I had not heard Ormandy’s cut version until working my way thru the Sony early stereo box set. I had played the work in college (with cuts) and thought the cuts undermined the structural integrity of the piece. Previn’s uncut version convinced me there was no going back. Ormandy’s uncut version was a snooze fest for me; I felt he was just too old to get it (I was all of 23). Hearing Ormandy’s early account blew my mind. I was mesmerized by every note in his careful shaping of the opening. And he maintained my attention all the way thru to such an effect that I listened to it 3 times in a row to be sure I was hearing what I was hearing. And, for the first time, I wasn’t even aware of the cuts! You, David, have turned me into a nut case Ormandy fan and my bank account will never forgive you.

I really love/enjoy this series, and especially the fact that you give a history & explanation on way/how. Keep'em coming 👍

Hi Dave, I hope the new reference recordings series continues, it will be fun to do comparisons using those as the reference. I'd never heard the Verdi from your previous video, but sure enough when I streamed it and comparing it against others it made complete sense. And was entertaining to do too!

So glad you included the Previn recording. It’s hard for me to imagine a better one.

Classics Today tee shirts are great to wear to concerts. We had a great program here with the Tucson Symphony, Uncut Rach Sym 2 as the 2nd half, and Florence Price Violin Cto 1 on the first half. Opening with Marquez Conga. The symphony did not seem overlong at all. Another regional orchestra with real quality. And innovation. The Temirkanov was my first uncut version. I liked it so much I also got the cassette (back in the day) to play in the car.

I saw Ormandy conduct no.2 and very happy I did! Glorious!

Dave, I really enjoy your Reference Recording series. This Rachmaninoff Sym. 2 with Ormandy is a very fine choice. I still remember the thrill I felt in purchasing the Columbia LP of his cut version, and like yourself I love his later uncut recording. May I just share a third available recording, a DVD of Ormandy doing the cut version. It's a real gem ! It's so wonderful to watch the Maestro's sensitive, unobtrusive conducting, and hears the melodies soar forth upon us with their beautiful waves of sound. Thank you, Dave!

This presentation was of particular interest to me, since I have been engaged over the past year or so in a renewed exploration and comparison of Rachmaninoff cycles (symphonies and concertos). Ten years ago, I would have said Ormandy/Sony is the likely reference recording. It's wonderful, as is the Previn (more about that later). But recently I've renewed my acquaintance with Slatkin/Vox and his Symphony 2, and indeed his whole cycle, seems worthy of reference recording status. At least for me, personally. It has all the sweep and passion of Ormandy and Previn, but with a more rhythmically propulsive edge that gives the work a sharper profile overall. One final word for potential readers of this comment. Warner has come up with an unbeatable Rachmaninoff package by coupling the entire Previn cycle of orchestral music (including the Bells) with the Lugansky/Oramo concerto cycle. A real winner that, all in a space-saving box.

Yes! Previn was the one I said as soon as I saw title of this video!

I have a number of recordings of this symphony, my own favourite being the Ormandy/Philadelphia version for its full-blooded approach and its presence in a Rach. box set from some years ago. The Previn/LSO (EMI) version introduced me to this wonderful work, and the LSO also made another recording with Gennadi Rohdevensky (spelling?) on a budget label - excellent value. I have the Detroit recording, but for me it lacks the sonic sweep and excitement of the much older Ormandy disc.

I have several versions including that one by Ormandy on LP and CD

I grew up with the Previn/LSO recording of the full version (he also recorded the 'cut' version with the LSO earlier), but think his later version with the RPO on Teldec is a much better performance and recording; Jeff Bryant's horn section blaze through the texture at the end of the Finale. I seem to recall an LPO recording of the version with cuts conducted by Adrian Boult on Decca. James Loughran's recording of the full version with the Hallé Orchestra on Classics for Pleasure (EMI) was another one I bought, many years ago. I've got the Ormandy version with the cuts also but would never want to be without Slatkin's earlier St. Louis recording. However, the full Previn/LSO version will always have a special place in my collection.

I haven't heard this one, but I love the later one (1985) Previn did with the Royal Philharmonic on Telarc.

As I'm watching this video I can see KZfaq 's recommendations on the right of the screen. One is for a channel called Classical Music/ Reference Recording and their choice for reference recording is Kurt Sanderling and the Leningrad Philharmonic. Well, maybe that's all they have.

I prefer the intact version with the 1st movement exposition repeat. The repeat is well set up to seem fresh on it's restatement.

I Love the Philly Rachmaninoff 2 (and other symphonic works).....the perfect Orchestra for Rachmaninoff....

While 8 times out of 10, I agree with the reference recording, on this occasion, I definitely chose elsewhere. Not saying Previn's recording was bad, it's great, but after listening to all the recommended recordings from various critics and fans...I still stay true to Ashkenazy with RCO ( I know Dave you are not a fan of this one), but for me, it is the Symphony that got me into classical music in the first place 25 years ago, still gives me goosebumps and warmth like no other.

Just as a footnote to your views about the English musical establishment, my copy of The Oxford Companion to Music (10th Edition 1984 printing) makes the following comment in its brief entry on Rachmaninoff '. . as a composer he made a mark with a number of works, skilfully written, but for the most part inspired by no very strong national or personal feeling, being cosmopolitan and general in their expression.' If there is such a thing as objectivity in criticism, this must surely count as one of the most misconceived judgements ever.

Your comment on critics' rivalries at 6:00 made me spit out my tea in laughter, David. Thank you.

There has been a bone of contention about the very ending note of the first movement. Rachmaninov originally scored it for just the lower strings but many conductors replace it with a timpani stroke on the lower note of E natural on the 32 inch drum Pentrenko with the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra is an example

I sometimes wonder how many people who love classical music and symphonic music in particular have any notion of where the exposition ends or the development starts or when we've started the recapitulation.....

Both great recordings, with perhaps the NEW reference recording being Slatkin with Detroit, a brilliant part of a brilliant cycle.

Great video, as usual. I think that the popularity of this series is that you are validating our choices. Ha ha. Could the cuts have been to accomodate the LP recording format? Just asking.

All the reference recordings you have talked about so far are analogue recordings and are generally heard to best effect on vinyl if clean pressings are available. I am not anti digital but it is interesting to speculate to what extent the sound recording method contributed to the greatness of these recordings. The reference recordings series is excellent.

Dave...have you ever noticed (Im sure you have) that Rachmaninoffs melodies at times dont seem to end? Think of the famous clarinet solo in the Slow movement of the 2nd....and the vocalise....and on and on.....when R. comes to a place where there should be an obvious pause, he extends and extends and extends (not complaining you understand)....

I've been buying what I hope are reference recordings for many years, so I was interested to know what Dave considers them to be. So far I've correctly guessed 5.5 out of the nine he's done so far. (I wasn't expecting both Barbirolli and Szell for the Sibelius 2) Anyway i'm curious to know what's coming next. Thanks Dave.

Will you please do one for the Rach 3 piano concerto?

Hello! Watched your Mendelssohn Scottish video recently, and I'm amazed by your depth of knowledge! I'm wondering if you've ever heard the Toscanini version of the Scottish before (the live recording that's available on KZfaq)? He ignores the dynamics at the start of the coda and jumps in with a straight forte, but admittedly the whole performance is so amazingly thrilling! It'd be nice to know your thoughts on that performance :)

On seeing Previn’s Rachmaninoff as your reference recording my shoulders dropped two feet in disappointment. That is, until your analyses of the British critical establishment’s and the EMI promotional apparatus’s hyperventilating investment in Previn’s recording. When buying it way back then at the recommendation of the Penguin Record Guide (a folly of youth - it might have even had a rosette), I found the performance slack and under energized with even a bit of sloppy ensemble. Memories of a record from 50 years ago can certainly be faulty, but I’ve never listened to it since. In total agreement with you on this one!

I believe that prior to the EMI release Previn had a Rachmaninoff 2nd with the LSO released on RCA. I'm thinking that one was abridged too. So the elevation of the later EMI release was Previn's "apology" for doing the cut version, and the earlier RCA was on an American label and maybe wasn't largely available or just not considered British enough by the UK critics. Haven't heard the old RCA so don't know its merits but I suspect the full-length release being on EMI gave the UK critics "permission" to rave.

What would be considered a reference recording of the well tempered clavier?

I did not know about the Ormandy story. My bad. I am always disappointed by the uncut version. The structural connections don’t feel right to me in the complete version.

Guess you don't like the Pletnev on DG 1994?

I’m amazed that Previn’s far too slow performance is considered a reference. Ormandy’s would be the best but surely these appalling cuts should rule it out. (sanctioned or not)