This is a good comment

Hearing that caught me off base, I was laughing so hard

I was thinking the exact same thing

it's actualy insane how this guy consistently acts like a spoiled child, he puts effort into that lmao

what did leffen do

@@Todoza What -didn't- he do would be an easier answer.

@@ThatSneakman what didnt he do?

@@Todoza Honestly if you look up Leffen drama you'll find loads

That is true that they have been buffed heavily, but even after all the buffs, which was back in 2020, the character still extremely overlooked/underrated until earlier this year.

Buffs changed the game so much. Falcon main and he used to really suck, now he’s just inconsistent but so good at getting in compared to before

Same with Diddy, Marss seemed so surprised to see him in low tier, but he genuinely had a bottom 3 recovery it was just so bad. He got so many buffs since then, especially the recovery buff, BUT he was definitely AT BEST mid-tier at the start of Ult. There’s also Bayo too…crazy buffed character

@@the_bookworm8281 Neo and Shadic weren’t top 20 level players in 2020. The character was unexplored due to how bad they were before the buffs, so of course it took time. The same could be said with Falcon. Even after the buffs, it took time for people like Karaage and Jogibu to start doing good with the character. What you fail to realize is unrated doesn’t mean underrated.

@@ZizouEnjoyer225 I know, that is what my comment is trying to portray. Maybe I worded it a little off... Still, it is unusual for a modern fighting game character to go under the radar for as long as Corrin has in Ultimate.

Went from bad to mid. Wahoo

@@art2norrman872not even mid I would say he’s easily high tier now

@ZizouEnjoyer225 who ????

@@art2norrman872 I wouldn’t say mid; they are definitely a good character.

@@art2norrman872ignorant or rage bait folks what u think

Hi esamuel

Hello Electronic Samuel

Mii brawler is wordt character in the game lmao

@@mr.m878 believe in the brawler. not top 15 but easily top 25

She used to be worse yes, but I think she was still kinda ok before the buffs. It's just the general shock of her not being undeniably top 15 like in smash 4 shocked much of the playerbase into writing the character off completely. Which honestly happened with EVERY smash 4 character that got even slightly nerfed into Ult. Cloud, Corrin, Bayo, Diddy, Sonic etc. Then they got lost in the zeitgeist of an early meta Ultimate with 80 other characters to look at. I look back at early Ult like this: If you weren't top 10 or bottom 10, you were basically invisible. The only characters that got truly buttfucked from 4 to Ult are Marth and Mewtwo. Mewtwo abused Smash 4 mechanics and infinite airdodge more than any other character barring Bayo bat within shenanigans. It's arguably karmic justice that Mewtwo gets his tail extended in the next game lmao. Marth is just a case of a good character stuck in the wrong game. Marth SHOULD work but the engine just works against him so hard. He's a good character trapped in the wrong game, like Brawl Falcon and Smash 4 Roy before him.

@@dragnjames2190 can you explain what you mean by Good character in the wrong game

@@doofuscawt Marth in Ultimate has everything he needs to be successful. Good mobility, solid edge guarding, wide sweeping area denial aerials. Just look at Lucina. The crux of Marth's issues lies in the pacing of Ultimate itself and how fast characters are able to move, the jostling/body blocking mechanics in Ultimate that people can use to intentionally make Marth whiff his sweetspots and the overall more precise hitboxes for his aerials in general. Marth's tippers aren't as generous as in previous games, combined with the higher speed of the cast means Marth has less time to setup. I believe he'd benefit from a more grounded, almost turtle-like playstyle akin to Ryu. Marth's tilts are absolutely amazing and are downright better than most bottom tier characters as a whole. If Marth's tippers were even a tiny bit bigger, like Byleth's for example, he'd be able to truly shine brighter. The same goes for Brawl Falcon. Brawl Falcon retains his good Melee hitboxes for the most part, as well as his amazing mobility stats and good reach. Brawl being Brawl however, doesn't allow Falcon to combo as well as he realistically should and that's honestly one of the only things holding him back. The other is Falcon's susceptibility to chaingrabs due to his fall speed but that's a cast-wide problem in Brawl as a whole. Smash 4 Roy was always kinda goodish atleast in my opinion. The devs gave him that faster paced rushdown/glue eater playstyle he's known for now in Ult. However, the atmosphere in 4 demanded that he run up and shield and be forced to play around stronger shields in a meta where swords kind of sucked unless you were Cloud or had a serious gimmick to compensate, Ala Corrin Pin. The game simply wasn't aggressive enough for Roy to properly be able to abuse his strengths. He couldn't run around, spamming aerials like he can in Ult. These strengths would later be doubled down on and form his new top tier identity in Ultimate.

@@dragnjames2190 ok thanks for the explanation

Crazy they would buff corin's recovery but never doc's recovery 😅

I wishee that move was never fixed. Now he can do falling upair as a combo starter :/

haha, funni up air to up b go b o i n g

Yeah with this buff he went froom bottom to top3 😂😂

Well hold on, pre-patch sonic up air literally just didn’t work

Sonic multi was non functional

I think Pichu would still be running around and we would see probably higher Peach results but about the same amount of that character. I agree Wolf and Inkling would go down. Except for maybe Sonic I agree that those characters would have risen, but ROB and Snake were threats in the early game anyway.

Palutena and Peach would still be meta

@@ZizouEnjoyer225 I mean that is true cause they are still very meta to this day. XD Just not literally everywhere like during year 1.

@@android4754can’t forget all the Olimars that would still be running top 8s

Palu with the 10 year nair

Are you okay man

@@dh.9752 He's good

Definitely a strong top 10 contender. Imagine edge guarding without sour spots plus better matchups vs characters that need spacing or are difficult to hit with precise combo starters (ex. Mr. G&W up-b or Sonic spindashing)

His up B was one of the reasons he was good at the start. He'd have a 0-Death combo that would end in a chromcide.

I wouldn't say significantly. He's definitely noticeably better from how he was in early versions of the game, but he wasn't buffed nearly as much as other characters. Also I really doubt that Falco's spot on the tier list would change much if he didn't get those buffs.

@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 nair being fixed, d tilt and side special getting faster. Those are very important buffs. No one was playing him until those changes

​@@ojutay8375 How much of that has to do with the buffs themselves and how much of that has to do with Falco being overlooked early on in the game's meta due to him being a low tier character in Smash 4 G&W is a primary example of a Smash 4 low tier being overlooked early on in the game's meta and having his place in the meta improving despite not receiving any buffs.

@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 well yes but obviously the buffs helped.

Same with mega man

CHRUE ​@@Supersonic37838

Wasn’t he nerfed? (Yes I know his recovery would move him down)

@@LamalBetta His nair got slightly nerfed, but his everything else got greatly buffed in patches. It is just that we heavily overrated him at launch and his car crash spiral to the low tiers today reflects this.

@@LamalBetta I'd describe it as Ike was reworked in a way that ended up putting him in a worse spot from where he was due to his primary win condition (nair into up air) being nerfed really hard. Plenty of his other moves were buffed to compensate, like his up b, down tilt, dash attack, and fair.

Bro his nair was probably the best in the game before it got nerfed. He was indeed a potential top tier

Normal link is cheeks bro, he requires brain cells and his moves are slow and laggy. (Except Nair ofc)

Not true. The first major won by zss was Collision 2019 by Marss. Then he won Smash factor 8. And only then did Kuro win Umebura Sp6.

Ok I’m sorry

Dawg