StarTalk Podcast: The Hidden Science of Music with Eric Whitacre

Рет қаралды 213,224

3 жыл бұрын

There’s science in everything, even when you don’t realize it. On this episode of StarTalk Radio, Neil deGrasse Tyson sits down with Grammy-award winning composer Eric Whitacre to explore the hidden science of music. Joined by comic co-host Chuck Nice and neuroscientist Heather Berlin, PhD, we’re investigating how science and mathematics can influence and shape music.
To start, we discuss something a lot of people have dealt with: forced music lessons. Heather explains why learning music is like learning a language and how reading music can impact growth in other areas of the brain.
You’ll find out how Eric became a musician even though he was on a path to be a scientist. Eric also tells us why he thinks NASA is a “crazy collection of artists.”
Then, we welcome mathematician and concert pianist Eugenia Cheng to help us demystify math and music, and show us how they interact. And Neil poses the question: would all musicians be better if they had more knowledge in math?
Lastly, we explore the patterns of music, how important novelty is to the brain, and why rebelling against patterns lead to the development of classical music.
Thanks to our Patrons Julia Zeikowitz, Cory Ricci, Sridev Pawar, Mark Hachem, Michael Gessner, Roderic E Hairston, Chuck Betlach, and Riyam Al-Sammarraie for supporting us this week.
About the prints that flank Neil in this video:
"Black Swan” & "White Swan" limited edition serigraph prints by Coast Salish artist Jane Kwatleematt Marston. For more information about this artist and her work, visit Inuit Gallery of Vancouver inuit.com/.
Support us on Patreon: / startalkradio
FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to StarTalk:
KZfaq: kzfaq.info...
Twitter: / startalkradio
Facebook: / startalk
Instagram: / startalkradio
About StarTalk:
Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!
#StarTalk #NeildeGrasseTyson

Пікірлер: 515

@andypeiffer5 3 жыл бұрын

"Forgive the audio quality" *Quality is actually much better*

@E-__ 3 жыл бұрын

Was thinking the same thing.

@DoFoT9 3 жыл бұрын

I think this refers to the quality on the “live stream”, for Patreons/etc and not the KZfaq video that combines locally captured audio? Had a giggle at the comment though!

@G5349 3 жыл бұрын

Interview Brian May, Queen's guitarist and has a PhD in astrophysics!

@SoupedUpCustoms 3 жыл бұрын

seconded. this must happen.

@metalzonemt-2 3 жыл бұрын

Nah, he just wants to ride his bicycle.

@specialk8168 3 жыл бұрын

Hasn't he already done that?

@JML6988 3 жыл бұрын

It'd be epic!

@alexbyrd2231 3 жыл бұрын

look he's paid his dues...time after time...

@cardhutt 3 жыл бұрын

we need you in these trying times Neil. thank you

@_shadow_1 3 жыл бұрын

I'm here for chuck

@marcelputra299 3 жыл бұрын

@Jason Quinones definitely

@JML6988 3 жыл бұрын

Really?

@ercandemircan 3 жыл бұрын

@Deal Negrasse Bison the 6k5th 877

@charlemagneyeager2228 3 жыл бұрын

Being a huge fan of astrophysics/physics AND a music major, I can verify that this video IS AWESOME

@apeiceofgarbage9848 3 жыл бұрын

If you absolutely had to pick, gun to youre head important, what genre is your favorite, or like what instrument if thats easier

@kraka2oanIner 3 жыл бұрын

D I T T O :-)

@gregevans3542 Жыл бұрын

@@apeiceofgarbage9848 I’ll answer, cello lol.

@sandrataylor2323 3 жыл бұрын

My Father was born legally blind but could play any instrument he laid his hands on. I remember when I was 16 we were at someone's house and they had a piano. He sat down and picked out a few keys....then began playing like he had been playing a piano all of his life. He had never seen a piano before that. It's amazing what the human brain is capable of.

@classicaltrombone 3 жыл бұрын

10/10 crossover!

@dominickdarpino5584 3 жыл бұрын

As a tool fan, I’m obligated to make a fib sequence lol

@danisantana2944 3 жыл бұрын

Hah nice to see you here

@TheScottGillies 3 жыл бұрын

Each of the different notes and semi-tones are more than just frequencies. Given the context of how they are used, any two pitches can have the same or entirely different emotional effects on the listener. I think that is so awesome that it's practically real-life Magic! What matters most is the relation between pitches used in a song, not the specific frequencies themselves.

@AidenCassaroArt 3 жыл бұрын

We need The Hidden Science of Art/Painting.

@jeffmullins1286 3 жыл бұрын

Neil would fan girl out on this and im here for it

@sv24m66 3 жыл бұрын

there's a ted talk called "when science meets art" that you'd probably like

@stonystone5065 2 жыл бұрын

oh yesss

@zhubajie6940 3 жыл бұрын

Always love Dr. Cheng ever since her TED talk on the geometries of hierarchy named "How abstract mathematics can help us understand the world".

@JohnyG29 3 жыл бұрын

@Андрей Бахарковскй ?

@atozztoa9092 3 жыл бұрын

"Music without science is just noise & science without music is just fact"

@WHYNKO 3 жыл бұрын

Well, music is music and fact is fact... Music has imagination and creativity, facts are truths and don't depend on imagination 😉.

@HawkFest1 3 жыл бұрын

Science without music is like Math without symbols.

@christopdude 3 жыл бұрын

what about noise musics though?

@scottgrohs5940 3 жыл бұрын

I tend to relate music to physics. Physics is visual while music is auditory. Both rely on math.

@ex_zack_attack4395 3 жыл бұрын

I love how he keeps apologizing for the quality of the pre-recorded interview even though it sounds better than the video calls

@SteveN-uc4xh 3 жыл бұрын

I came to comment the same thing lol "just a microphone off the shelf" is probably better than most recording studios' lol

@HossSwayerpr 3 жыл бұрын

Exactly 😆

@dhpbear2 2 жыл бұрын

Chuck is WAY over-modulating, though :(

@kwanryan5914 3 жыл бұрын

Quarantine is the best thing that happened in my life so far. I've learned so so soooooooo so much

@maddow4life 2 жыл бұрын

Please do an entire episode with Eugenia! She was fantastic!

@kathy9300 3 жыл бұрын

When Eugenia Cheng started playing Rachmaninoff's "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini," it took me back Somewhere in Time, although I typically listen to John Barry's version. Love it!

@thecellhawk 3 жыл бұрын

When two best things in the world cross - science and music. Lovely.

@--ART3MIS-- 3 жыл бұрын

one of the best episodes so far, love it! oh, and Eugenia Cheng, that woman is an inspiration. watch her on youtube!

@aerocatmusic3020 Жыл бұрын

There's so much they could have covered. I'd love to see him revisit this topic with a more varied group of experts.

@jordanaethelric2614 3 жыл бұрын

Eugenia Cheng was absolutely fascinating to listen to! Would love to listen to more interviews featuring her!

@vickkara7641 Жыл бұрын

She seems wicked sharp and smart ! Fascinating!

@marylaczko6539 2 жыл бұрын

Both my children had lessons from age 3 . They played in musical ensembles the entire time they were growing up. BTW they are both of mensa IQ levels. They also did art and sports and religious activities. My son is working on his PHD in music theory and my daughter is a biologist/zoologist. No regrets.

@Anti-HyperLink 3 жыл бұрын

I was literally going to comment about the left brain/right brain thing and I'm so glad that Heather said it before me because now I know I'm not an idiot.

@number3729 3 жыл бұрын

Wow what a show! Great topic, guests and discussion as usual. My favourite podcast on KZfaq.

@msmith53 3 жыл бұрын

As a freshman in music school, I was in a test group as to how fast we could recognize music notes in a measured flash. We actually could identify and recognize from 1/40 to 1/60 of a second! Trained musicians can read multiple notes on a page. Conductors read a page of notes when conducting instrumental groups. As a conductor of a big band, all of the musicians could “read” a page of notes at a speed up to 220 beats a minute. I don’t know how that shakes out as to portions of a second, but part of the skill is enhanced by practice and experience, but it is an amazing skill level. Also, in California, we studied the success of music students further careers and found that many were highly capable professionals and attributed much of that to their music experiences. And many also attributed some of that to a mother that wouldn’t let them stop their piano lessons! My last 10 yrs spent as instrumental music teacher at a performing arts school and retired to direct a “kicks” big band for 20 yrs!...AND you just scratched the surface. Your piano person was very skilled, obviously! I also experienced a fellow who could sing one line vocally and whistle the harmony simultaneously. 20th century music needs lots and lots of listening to appreciate it. Like anything exposure helps. A great book, Physics and Art which attributes some of Einstein’s influences were music.

@Xavier_915 3 жыл бұрын

Can we all agree that we need more of Dr. H.Berlin on Star talk...👀 🔥😍

@rhov-anion 2 жыл бұрын

I've had the privilege to perform some of Eric Whitacre's music. In fact, his song "October" is a classical piece that we play at a Halloween event where most of the audience is children. The other songs are things they know, mostly Disney villain songs, Addams Family theme, or other "creepy" music, but that one is a classical song that the children all listen to in awe. There's something innate about it that draws them in.

@CatoBands Жыл бұрын

i was kicked out of my band and chorus class when i was young but they called me in privately to teach me how to play instruments i think i now realize why they did that.(it wasn't bc i was bad, if anyhting it was bc i couldnt learn in a classroom environment) and it made me better understand music bc i had to learn it on my own. i remember surprising my music teacher when i learned how to play 2 songs within the hour i was given to learn it. then he movedme to drums, then a trumpet then he stopped calling me in for no reason.

@mervinupton4789 3 жыл бұрын

Dr Neil you should invite Dr Manjul Bhargava for your show. He is a field medalist. He has great explanation of how music is associated with mathematics. I hope you remember him from the premier of the movie "A man who knew infinity".

@coder001 3 жыл бұрын

I loved the interaction of all the guests on this one, it was so enjoyable, my brain wants more!

@KuyVonBraun 3 жыл бұрын

Eugenia Cheng was a fantastic guest, just picked up a couple of her books on the back of this interview. Love from the U.K. 🇬🇧

@mchocolate2301 3 жыл бұрын

I love it when you have Heather on as a guest. As I find her to be is an extremely beautiful and intelligent woman. Oh yeah, You and Chuck are fun to watch too. Love Star Talk! 🔭👍🏾

@KirilF 3 жыл бұрын

she just... wow

@earlgrey2130 Жыл бұрын

Jup.. she is quite beautiful. And then you add her smarts.. man oh man. She was a lovely addition to the cast. Enjoyed listening to her.

@carytodd7211 2 жыл бұрын

One of the best episodes so far. Excellent.

@fc-qr1cy 3 жыл бұрын

what a great episode. MUSIC AND MATH what else is there to Love more in this Universe.

@RPIdemon 3 жыл бұрын

I've only discovered Cosmic Queries a few weeks ago and I've been binging them. I love the dynamic that Neil and Chuck have, and especially the recall and enthusiasm Chuck has. But man, it's hard to concentrate with how beautiful Heather is

@mmgibson1 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, bring Eugenia back! I sing in my church choir (or I did until this COVID thing hit, forcing us to stay away from each other). I was a science major in college and still tend to analyze everything. I find that it feels very freeing to stop fretting over technicalities such as correct notes, harmonies, chord progressions, and so forth, and just let some primal part of my brain enjoy the singing.

@funkopotamuswes 3 жыл бұрын

I definitely remembering discussing the Fibonacci sequence, the golden ratio, and musical climaxes in my AP music theory class last year.😂

@AMikeStein 3 жыл бұрын

I think Fibonacci and music and I immediately think of Lateralus by Tool.

@mgailp 3 жыл бұрын

We were even tought to use it as a general guide for intermission. Put @ 60% of the concert before intermission and the audience tends to be less restless toward the end of the concert.

@funkopotamuswes 3 жыл бұрын

@@mgailp Ooo I’ll keep that in mind for when I’m a band director planning concerts!

@SanchoBohemian007 2 жыл бұрын

I’m so glad I came across this video. Learned music in high school and always loved music. Played a few instruments. I love science but was very distraught by some teachers as I grew up and never looked to it. But anyway it’s great that science is everywhere.

@rickycouture7224 3 жыл бұрын

While never raised in a musical family, I was raised on music. It still amazes me how songs I haven't heard since I was probably 5 or 6 could play right now and I would be able to remember them word for word without any trouble. I used to hate most of it, since it was music my mom played as the un-elected DJ and Single Parent in Chief, but looking back now I actually have a great deal of appreciation for it. There's very little music post-1975 that didn't find its way into our home, making the inner recesses of my brain essentially some weird biological archive for about four decades-worth of music. While I can't exactly qualify the impact it had on my brain, I'm certain that it must've led to increased brain activity on some level, if for no other reason than the fact that I'm able to remember numbers better simply by converting them into some basic melody first. If that isn't proof that the brain and music are a natural pairing, I don't know what is. It's been a huge learning device for me personally!

@OkyeameKwameBRA 3 жыл бұрын

Thank You Guys , I now understand why the middle eight is so important. It is to break the repetitive pattern and introduce a new variation or pattern to wake up the listener. Thank u again .

@jc7636 3 жыл бұрын

That was a great discussion, inspiring and funny. Thanks.

@Scriabinfan593 3 жыл бұрын

This was probably my favorite startalk episode

@goblinslayerman2374 3 жыл бұрын

I could listen to these guys for hours

@HossSwayerpr 3 жыл бұрын

This is very interesting. Overtime I started becoming aware of different ways to learn something (reading, audio, visual for examples). But for a big chunk of my life, it never occured to me that there may be different ways to tell a story. The most common to me in conveying/receiving is thru books by reading or by listening to someone reading out loud.

@user-uk9er5vw4c 3 жыл бұрын

I love you guys, thanks for all the beautiful work

@kathleenmckenzie6261 Жыл бұрын

I sing in the sanctuary choir of our church and one of our members was a teacher at the local college. He overheard a colleague ask a question of the physics class. There was only silence, to which the instructor posed the same problem. Again, silence. Finally the instructor said to the class, "C'mon, guys, this isn't music theory!"

@Stuit3rb4l 3 жыл бұрын

It is always the ideal weather to enjoy a glimpse of Heather...

@farronhart5761 3 жыл бұрын

Great talk, Star Talk! As an artist/designer, this was very fascinating to me. We humans like to compartmentalize math separate from art, but I think what Eugenia Cheng said further solidifies what i have observed myself, which is that everything is connected. Math/science, art/design are all just different means of achieving the same ends. I would Luv to listen to a longer video with Eugenia Cheng as a guest speaking on the topic of math and music. Maybe even have a guest that can broaden the conversation into how math/science translate into visual art/design.

@wendylewis4591 3 жыл бұрын

LOVE THIS TOPIC!!! Awesome!!

@MeJackDaniels 3 жыл бұрын

Nice to see dr Heather Berlin back in star talk

@simmonsjoe 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Heather, now it's it my head for the day.

@jasper36 3 жыл бұрын

Thx, been hoping for this topic on Startalk.

@Good_Horsey 3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking this the other day, math is the life blood of music, as well as other art forms, but with music the two are so conjoined that even those who may not know how to so much as read a piece of sheet music, can certainly write a song and it's a mathematical process through and through.

@JayBassoon 3 жыл бұрын

When talking about symmetry, it would have been cool if Eugenia had brought up the Crab Canon (Bach wrote at least one) which can be played simultaneously by two people, one of whom starts at the end and plays it backwards. Also, it sounded like Eric said John "Corleone", but he was talking about John Corigliano who happens to have won an Oscar for his soundtrack to "The Red Violin."

@descongestionante_nasal 3 жыл бұрын

awesome video! greetings from brazil

@Dimefield 3 ай бұрын

About the languages and music connection.... I started playing guitar around age 11. My first language isn't English but for some reason I can speak it quite well now 30 years later without studying it more than what was taught in school.

@aster.gemyni 3 жыл бұрын

This is such an unexpected mashup, and I love it!

@ompatel4760 3 жыл бұрын

This is perfect timing I am taking star trail pohots right now

@steviebee77 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome episode!!!!

@julioperez1850 3 жыл бұрын

Great episode!!!

@projecttomorrow227 Жыл бұрын

33:30 great correlations of music and math. great guest . invite back. like her examples. more examples please.

@birdeyeview100 3 жыл бұрын

Always enjoy when Heather Berlin is on. (Also, she always has the most fabulous hair)

@deadsetanime7102 3 жыл бұрын

excellent show!

@projecttomorrow227 Жыл бұрын

32:00 did studies in Math and Sciences, and am a musician and artist . i always felt that music/art/science compliment each other .

@frankmckenzie7502 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you guys.

@SteveN-uc4xh 3 жыл бұрын

I played trumpet from 3rd-8th grade. It was fantastic. I stopped because photography took over. Now Music is back, I started a company to help schools keep their music programs for all the reasons they talk about 😁

@williamoverton7775 3 жыл бұрын

I like that stuff about training the left hand

@Jay-om8gr 3 жыл бұрын

Amazing episode

@sootynukkels8366 3 жыл бұрын

Oooh, top 20 commenter. Go me. But go you Neil and Chuck even more. Love you both!

@bballjulien 3 жыл бұрын

I used to think I was bad at math because I had a bad 3rd grade teacher, but once I adopted the attitude that it was just another skill that I could master through practice it came to me much easier and getting As was nowhere near as difficult as it used to be.

@B1u35ky 3 жыл бұрын

Yay for Thursday

@cathjerabkova 3 жыл бұрын

Neil makes me feel kind of safe in these times.. It is a weird thing to say but does anyone feel the same about him? He is just so wise and smart it really makes me very comfortable to hear him speak on different themes.

@valshalrok6153 2 жыл бұрын

yes, its like listening to grandpas stories

@loren-emmerich 3 жыл бұрын

This is about me; A Loren Emmerich production! Wonderful podcast!

@patrickcompton1483 3 жыл бұрын

Music activates the language centers of the brain, music literally speaks to us, in fact transcending spoken word.

@hidayayusuf1029 3 жыл бұрын

Drum language in west Africa google that you will be amazed even somewhere in the mountains in Turkey It’s mind blowing I tell you

@_JONGFIRE 3 жыл бұрын

This channel is great😊

@lucyspearl 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the content, Neil.

@sparrowthesissy2186 3 жыл бұрын

Math being so fundamental to music is why it was so easy to digitize. You can "record" a performance through MIDI, which keeps track of note on and off times, as well as pitch. You can program music generators with code, and make algorithms which use random numbers or AI to generate those pitches and note lengths, and use sine waves or other functions to oscillate the values for volume or filters or other effects. Since even raw audio files are recorded as a bunch of sine waves, those too are now being generated by neural nets, both for instruments and vocal sounds. We're really around the point of machines passing a kind of musical Turing test, where it's increasingly difficult to tell for sure if a piece of music was made by a human or some kind of AI. I'm sure that for music, like the game of chess, as soon as machines can do it better than us we'll pretend we never thought it was a skill that demonstrated superior intelligence.

@CoachRiRiPFWG 3 жыл бұрын

I totally get how that passion gets snuffed out. as a child it came time to pick instruments for school i wanted drums the music teacher agreed I had an aptitude. My dad said he didn't want to hear the noise. My mom had read that they studied instruments and found people who played violin did better in math and science bc of the different hand movements and left brain/right brain coordination. I felt pressured so I picked the violin hated it, never tried. Today I'm a massage therapist not really using calculus and still find the beats coming to me and i catch myself slapping out rhythms. Or using a drum for meditation.

@mr88cet 3 жыл бұрын

The greatest music is an onion! Music with layers upon layers of interest: On the outside layer, we enjoy it because it has intriguing, pleasant, and/or memorable melodies, and compelling harmonic movements. But the more layers you peel off the musical onion, you look at it in greater detail, and you start seeing melodic development based upon clever patterns and symmetries. My Music Theory instructor kept bringing up Chopin as examples of this: At the top level, most of Chopin’s is just beautifully melodious and moving, but the more you peel off the layers, the more and more you realize that it also *just plain makes sense* too! “Everything in it has a reason,” he would point out. Bach is also often cited as examples of that, not surprisingly.

@anitae 3 жыл бұрын

I love music. There is always music in my mind. i can see music in my brain, in waves. I can play by ear too. I loved taking the piano when I was young and I wanted to continue, but i couldnt. And I have taught myself without notes how to play certain songs.

@anitae 3 жыл бұрын

And I love math and numbers.

@ekisauruslux6795 2 жыл бұрын

Being a human with brains i can verify that this video IS AWESOME

@gfrogy 3 жыл бұрын

love this

@dantopash8267 3 жыл бұрын

Ya know what would be awesome is having these episodes on a streaming device such as Netflix and instead of just watching people chat on a screen the whole time, they could add some graphics and visuals as they’re explaining everything.

@schoolcraft420 3 жыл бұрын

22:34 I've been listening to Dr. Tyson since at least 2010 when I heard him on the radio. I would love it if someone could put on a graph how many times Dr. Tyson said 'aliens' and in what context.

@danpiehler7160 3 жыл бұрын

Music is a huge part of what separates humanity from animals. No wild animal on the planet can compose sound like the human can. We gather round and listen to music, dancing and singing together like a wave of life fluctuating in time. Manipulating sounds to get an outcome but on a level of harmony within vibrations. A musician can use their instrument to play certain notes in a certain time to get certain reaction, this is known as music. The frequency and tone of the note has a real and lasting effect on humans.

@darkjead 3 жыл бұрын

Today the theme of this video was stucked in my head and here it is... feels like i summoned it xD

@gabrielh.4583 3 жыл бұрын

Very nice episode, loved it! I wondered if they could figure it out the math equations behind the music of MESHUGGAH! Maybe they could find hidden the answers to the dark matter/energy problems...MESHUGGAH IS dark and heavy stuff indeed..😎🤘

@FeelinGoodwithDuddy 3 жыл бұрын

Great stuff

@mannyfly84 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome you guys

@twofaces4410 3 жыл бұрын

Hans Zimmer is like Albert Einstein in the world of music.

@AMikeStein 3 жыл бұрын

I love Hans Zimmer. He’s up there with Phillip Glass and Howard Shore.

@sentient314 3 жыл бұрын

You never heard of Beethoven?

@jorgea.garzav4650 2 жыл бұрын

Just the title made my day.

@angelainamarie9656 3 жыл бұрын

I self-taught for a few years, then was formally taught. I think if I'd been rote-taught music i would have tuned out a lot sooner, I enjoyed my personal explorations. i vividly remember de-coding the major scale for the first time and realizing what it actually meant. I don't make money at music but I do at programming computers.

@tktabogo8885 3 жыл бұрын

Chuck is really smart

@TheMerriell 3 жыл бұрын

That was fantastic

@petersage5157 Жыл бұрын

Something interesting happens about two thirds of the way through any pop song because the songwriter wants to keep the listener interested. They're heard the verse and chorus twice; take it to the bridge. I sincerely doubt the songwriters who came up with this formula were thinking about Fibonacci or the Golden Ratio; they just wanted to sell more records. This kind of pattern is also common in baroque music, where the minstrels' motivation may have been to not be a target for spoiled food.

@jisnotavailable 3 жыл бұрын

I love that NDT has addressed maths in music

@steby123 3 жыл бұрын

Many studies have found that musical lessons alongside of academic studies tends to improve SAT scores to around 30 pt.s higher on the math and up to 60 pts. in the verbal scores; NEA and Fender musical Instrument Co. to name just a few.

@msmith53 3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely!! The hidden success story of MUSIC STUDY!

@ManicYouniverse 3 жыл бұрын

Chopin simply had to come up! ;) Greetings from Poland :)

@crusader7eth163 3 жыл бұрын

I love this so much I think this guy need to watch “morgue” and his views on the universe because I think he is totally correct

@Matt0 3 жыл бұрын

Chuck! Nice backdrop!

@clayfoster8234 3 жыл бұрын

In architecture and furniture design the golden ratio is an excellent starting place for proportioning your design. From there you can subdivide the elements of said piece by Fibonaccian ratios. For example a 3x5 index card is a golden ratio and Fibonacci ratio and it just looks right...

@edbruder9975 Жыл бұрын

I loved it when Chuck said "I don't wanna hear any more Eric Whitacre!"

@wildbill5680 3 жыл бұрын

I paused this to add the great Charlie Parker would often use the same math so to speak when he wrote his songs. His improves and runs FIT exactly into the patterns your guest is speaking about..