"Do you think $3,000+ Profit per Bike is to much?" Fewer units sold = higher price per unit. They're doing what they have to to keep the doors open and make a profit. I'm not defending high prices or surcharges (which unfortunately are used industry wide) but what other choices do they really have? The auto industry is dealing with the same issues- price a pickup lately? Auto sales still haven't recovered to pre-pandemic levels.Less expensive lower profit vehicles are largely gone or are pushed upmarket to a more profitable price point- which is why I think there's no standard FLHR Road King in 2023. My guess is that it cost a lot to produce (all the chrome, footboards, passing lamps etc., etc.) especially at its price point and that it will reappear in a revised form at a significantly higher price. Clueless politicians, most of whom couldn't organize a two car funeral procession, are the real culprits and cause of the crazy inflation we all deal with. And that's not the half of it when in a number of states that same clueless bunch are trying to ban the sale of internal combustion engines. This won't end well.

I Googled "Which motorcycle sell the most" long before this video came out and it said that Harley-Davidson sells 60% of motorcycle sold. However I personally think that Harley could do better than with the models they're putting out.

@@rmendoza5953 Honda sells way more bikes than Harley. nr 1 Worldwide

@@ekimandersom4478 Over 1000 cc Harley sells more. Foreign motorcycle manufactures are imitating Harley, Harley is not imitating them.

@@rmendoza5953 The Harley Pan America is a GS imitation

You are so right!!!! I used to sell HD in CA. AND did so fair and square as much as I could. Take this for what it is worth. I enjoyed the people I met, but was saddened by how we were expected to treat them: We regulary saw trade in bikes; less than 5 years old, with less than 10K miles! As you said; often decked out with many aftermarket accessories! Buy low mileage bikes privately if possible. Harley makes a fortune on used bikes and those who really want to buy one. You are a fly in the web of a predator that will show zero mercy. New bike buyers are however put; "on the path" to milk 'em dry! Sales, Service, then Accessories. The goal of the dealerships was to screw the customers, when in F&I. Selling the dream whilst adding; extended warranties, helmets, boots, jackets, shirts, sunglasses and don't forget the loud muffler system at a grand a pop! PLUS whatever else they could peddle. This is their end game. Those "free" Cokes, coffee, and fair weather friends; are anything but! ALWAYS seek financing approved from a Credit Union, (or bank if you feel you must), if you want to leave the dealership with any money left to your name. ALWAYS demand what Beacon Score they are using and what the number is. (A friend would tell you this info willingly). ALWAYS demand the interest rate. ALWAYS have a friend with you that reads and understands contracts and has no interest is buying the Harley. ALWAYS go home to, "sleep on it". (This will cause havoc and bring out their big gun closers!) Remember, "Finance" is their God! Take off the rose colored glasses and understand what is really going on! The bike will still be there the next day; if not, they will get one quicker than their initial smile and handshake appeared. They really are not your friends. If you could be a fly-on-the-wall after ringing the bell, having a photo taken, standing next your new bike and leaving the dealer with it, should you hear the comments that are thown around as soon as you do leave, you would want to return with a firearm. But; It seems that to many folk, owning a Harley Davidson, so as to tell others they own one, is more desirable than riding one and they will fund the feeling it gives them, at any cost.....

Same here. Test rode several Harley's, looked at the price. Ended up with a BMW AND a Yamaha, both amazing bikes.

Still looks like shit

Exactly. It will be my next one. Ive had 3 and they are better bikes. The 20 year old models have features on them new Harley's haven't even thought of yet.

Loved my Hondas. I sold my vtx and bought a Harley and frankly I think the Honda is not only more reliable and rides better but more affordable. I will say Harley is better built. Everywhere you look and touch on a hog is chrome and real steel not chrome wrapped plastic.

@@JS-nf1sn There boring

Sadly most power sports dealers do that shit. Was a salesman at both car and motorcycle dealerships. The ADM, added dealer fees, are insane in some stores.

When are u dummies going to realize ALL BRANDS DO THIS?

That's exactly what Laidlaw's does from what I understand. Baldwin, CA. Check them out.

@@dontworrybehappy8080 I watch his videos, he was actually instrumental in the bike I chose. I already knew what issues I would have. He stated how bad the stock 2020 Street Bob seat was, and needed to be replaced immediately, since you slide right off the back. He seems honest about what he sells. 3rd generation Harley dealer, he is really into what he does.

Bikes don't get shipped 2000miles for free dum dums

And AMF won't be there to bail em out this time LOL

@@nlb2000 i've got a AMF BIKE and there's not enough money to buy it,i've got the one with the revised JAGUAR REAR BRAKE everyone was bitching about,and it stops like hitting a wall,SHOVELHEADS FOREVER

I have a 2017 FLTRU Road Glide Ultra, 2020 Road Glide Special and a 2006 1200 custom and a 2022 Iron and the local dealer keeps dangling the🥕 saying “We need your trades!” So they can insult me by de-valuing my bike and shoving their crap right up your butt thinking you’ll be better off with a new bike? I will never buy another new Harley-Davidson Motorcycle again. My 2017 Roadie will smoke they’re vaunted 117 motors! I have a 107 motor with 107 HP. Why would I want to slow down? Why would I bother to trade up? When in all actuality I’d be taking a hit financially! If the MOCO stops making bikes tomorrow their bar and shield logo would still keep them in plenty of money for decades. I’m waving goodbye to my local dealership and the company as a whole. I still have 4 Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I’m all set!

They keep trying to get me to trade my 2019 in. I keep telling them that I’m good.

Of course they are.... They are in the business of selling new bikes...

Yeah anything I’m looking at the used bikes and that means not necessarily Harley Davidson. Would I like a new Harley Davidson yes but not in todays market, that makes no sense not to mention all the upgrades you would have to do to a fairly new bike just to bring it up to todays competition standards. Money wise Harley Davidson is in trouble the deeper we get into this recession, that slight blip on will turn into shelf down by next month this time.

LMAO no one is begging you for your 5 yr old bike 😂

@@GhettoGatesss I know that. What they want is another person making that high monthly payment. That's what I won't trade my bike for.

Buying new is the dumbest thing one can do, that goes for cars also.

@ Mike Thomas , so did they hit you up or try to on all the added fees like freight that should only be on new ,set up prep fees,market adjustment fees , over inflated warranties? Just curious and considering same , done with New !

@@jaimebedolla989 I think the only fee added was for getting the bike ready. I'm not sure what they called it but it was 500 bucks and they said it was a standard fee to all used bikes to cover stuff like new tires, oil change, ect...

Having worked briefly for a dealer I can confirm they're easily the biggest thing stifling sales. HD jacking up prices and adding surcharges on new units is one thing, but dealers refusing to give straight up prices, adding artificial markup, adding in mandatory dealer warranties/service plans, and jerking customers around and trying to squeeze every last dime out of them as opposed to simply moving metal and keeping people happy makes the buying (and selling) experience miserable. That's not even getting into harassing people constantly about buying and trading. Every single time I've done so much as inquire about a price on a bike I've had to go through the annoyance of telling a salesman, aggressively, to F off and stop calling/texting/emailing me multiple times a day. Is it fun to visit a dealer on an event day? Sure. Buying a Harley has become more stressful than buying a car, and people only deal with buying cars because 95% of people don't have a choice, they need one. Nobody NEEDS a Harley.

That’s a shady dealer

The price isn't hanging on the handlebar?

@White Devil only on the used bikes nothing new from this year or last year hold overs.

@Cobra chicken that's crazy. My dealer has the prices hanging on the handlebars. I wouldn't waste my time if they tried that crap with me.

Plenty of used HD's at Indian dealers, should have a nice selection of second hand trash. 😂

Lol nah. They will always be around and people will always buy em. You all need to stopp kidding yourselves 😅

@@fvgc454ss The ones who are kidding themselves are the ones who think everyone would really rather have a Harley.

@@georgekrpan3181 spoken like a true hater 😅

That’s apparently what the CEO’s future directions strategy is, for real. So, bye bye HD, hi Indian and Triumph ! :-)

@@adods9824 news flash dum dums. The lowrider S is less than an Indian sport chief which only has a 2 valve motor, the Pan America is less than a GS1250 and the Sportster S with the 1250 rev max is less than an Indian Ftr1200 🤣🤣. So you dummies can complain about price the. Go out and buy the even bigger rip offs for more the money.

What does that have to do with safety? A halogen turn signal is bright enough.

Agree I'll keep my 06 King. 70k miles and still purrs down the road just fine. I'll keep her till I'm done riding life.

You can't go where my GS 1200 goes and before you jump on my comment, I loved Harley my entire life.

@Robert McGuckin you obviously haven't watched Million dollar Brogan! Haha 😄

@@davidchereneimmel8820I like Brogan, I've seen every episode. His platinum American Express gets him out of jams not his RoadKing.

@Robert McGuckin I'm not talking about where his money comes from. He beats the snot out of that HD King (road bike) and it takes it. That's what I was talking about.

I agree, and then I remember Harley Corporate made the dealers build those big monstrosity of buildings with mucho more overhead costs. Hell, here in Oklahoma they tried putting restaurants in to help with overhead. Maybe they would do better with stripper poles!

Should be no markups

@@MarkR973 You hit the proverbial nail on the head!

Funny thing is there was a time when one could get a car or bike for 10% under MSRP not over. Still can with things like firearms. But that is because gun makers sell to the FFL at a price the FFL can add on a profit and still be under MSRP.

@@mikehenthorn1778 their greedy.. in my view.. when they take your trade they give you alot less.. probably better off buying used due to the bad experience and significant overhead they have to pay for

That's why I have a 2013 FLTRU. At $10k + trade it wasn't a bad deal.

I have been riding just over 20 years. In all those years, I have purchased many new and used bikes, though mostly new. My very first new motorcycle was a 2004 Harley Dyna Low Rider that I learned to ride on. After 4 years, I came to hate it. I had about $23k into it when I sold it and couldnt wait to get rid of it. Looking back, I figured it was my first bike and I was allowed a costly mistake. I have purchased 2 more Harleys since then - both used. One of the Harleys was a 2016 Ultra Classic that had 5 miles on it for $18k. I sold it after 9 months because it was a total PoS. My current Harley is a 2019 Fat Boy 114 that I do like, am keeping and bought used. I also have a 2018 VMax I bought new. The HD dealer asked if I was going to trade it in on a new Harley and I laughed in his face.

@@glickmpb I'm glad you've had good enough jobs to be able to afford all those bikes. I still have my first Harley 1984 FXRT. I loved it till I had an accident. I rebuilt it but it just has never been the same. In 2007/8 I bought a 1986 FLTC for around $5500. It had very low miles and I put 70k on it before having an over heat issue on an EVO engine. It also needed a carb but I traded for the 2013 road guide I have now. The last two are my Sturgis annual pilgrimage bikes. I live in Alaska.

@@neildewitt2869 Im a systems engineer and make good money. However, the point is that Harley has lots of issues and thats why I only buy those bikes used.

@@glickmpb That doesn't make sense. I believe the most expensive Dyna in 2004 was the Wide Glide at 15k. You are saying you put another 23000 dollars into a bike you hated? That would make your investment in that bike 37 thousand dollars! Thats the price of a 2023 CVO.

Yup. Not to mention they aren't innovating/changing enough to justify the cost of new at this new "premium" they want, not with the availability of used units out there.

Yeah we are on same page about getting a new bike this year… I think there is probably a lot of room for cost cutting

Luckily I have a MSRP dealer locally. Its a problem and now that inventory is improving hopefully we will see that dealer markup come back in line...

Yep, a guy on one of the FB groups I'm part of was asking if the prices were as bad everywhere as they were in the Orlando dealership... He was looking at a 2023 RG Special and they told him it was going to be $40k + tax,title,doc and any extras he wanted. I put him in touch with my sales guy I bought from last month, he quoted the exact same bike to him for $34k out the door. I don't know if he made the trip up from FL to IL, but he'd have saved enough to buy a trailer to take the new bike back home, lol.

Indian and Harley are both expensive, but for me, i will buy a Harley before an Indian, been there and done that when Polaris reincarnated the dead brand. dealer service is crap at Indian which is why i said screw it and sold my Indian and Victory and went back to Harley Most Indian dealerships are mom and pop shops and they stock minimal products, every thing you want yo have to order and it will come in a couple weeks if you are lucky, i will stick to my Harley's

So true. Seems like Indian could use this to their advantage and undercut Harley on something aggressive, smaller displacement, and AFFORDABLE, but they seem to be playing “follow the leader” with HD instead?

Agreed. Indian should be fighting for the market share under Harley but instead it’s a race to the top of the price range.

@@snakebite6511 mom and pop > megalow mart

@@snakebite6511 I hear ya.

$95 for a long sleeve plaid shirt. $55 for a long sleeve T. Crazy

Just a thought for consideration...$22,000 in 2016 is equivalent on an inflation adjusted basis to $27,600 for a bike in 2023 with better performance and tech. Have they really gone up that much?

​@@motormichael5831yes because wages have gone down in that time making them relatively much more expensive. The cheapest HD in the UK is nearly 100% of the average take home salary and a toy is never a priority for someone who needs food, shelter, clothing etc

The dilemma you have as an owner and the problem that the company now has; is that if you initially choose wisely with your purchase, why would you ever want to buy another, certainly not an Anniversary Fat Boy at a £5,200.00 premium here in the UK

@@gregrose6915 Buy a Pendleton wool shirt, instead of cotton flannel, for that kind of money.

I would assume the surcharge is figured into the per unit calculation, at this point it is just another fee so it might as well be added in to the MSRP, I don't see it going away....

Oh it is part of the profit, the point being that if they are averaging $3500 per bike then that means over twenty percent of the profit is because of the surcharge which leads to the next point, without it they would not show sufficient improvement to warrant their stock price

Yep, Harley only wants to paint bikes black, you want a color, how dare you so pay more!

@@billsinclair313 Yeah as Plebian as buying an old Model T Ford from 1908. Dumbest color out there when most people can't ride all winter long, and black is hot as f*ck in the summer time, when the days are long enough to go to Sturgis or have vacation time to do a summer ride somewhere while touring on a bike. Absolute worst choice.

Right now, it’s hard for me to think about an Indian being anything but a reproduction knock off of the old Indian. They are a Polaris. Polaris just bought the rights to the Indian brand and reproduced them. Let’s remember, Indians are very expensive too. I’m surprised woke culture has let them keep that name.

@@jroberts1962 They've already had to ditch the war bonnet... I'm sure its just a matter of time before the indian head logo and name get changed.

I think BMW has a better chance of gaining ground then anyone else in the US marketshare, go ride an R18!

It only took Harley Davidson 120 Years to build the Company and Dealership Network we have today. Shouldn’t take Indian and Buell long to get there.

@@aucklandsadventures don’t forget BMW…

stay tuned next week, I hear things...

I agree with you on all points. Here in Europe, the only people who can pay for these bikes are those who could buy an E-class Mercedes Benz with all the extras. Otherwise the only folks you see riding Harleys are those who have had their Sportster for a long time and actually do most of their maintenance jobs. HD is making the brand as desirable as ever because they are great at marketing. However, as a dude in his 30s I am not as impressionable anymore. I want to enjoy the ride first, and looking like a rock and roller comes in at second place. That is why Royal Enfield is appealing to me for its straightforwardness and reliability.

@@adriamillasluque I really think Harley could make gains in the global market with the Revolution Max power plant. I’m by no means an expert on all the regulations that you guys have but Harley should be able to navigate those no problem. I wish they would have partnered with an Indian company instead of the Chinese to build a small displacement bike. My daughter has a Husqvarna Svartpilen 401 built by Bajaj and like your Royal Enfield the quality is top notch.

@@sarider6294 Same thoughts here. I hope you enjoy going on motorcycle ride with your daughter and you both have lots of fun!

That would be : - Covid economic bounce back. - Saved up Covid travel overseas money. Not spent. - Covid superannuation withdrawal. Allowed in Australia. - Covid survival reward purchase. I survived, life is short, buy a toy! - Covid business profits. - Covid tax returns / write offs. More tax $ floating around. My take on it. Not sustainable profit making IMHO.

Thanks! I wish I had the perfect solution but then I would probably be a CEO somewhere and not doing what I do

It's a bit like a bank. Don't put your money in the bank, buy shares in it.

Nothing wrong with a Evo!

Thats what my wide says about her 2009 Tri Glide

Or buy a Indian challenger and make those numbers already. A SGS and rocket 3 are apples to oranges in every category.

@@jasonp1177 agreed, but I'd prefer the Rocket 3. The Indian still doesn't make the same numbers that the Rocket 3 does. The new Challenger has 122hp.

If I were to buy today, it would be a Rocket3. Harley is designed to be a starter bike, to the point you are adding thousands in accessories and upgrades in addition to the high starting price. The initial purchase is only the beginning. Harley is average at best, and the sound and feel are held way above performance and handling and engineering. I don't give a crap about buying what the other sheeple feel they have to buy; I'd go for the 150/150 rear wheel numbers of the R3; and I think they sound way meaner than any big twin.

@Blair Taylor 100% agree. My Harley looks and sounds amazing, but the Rocket 3 looks great and has just as amazing performance that Harley just can't touch.

Spot on !

I know in this economy I am....

@@RidingintheOzarks mike I bought my 2019 CVO S/G used with 2700 miles on it , it was sold new 8 months prior and I paid $31,000 for it , I feel like i got a great deal compared to prices now there’s definitely not a new bike in my future

The only thing the new lineup and prices are inspiring me to do is NOT walk into a Harley dealership. I used to love to browse on new bikes each year and see the new lineups in person but not anymore. This new Harley-Davidson culture does nothing for me. I'll either keep the Harley I've got or move on to another brand.

I think the economy is catching up and demand is going to dip, I want them to survive but I am afraid they are going to be for upper class incomes only soon if things don't change... This may lead to a resurgance of used bike builds if aftermarket can keep up...

Shift? Without profits you have no business. All Business’s life blood is is about making profit. Even what you say is “affordable units”. These have to be profitable. Affordability to you or someone else, still has to be profitable for a business, or it It goes by-by.

@@roadglide facts

Yeah HDFS is not friendly when it comes rates, but they will approve you…

FYI Those commercials/ads are placed by google and could be a different ad for every viewer. Creators have no control over what ads are placed on the videos. That said I know what your talking about LOL

They have already lost so many old dealers like Rocky Mountain (family owned 43 years in biz) and Daytona Harley (sold to investment group) and three dealerships in Texas sold to a large automobile group, Harley wants corporate ownership of many dealers, less companies to deal with and we all know how we love to deal with and purchase Automobiles, yech!

Especially in an economy where your average Joe (which was supposed to be your bread and butter customer) has less and less disposable income.

I remember Harley advertising a brand new Sporty for $5995. My 2003 1200c was 10k. They're effectively pushing the bikes out of reach for the "average" consumer.

Thank you kindly!

Glad it was helpful!

Twice the Bike and half the cost is subjective, I don't know about you but I couldn't do 600-700 mile days on your bike. I bought a bike for riding 200-400 miles days on average and 500-700 miles when needed.

@@RidingintheOzarks I bought a 2014 VW Touareg TDI turbo diesel for that. Loaded, 60k Sport SUV similar to a Porsche Cayenne, 3 years old 40k miles on it, for $26k. It was 55K new in 2014. No way I'm ever even thinking of riding my Sport Glide those kind of miles. I'll drive my TDI to Sturgis, and rent from Eagle Riders for a couple of days, instead, around the Black Hills.

Income is after expenses.

And when you walked out, another customer walked in behind you - and willingly bought one for 10K over MSRP. If you were that HD dealer, would you have sold it to you for 5k over, when you knew you could sell them for 10K over - all day long. Of course not. You sell em for the maximum you can get for them! Thats good business.

I agree and I don't think pricing has changed much related to COL or inflation like some of the other needs like gas and eggs. I want people to see that and they are just now getting back to 2014 levels of profit per unit. I hope demand holds in this economy for them.

@@RidingintheOzarks great video!

@@KyleJohnson86er thanks!