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This is such a rich and healthy discussion. Thank you for your work Coleman! And for allowing so many to see and hear these taboo subjects discussed. We cannot lose our ability to think and discuss issues.

Let's get back to the vibe Gen X had. We had racism on the ropes. We laughed at racist jokes about others and ourselves but regarded racist people as fools stuck in the horrible past we were lucky to be born after. In the 90's if you were against racism it just meant you were a regular person. The person making the hard-core racist jokes usually got the hint nobody was laughing with him and occasionally he got knocked out. We had tough conversations without worrying about pissing each other. Anthrax and Public Enemy onstage together is a good example. Too much togetherness isn't good for those at the top sticking it to us so Division became the game again. Politicians been playing that game since forever, Telecommunications Act in 96 made it much easier to control Info. Don't let the TV, tablet, phone, or Teacher make you hate your neighbor. Keep thinking and keep talking to one another, People! Chris Forever Young

Incredible panel, intelligent and nuanced conversation, I love it! You were all great, Kmele Foster is particularly impressive.

“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ” Bruce Lee

Kmele is always interesting - great exchange with David. Love Chloe. Great discussion Coleman. Thanks.

I really enjoyed the larger panel format for approaching this broad array of ideas and issues. I know Foster's work from The Fifth Column, was pleased to finally hear Valdary speak at length, and loved the balance of Bernstein's thoughts. I would love to see more of this format. It probably should hinge on the subject matter. For instance, Hughes' one-on-one BRILLIANT conversation with Benny Morris about Israel-Palestine would've been incoherent had there been additional panelists. Thank you for all of it Coleman...

What a great discussion, I relate to Kmele’s position as an individualist, free from the trappings of the tribe while still enjoying what the tribe offers, as well as what the other tribes have to offer. It free’s you from from groupthink & group guilt.

This was definitely a nice conversation to hear. Some helpful concepts. I sometimes forget that people who value rationality exist, so thank you!

I’m listening and at about the 15 min mark. The problem with saying that school boards, parents and communities just need to discuss and hash it out is that the current political environment allows no space for that, especially if you’re in a blue state. Parents expressing dissent to the elevated orthodoxy are dismissed as racists, transphobes, etc and are literally putting their jobs and livelihoods on the line.

Least insane conversation on these topics. Everyone here is doing great work. You are all great Americans and great people who are thinking rationally and deliberately and meticulously about these topics. You guys are moving the needle in the right direction towards rationality. Please don't give up. I support you!

At 1:40:42, Bernstein's comment, "...not able to argue with anyone in good faith these days..." is one that really struck a chord with me. Boy, that's so true. Everybody is so sensitive and ideologically embedded, that it's hard to have a reasoned and reasonable debate.

This is gold. I love the respect in, and the level of the conversation. Also the format, having 3 guest, is really great. I would love more of these.

My head hurts from all of you making me think so much. I love it.

Amazing conversation. Every person on this panel had their own probing questions and intriguing answers to contribute. More of this, for sure.

woah... a healthy conversation about race and culture between black and white people where both sides freely expressed their own ideas and thoughts without being thrown insults and name-calling... never thought i'd see this again lol jokes aside, props to everyone in this episode and thank you coleman for having these important discussions

The legislation is to stop the bleeding. This ideology came in under cover and most people were shocked when they actually realized what their kids were being taught. Coleman has the best take on this situation.

One of the panelists said (paraphrasing) "why can't we build a community where the school board and the parents get together to decide the curriculum?". News flash, that already exists, they're called school board meetings, and if you want to be honest the board meetings tend to be dumpster fires where no body budges until a few days later when it's entirely obvious that (usually) the school board was being unreasonable. But still, very little gets done. Look, I appreciate the concern that perhaps DeSantis is going overboard in FL when it comes to classroom policies, but as of now, it's ONLY DeSantis and Rufo and James Lindsay doing something. Nobody else is doing anything legislatively or politically with the same effect. Personally as well, I don't mind the overcorrection DeSantis is doing, as the woke don't need to be compromised with, they really need to be expunged from these positions.

I quit teaching in a classroom at the end of the 2021-22 school year. The amount of professional developments I had to attend in order to attain my teaching credential was mind numbing. I had to do an anti-racist reflection at the end of my first year. I had a specialist from the district come by and meet with me in order to provide support for any questions I might have teaching social studies. The woman explicitly told me, "We're working on getting the curriculum updated so that way minority students can see more of themselves in the books. We're trying to change the status quo." It felt weird, since I'm half black and half filipino, I felt as if they immediately assumed I was on board with what they were trying to do... All that being said, I share the same reservations you guys have about the way Florida is approaching this issue. As a teacher, I never had problems talking about these subjects with my students. I had a problem with how some of the adults within the educational institution, were so eager to graft their politics onto any historical event.

The problem with these discussions on race is that there are multiple cultures that label themselves using words from the racist lexicon. The prime example of this is the population which represents former slaves and their descendants. Though they all share a similar origin, there has grown to be many distinct cultures among them. Each of these cultures insist on being labeled "black". So now one word is doing A LOT of work. I think it was Coleman who was making a distinction between three men from three parts of the country, how their lived experiences, despite all being "black", were completely different. Those three men are absolutely, 100% from different cultures and we pretend they're not.

“De-racializing is not going to solve the problem” Chloe Valdary It might not fix the problem but hyper focusing on race and gender(which is what we are doing now) will definitely make the problem worse! How is it that some people can’t understand this? We have went backwards in the race and gender discussion in the past 4-5 years - many well-meaning people I know have pretty much given up on even trying to deal with it at this point. I don’t blame them at all

I definitely rank this as one of your top episodes. Thank you for the discussion.

As a conservative who teaches in a Christian school, not only does the curriculum (ABeka) teach on slavery, Jim Crowe and Civil Rights, but I love going a little more in depth in teaching the children how wrong and unbiblical those things were

This is amazing! Definitely need to make this panel a regular thing. So thoughtful and everyone seems to mesh well with one another!

This was great Coleman - keep doing these panel discussions! 👍

Very good panel and discussion. Yes, more of these, please.

As someone who was born and raised in CA, I had to comment on on one aspect that struck me as a bit absurd was one particular statement that dealt with the nature of DeSantis's act as being fascist due to the fact that our current system is 1) pluralistic 2) promotes critical thinking and 3) promotes open discussion on political topics, That since these are the three 'characteristics' of our education, the law promoted by DeSantis is 'fascist'. I grew up in California and went through the California school system, so perhaps its different in other states, I'll grant that to those who live in other states. I was apolitical (demawhat, repulicwho? levels of ignorance as my 13 year old me) but was politicized against the left by the left. After 9/11, had a basic US history teacher made arguments that we deserved the attack. As reprehensible as that may be its something you can argue for, but as a preteen this is shocking to say the least. I would ask a lot of questions to these statements to elaborate and or why did we deserve it (again I'm apolitical at this point in time), and the teacher would side step the questions since it moved the conversation from just them monologing to them having to explain in detail. I didn't have too many problems with the teacher outside of the fact that he didn't teach his core subject often, teacher was quite jovial and not intimidating whether they were teaching the material or not. What I found was that by simple asking questions, I generated tons a hate from the students, to where groups of students surrounding me and pushing me up against the wall followed by moral grandstanding and political statements. Having very little knowledge of politics, this prompted me to do a massive deep dive on political readings 10-20 hours a week, on forums, reading books, videos, etc. To the point that I knew more than most contractors and then they eventually left me alone. This was high school College was another level of crazy, mandatory GE class English 100 where the teacher spent 1.5 months of the class going over far left ideas that would even make most leftists turn their heads, whereas the actual English part just came with writing essays every 2 weeks on literature we barely talked about in class. I never proposed what I advocated, and thus would just counter what the teacher was pushing, so this was easy on me and hard on the teacher as he was the one being proactive with the subjects and assertions. I would very frequently get low grades on the essay, of which we were allowed to rewrite for a better grade. I would turn in the same essay's back in unmodified and magically get 2 letter improvements. Also after classes, students would come up to me in private and would say they agree with me on X, Y, and Z but where terrified to express that in class, despite the class being dominated by political monologue. In another scenario, I was in a biopsychology internship mainly dealing with measuring inhibition and crime (while this was done through with the school it was not a class and done in off hours). We ran no-go tests, tested mental processes, and compared criminal history of individuals that we included in our participation. One of my capstones was a thesis styled class, where I needed to pair with a professional (this was another teacher at the college) to write a graduating thesis on the subject, since my internship did that it worked out perfectly. The paper grading professor has zero knowledge on the subject, as I finished my graduating thesis, the capstone teacher wouldn't let it go through unless I added left wing jargon, when I brought this up to the actual internship lead teacher, I was just told that we just have to jump through these hoops. Since the grading professor wasn't actually knowable on the subject I was able to get away with not changing my paper and putting in a paragraph of pretty language that made them happy without changing the actual meat of the paper. These are just a couple examples, and doesn't even cover the physical threats I've received in person by complete strangers, but the general idea is that it is extremely exhausting, and requires a very stubborn individual to resist the aggression on multiple fronts. I also graduated in the early 10's, and doesn't even cover how far the pendulum has moved since that time, with the huge DIE push in the curriculum being so open now. So going back to my base statement " That since these are the three 'characteristics' of our education, the law promoted by DeSantis is 'fascist'." When I think of the brown shirts, I think of individuals smashing windows, marking individuals as bad, and cooping institutions to direct them into their very specific world view until it takes over the whole system. So when you have someone (DeSantis) who says in caveman terms, no political narrative cult driven classrooms in our public schools. I fail to see how that is fascist and how the current system's isn't closer to that. I can't imagine if Bismark put in top down legislation that stopped the promotion of brown shirt ideology that would be equally labeled as fascist. I understand that watching an institution leave one's wing of dominance is rough, so I don't expect DIE advocates to be happy. Also considering its an institution dominated by Leftist, all conservatives need to do is simply advocate for neutral or no narrative within the institution and it benefits them, so its not like they aren't playing politics either. The general idea on my line of thinking is, as someone who was definitely not within the DIE narrative, it does not promote 1) pluralistic 2) promotes critical thinking and 3) promotes open discussion on political topics. So while I am sympathetic to the idea of open discussion and the concerns brought up about limiting thought, there is zero effort to curtail the worst of your own side for 20+ years, to the point that I find DeSantis proposal attractive, as this is the only side willing to address the issue.

Thanks for sharing this conversation.

Love these conversations! Keep up the great work, brother! 👍🏼

Please elaborate more on how DeSantis is actually acting out the tenets of critical race theory by mandating that CRT will not be taught in Florida schools? I want to know more about why isn’t there any place at for theories to be dismantled based on their abilities to divide people?

Amazing show! I would absolutely love to see more of these round table conversations. This was an exceptional group of minds for a first go.

Absolutely awesome discussion all around. More of this type of discussion is needed everywhere. Thanks for all of you!

Minute 36: reminded me of Denzel Washington saying that once - it’s not color, it’s culture. This is so important.

We really need a better balance of liberal to conservative teachers.

You really outdid your self on this discussion…powerful, deep, rational, and dare I say, persuasive!

A conversation worth listening to. Much appreciated

Ruffo is not a fatalist a pessimist a racist or a fascist… rather he is a realist who rightly recognizes that the leftist long march through the institutions has succeeded and that the nation’s next generation is in grave danger of internalizing a world view that is fundamentally hostile to the American creed - (individuals not groups, character not color etc). He should be applauded for courageously rising to the moment and leveraging the assets he can muster to halt the corruption of the next generation and with it the nation state itself. Thank you Chris Ruffo! Coleman/panel, ask yourself how your preferred approach would work (community building/educational arbitration etc)… and then consider that the communitarian and considered world you pine for has already been lost. Wake up!

Absolutely wonderful! Loved this panel, and I look forward to more like this.

There is an issue in so far the critical theorists and their subsequent off shoots do not play by the same rules. The idea that you can “balance “ it by presenting opposing views doesn’t exist in the critical pedagogical view. I completely understand the idea, but this presumes that the opposition believes in that liberal principle. They don’t. I’m skeptical of Desantis’ track, but critical pedagogy fundamentally rejects the whole foundation of any liberal order which is being echoed by this panel. IMO this issue needs to be approached in the sense that this is a type of quasi religious/spiritual worldview. Paulo Friere is the Sauron that forged this ring, he was a spiritual guru, not an educator. I think the legislation may be ham fisted, but this shit has to stop. I think we can also improve our teaching of history by teaching about communism. Our education system has been thoroughly red washed.

Mahalo, Colemn! This was such a healthy, engaging conversation on topics that continue to divide us. A hopeful start.

Another excellent conversation! Please do more of these Coleman! Thanks for your good work!

Beautiful discussion!

Conversations like this give me hope for the future of humanity.

A substantive conversation. Thank you. I'd appreciate having a similar discussion with Rufo included. I listened to his interview with Jordan Peterson prior to listening to this conversation and I don't think Rufo has given up on democracy but rather is trying to break open the educational bureaucracy in order that actual civic debate will be renewed.

To Kmele Foster’s point about individuality, I have 10 kids born to me and the same woman who have raised them together. They have been raised in the same religious structure, family and as close to the same circumstances as a human can. There will be such a broad and varied outcome for all of my kids. Some will never marry. Some will have children and marry. Some will earn 5-10 times the income as another. Some will live long due to discipline of habit. Some will die young due to poor self care and concept. There is no way to get equality within a single family let alone a society. There is no way that the “culture” of our life will be able to explain the varied outcomes my children will have. Individuality is supreme, king, trumps all….

Kmele Foster has been articulating his points so well here. Extraordinary speaker.

This was great thanks Coleman!

That was a GOOD round table . Coleman , let us please hear more of that . Thank you !

Conversations like this may well be the cure to what ails us. It's comforting to know that both "wokeness" and its opposition are on a spectrum populated by reasonable, insightful people like these.

Already heard it as podcast from the RSS Feed - *really a great episode!*

Love these, please do more!

The pivotal factor that always gets left out of conversations about woke curriculum is the fact that teachers won’t teach things that we don’t believe in. If the teacher is woke, her class will be infused with critical praxis no matter what DeSantis does. If the teacher is not woke, they will gloss over anything woke in the official curriculum. Thanks for the great conversation!

I'm a new listener on this channel, and just have to say that this was a needed breath of fresh air. All 4 of you are fantastic conversationalists and debaters, and really epitomized the concept that you can't have productive dialogue without mutual respect. I love all of you right now and will definitely be listening to a lot more.

Excellent nuanced respectful discussion, kinda rare these days but very appreciated. You are doing great work Coleman.

Great idea to have a round table discussion! Love, love, love, listening to intelligent, nuanced discussions about important issues.

Smart bunch. I enjoyed the convo, thx

great conversation. love you all.

Great discussion. One thing that might come up more is calling people "white" and assuming there is anything in common culturally about being white. There is no such thing as White culture and if you are not racist it has not, until "wokeness" been an important aspect of who we are. There is no white music, food, mannerisms, etc. We identify more with our roots or regions: Italian American, Norwegian American, Southerner, New Yorker ----- the only thing that binds "white " people together is what they are not (not Black or not ethnically Asian) so unlike Black Americans there is nothing to give up if we are no longer known as White.

Wonderful conversation. Rich in thought and learning. Thank you.

Wonderful conversation, guys, watchin from Israel I fairely engoyed it. thank you! WE need to hear more of that kind of sensible and proper conversation.

I get you Kmele! I love your perspective.

This was awesome. Thank you.

Very helpful discussion. Thanks.

Kmele is a gem

Awesome discussion, thank you all.

Always a pleasure to see Kmele!

Thanks, Coleman. An impressive show and some of your input to the discussion is exceptional. For example, one's attachment to identity and the politics of identity.

It comes across like nobody has engaged with James Lindsay and his work.

Thanks Coleman I like every thing kind of video you do. I realize your interests are wide ranging like most of us.

Thanks for this Coleman! You’re audio is also improving although you & your speakers voices today had a somewhat tunnelish quality. I really appreciate your content!

This panel is fantastic. Cheers x 1000

I enjoy...do more please.

Coleman. I really respect and admire your approach to blocking ppl that annoy or outright attack content creators. That takes an exceptional amount of strength and love. Strength and love. Thx.

The feedback you asked for Coleman, The panel format was terrific. A real chance to tease out ideas and nuances that have been entirely missing. More of this please!!

These are exactly the type of people that should be designing the curriculum for our children. I'm 65 and the history I was taught was pure propaganda , but I don't think the solution is to teach more propaganda. If taught well I really think kids can handle the complexity of these subjects.

Fantastic discussion

Really good thoughts and articulations. So powerful to stretch our thoughts and understandings. Good to know yourself but always challenge your beliefs

Great discussion! FYI, you should put a gate on those microphones so that only the speaker's microphone is active when they're speaking. This should reduce the reverb we're hearing from having all of the mics being on at all times.

Daaaaaaamn was this a GOOD conversation. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

It’s important to make efforts to seek discussions with people of opposing viewpoints. To do this is in a democracy is to be a patriot. I am a conservative Republican (I actually like DeSantis, if that’s allowed here), I have regular intentional conversations with friends who are Democrats, there is some discomfort of course, but life is not about my comfort (or theirs). These conversations keep me seeing the humanity in the other (-even though they’re wrong😂).

Great conversation!

This was an awesome discussion thank you colman!!

This was a wonderful discussion and I loved hearing such different points of view than I've been exposed to. Loved the format of a round table with a number of people as well who are bouncing ideas and philosophies around. The one thing I would love to hear is how would this group form policy to deal with both extremes of the 'woke' policies being taught at schools K-12 and beyond, and the anti-woke extreme of the DeSantis policies. I always believe that in order to replace something that doesn't work or is extreme that it has to form from the bottom up but it seems that in the case of public education which is part of the state it is still from the top down. To which I think an intervention from the top state governing body is warranted but not in a reactionary way but in a very thoughtful way instead. Or maybe there are other ways. I would love to see this panel in particular join again and talk about specifics. I have a feeling that all of you would have some great ideas.

Thank you all very much. You each embodied the ideas you profess to hold dear. If only we all could speak with those with whom we disagree so respectfully, though of course in this group you each seemed to agree with most of one another's points. You made some truly valuable points between you, though now we are all so cynical that I am embarrassed to say so, which is not good. If only I were able to retain all of the points you all made for future "arguments." Thank you again.

Incredible and important conversation. If only this would be mandated by every school district.

Camille is someone I agree with greatly. If Race is a social construct the only solution is it’s abolition. That was the original liberal movement. Race blindness, MLK, and important values that were in the right direction but were detailed by the new ideology. I hope we can go back to a place where we focus on content of character.

You're really good at talking to groups of people. You're also really good at selecting people to talk to.

Terrific, insightful

Interesting and thoughtful conversation.

Great discussion! Wish I would of been in the room to bring an additional perspective as a father in Florida that did not initially support DeSantis and as a biracial man navigating this weird place called “race” in America

Would love to see Kmele Foster debate Michael Malice! But seriously, great format and knowledgeable guests, and perhaps most importantly exemplifying how civilised and rich conversations/debates can be carried out. Carry on the good work!

This is excellent

wow! It's difficult to imagine a better group.

We need these conversations to be had. I just hope that this comment section doesn’t get flooded with Anti-whiteness,Anti-blackness

This is the future of education that I vote for. If I had a teenager, I'd show them conversations like this and work to elaborate on them together. Im a bit with Kmele on democracy, but the choice to absorb and reflect on this type of information is my type of democracy!

This round table a good - suggest you do more.

Great discussion, was wonderful to listen to. My only gripe is a technical one: turn off auto-focus on the wide/group shot camera, but it's fine for the narrow/solo cameras.

God damn this was unbelievable

Wow!

Thank you for this very thoughtful conversation. There's another complication that gets wrapped into the discussion of how standardized curriculum should be. A significant percentage of parents frequently move kids from school to school and sometimes from district to district. Kids are constantly go from living with Dad's on one side of a district to Mom on another or aunt Charlotte's house somewhere else. Our district responds by making all of the schools teach the same thing at the same time in the same course across the district. That both causes and solves problems. As long as parents keep moving kids within the school year, there won't be any easy solution to this question.