Resolve & Crinacle talk SCIENCE with Dr. Sean Olive of Harman International

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The Headphone Show

The Headphone Show

Жыл бұрын

Resolve and Crinacle got a chance to meet up with Dr. Sean Olive of Harman fame at CanJam NYC 2023, and to ask him some questions regarding the Harman research, audio science, and what future work could look like with the new B&K 5128 headphone measurement system.
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Пікірлер: 97
@ResolveReviews
@ResolveReviews Жыл бұрын
I apologize in advance for the potato audio quality of this interview. We had issues with the lavs.
@MoviesEater
@MoviesEater Жыл бұрын
It's well enough.
@kvbk
@kvbk Жыл бұрын
i didnt even noticed until you said.
@maxcardenas8257
@maxcardenas8257 Жыл бұрын
You are always worrying about audio in Livestream and stuff but it has NEVER bothered me. Little quiet but good
@PartyMusic775
@PartyMusic775 Жыл бұрын
Are you kidding? We didn't even notice because focused on the world class content !
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
It was absolutely fine. I'd be more worried that you have your cap on straight.
@metal571
@metal571 Жыл бұрын
The Olive once again Speaks
@Ari_M47
@Ari_M47 Жыл бұрын
I love that he's always receptive to input and open to testing new ideas. A real scientist
@crin
@crin Жыл бұрын
time for harman IE to have a makeover
@terryss95
@terryss95 Жыл бұрын
I'd personally love to see more of these kind of educational videos on the channel, be it an interview / Q&A like in this case or a deep-dive on a specific topic (like Andrew's videos on EQ).
@OldkidLivegen
@OldkidLivegen Жыл бұрын
"Frequency response only capture one component, which is sound quality. It doesn't include distortion, it doesn't include spatial effects". Yes, you heard it correctly. Frequency response isn't all there is to sound
@barbasour
@barbasour Жыл бұрын
tell that to Sharur
@barbasour
@barbasour Жыл бұрын
@@susokraut3169 oh so IEM doesn't have spatial effect because the lack of diffused sound. got it.
@OldkidLivegen
@OldkidLivegen 5 ай бұрын
@@computerex I don't know about transients. But human hearing is very much influenced by temporal resolution
@Blakeoffire
@Blakeoffire Жыл бұрын
Thanks (to you both) for sharing this educational/interesting interview ! cheers
@DekoniDylan
@DekoniDylan Жыл бұрын
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO! I am so happy you did this. "Guidelines" Thats the best summary of this video! Cheers!
@Leon-lg7zm
@Leon-lg7zm Жыл бұрын
Mr Dr... very nice introduction cronicle
@HobbyTalk
@HobbyTalk Жыл бұрын
I’m a big fan of Olive you’re doing ;)
@derzulya
@derzulya Жыл бұрын
One of the best, if not the best video that I've ever seen in the channel. Thanks a lot! I'd love to see similar content often.
@Dicloneus66
@Dicloneus66 Жыл бұрын
Now can we get Dr. Nina Kraus, author of *Of Sound Mind: How Our Brain Constructs a Meaningful Sonic World* , to talk about the psychological element of sound perception? I'm sure she has a few things to share especially when it comes to what crinacle calls "Japanese quirkiness" when explaining his graphs of IEMs from when he went to Japan.
@MoviesEater
@MoviesEater Жыл бұрын
Love these three, thanks to crinacle and other great reviewers now I know etymotic and Sennheiser and these are my go to headphones. Keep the good work.
@sidesaladaudio
@sidesaladaudio Жыл бұрын
Awesome! Was hoping for something like this! Also interesting to hear they don't even use their own internal 5128 Harman target. Gives more reason to look into potential new targets based on harman research. I assume they'll develop their own from the ground up as well
@gimmickmusic8827
@gimmickmusic8827 Жыл бұрын
As strange as it is, I can understand why they don’t use their own curve for the 5128 (yet). I’m mostly curious if the time and money needed to reeducate/retrain their teams on the 5128 is really that significant to not make Samsung/AKG/Harman want to be on the bleeding edge of innovation.
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
@@gimmickmusic8827 It's mostly for continuity reasons, but I expect this will change as we gather more data and better understanding of what the pros and cons are. We've been comparing headphones measured on different test fixtures and how they compare with measurements on humans. There are some benefits to continue to use a GRAS45CA b/c they match headphone leakage measured on humans better.
@sidesaladaudio
@sidesaladaudio Жыл бұрын
@Sean Olive is that in part due to the 45ca mod pinna being closer to that of a human? Or does there seem to be a case where the design of the HATS is leading to more leakage than found on humans when compared to other test fixtures?
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
@@sidesaladaudio I think the leakage is mostly related to the head and cheek not having the same shape and compliance of flesh which tends to fill in the gaps around the cups. The mannequins (KEMAR and HATS) tend to over-estimate the leakage measured on humans. The flat plates with pinna tend to under-estimate the leakage but the magnitude of the error is less. The pinna are factors but not the largest in this case. They are more factors in the differences above 2-3kHz
@sidesaladaudio
@sidesaladaudio Жыл бұрын
@Sean Olive that's interesting. I guess it would make a difference if neither rig is able to accurately simulate flesh and the effect it has on the headphones' ability to seal on the head compared to a real human. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
@n0xt
@n0xt Жыл бұрын
I really enjoy and appreciate any talk with Sean Olive, but this, with Resolve and Crin asking the right questions is god tier content.
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
Where can I find the video of Sean's presentation.
@stevenswall
@stevenswall 10 ай бұрын
Where is the link to the talk that he gave that is referenced early on in the video?
@LDdrums20
@LDdrums20 8 ай бұрын
That was awesome
@kerryvanderkamp5051
@kerryvanderkamp5051 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting and helpful conversation. I also hope for more of this kind of content. I would love to know more about any current or prior research on the other factors Dr. Olive mentioned that impact sound quality like spatial effects. Is there anything from him or other scientists on this that we could hear about?
@jbaranowski1990
@jbaranowski1990 Жыл бұрын
So which curve should be used to calibrate headphones and monitors for professional music production and mixing/mastering?
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
Professional monitors only need to be calibrated below the room transition frequency (200-300 Hz) to account for room resonances/solid angle gain, and boundary effects. There should be no reason to EQ above that if the speaker is well-designed. Based on an in-room steady-state measurement at the listening location(s), the target curve should not be flat but a smooth downward sloped curve that resembles the predicted-in room curve. It's not too far from the AE headphone target curve as my CanJam presentation/papers demonstrated. The main difference is the bass level.
@eruilluvitar
@eruilluvitar Жыл бұрын
Great talk at CanJam! Thanks for all your hard work!
@dwijenrao1776
@dwijenrao1776 Жыл бұрын
really excellent video, what'll really help if this can be broken into byte size videos because every question has a context, and the rationale/clarifications provided, with the right detailing, could have such an impact on the way we interpret the data or make our preferences, and this can help us appreciate the valuable insight even more.
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
Dr Sean looks nervous. Then again I'd be nervous if I was stuck in a room with Crinacle and Resolve.
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
Yes, a little bit.. It was an impromptu interview without any preparation, after giving a 1-hour talk. As you point out, those two heavy-weight reviewers are pretty intimidating - :)
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
@@tonmeister86 lol I'm sure you'd have no trouble pointing out their deficiencies if you wanted to but then you seem like a nice guy. Great interview by the way. I hope you can make regular appearances on the headphone show. Again great job!
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
@@kyron42 Thank you!
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
@@tonmeister86 No worries.
@Sporting1210
@Sporting1210 Жыл бұрын
odd vibes. At some point i had the impression, he was thinking about how to dismember you and where to burry the parts. well, maybe not THAT drastic, but as a general ballpark - very intense person, that^^
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
23:45 oh well no one's perfect.
@kevinchia88
@kevinchia88 Жыл бұрын
I am so not used to Crin being so polite.
@payman.amini1
@payman.amini1 13 күн бұрын
Only 693 likes for this video where Crinacle and (much) more importantly the biggest name in the headphones's world talk? If you like headphones, if care about headphones you should listen and pay more attention to these valuable people (Sean Olive, Oratory1990, Crinacle...). I want to thanks "The Headphone Show" you for bringing these very interesting and important videos to us.
@variancelog
@variancelog Жыл бұрын
Congrats on getting approval for your upcoming target research from Dr. Olive!
@grios4624
@grios4624 Жыл бұрын
Harman target isn’t everything but it’s a very good starting point
@variancelog
@variancelog Жыл бұрын
I hope this helps more people realize that adherence to or deviation from a target curve doesn't equate to more or less correct. Headphones and IEMs are too reactive with individual hearing systems to warrant a universal standard for correctness, even apart from individual preferences.
@OldkidLivegen
@OldkidLivegen Жыл бұрын
That guy is obviously DMS wearing makeup. The production value has increased exponentially since Hi-Fi cop, though
@GadZookz
@GadZookz Жыл бұрын
Sean Olive and DMS sound very much alike. If DMS really is Spider-Man, could Dr. Olive be a future variant of DMS who has been displaced by the multiverse? What does Resolve know and when did he know it?
@Armbrust210
@Armbrust210 Жыл бұрын
Damn you're totally right. Not all the time, but i noticed it the instant i read your comment. Funny
@GadZookz
@GadZookz Жыл бұрын
@@Armbrust210 I’m pretty sure Metal 571 also suspected this but we don’t know if he told Resolve or has been waiting for proof. 🤔
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
Well, at least you know my name. On the other hand, headphone Super-heroes have to protect their identities with mysterious initials :) Maybe DMS is Batman (or Robin), and I am Bruce Wayne?
@GadZookz
@GadZookz Жыл бұрын
@@tonmeister86 Nice try but my eye is still on the ball. If you are not a future version of DMS then you must be one of the Sean Olive clones left over from the Harman experiments. 🙂
@stevenswall
@stevenswall 10 ай бұрын
Everyone has different hearing... But if you have hearing that performs a 3dB boost at a certain frequency, then a high fidelity earphone producing next to your ear what would be next to your ear at a live performance would sound correct to you, and compensating for that wouldn't sound realistic.
@Dicloneus66
@Dicloneus66 Жыл бұрын
5:12 That's all I wanted to hear. Current stores (at least in the Americas) are severely lacking in one thing, and that is the opportunity for us consumers to audition the products. ONZO in Japan has overcome this by starting a ***RENTAL SERVICE*** , and they've recently partnered with Fujiya Avic to offer a wider range of products. This way, consumers don't have to go through the hassle of learning to read squigs or relying on often biased reviews. It's even better imo since you can try the products at the comfort of your own home, a more realistic simulation of your everyday usage compared to a noisy in-store audition.
@HDpresident
@HDpresident Жыл бұрын
Just order products on Amazon and make use of their 30-days-return policy? I know, many amps and DACs are not on Amazon, but even me in Austria have gotten my ways to find a hardware store to try out most common things. You just need to know where and how to look.
@Dicloneus66
@Dicloneus66 Жыл бұрын
​@@HDpresident As much as that may be a solution for cheaper products, it gets difficult for those that lie in the higher end. The main reason why reviews and measurements took off in the first place is the reluctance to shell out hundreds of your hard earned cash for something you don't know if you'll like it or not. Shelling out 1/10 the MSRP to rent the product and later earning the credits to put towards purchases lowers the bar for those people. What consumers can also do in their part is to start a more fluid used market system. The thing is that people have become so reluctant on even buying the cheapest of things due to current economic states. Anyways, my point being experience trumps everything. Easier, faster, and gives the whole picture compared to having to learn how to read curves and navigate biased reviews. Think about the time being spent on researching when that time could be easily spent on listening to your favorite tunes with that product.
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
The Harmon target is just a curve based on the average listener and average music but who's to say what average music is. If most mastering engineers decided to put more bass in their mix then you'd have to throw the Harman Target out the window. The Harmon Target usually doesn't give the best result for all music. For example most headphones I have to EQ if I want to improve punch and slam. It's a pity Sean didn't talk about the circle of confusion.
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
@@neandrewthal so what's the solution?
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
@@neandrewthal EW?
@kyron42
@kyron42 Жыл бұрын
@@neandrewthal yep I EQ all my headphones and IEMs. It's so easy to improve the sound. Don't understand why more people don't use EQ. They can't be that hearing impaired.
@geereesh77
@geereesh77 Жыл бұрын
DMS would look like Dr. Olive in 2050.
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
For his sake, I hope not.
@geereesh77
@geereesh77 Жыл бұрын
@@tonmeister86 :D
@sheep7255
@sheep7255 Жыл бұрын
completely off topic, but are the nth 100 good?
@ResolveReviews
@ResolveReviews Жыл бұрын
no.
@sheep7255
@sheep7255 Жыл бұрын
@@ResolveReviews so what would be a decent pair of closed backs for 150-250
@ResolveReviews
@ResolveReviews Жыл бұрын
@@sheep7255 k371, or Maxwell or you can swing it.
@sheep7255
@sheep7255 Жыл бұрын
@@ResolveReviews Will look into it. Thanks for the help
@sidesaladaudio
@sidesaladaudio Жыл бұрын
Nth100 have a fatal flaw with the slider mechanism where they way it puts pressure when stretched on the head causes the plastic bracket holding it together to break
@PartyMusic775
@PartyMusic775 Жыл бұрын
We need to interview superhearing people, real Golden Ears people with perfect pitch and color hearing (most people are color-deaf). I say this because when normal people listen to ultra-hifi, at first they don't notice, but eventually start noticing character enough that they start notice qualitative inferiority in sound quality afterward. Clarification: in audiophile circles "color" means non-neutrality. In musician circles, "color" means something very similar to visual color differences at certain wavelengths, for example C#/Db is reported as analogous to ultraviolet, and so on.
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
I used to have perfect pitch when I was playing an instrument every day. Hearing in colors ( Synesthesia )is rare. Over my career doing listening experiments, I've not come across "super hearing people." Listeners under 18 years tend to have measurably better hearing than older listeners, and that can matter for some types of tests. But with proper training & normal hearing, most people have the potential to be good listeners. That being said, some people simply do not have the ability to evaluate sound, and this can be quantified.
@samyg123
@samyg123 Жыл бұрын
Andrew - let me ask a bunch of questions about your research and the talk you gave Crinacle- let me tell you about what I’m doing so you can endorse it as a good idea 🤣
@xSil3nt27
@xSil3nt27 Жыл бұрын
mr dr sean
@depthnos9248
@depthnos9248 Жыл бұрын
Crinacle seems a little nervous 😅
@matejzima8210
@matejzima8210 Жыл бұрын
wow, this guy is Mlok Scamander in real life.
@tdg176
@tdg176 Жыл бұрын
He seems not to fond of Canadians 😂
@TheHEADPHONEShow
@TheHEADPHONEShow Жыл бұрын
He is Canadian...
@sidesaladaudio
@sidesaladaudio Жыл бұрын
@@TheHEADPHONEShow but does that mean we have to be fond of other Canadians?
@tdg176
@tdg176 Жыл бұрын
​@@TheHEADPHONEShow Thought he came across rude but it now makes sense lol.🤣
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
Eh?
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
@@sidesaladaudio I'm dual US-Canadian Citizen. If you don't like Canadians focus on my American qualities, and vice versa.
@koo3144
@koo3144 Жыл бұрын
Give the man some water! This is so hard to listen.
@EJK1965
@EJK1965 Жыл бұрын
I still don't understand what's with all the ridiculous names
@pisderata
@pisderata Жыл бұрын
harman is not neutral bro
@amirfakhri7296
@amirfakhri7296 Жыл бұрын
I clearly choose harman @jbl v signatures .Others chi-fi is total crap they need the audiphiles target , usually all follow harman and tune again with company signatures.
@longkick649
@longkick649 Жыл бұрын
Sick of this one word "Harman"🤮
@tonmeister86
@tonmeister86 Жыл бұрын
We didn't come up with that name. I think Tyl Hertsens called it the Olive-Welti curve but the headphone community preferred to call it something else. What should we call it?
@reformierende_person
@reformierende_person Жыл бұрын
​@@tonmeister86 LongKick 64 Real Objective Target
A New Harman Target for 2024??
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