the audience is smart... and underestimated... Joni Mitchell did a radio interview on the CBC in Canada quite a few years ago and I never forgot what she said: "Everybody knows the music business is run by crooks. At least in the old days, the crooks liked music"... What a memorable quote.

You know what's great about this interview? Rick didn't interrupt Ted like so many other interviewers do. Only short affirmations that he's listening, and following what Ted is saying. It's like the 10+ minute song of interviews.

I like Frank Zappas take on making music; "Theres a certain kind of person who likes my music, and I make it for them" (paraphrasing). Effectively, make what you want to make and you'll manifest an audience who appreciates it.

Please have him back on as a guest and talk about more stuff. This is probably my favorite video on the channel now.

"I've studied this..." "I've looked into this..." The number of times Ted started a point saying this was incredibly refreshing. What an insightful and intellectual conversation. Actual INFORMED thoughts on display here. What a rarity in this world we live in. Thank you for having this talk, guys. Ted, I'm a fan now. And Rick, you're a gift .

What an amazing conversation. I would love a part 2 to this! Who is with me?!

Rick, this comment deserves it's own thread. You are a very talented interviewer. I've seen it happen, far too often, that a KZfaqr gets a power guest on, and then crumbles under the load. You did a fabulous job of steering this interview while maintaining a very light grasp on the wheel. Kudos!!

Dear Rick, I'm a Musician from Germany. This is one of the most interesting Videos I've ever watched and listened to on KZfaq in 20 years. Thank you so much, more of this! Great content on your Channel overall , may you get more great Guests and Topics onto your Channel in the Future . Love, Timmy

I interviewed Ted a few years ago for his book about the Delta blues. Beyond being intelligent and talented, he was the most well-spoken author whom I've ever interviewed.

“Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.” - Jean-Michel Basquiat

Great interview. As a struggling local singer-songwriter who is out in the trenches, I can tell you there is great new music out there on the local and regional level, but good luck ever hearing any of it because no major supports it and their monopoly power controls what most people hear. If the majors release something new that does not completely suck, I am astounded. Innovation and the best of what is new is coming from local artists who produce their own music, but they are not likely to ever get rewarded for it.

I remember back in 1975 a year when there were 35 #1 hits on the billboard hot 100. That was a healthy, diverse year in music.

14:38 "People don't have the attention span for anything longer" The TV industry largely disproves this. Some of the most popular and beloved shows of the last 15 years have been complicated, artistic masterpieces that ppl will happily spend hours upon hours binging and rewatching over and over. This shows that people are willing to engage with complex art and spend large amounts of time with it, but the people in charge of major labels refuse to learn anything from other forms of entertainment that are currently kicking music's butt. Overly compressed mastering is also an issue because everything sounding louder reduces the emotional impact of the parts of songs that are supposed to be more exciting so ppl don't feel as connected to the music even when it is well written and skillfully performed.

This video is the most intellectually stimulating and informative hour of content I've watched in goodness knows how long. I have never heard these topics related to music framed in such a brilliant and well communicated manner. Anyone with any level of influence in the industry needs to hear what Ted is saying and really pay attention to it.

As a music therapist of 25 plus years I find talks like these so educational. Another point I have noticed in regards to running groups with people is that the common song is leaving us. When you think communities knew the same music for thousands and thousands of years and now individuals have access to such a variety of music from around the world, it's makes it challenging to share music as a group.

I want more of this guy ... please bring him back ...

The concept of, “If it’s interesting to me, it’ll be interesting to you.” It’s so simple, yet psychologically profound.

Just when you might think that Rick Beato doesn't have anything left to pull out of his extremely deep pockets, he reaches a little further and pulls this out. A fascinating interview. You, sir, are for many of us the most important commentator on/professor of all things music. Thank you!

Great interview. I’m proud of my record collection and can still listen to my first albums bought in the 60’s. My daughter 20 ,is also buying albums and cds and will inherit mine. Years ago when my nephew said he pays for a Spotify subscription I said “ but you’ll never own anything and one day they’ll just take it away” This happened to me with Amazon. Woke up one day and 3 years of my playlists and downloads gone. No recourse. Just greed from the largest retailer in the world. Same with Netflix and Amazon video,less and worse content double the price.

It's amazing to listen to his analysis of Spotify, and what he thought was going to happen. Knowing what happened just about a half year later. With Spotify stopping payments to small artists. Which means that the majority of royalty payments are now going to the power players in the industry. He was pretty spot on.

regarding the 3 minute songs: Billy Joel wrote already in 1974: "I am the entertainer I come to do my show You heard my latest record It's been on the radio Ah, it took me years to write it They were the best years of my life It was a beautiful song but it ran too long If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit So they cut it down to 3:05"

I believe we lost an important "arm" of music when the merchandising was reduced to cassettes, CDs and then NOTHING. I am referring to the Album and not for the vinyl enclosed but for the wonderfullness of the album artwork, from simple headshots and group shots to the complexity of SPLHCB and graphics that offered your individual interpretation. The hours getting lost in those images, WHILE the music PLAYED were priceless.

I'm about to play Chicago's 25 or 6 to 4 for another hour. Sometimes it's the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter. Sometimes it's Earth Wind & Fire's Fantasy. Last week it was Seal's Kiss from a Rose. A few weeks back it was Journey's Don't Stop Believing. Hey Jude was a few months ago. Over and over and over and over. Never once! Never! It's true about the trance. Music kept me sane throughout a difficult childhood in a dysfunctional family. It was an escape. A refuge. It took me away for just enough time to recover from my mother's unsettling presence and be ready for her return from work.

There are different moments is life where you have different attention spans. Sometimes you're in your car and you want a fast 3-minute song, and sometimes you're in your room in the evening and you want a full album to listen to. It's not one or the other, it's both we need.

when he said, an environment that doesn't allow creators to take chances, that really sums it up. and ultimately that ends creating a corrupt culture, art taking the second seat. great interview

This man has a beautiful synthesis of intellect and heart

How come nobody talks about the elephant in the room?: ABUNDANCE OF CHOICE. The problem are not the capitalist pigs at Spotify or a misalignment in the interests of the music supply chain. The problem is that, before, we used to have to put a lot of effort to listen to a single song let alone a full album or explore a genre. Now everything is a click of our fingers away. We could spend the rest of our living minutes listening to new music by paying a 10 bucks subscription and not even getting up from our chair. It's sooo easy to get music that we don't even bother to appreciate it because as humans we tend to appreciate way more what's way more difficult to get. This is why we climb mountains useless as that might seem to the universe. We don't need Spotify to disappear or vinyl to comeback. We need to pick and choose how are we gonna use our listening time without being easily distracted by an abundance of choice. It's not Spotify o Universal...it's us!

I just love that. "I wrote three thousand words, and no one could stop me!" He looks so happy 😊 lol

This is why classical music changed my life. Finally a piece of music that can keep me fully engrossed for 20, 30, 40… 80 minutes straight. It’s an entirely different experience than listening to a really good song for 3 or 4 minutes.

This needs to be required listening in every music program on the planet.

I LOVE Spotify because I listen to so much old music that's new to me. And Spotify gives us Podcasts that KZfaq wouldn't touch!

Thank you Rick for bringing up the magic in our musical culture! Thank you Sir!

What I love most about Rick’s interviews is that he knows how to set them moving in a direction, and then let the patter be about the guest, not about *himself*! Too many interviewers seem most concerned that you’ll be impressed with how smart *they* are. I find that nauseating, and Rick has none of that. Go Rick!

This is the single most erudite, intellectually stimulating, and frankly the absolute best podcast I’ve ever seen or listened to in my whole life. I cannot praise this sort of dialogue enough.

What I love most about this intelligent conversation is that they talk and they listen to each other without talking over top of each other like most interviewers and interviewees do these days, so refreshing.

What a brilliant interview. I'm not even a musician, just a long time fan of music who was a teenager in the late 80s. I found this discussion fascinating.

When they were discussing substack, I always felt like interrupting the to say: "There's a thing called Bandcamp". It is basically substack for musicians, right down to the 10% percent fee on sales. Regardless, awesome and fascinating conversation!

The big take away from this excellent interview is Rick and Ted should start a record label! You could crowd fund the start up cost from this community. Bach Records

The connection between shamanism, altered states, and music in general, is absolutely fascinating. Never thought about the length of songs, but in relation to altering brain waves and bringing about shifts in consciousness, it makes total sense.

Back in the 70s, Billy Joel recorded a song called The Entertainer (which he still plays live). A lot of the song is still incredibly relevant, but when you were talking about the song length, it reminded me of Billy's line: "If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit, so they cut it down to 3:05." This is a song from 1974, and we're in 2023, and it's incredible how true the message of it still is.

Super Vinyl is basically the CD...💿 The sound is "perfect" (highs and lows beyond human hearing) It was smaller but did come with art, liner notes, and most importantly OWNERSHIP!

Yes, let musicians produce whatever they care to. And, let us have it available to us. Most of all, let musicians be truly compensated for their magic. We seem to take their work for granted, since music is everywhere.

I’m in my 60’s and I agree that kids don’t have enough music to engage with these days. Growing up in the 70’s we had radio stations like WNEW in NYC where they’d often play an entire album side. When the albums came out we’d listen to it start to finish and pour over the liner notes. My daughter, in her 20’s complains that she can’t find new music. I don’t blame her. I listen to a pretty varied mix on Spotify, and each Monday I used to look forward to their ‘Discover Weekly’ which is supposed to be a curated list that hopefully turns you on to new stuff based on your listening habits. It’s always songs I’ve heard dozens of times. Whatever algorithm they’re using sucks. One bright note - I still have a few hundred albums and my kids gifted me a new turntable so lots of times we’ll put on an album over morning coffee. I guess there’s still hope?

What a fantastic conversation between you and Ted Gioia Rick. Mindblowing. I will have to watch it again. Thank you so much.

Have Ted on again. People, musicians, executives need to hear what this man has to say about the music industry. Great interview Rick, as usual.

Rick is such a music purist even his furniture is made out of speaker cabinets. Gotta love it.

As a life long music listener, lover and audiophile, I am here to tell you both. Vinyl is alive and technology supports better turn table transfer to your speakers with clean and beautiful sound at low costs that used to cost thousands of $$. I am playing vinyl that I took care of for 65 years that sounds better today than the day I bought it.

I'm only as far as the significance of 1600, but I'm totally in love with this interview. I've read The History of Jazz, but I had never heard Ted Gioia in an interview, and of course I'm a fan of Rick's. But this is just amazing! Wonderful! I'm painting a bedroom as I listen an it's putting me in a "trance." Haha! No, seriously - it is interviews like this, and people like Rick and Ted that make my life worth living. I was brought up on everything from Bach to Louis Prima, to the Olympics to the Delta Rhythm Boys. I have devoted my life to playing piano, all genres (although I'm known on KZfaq for Boogie Woogie) but I play classical and Scott Joplin, and pop and swingin' jazz too, and I have also devoted my life to listening to music, reading about it and watching KZfaq videos that are so old and cool, and previously obscure. Thank God for folks like Rick and Ted!

LOVE that you're doing a podcast Rick! Extra points for using your speaker cabs as legs for the table :)

Speaking of attention span, I thought there is no way I'm watching an interview that is this long. I thorougly enjoyed it in its entirety. Ted is incredible intelligent and interesting. Great interview, Rick.

I.m an energy healer and I noticed that during my therapy sessions when I play healing music in the 436 frequency and other melodic tracks which are often 5-7 minutes, I literally send my clients into a higher state of consciousness …. Last night I did my first jam with my new synthesisers and I was going through the presets until I found something that tickled my brain…. I stayed with that one look for 28minutes, adjusting frequencies and filters and various parameters … I filmed it so I could remember what I had tweaked and when… then I wondered, if I posted this, would anyone watch? I felt incredible when I had brought it to and…. It was a 28 -minute meditation on one loop….. I went into a trance and it was all based on what I felt needed to be adjusted along the way and I made the changes SLOWLY … AND WAITED… until they settled…. THIS. VIDEO GIVES ME HOPE!!!! I specialise in neurodivergent clients and they appreciate the opportunity to slow down during my sessions … I really hope the shamanic healing trance state starts to make a comeback. Even my favourite producer Jon Hopkins most recent album is slow and melodic and ethereal and he called it - MUSIC FOR PSYCHEDELIC THERAPY …. I truly hope after the great reset that the pandemic brought that this will be the new trend … people want more… people understood the need to slow down and be more introspective ….

One of Rick’s best ever videos. Ted”s passionate description of African music “the western musicians couldn’t write it down!!” was fascinating. I totally agree that the Blues was the foundation of modern Rock and Pop music. I always think of the Rolling Stones as proof.

In some ways you can say that love of longer form music was the reason so many albums from the 70'a-90's endure today, we fell in love w/ the *albums* as well as the songs in them. I remember when my friends and I would have album listening party's, Pink Floyd's Dark Side/The Wall, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, Queen's A Night at the Opera, Zeppelin's discography, the Beatles Rubber Soul, Sgt Peppers, Abbey Road etc, all these artists carefully chose the songs included and which side of the album they played on. The last song on side one would continue onto side two.... THIS is one of the biggest shames of the state of music today, the loss of the "Album Experience" when you would hear that whirr click and rush to your record player to flip to side two....great memories :)

The most encouraging thing I’ve seen in recent years is the rise of younger musicians using KZfaq as a platform to get their music into the public realm. There are some phenomenal young bands and musicians making superb music, based on creativity, musicianship, making nods to past music, looking forward to the future, and giving some faith that, however monetised the mainstream record labels, record charts and radio stations get, there will always be real bands, musicians, writers and artists who are interested in producing genuinely engaging new music. Just don’t look for it in the MSM!

Only 10 minutes into this and already think that this is one of the most interesting people on the planet. Great guest choice, Rick!

I immediately was reminded of how excited I was in 1967 when the "long version" of the Doors "Light My Fire" was played on the radio. It was 7 minutes long. It was an immediate disappointment when the "short version" was played. It was cut to only be just under 3 minutes. This has been one of the GREAT conversations you have had.

As a student who is 17, and just starting the journey of music studies and music making, this interview hones into the importance of learning how important it is to develop music that transcends the material world and elevates the mind. Hoping to expand the limits and reach the world with 10 minute tracks. Thank you for an informative and encouraging conversation.

This guy has so much insight! People talk about the biggest companies of these times: Apple, Google, etc.. No one ever talks about the giants such as RCA who pioneered as much or more than our current front runners. RCA moved so many different things forward. Not just records and music. The music industry has gotten so bad for the artists and the consumer. Intelligent guys like this need to be utilized to change directions.

That was fun! The topic of longer pieces, trance states etc was awesome! The Centrifugal Satz Clock has the worlds largest collections of these longer pieces that seek to transport the listener into special states of mind!

Tremendous interview. I’m a teacher, so I know that even in education the curriculum is built to pander; but when you teach texts that are challenging, it elevates the class’s ability to think critically, communicate thoughtfully, engage intellectually and play gracefully with ideas.

If this interview was a book, it would be underlined, highlighted, heavily annotated in the margins and placed on the top shelf. Awesome, thank you Rick!

Ted's discussion of induced trance state made me flash back to live '60s concerts, and how mesmerized audiences would be extending a studio cut out to 10+ minutes....Greatful Dead, Vanilla Fudge, InnaGoddaDavita, Allman Bros, Quicksilver' Edward the Mad Shirt Grinder, and the masters of entrancement, Pink Floyd.

I just moved back home and have a rock radio station on at work from Detroit. They are playing the same songs I heard when I was 12 yrs old, 45 years ago, with the addition of White stripes, Foo fighters and some modern Van Halen. They play Detroit rock city like it was on a current top 30 rotation.

This discussion is almost the exact internal discussion I had with myself about where I get my music from. I don’t see Apple or Spotify as entities that care about the music, which clearly they don’t. I have looked and searched for a platform that is more (or ideally all) about the music. The closest I have come to this in a streaming platform is Tidal. That being said, I have found myself at 41 years of back at record stores buying physical albums. It puts more money into the pockets of artists and there is a local connection through my locally-owned weirdo record shop. Above all, it makes music fun and enjoyable again for me. That’s really the point of music for me.

Man, I wish Ted ran a record label with his method. The resulting music would be epic.

Very good interview. No interruptions, good conversation, very interesting topics. Great content as always Rick

Rick, it would be really amazing having the enlightening Ted Gioia on a regular basis to talk about music or culture on your channel. What a great conversation! Congrats! I'm a big fan of both!

This is THE best conversation about music and the music "Bizz" I've ever heard. I was laughing out loud at times. Just point after point - golden nugget after golden nugget - what a joy!!!!!! You are both gifts to music.

The problem with NFTs is that you don't sell the content itself, but a token that contains a link to the artwork. Imagine that, instead of buying a single, you buy access to the single, without the assurance that the single will always be available. There is a big difference of having access to an NFT and having access to the thing the NFT is linked to. This is why NFTs will fail.

It has already been said, but man, that Ted is so intelligent and interesting to listen to. This interview was the best thing I've heard in a while. Rick, your content is just amazing. Thank you, and thank you, Ted Gioia.

This was an absolutely beautiful conversation..immense experience and humility.

Ted Gioia is the Neil Degrasse-Tyson of music and I loved every minute of this interview! Thank you Rick for this eye opening conversation.

There is one deaf composer alive today. The Scottish percussionist Evelyn Glennie. Bach begun loosing hearing while coming to age. Glennie was learning music and playing as deaf and learned to feel the music in different parts of the body.

This is the same "battle" (song length) that went on during the sixties and seventies regarding radio play. I remember the breakthrough to acceptance of the longer song was Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone"--15 minutes I think. People just had a cow over this. The Grateful Dead on vinyl had some a little longer, hours long at their live concerts. Then the special long version of The Door's "Light my Fire" which ran in double digits. We, as young musicians, loved it. There was time to "jam". This was the birth of rock improvisation. All the San Francisco psychedelic bands did it, but maybe not on their LP. But LP means long playing. They left the small 45 vinyl records behind. We were joyous! Now this is an issue again. Many blame the media sound bite creating low attention spans. etc. People these days can't read a full book--can't sit still for 15 minutes. I guess short songs left room for more advertising. So commercialism killed the long song.

This is an important aspect to the current times in general where attention spans seem to be getting so bad with many children, which is affecting their ability to study and learn. When it comes to music, you simply can not appreciate it unless you take the time and have the ability to allow your brain to learn it will be nothing more than a new noise. My biggest problem with appreciating most of modern day main stream music for example is just that it's so simple it's boring. Sure you can have a simple song that can be great, but when it's uplifted by amazing instrumentation, it can become an incredible song. Appreciation levels are different I guess.

Never hear of him before but this dude is fascinating, and Beato interviewed him to perfection. None of those five minute questions designed to make the interviewer look smart, just the minimum needed to explore the most interesting and insightful avenues. Really impressive on both sides of the conversation and really gave me insights I've never considered.

Trance, intellectual appreciation, and catharsis through dance or some other form of artistic expression - those are big reasons for music. The best compliment I've received as a musician is "you guys made me forget about my life for a few moments..." That's why we do what we do. Get into the music and disconnect from your own reality for a few moments. Then return to your life inspired to do better.

dear Mr Gioia and Mr Beato! in 1600 this is when we break away from the dictatorship of the Renaissance! This is the birth of the Baroque! I have written on the New Baroque. Guy Scarpetta wrote a book on the new baroque! The vanishing point dies, as Marshall McLuhan said, and suddenly the vanishing point turns to the viewer! Mr Gioia, you are totally totally correct! we have to de-hate The Baroque!!! The vanishing point in us gives birth to consciousness I also agree with transe! As a teenager in 1966 i thought some Beatles songs achieved this, especially a few by Harrison, and the later ones by Lennon (No 9, the coda of I want you) and the coda of Hey Jude) yes yes to your ideas tonight

Big thank you Rick …for this interview …please stay on course as we try to shake that tree …:) groundhog day is food analogy …we need to be the voice of the resistance ..music

Retired drummer / sound tech mode ON! Great interview! Always glad to hear or read new twists from anyone who has “been there and done that”. Learn from the the successes and the mistakes of others; life is too short to do everything from scratch. Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion. Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that the mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white “virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits). TWO big problems with vinyl: 1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.). The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices. 2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons.. In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros. It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading. As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK. There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence.. Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'mazing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master is played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwalls" at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics". Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change. That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue. . Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read. As the Doobie Brothers sing: “LISTEN to the MUSIC”,….. NOT the gear or the hype. Cheers from an old audio bloke!! Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido.

That open - closed system talk about Netflix made me remember the current Avid protools subscription based thing vs a daw like REAPER which I see gaining a steady popularity because of how open it is, contrary to PT.

Look at the reaction videos. There are thousands and thousands of young people discovering the old music we grew up with. It is a thing of beauty to see a young person listen to War Pigs for the first time, or Master of Puppets, and they’re blown away! They love it! Fact is, the bean counters ruined music. There is no incentive for young artists to write good music today, and therefore, new music sucks. I know there is good music being made today, but I can’t find it and they aren’t promoted at all. So buying music is ruined, radio is dead, and concerts have been ruined. Studios are expensive. There goes the music industry and you get what we have today, a barren landscape of older artists that are still going, and new artists that, well, are doing what the producers tell them to do. Bless all musicians and listeners that things change soon for the better.

So interesting when he talkes about a trance. I was watching a drum video yesterday where a guy was playing a Bonham groove and me as a drummer I knew what he was doing, understood it but he kept playing and I had the feeling I was in a trance and couldnt turn it off. Bonham was an innovator and his style grabs you. I get this, I want the same song to go on and on and I play it over and over. This is the best interview I have seen in 10 years.

It's refreshing to hear genuinely intelligent people talking intelligently about music!

There was a time when the only way you could hear music was when a musician or a group of musicians assembled themselves and played and performed actual live music. Now, in my life, I am continually accosted and bombarded by music that I'd rather not listen to. And, silence and the rare sounds of nature are what I long to hear.

Great interview! There's a lot that I agree with. Starting at the length of a piece of music. At either 8th grade or freshman, I would sit center of our family stereo, and listen to Gershwin's Concerto in F for piano and Orchestra. I loved it. Then of course there were the Beatles and Beach Boys. By the way,I'm 74! :) . When I was overseas, Abby Road came out, and I would listen to the whole album at once, preferred it that way. I have loved lots of songs longer than 3 minutes. And for Spotify, I use to create my own playlists, of which I have many under Windy Pitts, and believe they are open to the public. Variety of music from Classic Rock (my definition) to classical, musicals, country, folk. Etc. 😊

The best thing about new music is I don't have to listen to it. You have to be really good to get into my playlist. Still discovering good old music.

one of your best interviews ever, Rick! truly entertaining, informative and inspirational, thank you Rick and Ted!

When I was a teenager I checked out a Bach album out of the library. I was absolutely changed and the spell has never worn off. It could happen to anyone.

And that is why we needed Can doing 30 minute jams. Best argument yet for Prog.

And his model for trying to help musicians at the end of the interview was pretty good, where are all these people, who are musician friendly in the industry, that's a great way to start something great.

There’s nothing like holding an album in your hands. You and the artists become one.

If you'd gone on another hour, I would have been just as enthralled - what a great interview ✨

The progressive rock genre is enjoying a renaissance (no pun)! Long songs, many are independently produced. I have a project called "The Madrigal Project". Full on prog and long songs, no playing or tracking to the grid and blemishes left in in favor of the emotional value... I follow my heart when it comes to writing. I truly believe our audience is "intelligent and discerning" and though I expect to make little or no money, I CAN say it's REAL. In my mind, therefore, relevant. GREAT interview and Ted just made a fan! He is absolutely spot on.

The super vinyl concept is brilliant. Give me something I can hold in my hands, something with captivating artwork, something with liner notes, something that provides me with insight into how the music was created, what inspired it, how it was produced. LP Album covers were the perfect size to hold in your hands and to showcase the album art. CDs are a much more convenient form factor, and MP3 and FLAC files are vastly more portable, but I would argue that the packaging of the music in an LP-sized physical medium contributes in a significant way to the experience.

Loved this interview. Something similar is happening in the field of medicine as well (my field), that is similar to how tech companies are running the music genre of today. Private equities have been buying up medical practices across the nation. Basically businessman telling doctors how to practice medicine. I find an interesting parallel here.

Loved this discussion! Ted went to my high school (Hawthorne, CA - also home of the Beach Boys) and we both worked on the school newspaper together back in the 70's. I was actually his Editor-in-Chief for one year, and looking back I should have been taking orders from him! Ted is a fantastic writer and great intellect. Absolutely understands the convoluted history of recorded music and the problems with how we distribute, consume and monetize music in the digital age. Rick is always great, but the two of them together opened some doors to topics that are rarely discussed or even thought about. Music consumption and marketing has changed radically in the last two decades and not for the better. Bravo!

My mind was most expanded by Coltrane's " My Favorite Things " ... those long solos put me in a trance !

@102 - If you can turn you music into a physical product, its easier to sell - Been doing this for over 5years.

Ted Gioia is also an excellent musician. The Ted Gioia Trio's "The End of the Open Road" came out in 1988 when I was working at my college's jazz radio station. Thank you for this great interview.