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The quality of the guests on this podcast and the maturity of the conversations is breathtaking. It's absolutely fascinating to listen to guests of this standard being interviewed in such a capable manner.

You have to get Eliza back on she's so straight talking and no nonsense. It's like a breath of fresh air

"IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 911" MY HEART BLEEDS FOR ALL THE INNOCENT SOULS THAT LOST THEIR LIVES IN THAT ILLEGAL AND FALSE WAR!!! 💔

Campbell hosting this particular podcast is the equivalent of Alec Baldwin being judge and jury in his own personal manslaughter trial.

I forced myself to Listen to this excellent discussion as I loathe Campbell. The brass neck of him to sit there not acknowledging his part in the lies surrounding 9/11. What a treasure Eliza is

Wasn’t Campbell the one who made the invasion of Iraq “sexy” and got up on Newsnight lecturing us. I wish David Kelly was here to be asked some questions. Oh wait, that was Campbells first body.

This is probably the most intelligent and fascinating broadcast that The Rest is Politics has ever done.

The absolute cheek of Alastair Campbell to sit there talking about Iraq and dishonesty in politics.

How Campbell has the bare faced cheek to discuss Iraq is beyond me. He has no shame but then again, we all knew that.

Virtually the whole country knew that. When Bush said "Iraq" we were all screaming at the telly "Wtf's Iraq got to do with it ?".

"Mistakes were made," said an entrant in the Understatement Of The Year competition.

It is only due to the quality of these two guests that I could stomach an hour and a quarter of a conversation in which Alastair Cambell was present.

I think this is my favourite KZfaq video. As a Secondary School pupil, I really liked Eliza Manningham-Buller and don't care about her background. She cut through crap like a hot knife.

I wish Alistair would admit that he was indirectly involved in the death of Dr Kelly. He has no sense of guilt.

I don't know how Campbell has got the gall to sit there & discuss Iraq

EMB came across as knowledgeable and formidable. Glad that she was forthright in calling out the hoax that was Iraq & I noticed Alistair keeping mum at that point.

Get the two spies their own podcast: rest is espionage?

Mistakes, millions died a mistake That's why we are hated Mistakes were made Unbelievable

Loved the contrast between Eliza and John - one very clearly a straight-talking career Intelligence Officer and the other a very skilful diplomat.

Thanks all. Such a pleasure to listen to thoughtful people taking like adults.

I think the child who brought up Lumumba was spot on how confident are we that we've been on the right side of history. Also getting a job via a tap on the shoulder at dinner party wow!

You can tell she’s enormously competent, mature, and likely ruthless. Exactly the type of dedicated person you’d want at the head of a service like MI6.

"Are you writing the Labour Manifesto Alistair?" 😂 Eliza is superb.

That is 1 reason for putting Bush jr. and Cheney in prison. It absolutely had nothing to do with 9/11

Alistair sitting innocently like he never advocated for the war, never rounded up the troops

Been listening with ever increasing amounts of respect. So good to listen to people who'd normally never seek the limelight.

Rory backtracking rapidly after being called out for exaggerating was a gem.

This podcast should be mandatory for secondary school students. Its so refreshing to hear intelligent people having a well thought out conversation. Great episode :)

Wow. I loved this! We need more openness and transparent honesty! In particular Eliza, respected her bluntness and honesty.

😂the "nukes" threat of Iraq was Sadam's petroleum export in currencies other than the USD

This was one of THE BEST podcasts I’ve ever seen. Incredibly informative

The way Eliza teleported out of the studio was most impressive.

She didn’t fall “into” MI5 by charnce! You went to the “right” school, had the “right” family, “right” connections. You’re the establishment protecting the establishment. Someone taps me in the shoulder at a “dinner party” it’s to tell me there’s no beer left in the fridge.

It’s scary that they’re sitting there constantly avoiding the fact that ALISTAIR CAMPELL was instrumental in confusing and supporting the event that led to Iraq. Be sure to remember that all the analysis of this horrible conflict (on HIS podcast) will only seek to exonerate himself

Slightly confused why the quote "Iraq had nothing to with 9/11" is the thumbnail. Isn't that a bit like quoting someone as saying that on a sunny day the sky is blue? Are there really still (sane) people who are unclear about that?

Interesting discussion. I keep banging on about Gaza/Israel and hoping someone, other than me, recognises that this crisis isn’t just about the Hamas atrocity; it is a continuation of events that started in the year I was born, 1948 and the Nakba. You displace a population that’s been there for hundreds of years, you steal their land, settle it with your own people; you oppress the refugees, you let Lebanese militias murder men, women and children in refugee camps, you even divert the water supplies away from their remaining land, you build walls round the small areas you’ve allowed them to retain, you let your settlers run riot, kill their animals, burn their orchards; the list goes on and on; and then, when the inevitable happens and they revolt, you murder men, women, children, foreign aid workers, medical staff; you even kill your own hostages who are trying to tell you that they are Israelis: this cycle of theft, atrocities, repression has to stop or be stopped. And if the Israeli State won’t act, won’t change; then the West has to. There are enough on both sides who recognise that the future has to be a viable Palestinian State and a viable Israeli State at peace with each other. Whether you are a Palestinian or an Israeli; that is the only humanitarian chance your children and grandchildren can have of living a decent secure life. If this isn’t sorted, and sorted soon, there will a massive war eventually in the Middle East with death and destruction on a scale far in excess of today. Now some folk will react to this by classifying me as anti-semitic. I have close friends on both sides: I grew up with friends who’s mothers and fathers survived the Concentration camps in Germany and Poland….so don’t jump to that antisemitic assumption please! It’s being used too often as a political excuse in my opinion. I am an old man and it grieves me to my soul to witness what I see happening day after day in Gaza, the West Bank and in Israel and to know just by bitter experience that it will happen again if wiser heads do not prevail…and if necessay do not enforce.

What I truly enjoy about this channel - parroting other comments posted here - is the quality of both guests and the “grown up” conversations being held. We’re not all deaf and dumb to the realities of real politics. Thanks for treating us like adults. 😊

Campbell was complicit in the great deception. His levels of self-deception are beyond measurement.

I appreciate the part where she addresses Islamophobia and acknowledges that some of their assets are Muslims who are willing to sacrifice their lives in order to protect those who incite hate speech towards them.

Talking about difficult and interesting subjects. No screeching, no sermonizing. Just four grownups in a room talking, what a show! Maybe it will catch on...

How does Mr Campbell sit in on this discussion with a straight face. Wasn't he the person who helped Blair lie his way into the Iraq war, despite massive opposition from other European countries and the British electorate. Did Campbell think that over 1 million of us on the streets of London were protesting about the weather?

One of the best videos I’ve watched in a long time, glued to the video from beginning to end. Well done chaps

Amongst the best single podcast episode I've ever listened too. Thanks!

Given the litany of stupidity we hear from members of the current government, it's reassuring to hear the voices of informed experts.

Campbell was wrong. I wish he would admit it.

Two excellent interiewees who really get to the heart of challenges facing intelligence and security services. Highlights of the interview (for me) are: 1) the honesty that Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 and the honesty with how intelligence was handled badly and used in a way that was inappropriate. 2) the need for ethical considerations and legal frameworks to guide and enable professional intelligence services. 3) the fact that opponents who are forced to use terrorism and other asymmetric warfare often attempt to trigger disproportionate military overreactions - it's what they hope and rely on 4) the role of intelligence in WWII and in handling Soviet misconceptions over the intentions of the West in 1983. 5) the interface of intelligence and political instincts and decisions. I would enjoy listening to these individuals talking about the nuances and judgements in modern challenges for Western democracies facing current and emerging threats from Russia, China, North Korea, the Middle East. A return and continuation please.

I’d just like to say this was one of the most interesting and informative podcasts I’ve ever listened to. Truly excellent stuff, thank you. I have a huge amount of respect for the people who work in military intelligence and devote their lives to the protection of our nation’s values.

The lack of shame from the 2 presenters is absolutely breathtaking. One a political propagandist who promoted the illegal invasion and the other one got to live out his victorian fantasy of being a British colonial governor as part of the illegal occupation.

As Eliza insinuated the Iraq Dossier was Campbell’s (bullying) work…

Easily the best Leading episode so far. Astonishingly frank and open - detail included I didn't think would be okay to mention. Shame there isn't a part 2.

Blair didn’t care that Iraq didn’t have WMDs, he just wanted to become rich and famous.

Been a long time since Ive been proud to be British, so listening to these dedicated, clever and decent people - products of UK education, society and values - working at the core of UK public institutions -is a real revelation and morale-booster. Thanks. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Two brilliant guests with their feet firmly on the ground! I thought we had lost such sensible folk!

Superb. Insightful. Engaging. Thank you all. BTW, I’d never heard of Eliza before - a real gem of a human being. I wish her more influence in the future.

Outstanding podcast. Having such intelligent public servants talk about their roles, etc is so refreshing

I like my spies being as thoughtful as these two. They have served their country well. Brava and bravo!

51:54 "...they, by and large, are exceptions" 🤣 Sawer appeared to me to be sanitising of intelligence work, and this segment just confirmed it. Manningham-Buller seemed more genuine.

Regime change because of US national security issues ? No, US corporate interests. Put things back together in Iraq after kulling 1 million people. Brushes over Libya that had no international debt, free hospitals, free University, free lots of things, Now Libya is in turmoil and in debt to American banks. These people digust me , they've got serious superiority issues.

21:04 “Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11” I remember walking through London in protest, along with hundreds of thousands of people who explained this with specific documentation and fact-based reasoning.

Eliza is excellent. Outstanding guests. Thanks, guys.

Its almost as if with this podcast they want us to believe MI5/MI6/Government are trustworthy ......so we trust them in future events. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I thought we already knew this. Such individuals interviewed are going straight to Hell, let’s not mistake ourselves thinking they performed dignified work or served the public honorably. Such dour, sour, haughty arrogance.

I don´t think for one moment ex members of the British Secret Services could be either open or honest. Managed truths and lies at best. Alistair and Rory gave a very polished presentation as usual.

Boy, you've got to admire Campbell's front. sitting there smiling and laughing about the panic, misery and chaos caused by the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq. Utterly shameless.

Absolutely fascinating. Experience, integrity and intelligence on full display around the table. Could have listened to these wise folk for hours. Thanks to Rory & Alistair for this brilliant series.

The Iraq war was a total illegal war. How the UK was dragged into this was ridiculous. 179 British servicemen died in this conflict. And what for... to keep happy the American government at the time, some spoiled rich kid with barely any political experience. I was in Gulf War 1 with the British Army, and we all said we would be back in the desert very soon. There would be no way that the Americans were going to let Saddam stay in power. Also if Saudi or Kuwait had no oil, no one would have cared about the invasion of Kuwait. And look at where it all got us to today..

Rory trying to pretend he isn't/wasn't 6 is quite funny ... :)

I was on a run ashore in Brixham from Courageous in 75. We were a sneaky boat. A young chap from MI5 joined us. Stood out like a sore thumb. (His mission was to find out how much of a security risk we were when drunk. Which is why he stood many rounds. Which was nice).

Listening now I find it ludicrous that there was not sufficient oversight to challenge the governments view, in order to avoid an occasion where a weapon expert felt they had to make a nuanced remark on the validity of evidence in consideration to their own assessment of Iraq's WMD capability. (The claims appeared to be quietly withdrawn as fast they were made, as if the projection in parliament was indeed for effect). The subsequent assault on public servants & institutions who basically questioned the logic were basically told 'it not in the national interest'. It therefore begged the question what was? The weakening of BBCs impartiality, to establish 'a yes men culture' arguably dismissed scrutiny to the point, the conditioning to be patronising for the listener. Tony Blair with his augments, did not make sense at the time! How to avoid conflict is supposed to be the key!

Interesting to listen to these first hand insights and summaries of our more recent history. Basically they agree that much was fixed in the context of Iraq. One question of many that remain is, if the UK will ever find the backbone to go against US intentions. Looking at that episode it seems quite obvious, that the intelligence services were more a tool to rectify than to investigate thoroughly. To remain measured the latter seems a more sane approach as we in Europe are more often than not suffering the consequences of actions.

Excellent interview with incredibly interesting guests.

Very enjoyable. I liked the way you discussed the guests after the pod cast ended

This was a fantastic joint interview. My partner and I listened to it in silence during a recent car journey. It was bliss 😂 please do a part two!

Rare glimpse into our intelligence system....great episode.

ALIESTER CAMPBELL WAS THE GUY BEHIND THE DODGY DOSSIER LÒLÓL

Really enjoyed listening to both, fascinating discussion, so much good sense, speaking from 40-50 years of public service experience.

It's interviews like this that make this podcast so special. I am a simple middle aged woman who takes an interest in politics but is no politico, yet I find these interviews must listens. Thank you for educating me.

I like the little boy who asked about Patrice Lumumba (I am from South Africa) ❤

Wonderful conversation! Fantastic hosting of fantastically interesting guests!

Without a doubt the most interesting, intriguing and informative video I've ever watched on KZfaq. Fascinating individuals. Superb episode.

Amazing episode again. The quality of this podcast is unmatched. Super insightful in a short amount of time. The candidness of these individuals compared to their U.S. counterparts is very much appreciated.

Disappointed to hear the myopic views of these 2 grandees on the genocide in Gaza. As if it all started on October 7th. Interesting as the conversation was, clearly all 4 are establishment figures and very comfortable in conversation with each other, in part for that reason.

Love the old way of recruitment… when a university professor, a friend approaches you 👌🏻

Things certainly have come a long way, and this interview clearly indicates it's been an enormous success. Engaging and insightful, and who knows, perhaps it even recruited a few a long the way. Great interview.

So iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? Someone should've told alistair that back in 2003.

Why not just have the two hosts speaking honestly about their roles ?

Hearing the way Alistair and Rory talk about someone's dress sense and casually connecting it to their socioeconomic status is incredibly insightful.

Eliza's story sounds like "the Laundry files"

Amazing content! Keep it up lads

Fabulous interesting guests, thank you.

This is one of the best conversations we have had. And I've got the pleasure of listening to.

Who murdered Dr David Kelly?

They should be asking the host why he created the dossier to influence the papers.

what a cool boss this woman is!

Having read Spycatcher, the ideal character for someone to become head of our security agencies would be someone nobody could tell was a double agent.

Everyone’s always telling us how Russia’s the biggest threat to Europe but never explains why. Also, if you or I made a “mistake” which resulted in the death of someone we’d be in the dock in the blink of an eye. Why has not a single politician ever been prosecuted for the millions of deaths that resulted from the war in Iraq, which AT BEST was a mistake?

I still think there’s little doubt what Iraq was really about, and it is access to oil. A total disgrace.

Wonderful interview, as always, both in terms of the questions and the quality of the guests and their responses. I did find it amusing that John Sawers, when listing "America´s closest allies", failed to mention the US´s largest trading partner: Canada. 🙂

Would be great to have Eliza back on on her own -