old.

Fun Fact: This review is 44 seconds longer than the actual episode.

DS9 Is gritty but because it's as Bashir puts it "Frontier medicine". When Sisko says my favourite line "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" , he still acknowledges the existence of paradise. Can't compare what Steven Behr and JJ did, the former just added nuance to the universe by showing the least privileged part of a "perfect" society populated by imperfect beings trying to survive in an imperfect universe, the latter just rewrote it as generic popcorn sci-fi that doesn't know how stars works.

When they made the joke about Data being Picards lovers, all I could think about was that one moment from the episode where Data and Picard are traveling to romulus to find Spock. ( Unification Part one, I think- ) And while they are waiting to reach romulus they end up staying in the same quarters, as Picard does his best to try and sleep, without being freaked out by data who's just standing in the corning of the room staring at him.

„I believe he means television, sir. That particular form of entertainment did not last much beyond the year 2040.“ (Data in the episode „The Neutral Zone“)

One of the good things about the age of Star Trek that we live in is that whenever I listen to Mike and Rich talk about it, I'm immediately inspired to go back and watch the original shows.

Gotta defend DS9 a bit. It is darker then most of the other Star Trek shows, however, it still has so much life and joy. It analyzes themes of loss and trauma while also contrasting with themes of healing and growth. Like I love Sisko and Jake's relationship, it is so loving nice. I love the character growth and development. Watching Picard frustrated me because it felt like everyone involved didn't understand that there is a difference between acknowledging dark or traumatic things, and writing like that is all there is. Grimdark is an awful trend and I hate it. DS9 acknowledges some of the sadder things of life and the world, but it never forgets to remind people of the wonderful aspects of life. That fundamentally, things can be bad, but they will get better, because life is good. DS9 just feels alive to me, and I love it for it.

So coming back to this after rewatching TNG, I think Picard had positive feelings towards Data, but not enough to make him a stand-out individual in Picard's life outside of the novelty. I'd say his strongest relationship with the formal crew was actually Worf. I know Mike and Rich don't care much about the Klingon politics, but those episodes really showed off a level of investment and respect in Worf that Picard didn't demonstrate in nearly any other character. Not saying Picard should've been having dreams about Worf instead, but that Picard did form bonds just in his own way and not like a Kirk or Sisko.

I thought Rich Evans was over in China trying to find a cure for that new virus.

So nobody remembers Jack Crusher? Dr. Beverly' Crusher's husband who died??? On TNG Picard outright said Jack was his best friend, and they both served together for years on the Stargazer. Picard felt guilty about his death because some situation happened on an away team mission where Picard had to make a command decision to leave Jack behind in order to save others. (Which perhaps explains why he distanced himself more from his crew later in life.) Even when Jack was still alive, Jean-Luc had a crush on Beverly, which made for some complicated, guilt- laced romantic tension throughout the TV show. I would argue Picard was much closer to Beverly than Data and knew her for a much longer period of time. Also, if the events of Nemesis are being referenced so much for the plot's sake with Data's sacrifice and B-4, I assume all the other lackluster TNG movies are also canon. That means that Picard is living in the same place where his brother and nephew were horribly burned to death in a fire (Generations.). Yet he's being haunted by dreams of Data...

I love the idea of someone rushing into the smoldering remains of the Enterprise D on Veridian III to retrieve the Captain Picard Day banner.

Here’s the thing: G type yellow stars, like our sun, don’t even go supernova to begin with. They become a red giant, and then a white dwarf. Stars large enough to go supernova are way too hot and too short lived to allow life to emerge around them. Because guess what - the emergence of life on a planet takes eons, too.

They should have had 74 cuts of Picard walking up the stairs in 9 seconds.

Final lines of the finale: “What is your name girl?” “Dodger Picard.”

RLM Star Trek: Picard re:View drinking game: every time Rich says he'll give Picard "the benefit of the doubt," take three shots. (the goal here is to try and forget that you just watched Picard)

I cannot believe it's been 3 years.

"The smudgy, disgusting fingerprints of J. J. Abrams and Alex Kurtzman." Yup!

Some other thing which bothered me: I suspect that they shot everything in 16:9 and then some producer came by and said it must look more cinematic, crop it. The shot at San Francisco, every skyscraper is chopped off. The shot of the Eiffel Tower, the antenna is chopped off. Inside the archive, the banner is chopped off in nearly every scene.

I would argue that the relationship between Data and Picard was at best a stepfather figure. We see Picard and Data bonding over things that Picard shows interests in like classical literature and theater so as that Data could better understand what it is to be a person. I remember several episodes where Picard and Data are on the holodeck and Picard is critiquing Data's Shakespeare performance, which usually consisted of him explaining the deeper meaning of the seen to us common people.

This droids blowing up Mars stuff seems like a tortured 9/11 analogy

The passion in Rich's voice talking about his favourite episode killed me

"BELIEVABILITY IS EVERTHING. IT IS THE MOST ESSENTIAL ELEMENT OF ANY STAR TREK STORY." (Roddenberry in "Writers/Directors Guide" of TNG. Yes, he used capital letters!!!)

In a world with FTL travel, supernovas can be avoided pretty easily.

"Stop shitting on Star Trek, man". Rich sums up my feelings nicely.

Please go back and review the entire series when it's over and call it "Half in the Borg."

"Earl Grey" ... "Decaf" Star Trek: Decaffeinated

In walks Doctor Wesley crusher to turn off Picards Hollow Deck program as if was malfunctioning and interfering with Picards Alzheimer's treatment. the end

I love how Mike has an "old man yelling at clouds" moment about Dahjs name.

I really just want a show with Mike and Rich rambling about random Star Trek episodes for an hour.

Rich Evans: "I didn't hate it..." Put that review on the dvd box cover.

I remember as a kid thinking Star Trek was interesting but I never got into it. Then I watched some again when I was older and thinking it was really good. I can’t claim to be a fan but even a casual viewer like me understands that universes basic rules. Violence is a last resort and only to stop the threat. Not to kill if possible. Not to cripple if possible. Most people in the 23rd and 24th century are enlightened and don’t dwell on petty things for the most part. Generally speaking everyone gets along. And most importantly there is a huge emphasis on solving problems with logic. Just watching the trailers to the show told me everything I needed to know about this. Star Trek isn’t an action series. It isn’t meant to be a series that is set in a dystopia. It’s supposed to be a peak into humanities hypothetical future should humanity choose to come together and focus all of our efforts on growing mankind, Developing technology, divorcing ourselves from the pettier things like Greed, xenophobia, warmongering and so on. In short the show is a “hey look how great we out descendants could have it if we stop being dipshits and start improving things.” That is a message that we need to have now more than ever and yet in the face of divisive times and political turmoil we are given a show that instead says “humanity is never gonna improve. Anything good we do will be undone and eventually we will be the same idiots we are today but with fancier stuff to blow each other up with”. The fuck kind of message is that? Nihilistic, pessimistic, cynical and borderline offensive to anyone with any knowledge of the setting. Even though I’m not a huge fan of the series, it depresses me to see because it’s the same damn thing with Star Wars.

@19:47 Rich makes the best argument for why the original Star Trek encapsulated hope for a future without prejudices. Wonderful Rich Evans moment!

The last scene in TNG "The Chase" when Picard and the Romulan General have that great little conversation... "Maybe we aren't dis-similar after all..in our hopes...in our fears...perhaps one day" PIcard says .."Yes Perhaps.." with that hope in his voice. That is an episode that defines the philosophy of Star Trek...a future of peace and striving for understanding, not this alternate Universe.

JJ Abrams has the highest confirmed kills on sci fi series in the world

I don’t watch Star Trek but as a heartbroken Star Wars fan, I love seeing other fans as miserable as I am

20:57 I could not agree more w/ Rich! Star Trek is supposed to be inspirational, a goal to aim for; not the crap you see in Picard.

I love that poor Jay couldn’t escape Star Trek even when he’s not even in the video

In fairness that one scene of 'Data' attacking Worf in the elevator was Lore posing as Data

Mike mistakenly calls Alison Pill's character "Ellen" at 39:15, just like how Will McAvoy mistakenly called her character "Ellen" in the first episode of The Newsroom. It's like poetry, it rhymes.

Even DS9, though much darker, still held the values of the Federation as important. Two instances I would hold up are the episode "In the Pale Moonlight", and Quark and Garak's conversation in "The Way of the Warrior". "In the Pale Moonlight" Sisko completely betrays the ideas of the federation and of his position. But he does it to save BILLIONS of lives. He chooses the lives and well being of people over everything else, which I think can at least be argued to be a moral thing to do. And even then he feels the weight of that betrayal. As to Quark and Garak's conversation. They use the metaphor of Root Beer to discuss how they feel like they have been contaminated by the Federation and their beliefs. Each coming from a culture where you lie, cheat and steal as a matter of course and some version of "The strong do as they wish, the weak suffer what they must" exists as the standard, are initially sickened and bewildered by the Federation's version of humanism. Yet the more they are around it, the more those kinds of ideas have grown on them. For beliefs or messages to mean anything, they must be challenged in some way so they those ideas can be shown to survive and be correct. I think DS9 did that. Afterward, I think the wheels fell off.

I partially disagree with Rich here. DS9 was leagues more faithful to the Roddenberrian vision than this Bad Robot crap is. DS9 took the principles of TOS and TNG and put them to the test against the philosophies of the various alien races they encountered. It was Roddenberry utopianism, but faced with adversity; utopianism, but not in a vacuum. DS9 did delve into various moral gray areas, but never did it openly shit on the Federation or its values. Indeed it passionately defended them. Even Sloan from Section 31, who personally exemplifies this sort of DS9 moral grayness, declared that the defense of the Federation AND ITS VALUES is why men like him were necessary.

Keeping up with the Cardassians. Coming this fall to CBS All Access.

All the random space information these men have gathered through their interest in this show and its many cast off is amazing

I couldn't even care less about Star Trek, I'm just here to listen to Mike and Rich tear Alex Kurtzmann apart.