literally the talent here is taking a simple topic and filling it in 20 minutes...

Hertz is out of their mind buying black Tesla's with the large wheel option. That's $3000 more for those 2 things for no reason but worse is how the wheels and paint will be destroyed in no time. Only makes sense to buy "free" white color with base wheels for a rental.

Would love to see some degredation tests on LFP cars in the future, would certainly be interesting to compare.

I feel like I’m taking an online EV class with every video I watch of yours and I think your a great teacher.

My 2018 Model 3 LR with 176,000 miles says it's still at 85% battery health.

its great to see test like these. it helps those doubts and myths of owning Telsa cars. That Model Y is doing great under the use of unknowledge drivers that don't have the knowledge you have. Great Job once again

I’ve rented before from hertz, on the introductory email for first time ev renters it states you can bring the car back atleast at 20% of charge so no need to fully charge before returning the rental. Hope this helps

76 kWh comes out to exactly 92.6% of 82 kWh. So maybe 93% health is pretty close!

One of the best things about this video is the time of day you chose to shoot it. Look at that golden hour light and those clouds! Well done!

Thanks so much for this video. I’m about to receive my first Tesla (Model Y LR) and while I understood about half of what you explained in this video it shows I just have a lot to learn about batteries.

Awesome video. Super informative and great presentation. Thank you! Subbed!

Max 3hrs Parking: We'll just leave it here overnight and see what it shows tomorrow! :)

Never knew how to do this mode… cool. I’m doing this tonight!

Super valuable Kyle! I have learned a lot in this one. Thanks for sharing the service mode info. What track did you go to? IMI, High plains?

My wife’s 22 MYP lost 7% of its battery capacity in the 1st year and 10k miles. Car never charged beyond 80% and never went below 20% soc a couple of times at most. Supercharged maybe 5 times, rest at home. Just picked up a new 23 M3P. Will see how it does with degradation.

You rented it from Hertz? There's a good chance Hertz will put out an arrest warrant for you! 🤣

Kyle - can you share (could be a topic for a video) a protocol we could all use (Tesla owners or not) and report back to you (could be a Google Sheet or Google Form for instance) with data for you to collect and issue report on brand/model/year/built/etc. I'm ready to help set it up if you're interested, I'm sure many are or will be. Let us know! Great vid as always. Keep burning miles and kWH!

…is there an 4 minute Executive Summary of this???

I checked our Ioniq 5 AWD at 14k miles and it reported 100% health, seems optimistic to have 0% loss after 1 year but maybe it has a shrinking buffer to make the degradation seem less. But last time I gave it a 100% charge it said 271 miles of range, it was only rated 256 miles new, so maybe it's not too far off.

Cool! I am renting a Model 3 SR in a couple weeks for a 4 hour trip to Cleveland for the week and back. My pre-trip planner shows a few superchargers right at the half-way point and my hotel has a Tesla destination charger. I've been thinking about making a video.

I've been watching prices on used Model Y Long Range, so thanks for this video! Did Colton get a chance to see whether or not the paint could be rescued? In my experience renting a couple of Model 3s from Hertz, the only things they do lock are the glove box and playback of Sentry Mode video (but you can still switch it on/off). Our location had no return-charge requirement. The one thing I wish that I'd been better versed on when returning the car was how to erase location history from navigation.

Good to hear. I have a tesla model 3 LR 2021. I have only super charged like 3 times since I owned it. Went on a trip to Texas from Oklahoma. everything was great. I bet my degradation is super low.

That looks exactly like the Model Y I rented from Hertz (Denver airport) back in March during my Spring Break trip to Breckenridge. Overall, very good experience renting from them - highly recommend it. Having to return it at 70-80% was annoying since I had to guestimate how much charge would be required to make it to the drop off location since the nearest supercharger was about 10 miles away (they are now building two more that are much closer) - if were attempting to make a flight, it would be very annoying. I simply returned it the night before to avoid that since I had a super early flight (5am departure) in the morning. Considering that most rental companies hold on to their cars for 2-3 years and then sell them off, I'm wondering how the Model Ys and other EVs will hold up over that time. While they are usually well cared for, they are driven hard. I could see EV rentals being DCFC'd the vast majority of the time which could impact their resell value.

Hertz's website says to return at "at least 10%". The counter says 70% when you pick up the car or you'll be charged $35. I had to stop at 4AM and put some juice in my rental on return to the airport. Worked fine -- of course, because it's Tesla -- but was inconvenient as I would otherwise have gotten to the airport at 67%. :/ They never passed through the Supercharger money I spent as a charge from Hertz, although they did pass through tolls that I hit when following the nav.

I saw Hertz PHX had Polestar 2, Kia Niro EV, and both the 3 and Y. I'd give them a shot, but the premium sedan was only 35/day for the week I'm there and we plan to put on some miles in a short time frame, so gas it is.

Roughly 4% -7% battery degradation in first 10 months and 12k miles. Saved you 20 mins

I manually calculated 15% degradation on my ‘21 Y LR at a little over 2 years and 53k miles. Always charge to 80% in warm weather and 90% only on the coldest days in the winter - 100% rarely for long trips. I’ve been super happy with these numbers.

It will be interesting to see 4680 battery health over time. Jack Rickard had said the dry electrode process should give high nickel batteries LFP-like battery degradation. I haven't seen any 4680 model Y degradation reports on youtube yet.

That's pretty on par with what my model 3 degradation was. I had 15 -16% by my second year. I don't remember exactly what it was after one year I'm thinking 9 or 10% but I had almost zero DC charging I bet the rental car gets DC charged mostly.

I wish the other manufacturers had something anywhere close to the Tesla service mode. So much cool stuff in there I wish I had access to on my Ioniq 5.

I had a modle 3 standard as a rental on a week long stay in dallas. I full charged for the trip back to the airport (I was on the other side of town) so I could be sure to get it there above 70%. When I started out it it said I would arrive at 83% but In the first 10% went in about 20miles, which caused the destination estimate to dramtically lower to just above 70. After that, it leveled out to a more normal consumption rate and I ended up pulling in at 77% It was one of the earlier Hertz cars and I chalked it up to abuse, but now I wish I had found the time to figure out more info about it.

That gap between the headliner and b-pillar. Urgghhh

What is the ideal way to test a battery for health in terms of lowest time to cycle the health test? For a prospective used car purchase? The notification says >=6kW AC , can a Wall Connector ~11.5kW be used to reduce cycle time of the test? Why was the charger used in the video at the ~6kW mark for this test? Is it better to test at a slower rate for some reason?

Kyle, I use the Tessie app and the battery health tab. Do you have an opinion on its accuracy? I have a 2022 Model Y LR that is 8 months old with 8k easy miles. It shows a 0.9 degradation. That seems about right based upon your test of the rental car.

Hertz should have a charge level request entry field in their reservation system.. Should let you know the car will be provided at 80% SOC unless you request it being higher - by checking a box or something. And the rental contract should let you return the car as low as 20% SOC without a fee - so they don’t have a bricked car if you return it on a cold late night and they aren’t able to put it on a charger til the next morning. Or something like that.

Can you do this on a model s ? I'm thinking of buying a 3 year old one great video by the way

Hey I rented from hertz in Atlanta and they said bring it back on 30% . But since they didn’t fully charger it before the rent , they said I could bring it back at 20%

How long did the test end up taking given you started at only 5%?

I just rented a model Y from Hertz two days ago at LAX, and it was $70/day.

To regain lost/unbalanced capacity, change charge rutine. I used to charge to 90% everyday and used only 10-30% of the battery and then i would charge up again. From the read out on scan my Tesla, nominal full pack was down to 72.2kw. New, gross capacity is 82.2kw, with buffer nominal should be around 79kw and usable 76kw Now i charge to 50%, and each day nominal pack value gains 2-400w. I'm up to 76.5kw and gaining. 2021 TM3P 55k km. From what I experienced this is the best method for balancing hv pack.

Hey Kyle when is the next road trip will be

Would love to see someone test the health impact on a Tesla that's been exclusively Supercharged vs one that's been home charged.

My 2019 Kia E-Niro with 35000 miles still has 100% battery life, and not from the car but a OBD2 scanner. I have only fast charged once, and almost never charge to 100%, usually 80-90%.

Does this one have the comfort suspension?

Maybe Tesla is calculating degradation based on the full pack when new (rated) capacity of 82.1 kWh, which would put it at a little over 7%, like the car said? It can get confusing discussing battery capacities because there are a lot of different values people throw around, including: full pack when new (rated) = 82.1 kWh nominal full pack when new (actual) = ~79-80 kWh (varies, and can actually rise a little after delivery) usable capacity when new (rated) = 82.1 kWh - 4.5% buffer = 78.4 kWh usable capacity when new (actual) = ~79-80 kWh - 4.5% buffer = ~75-77 kWh It's also important to note that the "usable" capacities are just for calculating the SOC shown by the car, but you can actually continue to drive below 0% and use the buffer / "unusable" portion of the battery. Also, to make matters more confusing, there's a couple different batteries depending on region.

Using Scan My Tesla App and the vehicle displays my model 3 LR in the HV screen indicates a battery level of 73.2% and on the battery screen indicates 76.2% so I'm wondering if the vehicle firmware overall degradation also includes that 3kwh of battery capacity you cannot access. So 5% may well be the actual degradation you measured with the driving test.

Is it locked in chill mode? I think the tyres of the rent cars will go quick to bold

Battery health is only about degradation not internal resistance. The difference may be that you drove it until it literally stopped which is below 0% i.e. you ate into that bottom buffer. Given that might be 2 or 3% of the total pack size you then have the two figures nearly matching up.

Well I wonder if maybe the fact Hertz was charging to 100% maybe that has contributed to extra degradation. My model Y at 15 months and the Tesla EPA range estimate from new

40-50% is the optimal range? I’ve been doing 50-60% on my Lightning and charging @ 240v 6 amps thinking I’m doing the best for the battery 😵‍💫

Kile just a heads up in the flow screen it say speed limit lock?

Can this be done at a Tesla Super Charger or will I get fined?

76kW is roughly 93% of the full 82kW battery. My guess is that going past 0% eats into that 2.5kW buffer.

I recently put in a Teslogic dash board. Do you have any thoughts on its accuracy for battery degradation? It is advertised as a diagnostic tool and gives interesting information.

I feel hertz must keep their teslas better maintained than personal owners who do nothing lol

Would be cool with a comparison to Tessie app health status.

3 hr limit, Kyle ;).

I have a 23 MYP. 180 days and 37,117 miles. The battery test states that I have lost 7%. 100% charge. It says that I get 283 miles. Since I’ve had the car, I wanna say I probably charge my car up to 100% about 30 times. I am a good worker and I do roughly about 200 miles a day. I don’t know what to think if I’m doing good with battery degradation but unfortunately I am very hard on the battery. I want to keep it past 120,000 miles but I will probably get rid of it as soon as it hits 115,000 and just get another car. I go through cars like water. on a full charge the best I’ve ever gotten is 221 miles driving 80 miles an hour. I also changed the ratio for the tires. I run a 275/35/21 and 295/35/21.

Hi guys, i need your advice about supercharging my tesla. I owned Tesla Model Y 2021 Long range, so i wanted to know is it bad to charge my car with supercharger every time, cause i feel like im doing smth bad, that i charge my Tesla with supercharger every time. Thanks

My 2013 Nissan Leaf displays the state of health 2 ways - first is the number of bars out of 12 on the dashboard. Or, I can connect an Obd2 and use Leaf Spy APP to get a number. Can I do similar with Tesla?

Our Model S85 had 7% degredation when we bought it at 71k miles and 7 years old.

You should offer EV charging training materials and tutorial to Hertz that will inform their charge policies. 💡😮 19:14

Can you share info on why you limit SOC to 50%?

Does anybody compared the Tesla Service mode degradation test with the Tessie app SoH score? Of yes, how did they compare?

My SR+ 2019 had 5% degradation after 1.5 year, now at a age of 4 year and 100.00km it levels out at 7.5% and 47.2kWh capacity👍

Why do you think home charging is better for the battery?

Are you going to do the 10% test on the Taycan and Lucid? More Anna, Ms. Franco, and your Dad please.

I own a 2016 Model X, how can I do the same test?

I think I heard Alissa?!

I am thinking about buying one from Hertz - used - but I do not think that the vehicle is worth $30,000+ with an untested battery. I could rent the vehicle and then test the battery - but I am curious for your results and thoughts about buying a rental EV. I think that a lot of renters just plain out abuse these cars - constant launching and full time supercharging until it is taken out of service. And also my thoughts about buying a used one vs a rental unit. There is no way to tell if the car was used as a Turo rental because that is still a personally owned vehicle.

In the clickbait picture he is showing how long his last captured fish was, wright?

Folks should keep in mind some Supercharging stations are 72 kw while others are 250 kw. I would imagine using the faster chargers has more of a health impact.

10% degradation after 100K miles? There's nothing to bitch about with those stats. 👽👍 Also, here in Virginia you can rent a model 3 for under $60 a day.

Lol you should probably stop using "Red Hot" as the reference for the battery temps. 64C is definitely hot for battery temps but to say "red hot" might be a little scary for some. Most people reference metal when they think "red hot" which generally* starts to show red around 500C. Specially in the US when most don't use C they have no reference to go from. So to assume its so hot that it is red might be mind boggling to some. I could also just be a picky viewer LOL, if thats the case sorry about that. Eitherway, still a great video as usual. cheers.

I bought a 22 M3sr and these video's keep scaring me. My AmperaE (Bolt) did so well after 3 years and now I see al these teslas losing 10%+ like its nothing. I get my M3 next year, first thing I do is testing the kwh's that it can deliver. I'm nervous. Some moments I wonder why I even bought it.

You mentioned in the 10% video challenge that it is not possible to pair a rental Tesla on the app , how can we deal with the superchargers payment’s ? I really wanna know cause I'm planning to visit the US and rent a Tesla 😆

Its 82kwh gross capacity and 77 net basically. Nobody did drain More than that out of it even when its new

Can you subscribe to Autopilot in this rental? Great video. Thanks.

Will entering Service Mode void the warranty?

Kyle do you know anyone who rents 1 way rentals? I need to drive EV from Florida to LA just can’t one to rent!

Hertz is going to be generating so much money from used EV sales starting next year is my guess. Usually, these rental car companies use a car for a couple of years then sell them off. It is a nice business model because they make money renting the vehicle and then sell it off which many buyers see something just two years old or less, they are attracted to it. My only fear is what Kyle hit on, the hard use and straight up abuse. Hearing the Hertz staff is keeping vehicles at 100% state of charge does make you wonder what kind of training they are getting. It is going to be interesting to see if we start hearing horror stories from people who bought a rental EV from places like Hertz. Unless they are selling their used EVs at below market prices, I cannot see myself grabbing one from there.

On the range test, did you drive past 0%? That may explain the difference. Tesla is using 0% as the baseline but you got a bit better perceived health by driving past 0%. This would also assume the 79.5kWh you got from viewers is not from a "drive until dead" range test.

Several comments: 1) The problem is not that people at Hertz (or wherever) don't know all the ins and outs of EV charging, etc., it's that there's way too much to have to know. Not sure why the EV fans don't get this, but all us normies are used to vehicles where we don't have to know 100 things about putting the nozzle in and squeezing the trigger until it shuts off and all the ways that changes from car to car, or one model year to the next model year, or one size tank in that model to the next, or gas pump to gas pump, or busy station to lonely station, or a brand new pump to last year's model, or as the weather changes, or how far it was we had to drive to the station, or whether we told the car we were going to get gas or not, or according to which card we used at the pump, or which app, or …. The problem is not "our" knowledge. The problem is "your" system. 2) The reason Hertz, or any other rental car company, wants the car back at 70% is that the car ONLY MAKES MONEY for them when it's out on a rental. It just bleeds their money when it's sitting on their lot. If you think that every EV rental should be charged at the advertised duration rate PLUS 4 hours overage, which typically adds a day rental charge to the contract, then yeah, let them spend that four hours charging the vehicle back up. All their ICE cars can be turned around in fifteen minutes or so. (And that allows them time to do a better job cleaning them than they usually do.) If you say they should charge them from, say, near 0% back to, what, 80%?, then you have to understand their existing economic model isn't consistent with that and let them change that model.

About the same degradation as my wife's almost 3yo Leaf Plus with 28,000 miles. But the Leaf does have a NMC532 million mile battery.

How did you get the 4-5% depredation from 93% health?

what? you got hertz insurance? i rented a tesla from avis. they said that no insurance company will insure their or any EV. also, if i charge the car at a supercharger, avia charges me PLUS tesla will charge me. so i said forget it. give me a gas car.

The fee for not bringing it back at 70% is $30. That is not unreasonable. Depending on how much ia super charger session might cost and how you value your time you’re better off just returning it at low SOC and paying $30.

Please do this to Gm bolt.I would expect it to be really bad and that Gm would be lying about there numbers.

3hr time limit to park, 14.5 hours to fully charge LOL

I suspect in a few years the BMS systems and buffers will allow new owners to not worry about only charging to 80 or 90% and it'll be fine to charge to 100%. I bet by the 2035 phaseout (depending on region/country) that's so often fearmongered about that all the tips and tricks mentioned in these videos will no longer be relevant.

Hertz locked my rental to 85mph which also locks it in chill mode, very annoying for a road trip.

Why would you not think Tesla knows how to test the battery? It is doing the same thing (run down/charge up as your drive test, but under more controlled conditions. I

Returning full or paying for charge? That is just stupid. Ufodrive does it the right way, all the charging is included in the rental price, and you return it at any soc with no chargers at all. They are starting to have rental locations in US as well!

I'll note that 76/82.0 = 92.68% -> 93%. Maybe not coincidence?

What do I want from an electric car? Well the usual controls, speedo and fuel remaining gauge/range left. That is it. I brought a Renault Zoe which hides a fair bit of the geek stuff. My education is electronic engineering and I know from experience that the average normal motorist is switched off by any numbers, graphs, or talk of battery degradation. Even using the phrase 'battery degradation' will lose an EV sale. If you want people to take up EVs make the experience as simple as possible. Simple down to the level of Fisher Price. Many 'normal' drivers are very highly qualified in their fields but are not interested and do not want to know anything about their wheels which is how it should be. Thanks for the info in this vid but thank goodness I do not have a touch screen so stuffed with graphics. I would fall asleep before even setting off.

Would be cool to track a car from brand new.

@16:37

I think it definitely should be charged to 100% since it is a rental nobody cares about the vehicle they just want to get where they are going same with any other rental they are just there to use for a short term then be sold off

Make sure you set it to 1.25x speed

NCA chemistry, no?