Here are some shortcuts to various spots in the video if you want to skip the intro and definitions: Definitions - 2:35 Intro to the scales - 4:41 Velocity of a single Kernel of powder - 7:27 Start of testing is at 10:11

A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two never does....

I am in this weighing industry for 35 years. The load cell or sensor in balances can range anywhere from US$1 to $30. AND uses one of the best hybrid magnetic force technology, they are expensive but also most accurate. The cheap load cells are not linear and do not repeat, manufacturers also use Analog to Digital processors that do not high internal resolutions, so to make the balances inexpensive, a lot of software are use to mask the inaccuracies, like zero tracking, which is the scale internally is not zeroed but the software will just display zero and we assume it is zero. A good way to test is to put a container, tare it, and put 1 grain or 1 division of weight on the scale, for cheap scales, it will just capture it as zero or as previous weight and one can continuously add 1d a time and the software just zeroed that out until there is a big change in weight. There are no standards in manufacturing but most companies use 1.5d weight increment must show 1d weight increase. I have done a few videos showing comparisons in filling speed, dosing application and other accuracy tests. And will be happy to share with you.

Awesome video, at least I'm not the only one that obsesses over a perfect powder charge . Keep up the hard work.

I started reloading in December 18 and I started with a cheaper scale(I think a Lyman digital)I had problems with sd and es something terrible. My wife said I could buy the fx120i(I found a used one for a good price with a dandy trickler) and I haven’t looked back!!! I love the accuracy to the nearest kernel of powder using varget sized powder! My es and sd have gone down and consistency has gone up enough that I was able to make my first hits at 1083yrds with my Valkyrie remage bolt gun! Like my wife said “it’s better to have an accurate scale that I don’t have to worry about you blowing yourself up”, I said good enough I’ll buy the fx120i!!

Thats a whole education on scales and systems I had no clue it made such a difference. Thanks BAR, I shall be looking into this more!

These videos are awesome. Just what I needed as I am just getting back into reloading. Thank you

Ahhhhh. OCD Therapy complete. thanks for another great video.

i think the most important thing in this video is that he explains his definition of the word he is using thanks man.

appreciate the video, was in Cabelas today and just could not decide, went with another small scale, after watching this I think I made the right choice, would have saved me some time if I had watched it first.

Great info! Thank you for the attention to detail!

after 20 years of reloading match ammo and using everything available for accurate powder dispensing, I went back to a good balance beam scale and trickler. accuracy is more important than speed when building long range match ammo. Hunting loads and banging ammo for Ar's not so much. A good technique and a quality powder measure will dispense accurate loads well withing most needs. For me the balance beam and trickler works the best. It is not slow enough to make a difference. Good video and great comparison between what is available. Don't get wrapped up in the electronics. I did not find it reliable enough for my needs.

I bit the bullet a while ago and purchases a Sartorius Entris 64 which measures to .002 grains. I used to use the RCBS ChargeMaster Lite to throw the charge close enough and then trickle to the exact weight. I've since them moved to the Franklin Intellidroper. It's wicked fast dumping the powder and I will say the Franklin drops a charge usually within .05 grains. I've seen it drop within one kernel but it's not repeatable. If you are going to load 50-75 rounds a sitting, The Franklin will server you well. That coupled with your FX120 and you are ready to rock. You may want to consider this.

You came across as an intelligent, caring, reasonable, and understanding individual so I gave you a like which is rare. And I ended up getting the 777th like which is my favorite number, damn what are the chances

A very underrated topic. For my method, I get really particular and measure every charge by hand. Tedious, but for my use it’s worth it.

There are like hundreds of scale videos. All this extra time, effort and cost- I just use my bathroom scale. Yeah, I occasionally blow up a barrel, but I get great distance.

Very well done video! Thanks.

Great info!

Load by volume ,powder weight can change with humidity. Balance scales are more accurate. You can get very accurate loads with IMR 4831 in 3006 by scooping out of a container with the casing. Also works for varget and 223. Look in your manual for compressed loads. Lee powder scoops work great and are fast. People love to spend money 💰 on fancy crap.

Great video. I need to start saving ...I have the Hornady auto charger or whatever it's called it drifts , sd's all over the place.... but I'm getting great groups ....I'm certain that will change farther out I go !! I still need to get one of those chamber cooling fans if you're wondering I have the Caldwell g2 chronograph

I've noticed through the years I have reloaded that the tenth of a grain it usually equates to 3 cereals or 4 depending on the powder. I'm talking about stick powder like Retumbo, 4831, 4350 or as such. My RCBS scale measure about 0.1 off from a balance beam so I check a lot of charges on the balance beam but my charge master is about 20 years old now. Really like the comparison.

Great review

Just bought the hornaday g2 1500 as I realised I needed something basic digit scale as I just couldn't use the sliding scale that came in my lee press kit, and was cheap($105 with the scale and trickeler) well at least in comparison as most reloading scale are very expensive. My first 50 loads are with just the 2.5cc scoop that came with my dies, but need to get something the measures in Grs so I know a little more accurately what amount I'm loading.

I found RCBS Lite chargemaster to be a much accurate than 1500. At first when I purchased 1500 I did every mod and calibration I could try and still it wasn't where I wanted to be so I returned it. When Lite came out I purchased it and was so much better! Most important it would not overthrow straight out of the box without any mods and it stayed within 0.1gr range as I double check every charge on GemPro 250.

Its really about making our loads better. After all, thats what we all want is better loads. I will gladly spend more money for my load to be exact, powerful, and precise!

I wondered about the new frankford arsenal auto scale. Almost ordered other day. $199 ? Didn't know if it was good? Assume every stinking scale is made in china or other place than America ? Great job thanks for the info brother. Happy Fathers day tommorow.

I use an optimized powder thrower for pistol reloads and I randomly check the accuracy in a $60 Frankfort Armory Platinum scale, I reloaded since 1989 thousands of rounds and this setup works perfectly fine, I was in revolver competition and I spent a lot of time learning, reading and with others talking about this subject and nobody, absolutely no one was concern about one kernel of powder more or less even in competition precision loads, true is we have a diversity of digital precision scales in this days but you dont really need to a extreme fanatic or break the bank, just fairly accurate and consistent. Jerry Miculek still using conventional reload systems, if is good for him is good for all of us.

Have you done a load test using the fx120i vs the chargemaster to see if there are measurable differences? As in measurable at the range

A smaller powder charge is proportionally more sensitive. That’s why it’s super hard to get low SDs in small cases like .223 and smaller.

I immediately gave you a "Like" after the unicorn statement.

A fancy balance would be nice and they are better, but you can make good ammo with a cheap scale. My $20 WAOAW scale was good enough to get first round hits at 1K with 5.56 at my last match. The real improvement would have been something to way it out automatically since trickling 500 loads can get tedious.

Lol!! Brilliant!! I'm only 2 mins into the video!! Lol!! 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿🙏🏿💜

I just wish the Chargemaster Lite had adjustable feet for leveling. Thx for going over all of this in depth.

Don't forget - electronic scales and balances are temperature sensitive. As you get to the higher end, the performance is counting on the system being at a stable and narrow temp range. Usually between 65-70F or so - manufacturer defined. Loading in a cold/hot garage may not get you the expected accuracy on your $500 - $1500 balance

Thank you for making this video. I have been thinking about the higher end scale, but was wondering if I need to spend an arm and a leg.

I use a scale with a kindle focused on the needle, it will give within two grains of powder, ( not weight) the correct measurement. Problem is,,, its way slow, but I don't care.and as far as accuracy can't be beat. Chemistry degree way back when we used scales in controlled rooms. Sometimes grains will form a bunch as they adhere to each other.

Would be interesting to see a beam scale compared to these.

I have a Gen1 GS-1500 and its driving me absolutely crazy. it drifts out to +/- 0.4gn over the course of 30 rounds. Hoping I can find a digital scale that will serve me better, otherwise I'm seriously considering going back to a mechanical scale.

This may sound like a bit much to do, but, beings many of these auto dropper/tricklers run on a small plug-in type transformer, I opened my unit up, located a ground trace on the main PC board, and then ran that to the ground lug on the wall outlet...Yes, it kinda sucks to have that wire like that, it does have a quick disconnect an inch or three from the machine itself but, I just tie-wrap it to the transformer power supply's wire.. Beings, my unit never moves, If I do need to move the scale, I can unplug the power cord and the ground wire at the machine, and just push the cord out of the way. I to leave it plugged into the outlet though. The grounding wire is attached to the outlet cover plate center screw. That center screw is also connected to the buildings grounding rod/neutral system. The drift I was getting in my auto dropper/scale was 100% resolved, after doing that.... With out getting into a whole bunches of electrical engineering lingo, it basically, assisted in dumping any of the random RF and static noise to ground, that the external transformer power supply doesn't do. The load-cell system, is exceptionally sensitive to RF, and the circuitry that deals with the load cell's capacitance strain gauge, does its best to deal with outside interference's like RF static, and noise, all it can really do it round up or down as a basic algorithmic gate for counting an average over time. I took things a step further and if you don't know what you are doing, I do not recommend that you do this, let alone, it will also, void the factory warranty "fact".... I took the whole unit apart, carefully, and I purchased from Amazon, a roll of adhesive backs foil sheets, 12 inches by 56 inches is what I think I got, for like $13 bucks. You can also get this this sticky backed foil rolls in a tape format, approx 1 inch wide to 5 inches wide, by 10 to 75 yards long, just like a roll of masking tape, except, it is a thin metal foil.. Anyway, I wiped the inside surfaces with Iso-alcohol, that may have been left behind from the injection molding process of the parts, and or assemble process and dust and powder residue from loading. Is that step required, NO, not really, but, why not, I have it opened already, might as well. I then proceeded to make paper templates of the various shaped that contoured inside void surfaces.. marked with a sharpie marker, each template and then its respective matching mark to the location on the inside location. Once they were all cut out, I test fit the cut out foil pieces, for proper fitment, with out removing the sticky side's backer.. I would proceed to the next stage, of connecting each one of the foils by a small wire, by means of soldering said jumper connecting wire. Paying mind to the need of the wire to clear interior structured plastic gussets, Test fitting each additional foil to the previous one, carefully test fitting again, and again, etc.... Once all were connected via the jumper wire, I lastly soldered on one (1) wire that has a quick disconnector in line, from the collection foils to the the main board, which happens to be the same location of the spot that the grounding wire that run to the outside of the machine to run to the wall outlet. Basically, I installed a shielding cage that catches a very high percentage of the RF noise energy that floats around from the room lighting, the TV & DVD player, laptop, on the work bench 5 foot away from where the digital scale resides on the loading work bench. It is a poor man's Faraday's gage, on the inside of the machine, so it visually is not seen. The drifting issue some auto dropper/tricklers have, and not all models do, and I have seen some of the same exact brand & model, where one will wonder, and the other unit, is spot on with no wondering or drift on the same work bench, so.. Who knows what that is all about? just is what it is.

@ 6:10 - I would say it's more of a middle-ground between the GemPro 250 and the GemPro 50... I own a SMART WEIGH GEM 50, which isn't great but measures 0.02 grains and works adequately for my purposes.

Single kernel resolution is completely wasted unless you’re shooting in space. Consider that a gust of wind at the muzzle can cause your bullet impact to change elevation much more measurably than a single kernel of powder can. Even if you made utterly perfectly uniform ammunition, your gun’s tolerances aren’t perfectly uniform, so essentially, you’re wasting perfection anyway. Just save your money and spend it on the best components you can get.

I own a Chargemaster and honestly never use it. I use my Harrell's premium powder thrower and a triple beam agate lab scale. And I see no difference and vertical dispersion at up to 400 yd with my 6.5 Creedmoor. Much like yourself, I'm not saying my way it is THE way. But I applaud your comparison video and stance about the shooter's opinions on weighing charges. I know plenty of guys and gals that can outshoot me at the bench and almost all of them work up their charge weights differently so I'd look pretty silly telling any of them that their methods need to change.

People don’t realize how sensitive some scales can be. Then they end up calling a product garbage because they left their ceiling fan on while running it 😂

Just got my 120i a few days ago to go with my auto trickler v3 - I gotta say, I'm surprised (not) how much the RCBS 1500 is off. The 1500 is now for AR loading duty only.

Fx120 is also not great at repeatability as we can see in the video, but that is being ignored. Linearity is also important , but only interesting if you use it for very different loads. If you only need to load 42.4 grains , just check your scale with a reference of around that weight and be happy when the scale is able to reproduce that reading within the tolerance that you’re happy with. Also, if you put calibration weights on a scale, try to place them in the middle , since many scales are not linear from center to edge

Have you tried running a ballistics calculator to see what difference a 10fps ES makes on downrange drop at 1000 yards?

If I hit the like button and not the bell icon, will I still find out how you and the others make your group smaller?

Pick yourself up the Area419 version of the autotrickler system you wont regret it.

The Old Adage of ( Trust But Verily ) holds true ..

A friend and I did a test of a range of powder scales a few years ago. My gold standard is my ancient Lyman balance with gem stone bearings. We then compared the measures of two Lee balances, one digital brand name powder scale, and at least one eBay Chinese no name digital scales. We used calibrated lab weights as well as common items. The deviation amongst all was so minute it was ridiculous to even assign a percentage accuracy figure. YMMV, FWIW, JMHO, etc.

Its all about great loads

Hey mopar madman, good video. A good scale is worth its value in an 80% hit day or a 50% hit day. Premium components will pay for itself on hit percentages. At least my opinion. Another thing i thought of, just to throw a twist, can humidity percentage of your powder throw everything off? I dont believe anyone to be testing that. If there was a way for example to maintain exactly 50% humidity of your powder at all times i think the theory would be even better consistancy in extreme spread assuming that all other factors are controlled. It would be pretty tough to check though i would think. Opinion? Dan

Hey mate. Any feedback on Ohaus scales?😊

I purchased a RCBS Chargemaster lite and used it for 18 months, it then stopped working. The touch pad will not always respond, sometimes it will not calibrate, it will not stabilize at the 100gm step. It will also not turn off, I have to unplug it. It was used once a week or so, calibrated every time. RCBS says well it is over a year old, so sorry not covered under warranty. Here is a repair shop and they can maybe help. I have not called the third party repair shop number they gave me yet. Don't know what the cost will be to repair it. Safe to say I would not recommend an RCBS scale. Update the repair shop gets a flat rate of $155 to repair this unit, plus I need to pay for shipping it to them and shipping it back.. What would you do? I would not buy this unit.

If there is one piece of reloading equipment that I have underutilized it's my FA digital scale. It just doesn't meet expectations. +/- 0.1 grains shows the fallacy of the 0.01 display. My experience with inexpensive electronic scales is that they are poorly suited for measuring small changes as with trickling. They seem to be OK at weighing bullets or anything where the entire weight is deposited at once. I will trust my 5-0-5s over ANY digital scale including the FX120i if there is a difference in their readings. OTOH, my Charge Master and both 5-0-5s have always agreed exactly.

Been wanting to get an AD fx120 but don’t have the money for it so I bought a Grizzly Bald eagle

Thanks for the great comparison. But I must ask. Any particular reason you did not include the hornady auto charge scale on this lineup? Seems like a glaring omission. I purchased one used as part of a bundle from a guy who was getting out of reloading. I would really have liked seeing it included.

If you can get a peregrine bullet scale from South Africa it does 0.01 increment most accurate scale I've used.

To speed things up I use two trays the same weight :)

i would like to remind everyone that reloading scale accuracy has no relevance on reloading only consistently is the only factor that should be considered all you want is the same load every time exactly if you scale read’s hi or low it doesn’t matter as long as it read hi or low consistently.

Can you please use your A and D to check how good/bad the repeatability of an Ohuas beam scale is?

I wonder if anyone makes a chrono accurate enough to know one way or another. I doubt it.

I just cut a piece of aluminum to about 6 gns. 5.82gns. Every session I check that it reads the same on my cheap Homgeek.

Thanks for the help bud! Btw, i in fact won't be using these scales to weight out steroid powders 😇👌

Weighing rooms are leveled, temp controlled, no air currents, no electrical currents, air mixture controlled, no static electricity, light controlled, and instruments detecting earth and magnetic fields variations. All stuff beyond even exact reloaders..

Are these good for drugs too? Or are these just bullet-powder specific? Jokes aside, excellent video, very detailed oriented.

You didnt rub me wrong.I bought the V4 Auto Trickle and FX 120i.. I couldnt justify the $4,000. Prometheus.. I dont shoot good enough for that..Yet.

+/- 0.1 grain is a 0.2 grain accuracy, not a 0.1 grain accuracy.

Are all those pans the same weight?

FX120i

were do you get the 120i for $450?????

Where did you find it for 450. Thanks

Right now i have 2 relative cheap digital scales and they don't keep zero for crap....taking the dish off and on a few times will start to skew the tared zero and I have to power off and back on to get it back to zero...pain in the ass. I think i may just go with the balance beam just so i can feel better about the digital readout being right or not....or maybe I should just spend a bit more on a digital.....hmmmm

I WAS TOLD BY A SALES PERSON AT A RELOADING STORE THAT RCBS IS THE LEAST PROBLEMATIC ONE OF ALL THE ELECTRONIC DISPENSERS.

I've used a few cheaper digital scales and they just never give me any confidence. A balance beam is slow and finicky. But I trust it more than the cheap digitalis Especially when trying to save funds for components

You could have a whole bench of nice reloading tools for the price of that A&D scale alone.

Coming from the computer IT side of things, I really do not understand how or why people read an "oh" and not a "zero". For example "twenty oh one" instead of "twenty zero one". I know it "really makes no difference, however, it really rings a like a 'wrong note in a chord' for me...

Gate keeping is a big problem of the reloading community. Im just starting out with a .308 hand loader (got to start somewhere and learn the basics) and a mechanical powder scale... Yet i was asking for guidance on a shooting discord server and i was told in infinite ways how what I'm doing is wrong and to just buy thousands of dollars of equipment rather than actually learning to walk before i can run.

A big improvement for all scales would be a weight platter with a recess exactly the size of the bottom of the trays, that way, the trays are consistently placed on the platter. I think inconsistent tray placement is the deviation culprit. Edit: Another option is to place a small screw into the exact center of the tray, and drill a matching hole into the exact center of the weight platter; that way (pun not intended,) there is absolute placement consistency.

To me if you only shoot 40 or 50 rounds a month there is no justification to purchase an expensive scale. It boils down to how much you shoot and how much you can afford.

Why did you bother even adding the Hornady GS-1500 scale to the table if you weren't even going to test it.

JUST.SLOW.DOWN

A quality powder measure is all that you really need. Yes, you will need a scale to verify weights, but measuring each charge is so unnecessary, unless you are trying to win some kind of long range competition. A quality powder measure is accurate and so much easier and faster.

Ok I applaud you attempt at measurmenrBut you should show the smallest unit you are trying to measre. A single grain of whatever shape.because you can't get smaller

I know your'e trying to not make the old timers angry, but digital scales for speed and micro accuracy.

Just depends on the money spent. I'm a poor guy.

Longest intro ever.

800.00 dollars it’s not worth it 👎🤢🤮 who cares if it’s off one or two gn off

Too much talking...

You talk too much!

Toll much talking.

The FX120i is seriously over priced and you do a disservice to us all by promoting it. If one just wants a hyper accurate balance the FX120i is double what one needs to pay. As an example, the Ohaus Scout SPX123 is just as good, just as accurate, just as impervious to where the weight is placed on the scale and cost half the price. Fact of the matter is Adam MacDonald made an extremely poor choice getting into bed with A&D. He charges $270 for the Autotrickler, but one has to pay $800 for the scale? That simply doesn't make good business sense. All of the design acumen in the world doesn't mean one can ignore the business-end of the equation. The Ohaus Scout is less than $400. It doesn't have the ability to mount a throw on top of it, but design and build a "house" that the throw can sit on top of for the people that need the auto throw functionality.

Yeah the problem is not all of us have the big bucks to spend on some of these scales. My $90.00 RCBS scales work just fine thanks.