Hi Rob, Thanks for taking the time to put together such a well thought out response to my video. I really enjoyed watching it. I still disagree with you, but maybe one day we can continue the discussion with a beer in hand...

Respect isn't why people don't know/practice HEMA, it's because it's a growing sport going through growing pains (high equipment costs, limited space, limited instructors, etc.). As HEMA matures as a sport these issues will resolve themselves and more people will know about and practice HEMA. Also, on the topic of not following styles, look at the progression of MMA as a sport. It started with a bunch of distinct styles but eventually an amalgamation made of the most effective techniques of all of those styles came into being and pushed out more distinct but less effective styles. The same will happen with HEMA and that will be the point where western swordsmanship will again be a living legacy.

Do more response videos like this, its great to have the opinion of a pro. I think its great HEMA is growing even Koreans are doing it, I remember a video from Weaponism (which does Kendo) called "Insane KENJUTSU skills by HEMA players!" I find it funny & cool how HEMA is basically becoming the Melee weapon MMA of the weapon martial arts scene. I genuinely think they are the most capable of creating extremely practical weapon martial art styles. This is just the start. I don't see the biased "traditionalist" rigidity people sometimes complain about. Of course though it is true we HEMAists can't wrestle good (and we could benefit from learning due to dagger fighting which is so close ranged that it involves wrestling). But thats why I'm going to enlist in a Judo school so I can steal techniques from them then figure out how to apply them to Dagger HEMA.

I've always believed that, if you were a soldier living in the age that these skills were what kept you alive, not just sparing in a school, you would learn anything and everything you could to ensure you keep breathing on the battlefield. I have serious doubts that anyone with a heavy dose of common sense would say "I can't use that move on the battle field! It's not 'my' style!"

Nicely spoken, one hard fact, every single person have different physcial condition, and we lived in a different age than our masters. Real situations are always live and we should always find for improvement.

The title makes me see Russel Crowe shouting. "Are you not entertained?" Lol.

Copying here what I already commented on HEMA in Pyjamas Thank you for this video. I must admit I got annoyed when I saw that "why no one respects hema" video. I want to add my 2 cents on top of what you said, regarding a phenomenon I've noticed in our community. This "no one respects hema" video stems from a very strange, unexplainable yet omnipresent sentiment within the hema community: self-doubting to the point of self-loathing. For some mysterious reason, the hema community in general likes to undermine its own achievements, to be overly humble when it's not called for, and to compare itself almost always negatively to other practices. In a sense, it's a bit similar to the "historical" youtube channels that try to debunk myths by creating new, equally wrong myths. It's often made in jokes, such as "we're not fit", "we have shitty footwork" and so on, but it's basically ingrained in the mind of many people at this point. So this leads to the impression that no one from the outside respects hema, which isn't true, just show a quality sparring video to any martial artist from any other practice, and they'll be impressed. This idea of the hemaist being an unfit/fat nerd who never played any sport and tries his best but achieves nothing is omnipresent within the hema community itself, and that's what could potentially stop hema from being recognized as valid from the outside (although like you I don't really think it's the case). The issue is that hema, for the most part, doesn't respect itself. Not any of the points from the "no one respects hema" video.

Agree with you on all points. One thing historical "purists" can sometimes overlook is that history is living and constantly evolving. Capoferro et al codified a fraction of what they each accumulated and knew at particular points in time that has been passed on to us. In the same way the works of present day masters will be passed on to future generations. The art is old, yes, but it is _alive_.

Greetings from Russia, Rob! Good words, smart and wisdom. Totally agree with you. With great respect from me, Sergei Kultaev (HEMA Team Russia). We met in Minsk in 2019.

Especially in Lichtenauer longsword, it's not a complete system. It's an overlay over "common fencing" and there's prior assumed knowledge of things like footwork. I have an excellent instructor who teaches Bolognese / Classical fencing and emphasizes that style of footwork and when I incorporated it into longsword beyond "move forward backward, and pass when you attack" I got a heck of a lot better. "Frog DNA" makes better fencers and fencing for straight fidelity to a master is limiting. Even in their day, it's said that these masters went around and learned from everywhere.

It’s a title designed for clicks But, I agree with what Oz has to say. I’ve been fencing since 1995, and have tried to learn from as many sources as possible. I think boxing in particular helped my fencing a great deal. In the end i think every stand up fighting style comes down to Balance, Distance, and Timing. Those are difficult things to learn from a text. And best learned from an experienced instructor. HEMA is still pretty young, and the experienced teachers available to teach it are few and far between.

As an "Olympic" fencer of many years, who fenced to quite a high standard (with my international squad), I do not think the contention that "no one respects HEMA", is born out of knowledge or understanding. I respect HEMA a great deal and it is obvious that it is far closer to a practical martial art than "Olympic" fencing. If there were a HEMA club anywhere near me, I would be there.

I watch a video of a master kendo fighter and teacher in Japan watching top HEMA fighters. He was impressed and admired the skill and ability of the HEMA fighters. There is a video of the same master handling a long sword and a rapier He very much liked the pommel and the cross on the sword. He said the rapier was scary because he could not see the tip. He was very impressed.

yea I watched his video and it was weird af like how is it even related? Also people who dont respect hema are those who never got beaten with a stick to the point of having bruises while not being able to land any significant hit. No matter what we're talking here, HEMA, SCA, HMB. The moment you beat them up their eyes start glowing

There is at least one manual where the author openly states that he learned both from capo ferro and fabris and mixed their styles. And montelesi says stuff like just stay how you want as long as you have no disadvantage and do not fall and hold the sword so that you are at your strongest. Imo what should be changed are some rulsets where its too easy to score points and then play for time or risk double hits when having more points so people would really try to improve their approach or finding of the blade offline movements etc. Where maybe no respect could come from is the standards of the clubs and what they aim at varies so much in different aspects.

For an outsider to the community the academic and the martial artist may seem segregated. There is plenty of martial artist who never touch a historical source , just like plenty of academics who never go for the practical application of whatever sources they are studying....and this is true not just for HEMA but for almost anything martial arts related. But we are seeing similar HEMA analogs in the form and study of Historical Asian Martial Arts and Historical African Martial Arts. At the end at least in HEMA we are observing the martial artist gravitating towards the historical and academic elements and vice versa in the best of cases. After all HEMA is in nature a Multidisciplinary field of study with some very unique ramifications.

These are some good points. The one about 'modern fencers beat hema practitioners' is along the same argument as icy mike's claim that 'an mma guy with a sword is more dangerous than a hema guy with a sword'... Having trained several people who practice mma, muay thai, boxing, judo, wrestling etc. this is not accurate. The person who has the most experience with the specific weapon and ruleset is more likely to win. As for the "what you're doing isn't historical' bit, well even the various masters from the same tradition record different techniques or describe them differently. It's a bit absurd to think that they would have recorded every variation of a movement, as well as every scenario where it would be useful. I look at the techniques from the historical manuals as examples of the underlying principles, the way that a math textbook will have sample problems and solutions to teach a method. I don't think any of the masters would look at some application of a technique that perfectly embodies the principles they teach and say "no, that's wrong". Oz also doesn't really provide a very useful solution to this perceived problem either, he made a video saying that to fix hema we should all practice wrestling. Wrestling is great, don't get me wrong, but I doubt it would achieve the goal of some kind of idealized 'universalized hema'. I can't think of any weapons based combat that has achieved what he's describing, not even kendo in Japan. And frankly, I'm not sure what kind of an advantage it would be. Currently I have had such an influx of new students that we are stretched for gear and space, and it takes time to properly integrate new people into the group.

Just to address the point about some HEMA practitioners invalidating the techniques of other martial artists for not being “historical” - nobody said you had to take these people seriously. There are charlatans in every martial art. Karate “McDojo’s”, Krav Maga cringe artists, BJJ guys who always pull guard and sit on their ass. It’s everywhere. Seems unfair to target HEMA for these kinds of kooks. Oh, and even Joachim Meyer would have scolded these fakers. He specifically says in one of his manuals that everything he teaches is foundational, and no practical technique (even those “invented” by individuals) should be disregarded. It’s a system, not a code of law.

I think the technique would be subject to change depending on your opponents size and style. Is this not the case?

Hi Robert, wonder if you have even done or considering doing one video about fencing against opponents taller than you. Being fast is certainly one possible way to do it, but you can't always be the faster one - the tall ones could be as fast with similar training and their will have more reach. Wonder if you have fenced with shorter opponents that you found to be so hard to deal with, what worked?

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I think a lot of it comes down to the reason people practice HEMA. My reason is because I want to learn how to use the sword, full stop. I have met others where their goal was to learn how the sword WAS used in history. Others still, though they seem to be a minority, want to learn and replicate how specific masters used the sword. I think it fundamentally comes down to the first words in the acronym: Historical. In my case, while I definitely draw from historical sources in my pursuit, it would be reasonable to say my style of fencing is not "historical", but is instead "modern". By taking techniques and strategies from both historical sources and modern fencers, my style no longer represents any particular style in _written_ history. Yet, I still tell people that I practice "Historical" European Martial Arts or HEMA. The main reason for this seems to be that HEMA, in the eyes of pop culture, is the opposite of Olympic Fencing. Where Olympic Fencing is the modern sport with clearly defined rules that divorce it from martial fencing, HEMA is supposedly the revival of traditional fencing and rediscovery of how swords should be used. Naturally, historians are going to be peeved at the people who claim to be historical, but apply modern techniques. If HEMA's image was really an issue, I'd suggest a rebranding to something like "Martial Fencing" or "Sword Martial Arts", but I also don't see any image issues with HEMA, so no change is really needed.

The "not being historical" argument as I see it hinges on what definition we are using: colloquial or academic? Let's say you are fencing Fiore and throw in a Zwerchhau when it suits your needs. If we are using colloquial definition of historical, then you are perfectly historical, there is a mountain of evidence for people being trained in both Italy and HRE of the time (exhibit one being Fiore himself), so someone knowing both styles is so likely it is almost inevitable, ergo you are fencing like someone in the period would've fenced. The academic definition of historical, however, is very strict, either it is written down or it isn't - and there is no trace of Zwerchhau by name or by execution in Fiore, therefore what you are doing is not historical. It may be appropriate to the period, but it is not historical, and if we take Fiore at his written word, it is not how he himself fenced. Thing is, I'm convinced that while you can do fairly well in tournaments if you fence strictly according to a particular manuscript, you will never be able to be the best. One part is what was said in the video, you have your own strengths and weaknesses, but the setting of tournament itself is biased to some approaches as opposed to others by virtue of psychology, equipment used and people you face. I mean, I like Destreza as much as the next guy, but even historical diestros decided to cut it out with their tall stances after the first major war they fought.

Idk if ppl disrespect HEMA, cuz absolutely nobody I talked to even knew HEMA existed until I introduced the concept of HEMA to them. It's just niche and relatively unknown to the mainstream

Funny enough we receive a lot of criticism from fringe living history activities like SCA. Which is funny because they are playing their own game with rattan bats or adopt less than optimal rules of engagement on the C&T ignoring most of the time the historical sources. On the other hand this organization loves to piggy back on the attention HEMA receive. On the other hand I have observe mostly here in Missouri and Kansas a casual approach to the historical sources or even a complete absence of it....individuals who are making money out of HEMA, but completely eschew the "H" on it. Which is a shame of itself but it is inevitable.

#1 - don't be Snobs #2 - HEMA = historical European martial arts NOT... FMBD Historical Manual Based Dueling If you're using realistic Historical European weapons or weapon similators and fighting in a defensive manner... its HEMA The first time I saw BUHURT I thought to myself that that was BS, I have come to realize that a lot of historical fighting probably looked more like that then the longsword duals that we typically do. Gang up on a guy, take him down and hold him for ransom or murder him. The large SCA battles are also probably more realistic combat then anything we do in any small club. There's a lot to be learned in a lot of those other groups. #3- Historical Manuel's were meant for people that already knew how to fight. Possibly having already been to war in mass formations and wanting to improve the individual dueling skills. The most important part of HEMA is fighting in a historical context. The manuals can aid that but they are not the centerpiece everything revolves around. #4 - Don't be snobs. Learn what you can from other medieval groups and teach them what you can.

The main thing I agree with when it comes to Oz's video is that HEMA has a general attitude about not interacting with other martial arts in a meaningful manner. We tend to, as a collective, write off other arts when presented to us. Or write off advice given to us by people who just don't fit the stereotypical HEMA frame. The MMA youtuber Armchair Violence gave his thoughts on HEMA, and what could be done to make it more popular. And most of the opinions from HEMA people were along the lines of "why should we care about someone's opinion who doesn't do the same sport?" Despite ArmchairViolence having a background in German Longsword. A few weeks ago Oz did an interview with champion MMA fighter and Catch Wrestler Josh Barnett. And Josh said that HEMA Grappling is horrible, but knows that if pressed, very few of them will take advice from a modern grappler to correct that problem. This in my view is the main reason other martial arts don't respect HEMA. We have great resources outside of the manuscripts to get better at what we do, but we tend to stick to our bubble.

The reason is simple. HEMA grapplers are easily defeated by newbs from BJJ & Catch as Catch Can. The sword fighters rarely if ever master any form of grappling in direct contradiction to the manuscripts which emphasized it as the necessary foundation for swordplay. And they can easily lose to a newb fencer. Until HEMA as a group prioritizes strength and conditioning training as a prerequisite and engages in BJJ, Sambo, CACC, and fencing competitions, it will be seen as little more than a novelty and larping.

I've no idea who u respond to, but his points are nonsense. When switching from epee to rapier i noticed all the disadvantages from the olympic fencing, starting with ... i was missing ONE HAND! Second, rapier handles very very different from all 3 olympic blades, and even if u get used to the rapier after few days, not all techniques from epee work with rapier, and those who do do not work in the same exact way. By the time an olympic fencer adjust his mindset and experience to the rapier he will be long dead in real life duel. Yes, if he practices a rapier for a while, he will become as good with it as he was with the epee eventually, but better? Based on what an olympic fencer will be better? Total nonsensical arguments. And why not being a scholar and a fighter at the same time? Take Matt Easton for example, he is both (UK) - you can find his channel here. Well, u made your points well. The guy who presented those arguments is just a loser :)